Everything Announced at Today's Apple Event

[richard13]

I have had a couple iterations of iPad over the years, and I agree. iPads are too limited to replace a computer, and too big to be portable instead of a phone. I have found iPhone and MBP to be the best combo year after year, especially as iPhones have gotten bigger.

Even with this recent refresh, Apple seems to focus iPad marketing on artists who want a digitized canvas, and not much else.

I went to Blizzcon a few years ago and Foo Fighters were the band that played. At one point, a member of the audience gave Dave Grohl her iPad to take a picture of her in the crowd. Dave, very comically said to her "you know, they make smaller versions of this".

 

[gagaliya]

The thing is, barely no one buys an iPad AND a Macbook anyway. Meaning the cannibalization is small.

I think macOS or some variety of it is coming to the M-lines of iPads this WWDC. This is also the reason for the rumor about "touch-enabled macOS testing". They were never gonna release a laptop with touch-screen. The iPad Pro is where it's at.

This is also the reason they won't release a new 12 inch macbook. The iPad Pro will do the honors for that form factor.

Cannibalization is small because iPad cant run mac os today. If for example they allowed iPad to run mac os once you connect the keyboard thing, no-one will buy the laptop. All you need then is the 11 or 13 inch iPad pro, use it normally as an iPad on the go with the touch screen, then switch to mac os once docked with the keyboard and optionally connect it to another big monitor so you have mac os on big monitor and iPad as dual screen.

it is such an elegant solution and very easy for apple to do given the advancement in the m chip, the *ONLY* reason they not doing it is once that happens, the bulk of the buyers will not buy the laptop anymore. Only those who needs m max performance will still buy a laptop.

Tim is way too much of a coward to make those bold decisions for better user experience and more worried about the bean counters. If Tim was running apple back then, he would probably be worried iPhone will cannibalize the iPod and never allowed the iPhone to be able to play music....

Edit: i will eat my words and everything i said about Tim Cook if they introduce the mac os on iPad this WWDC.

 

[darngooddesign]

Cannibalization is small because iPad cant run mac os today. If for example they allowed iPad to run mac os once you connect the keyboard thing, no-one will buy the laptop. All you need then is the 11 or 13 inch iPad pro, use it normally as an iPad on the go with the touch screen, then switch to mac os once docked with the keyboard and optionally connect it to another big monitor so you have mac os on big monitor and iPad as dual screen.

it is such an elegant solution and very easy for apple to do given the advancement in the m chip, the *ONLY* reason they not doing it is once that happens, the bulk of the buyers will not buy the laptop anymore. Only those who needs m max performance will still buy a laptop.

Only running MacOS when docked is not an elegant solution; it’s a clunky hardware restriction with a sub-par experience. Elegance involves in being able to easily switch between the OSes, probably with both accessing the same documents location so you dont have duplicate files from apps that run in both OSes, and that involves structural changes to both OSes and making MacOS touch friendly. It could work the way VisionOS works with MacOS being a single window. So people would still buy MacBooks with they want to run MacOS on two displays.

Apple could make 16GB RAM a requirement for running both OSes; a 1TB 13” iPad with a Magic Keyboard isnt far from the price of a base MacBook Air and an iPad so not a lot of financial canibalization. People aren’t going to do a lot of complex work on an 11” screen so the 13” MacBook Air woudl still be compelling to people who dont want a large tablet.

Think about it this way, the 11” MacBook Air and 12” MacBook didn’t put a big dent is the larger MacBook sales because for a lot of Mac work, larger screens are nicer.

PS. If Tim Cook were as fearful of mere cannibalization as you suggest, the 15” MacBook Air and 13” iPad Air wouldn’t exist.

 

[gagaliya]

Only running MacOS when docked is not an elegant solution; it’s a clunky hardware restriction with a sub-par experience. Elegance involves in being able to easily switch between the OSes, probably with both accessing the same documents location so you dont have duplicate files from apps that run in both OSes, and that involves structural changes to both OSes and making MacOS touch friendly. It could work the way VisionOS works with MacOS being a single window. So people would still buy MacBooks with they want to run MacOS on two displays.

Apple could make 16GB RAM a requirement for running both OSes; a 1TB 13” iPad with a Magic Keyboard isnt far from the price of a base MacBook Air and an iPad so not a lot of financial canibalization. People aren’t going to do a lot of complex work on an 11” screen so the 13” MacBook Air woudl still be compelling to people who dont want a large tablet.

Think about it this way, the 11” MacBook Air and 12” MacBook didn’t put a big dent is the larger MacBook sales because for a lot of Mac work, larger screens are nicer.

