EU Fines Apple $2 Billion for Anti-Competitive Behavior Toward Spotify

[vipergts2207]

No, it's more like allowing HP to advertise on/in their product packaging (found at Target and Walmart stores) that customers can buy ink at hp.com. This sort of thing already happens in the U.S.

I’m left wondering if some of these people have ever bought anything that wasn’t an Apple product in their lives. It’s not uncommon for companies to advertise other products and services within the packaging of their products. Shockingly (apparently anyway) these ads don’t often tell you to get them at the retailer you just bought the product from. Printers and ink is a great example.

Apple advertises Apple Music in their own iOS Music app.

 

[lotones]

Ridiculous... if Apple was so good at "steering" surely they would be better than the third or fourth music streamer in the EU. And whose pockets is this $2 billion going to end up in anyway? Surely not the artists music streamers have been ripping off since the beginning, and the artists are the ones who'd suffer the most from any alleged "steering".

Spotify built their business by barely paying artists more than the original Napster, and then they have the stones to complain about paying Apple's fees. I will never use Spotify, and will discourage all my friends from using it also.

This is how much more Apple Music pays artists than Spotify

 

[djphat2000]

Spotify wins as EU orders Apple to pay $2B and change App Store rules

Apple plans to appeal, insisting there’s no evidence of consumer harms.

arstechnica.com

I think that sums up nicely what's happening here. In my view, I think Apple is 100% in the right. And Spotify is completely wrong in its argument.

 

[djphat2000]

Spotify built their business by barely paying artists more than the original Napster, and then they have the stones to complain about paying Apple's fees. I will never use Spotify, and will discourage all my friends from using it also.

At least Spotify is consistent in not wanting to pay up.

 

[bcortens]

Not true. You can switch to Android simply by buying a new phone. You're now on Android. Done!

Now, if you want to have the same apps on Android as you had on your phone, you may need to buy them again. But that's true with the car, as well: If you upgraded the suspension, wheels, engine, exhaust, tires, stereo, etc., you'll need to repurchase those items for your new vehicle. Heck, you're not going to move your gas over to the new vehicle, either!

Most people don't buy aftermarket suspension, wheels, etc... the average person does however have many apps.

For the average person the cost of switching phone platforms involves more than just the cost of the phone, this isn't true for automobiles.

 

[AppliedMicro]

It would cost me thousands, perhaps tens of thousands, for me to switch to a different automobile manufacturer. Does that make Stellantis a monopolist? Or is your second point irrelevant?

Does Stellantis make you buy all your spare/replacement parts and fuel through them?

 

[Hails09]

This is fair.
My only argument against this would be how any other store works. You generally don't see competing prices within say Store A showing what Store B is charging for the same item. And vendors/developers offen don't show you (the customer) where their products are the cheapest. "You" generally have to go look. Sure they offer coupons or sales across various distribution they sell to. Even direct. But, if I walk into a 7-11 or a Target. I will not see the competing price of the other store for the same item.

There is a difference in your argument is you can’t actually shop anywhere else on iOS.

 

[Karma*Police]

It’s weird that’s some people here don’t see that Apple Music and Spotify are direct competitors and that Apple Music has an obvious advantage on an iPhone. The fact that spotify can’t even mention a price or a link should be enough. I’m an apple guy but that doesn’t mean i should nod my head at everything apple does.

Spotify knew Apple would be a direct competitor when they got into the business and accepted the Apple Store terms.

If Apple was so egregious in their attempts to curb competition, how are they still able to maintain a clear lead?

Also, they can always follow in Netflix’s footsteps and abandon the App Store subscription model altogether.

I’m all for competition but I hate it when a company that knew what it was getting itself into turns around and yells “unfair!” years later when they realize it’s easier to have the government intervene to boost margins than to do it via innovation.

 

[Hails09]

Ridiculous... if Apple was so good at "steering" surely they would be better than the third or fourth music streamer in the EU. And whose pockets is this $2 billion going to end up in anyway? Surely not the artists music streamers have been ripping off since the beginning, and the artists are the ones who'd suffer the most from any alleged "steering".

Spotify built their business by barely paying artists more than the original Napster, and then they have the stones to complain about paying Apple's fees. I will never use Spotify, and will discourage all my friends from using it also.

This is how much more Apple Music pays artists than Spotify

I would say Spotify has lost a customer but you where never one to begin with so I think they can manage without your subscription

 

[DaPhox]

Apple broke the rules in the EU & that’s the problem.

Which rules? Be specific.

 

[Hails09]

Spotify knew Apple would be a direct competitor when they got into the business and accepted the Apple Store terms.

If Apple was so egregious in their attempts to curb competition, how are they still able to maintain a clear lead?

Also, they can always follow in Netflix’s footsteps and abandon the App Store subscription model altogether.

I’m all for competition but I hate it when a company that knew what it was getting itself into turns around and yells “unfair!” years later when they realize it’s easier to have the government intervene to boost margins than to do it via innovation.

You obviously don’t understand what has went on
Spotify had no issues with Apple until Apple launched Apple Music & that’s when the problems began

 

[Hails09]

Which rules? Be specific.

Anti steering

 

[Bokito]

They sure do, my friend:
"Fines imposed on undertakings found in breach of EU antitrust rules are paid into the general EU budget. This money is not earmarked for particular expenses, but Member States' contributions to the EU budget for the following year are reduced accordingly. The fines therefore help to finance the EU and reduce the burden for taxpayers."

