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EU Fines Apple $2 Billion for Anti-Competitive Behavior Toward Spotify
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This screams insecurity.
It’s there but it seems like the button is missing within the app itself based on my googling of how to subscribe in app. Makes me think it’s my MS account.
Well if Spotify arent going to use Apple payment because of the commission you are still going to have to pay for your sub outside the app...
Whether it is a pop up, an info box or the existing Developer webpage. All the same. You are paying externally. Just like you are now.
If you cant understand how to use a phone and install an app and pay for it, maybe the phone needs to go back in the box and the person who bought it should return it. We surely in 2024 can assume some level of experience/skill that users have. Surely?
It would be an interesting experiment.
Wonder how all those who bought and rely on iPhones would react to the EU government?
Protests are already quite frequent.
Plenty of EU users and devs come on here and are quite happy they boughtt a walled garden device and pay 15-30% commission for apps they created.
Wouldnt it be funny if Spotify getting their way caused users to rethink Spotify's behaviour and ditched their paid subs?
Think most Europeans would be happy that their government is protecting them as consumers, and then buy an Android. As opposed to protecting greedy corporations like Apple from making more money.
The EU is talking about non-monetary harm which cannot be quantified. That is why the base fine is only 40 million euros. The deterrence fine is 1.8 billion based on Apple's WW revenue.Well not all reports are saying Apple have to pay while appealing...
And when you look at the words of the finding:
‘Higher prices’
“Apple's conduct, which lasted for almost ten years, may have led many iOS users to pay significantly higher prices for music-streaming subscriptions because of the high commission fee imposed by Apple on developers and passed on to consumers in the form of higher subscription prices for the same service on the Apple App Store,” the commission stated.
It added that Apple's provisions led to “a degraded user experience”, as iOS users either had to engage in a cumbersome search before they found their way to relevant offers outside the app, or never subscribed to any service because they did not find the right one on their own."
Spotify app hasnt taken payments in app for ages so it can hardly be charging more.
As for "CUMBERSOME SEARCH" ... geez that makes EU app users look very simple. Cant find a website?
The number of users of Spotify would indicate that millions of users arent finding it too cumbersome...
Perhaps Spotify should look at the number of free accounts they have rather than paid ones. Turn them into paid consumers rather than ad supported and Spotify might make a real profit for once.
Says who? They (Apple) are a business, and businesses are generally allowed to set their prices at a market rate — meaning what the market will bear. Why are they not allowed to make a profit of their choosing and design for their app store costs and services? Amazon, Microsoft, Google, every other company on earth charges for access to their web servers and processes.
Microsoft was not found to have a monopoly on operating systems. The ruling was that they had a monopoly on web browsers for Windows.
This was still ridiculous, because other web browsers were readily available for Windows. Very few people, including the DOJ, seem to know or care what “monopoly” means.
Just to be the voice of ‘what if’ and ‘why not’ — I think that’s a danger for all of the Western nations. Not in 10 years, I figure we have at least 30…
The deterrence fine is a made up number they thought they would sting them with.
Why worldwide revenue? Why does the EU get to be the policemen for the world and issue a fine that goes to the EU?
If Apple do let Spotify put up a banner or popup does the 1.8B go away as the deterrence "worked"?
The EUs previous extortion attempts didnt pan out so well against Apple on tax.
If I was Apple, I'd whack in that popup and make Apple Music free for a year as a thank you for buying an Apple product. No doubt Spotify would think that was anticompetitive so more creative would be for Apple to create an ad sponsored version of Apple music for free (but forgot to actually include any ads apart from a brief "you're listening this on an Apple iOS device, consider upgrading to a paid subscription".
Well given iOS devices are getting a net 11-15% of Android switchers a year, I would think that contradicts your words.
Or you speak "for most Europeans"?
This ruling is not protecting consumers or getting better deals. The money goes to the EU not even Spotify.
All corporations are sociopaths. The people who lead corporations (in particular at the global level)…are also usually socio- or psychopaths. I know these terms have been deprecated, and now are grouped as anti-social disorders, which sounds so much more innocuous. I prefer the old terms. People generally understand what they mean.
This is one of the primary problems with our world—it is run by sociopaths and psychopaths who have no interest in the common good. And also why our civilization is unlikely to survive another 200 years. Not as democracies, anyway.
haha, and who's gonna pay the fine, me, the shareholder or you, the apple user?
I'm a big supporter of the DMA's aims, but I don't think either one of these is true.
Places like MacRumors are the absolute worst bellwether for how the general public feels about regulation of digital markets. My gut feeling is that people don't care either way.
Critics of the DMA, I believe, are right to argue that the public isn't really asking for any of this. Go to any high street and I doubt, when asked, people would say they're dying to have alternative app stores, message interoperability or the NFC module opened up.
Whether they will like the effects of the DMA, however, remains to be seen and will depend on how well industry can capitalise on the DMA and how effective the EU will be in ensuring compliance.
Does any of that mean people would storm the EU's offices in protest to support Apple? I highly doubt it because, contrary to what we read on MR, most people don't actually buy their iPhone because it's a walled garden. They buy it because it's pretty, because it works well or it's what their friends and family have. So unless the DMA actually degrades people user experience, which I doubt, I can't see people having strong views against many of the things the DMA mandates.