PS. If Tim Cook were as fearful of mere cannibalization as you suggest, the 15” MacBook Air and 13” iPad Air wouldn’t exist.

sharing photos and files between Mac OS and iPad OS on the same iPad is a given, I didnt realize that needs to be mentioned for you to comprehend, it’s something apple can do very easily. While a deeper integration will be nice to support touch based input on Mac OS and switch between 2 os on the fly. I will settle for able to use iPad with existing mac os on the keyboard addon. It is still infinitely better user experience than have two separate devices around, and the fact today this m4 hardware is completely wasted locked to iPad os.

Your statement on cannibalization also makes no sense, those are just 2 laptop models with different size screens. IPad is a different category, only reason apple don’t put mac os on it is fear of making their own regular m chip laptop (which makes up bulk of the laptop sales) obsolete. So instead they continue to force user to have both devices and completely waste the hardware on the new iPad.

 

[Seanjacobs]

Love the announcements and all, but what I do not get is a few things:

• Why did Tim sound so dull and boring; Steve used to get us excited and add some magic to the announcements; also why are they still being recorded??? It's so dry, boring, and unenthusiastic without a room full of people getting excited. Just sad to see these anymore and hear Tim sound robotic.
• Why is it still called iPad AIR when it's heavier than the Pro? The term "Air" signifies lighter, thinner, and well...like Air...

 

[darngooddesign]

sharing photos and files between Mac OS and iPad OS on the same iPad is a given, I didnt realize that needs to be mentioned for you to comprehend, it’s something apple can do very easily.

I dont want two Lightroom libraries for example. So no, it’s not a simple task to to make sure every app uses the same file location which isnt currently shared by the sandboxed OSes. But if all you are doing sharing photos and a couple of files then I get why you think it is simple.

While a deeper integration will be nice to support touch based input on Mac OS and switch between 2 os on the fly. I will settle for able to use iPad with existing mac os on the keyboard addon.

I wouldnt settle, but that’s largely irrelevant since Apple will decide how it will be done.

It is still infinitely better user experience than have two separate devices around, and the fact today this m4 hardware is completely wasted locked to iPad os.

I dont want a just good enough experience just because your user experience demands are “whatever”.

Your statement on cannibalization also makes no sense, those are just 2 laptop models with different size screens. IPad is a different category, only reason apple don’t put mac os on it is fear of making their own regular m chip laptop (which makes up bulk of the laptop sales) obsolete. So instead they continue to force user to have both devices and completely waste the hardware on the new iPad.

The 15” Air canibalizes the larger MBPs for regular people who just want a larger screen so if TC is so adverse to it why does it exist?

 

[Nuno Lopes]

The iPad is used heavily in aviation. Every pilot I know has one... more than 100 people.

Ok.

 

[Darth Tulhu]

bro still can't afford $10 usd for PCalc 🤣

 

[HBsteveo]

Are you saying only pros will want the ipad pro?

I am says the marketing seemed like it was towards artists and musicians for high end work. It brought nothing new that was a wow factor for me. I can get more out of my Mac Pro laptop for the same cost. They would have had me if they put oled on the air. I really was looking forward to this event and it was just disappointing

 

[Makisupa Policeman]

For the cost of a fully loaded iPP you could get an extremely well spec’d 14” MBP M2/M3 Max that would be far more capable than any M4 iPP which can’t even take full advantage of its new chip. 😐

 

[jo-1]

For the cost of a fully loaded iPP you could get an extremely well spec’d 14” MBP M2/M3 Max that would be far more capable than any M4 iPP which can’t even take full advantage of its new chip. 😐

I bought a maxed out MBP with 8 TB in 2021 and a maxed out iPP now - what am I missing?

Nobody limits you in getting what serves your needs best. Just do your due diligence and make a decision where to put your money best.

The M4 is about efficiency and not about sheer power. In case you watched the presentation you should focus on the efficiency part. The M4 can do the same workload as the M2 with half the electrical power! In a battery driven device efficiency is more important than anything else.

 

[wbeasley]

The thing is, barely no one buys an iPad AND a Macbook anyway. Meaning the cannibalization is small.

I think macOS or some variety of it is coming to the M-lines of iPads this WWDC. This is also the reason for the rumor about "touch-enabled macOS testing". They were never gonna release a laptop with touch-screen. The iPad Pro is where it's at.

This is also the reason they won't release a new 12 inch macbook. The iPad Pro will do the honors for that form factor.

Barely no one?