Fines

Fines

competition-policy.ec.europa.eu

This is complete ********. The European Commission has been asking for a higher budget for years. As the (often right-wing) anti-EU sentiment grows in several countries it’s harder for them to increase their budget. Fines are an alternative way to up the budget. There is not a single Euro a national government paid less because of fines (in recent years). They only want more money from member states, not less.

 

[xander49x]

#boycotSpotify

 

[jimothyGator]

Does Stellantis make you buy all your spare/replacement parts and fuel through them?

No, and Apple doesn't make you buy your music subscription service—which is what this suit is about—from them, either. Apple does not, and never did, make you subscribe to Spotify through them.

To continue this analogy, this is like a tire manufacturer getting the advantages of having their tires on display at the dealer, and demanding informing customers can buy the tires for cheaper directly from the manufacturer.

(To really stretch the analogy, the tire manufacturer than lobbies the home government to sue the dealer, and that government says, thanks dealer, we'll take this money and put it our treasury. Now, let me ask you again, you ready to do some special favors for our friendly tire manufacturer?)

 

[bcortens]

No, and Apple doesn't make you buy your music subscription service—which is what this suit is about—from them, either. Apple does not, and never did, make you subscribe to Spotify through them.

To continue this analogy, this is like a tire manufacturer getting the advantages of having their tires on display at the dealer, and demanding informing customers can buy the tires for cheaper directly from the manufacturer.

(To really stretch the analogy, the tire manufacturer than lobbies the home government to sue the dealer, and that government says, thanks dealer, we'll take this money and put it our treasury. Now, let me ask you again, you ready to do some special favors for our friendly tire manufacturer?)

People keep trying to make the analogy of offering a competing product in the same store... but this isn't the same store. Apple doesn't own the screens within a third party app and any advertising that happens within the third party app is not something Apple should be in the business of controlling.

As I have pointed out elsewhere, the rules that prevent companies from putting links to sign up in their apps were always nonsense because Apple doesn't make any money from most of the companies that would benefit anyway.

 

[philstubbington]

What a fantastically stupid idea. That'll be a fun one to explain to the Board & shareholders.:

Tim, why did Apple just abandon $94 billion dollars in revenue?

Tim: Uhhhhh.......

Well, it’s only 448 million people….. 😂

 

[webkit]

I’m left wondering if some of these people have ever bought anything that wasn’t an Apple product in their lives. It’s not uncommon for companies to advertise other products and services within the packaging of their products. Shockingly (apparently anyway) these ads don’t often tell you to get them at the retailer you just bought the product from. Printers and ink is a great example.

Apple advertises Apple Music in their own iOS Music app.

It’s probably a few things or a mix of things including people reacting without knowing or caring what the issue might be because they feel anything against Apple is wrong, people feeling that a company (including a large/dominant one) should essentially be able to do whatever it wants, people feeling that governments are evil, etc.

 

[BaldiMac]

I’m left wondering if some of these people have ever bought anything that wasn’t an Apple product in their lives. It’s not uncommon for companies to advertise other products and services within the packaging of their products. Printers and ink is a great example.

What's your point? It's also not uncommon to limit outside payments in vendors' property use agreements. (To turn your phrase, I'm left wondering if some people are aware of business outside of Apple.)

To be clear, I agree in principle with the EU eliminating anti steering agreements. I do disagree with their implementation because of a lack of due process, timeliness, or evidence of harm. (As well as the strange trend of certain rules that target Apple to the benefit of market leaders.)

It certainly seems like nothing more than a shakedown when Apple has already announced changes as required by the DMA.

 

[webkit]

Spotify knew Apple would be a direct competitor when they got into the business and accepted the Apple Store terms.

If Apple was so egregious in their attempts to curb competition, how are they still able to maintain a clear lead?

Also, they can always follow in Netflix’s footsteps and abandon the App Store subscription model altogether.

I’m all for competition but I hate it when a company that knew what it was getting itself into turns around and yells “unfair!” years later when they realize it’s easier to have the government intervene to boost margins than to do it via innovation.

Spotify was available in the App Store in 2008. While iTunes launched in 2001, the Apple Music streaming service didn't come around until 2015.

Anyway, here is Spotify's view of events:

Timeline - Time to Play Fair

www.timetoplayfair.com

 

[BaldiMac]

Most people don't buy aftermarket suspension, wheels, etc... the average person does however have many apps.

For the average person the cost of switching phone platforms involves more than just the cost of the phone, this isn't true for automobiles.

Sure, but I'd imagine that cost is negligible for the "average person". I've got 150 or so apps, and between free to play and subscriptions, I doubt I'd need to pay $20 on apps to move to Android. I'd save more than that on the phone. Data transfer would take a few hours.

 

[turbineseaplane]

It's quite telling that the EU is protecting Spotify (EU company), which has a monopoly on music streaming.

Yeah - the USA never does that for any of its companies!
Never!

 

[visualseed]

🤣🤣🤣🤣

Here comes the “PULL OUT OF THE EU, THAT’LL SHOW EM” crowd.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, Tim and Apple are late 90s Microsoft

So, in 25 years we can expect Apple to be worth $64 Trillion while only suffering short-term superficial repercussions? I guess I should buy some more stock.

 

[Karma*Police]

You obviously don’t understand what has went on
Spotify had no issues with Apple until Apple launched Apple Music & that’s when the problems began

I understand completely. Everyone and their mother knew streaming was the future… except Eddy Cue.

 

[rellimie]

Soooo…..are we still all defending Apple in this monopoly stuff?

I am. Mainly because no one is forcing anyone to use Apple. You can go Android if you like.