In all likelihood people would just be angry with Apple and the EU, possibly even in that order. Android is pretty strong across the EU, so if Apple really made the experience much worse or actually pulled out of the market there'd be a vocal minority and just many people who bought Android phones instead -- however begrudgingly.
I think Apple knows that this is a lose lose argument, which is why they are complying, even if maliciously and with the attitude of a petulant teenager.
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Are you American by any chance? Because it would explain your comment. If not, I am perplexed
Yes. The deterrence fine should be large enough that it would deter Apple and others from doing similar acts.The deterrence fine is a made up number they thought they would sting them with.
Why worldwide revenue? Why does the EU get to be the policemen for the world and issue a fine that goes to the EU?
If Apple do let Spotify put up a banner or popup does the 1.8B go away as the deterrence "worked"?
The EUs previous extortion attempts didnt pan out so well against Apple on tax.
If I was Apple, I'd whack in that popup and make Apple Music free for a year as a thank you for buying an Apple product. No doubt Spotify would think that was anticompetitive so more creative would be for Apple to create an ad sponsored version of Apple music for free (but forgot to actually include any ads apart from a brief "you're listening this on an Apple iOS device, consider upgrading to a paid subscription".
They are going for WW revenue because they know Apple will use some accounting shenanigans and say they have zero revenue in the EU.
Will Apple be given back the money once they comply? No. It is a punishment. They have to pay the fine and comply.
I am assuming you were referring to the Irish tax thing. It will be decided this year.
Apple suffers setback in fight against EU order to pay £11bn tax bill in Ireland
Top adviser to European court of justice says ruling three years ago in tech giant’s favour should be set aside
The EU has no problem with Apple charging whatever they want from Spotify. Their beef is that it is not allowing its customers (like you and me) that it is cheaper to get Spotify from their website rather than from IAP because of Apple tax, which Apple Music does not have to pay.
I didn't say Apple or Music were monopolies. In fact, I totally agree with you. Apple isn't a monopoly, as isn't Music. My comment was re the "BMW doesn't sell Volvos" quote.
Europeans do like a protest alright
- Denial of human rights - protest
- Austerity budgets causing hardship - protest
- Pension rights - protest
- Availability of health care - protest
- Can't buy this particular expensive item but can easily get alternatives that are pretty much as good, if not better in some ways - yeah, I don't think so.
It’s hilarious that you think that people will take to the streets over this. It’s not war or famine or abuse. Get with reality!
I would say they would react way worse towards Apple, a company doesn't want to follow local laws and rules regarding competition.
If you check r/europe on Reddit there was a thread about this 2billion dollars fine, a lot of users said the fine is too small for a company like Apple and most agreed with the fine.
So make no mistake, if Apple would leave the EU market most of the anger from EU users would be directed towards Apple.
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"a lot of users" on another tech bashing subgroup?
Seriously, as someone else said, the masses dont know or care what DMA is. Or steering.
Nor want an alt app store.
The comments on here are never representative of society.
Most people wouldnt even understand what the EU is fining Apple for.
It was on all the news casts here today. Even my partner went "what's that about?" so I explained and that was it. no questions, no comments.
Spotify can crow as loudly as they want. But remember most of their complaints had already been dismissed or watered down. The EU couldnt even call Apple a monopoly
You might all think the public wont protest.
Maybe, maybe not. They dont understand what this is about but when a product 50% of them buy by choice gets pulled from shelves are they going to blame Apple or the EU? I can choose what I want to buy now, the rest of the world can too. What if EU citizens suddenly couldnt?
Perhaps Apple should just quickly ramp up the number of UK stores for all the abroad users who might drop in
A couple of pointsYou might all think the public wont protest.
Maybe, maybe not. They dont understand what this is about but when a product 50% of them buy by choice gets pulled from shelves are they going to blame Apple or the EU? I can choose what I want to buy now, the rest of the world can too. What if EU citizens suddenly couldnt?
Perhaps Apple should just quickly ramp up the number of UK stores for all the abroad users who might drop in
- You are seriously overestimating how much people care. Yes some will be upset if Apple pulled out of Europe, but most people buy their phones in plans. If Apple pulls out of the EU, then carriers will stop carrying iPhones immediately because of support issues. If iPhones are not available, people will just select something else when they need to update.
- iOS represents about 33% of the installed base in Europe at the moment. If they withdrew, that would fall gradually to in the region of 5-10% within 4 years as phones come up for replacement. iOS would become irrelevant in Europe in a fairly short time.
- Only die-hard fans would travel to the UK to get an iPhone. It's an island, and it will cost to get there. Very few people would go to the trouble and pay extra for a phone with no realistic warranty support. Sure there would be some people, but there won't be boatloads of iOS "refugees".
- Apple would be in a position of having to continue to support phones already sold, and maintain the App Store long after it exits the market. This would be a huge negative on the bottom line for them, but failing to honour warranty, or shutting down the App Store (the only way to avoid the DMA) would leave their reputation in tatters, and hasten their demise in Europe.