I have too many iPads and MacBooks…

I doubt I’m that unique.
They serve different purposes.

iPad mini for travel and casual use.
iPad Pro 11 for regular use.
iPad 12.9 is great for magazines (it’s original gen so dated now).
MacBook Air 11 is 11 years old but good one travel or ripping CDs.
MacBook Pro (old) nicer to take on holidays with better sound.
MacBook Air M2 great for upscaling AI DVDs etc.

iMac (old) daily use. screen starting to suffer edge coloration so will fail one day and a new iMac will turn up.

iPods and iPhones either end up as gifts to friends or in “collection”

 

[wbeasley]

I have had a couple iterations of iPad over the years, and I agree. iPads are too limited to replace a computer, and too big to be portable instead of a phone. I have found iPhone and MBP to be the best combo year after year, especially as iPhones have gotten bigger.

Even with this recent refresh, Apple seems to focus iPad marketing on artists who want a digitized canvas, and not much else.

You need an iPad min

It fits the gap purpose perfectly.
Just needs some spec update love now.

 

[wbeasley]

Cannibalization is small because iPad cant run mac os today. If for example they allowed iPad to run mac os once you connect the keyboard thing, no-one will buy the laptop. All you need then is the 11 or 13 inch iPad pro, use it normally as an iPad on the go with the touch screen, then switch to mac os once docked with the keyboard and optionally connect it to another big monitor so you have mac os on big monitor and iPad as dual screen.

it is such an elegant solution and very easy for apple to do given the advancement in the m chip, the *ONLY* reason they not doing it is once that happens, the bulk of the buyers will not buy the laptop anymore. Only those who needs m max performance will still buy a laptop.

Tim is way too much of a coward to make those bold decisions for better user experience and more worried about the bean counters. If Tim was running apple back then, he would probably be worried iPhone will cannibalize the iPod and never allowed the iPhone to be able to play music....

Edit: i will eat my words and everything i said about Tim Cook if they introduce the mac os on iPad this WWDC.

What if they allowed MacOS Lite that let only App Store apps?

But then the EU would jump all over them as “gatekeepers”. Hahaha.

Maybe iPad Pro is more expensive so it will not cannabolize laptops sales. It’s priced more than a cheap MacBook Air. So it could be a hybrid device yet not sacrifice other sales except for the few who buy both always. One expensive dual purpose device could make it indispensable with the same overall margins as two lesser devices.

 

[wbeasley]

I am says the marketing seemed like it was towards artists and musicians for high end work. It brought nothing new that was a wow factor for me. I can get more out of my Mac Pro laptop for the same cost. They would have had me if they put oled on the air. I really was looking forward to this event and it was just disappointing

You can’t put OLED on Air at this stage or price would go up and product differentiation would evaporate. Price points and features exist for a reason. There is just enough between each device to make you evaluate what you really need and want and are willing to pay for.

I’m sure we would all love an IPad Pro at an iPad price

Features trickle down over time though so maybe two or three years you will get what you want (maybe when iPad Pros move to foldable screens as their selling point?)

 

[wbeasley]

I dont want two Lightroom libraries for example. So no, it’s not a simple task to to make sure every app uses the same file location which isnt currently shared by the sandboxed OSes. But if all you are doing sharing photos and a couple of files then I get why you think it is simple.

I wouldnt settle, but that’s largely irrelevant since Apple will decide how it will be done.

I dont want a just good enough experience just because your user experience demands are “whatever”.

The 15” Air canibalizes the larger MBPs for regular people who just want a larger screen so if TC is so adverse to it why does it exist?

15” Air probably steals away a few 14” MacBook Pro sales.
16” is a huge jump up in price and overkill in some ways for regular users.

 

[tomchr9]

The astroturfing is strong on this forum...

 

[DJTaurus]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1788505387626295386

https://twitter.com/x/status/1788503150271340944

 

[theluggage]

The thing is, barely no one buys an iPad AND a Macbook anyway. Meaning the cannibalization is small.

Everybody I know with an iPad also has a laptop or desktop computer and a smartphone. But the important point there is iPad not New $1300+ iPad Pro with Magic Keyboard. The "traditional" iPad had a clear niche between phone and laptop - that's why cannibalisation is small.

However, in the last couple of years, thanks to the M-series chips, Apple have pushed the iPad Pro to MacBook Pro levels of power, larger screens - and price - which makes it harder to justify an iPad Pro and a low/mid-range MacBook, and makes it more desirable to run full MacOS and/or have a half decent keyboard. There are a handful of applications where touch or Pencil input really offers something different, but many things just work best with a keyboard and pointer. One problem with the iPad is that full MacOS Apps aren't going to be much use without a keyboard and pointer, while attaching a keyboard kinda ruins it as a tablet for handheld work or using the Pencil.

I wonder if Apple are going down the wrong road by making the "iPad Pro" effectively still a tablet with an optional (and pricey) "keyboard case" - most other manufacturers offer a "2 in 1" convertible touchscreen laptop for that market, with some neat mechanism for flipping the screen into laptop, tablet or "easel" mode. Apple could make a really powerful convertible using M-series chips and a bit of ingenuity in how the screen was attached.

I dont want two Lightroom libraries for example. So no, it’s not a simple task to to make sure every app uses the same file location which isnt currently shared by the sandboxed OSes.

I don't think the solution would be to have some sort of dual-boot or sandboxed operating systems - MacOS can already run iPadOS and iOS Apps, the main restriction being that some mobile Apps just don't make sense without a touch screen or mobile device features like accelerometers or GPS - all of which, presumably, could be added to MacOS-on-iPad. Once you have a version of MacOS with proper iPad support, then iPadOS itself can go away on what would be turning in to the "Mac Convertible".

Of course, none of these things are a 5 minute hack, especially where they require action from 3rd party developers.

Currently, many don't allow their iPad apps to run on MacOS - whether that's to avoid cannibalising their native MacOS versions, because the UIs don't work well with keyboard-and-pointer, because they use mobile hardware features or - quite reasonably - because they don't want the extra chore of testing and supporting everything on a range of Macs on top of the menagerie of mobile devices they have to support.

 

[Nuno Lopes]

I believe that the vast majority of people that owns an iPad also owns a laptop or desktop.

The few that have decided to use it as the default device for everything productivity have drop it and came back to use a laptop and use the iPad for very specific things. There is always some that never done it that will venture … but those will also drop the idea. Even if takes them a year or two.

I’m one of those that have tried it but after the initial fun the experience was just not good for such purpose. Then I used it for very specific productivity things with the pencil for a year or so but could not be bothered to deal with the entropy of using two devices for very small gain.

For me when Apple introduced the Ms to MacBooks, it simply blew the iPad potential for real productivity out of the water. Gladly, it exposed how cumbersome iPad OS and the ecosystem to get things done with minimal friction compared to macOS. The problem is not the format (tablet), but the OS and Apple approach to the future productivity ecosystem.

I think is now clear that is quite a productivity inefficient ecossystem in comparison. Yes, it has some interesting things, driven by touch or pen but that is all. Why can’t these also on macOS considering the other way around is possible? Apple in this commercial is desperately trying to convince people otherwise. Heck, it even displayed an accounting software … hehehe. Gl.

 

[Mimiron]

A glorious m4 chip in a fn ipad limited by its os, i applaud you, apple.

 

[jo-1]

A glorious m4 chip in a fn ipad limited by its os, i applaud you, apple.

What you're not comprehending is the efficiency boost of the M4 - it's not about the processing power but about getting the same workload with half the electrical power.

Comments like yours are nothing less than a total misunderstanding of SoCs and the mobile strategy Apple drives. All mobile devices are limited by the battery capacity and current delivery they can manage within the thermal envelope of the devices.

The M4 is the most efficient SoC Apple ever did with respect to power per Watt - that is something everyone can benefit from.

Let me elaborate a bit more - imagine you're on the road doing work - I know hard to imagine - without a power plug anywhere you're limited to the battery capacity in your device - imagine now that you have to work in your CRM system, update a few customer data and send some emails to your customers and company - having a few telephone conferences and a board meeting where you have to present the quarterly numbers ...

Now imagine that the more effective OLED display draws less power and the SoC can do everything without even touching the performance cores since there are so many optimized efficiency cores and now imagine you can do all that at a lovely biergarten outside.

This is a normal day my daily life in my job. And this gets done now even more effective without being forced to use my horrible Dell laptop since BYOD of iPad OS devices is allowed but not MAC OS devices.

For me the iPad is one of the best ever devices and now it's with some 20 W maximum power draw even more powerful in case I would like to cut a video on the go - which is probably a less often task than earning money with my daily tasks 😅

 

[JerryDon]

Not much happening these days at Apple . . .

 

[jo-1]

Not much happening these days at Apple . . .

you're working for Apple in a middle management position and have insights you can share with us?

 

[incidentallycheckout]

It's so dry, boring, and unenthusiastic without a room full of people getting excited.

The cheers for everything was more annoying than helpful IMO.

Though I don't like laugh tracks and audience applause in TV shows either.