External Displays Swapping - Arrangement Not Remembered!

[tstafford]

I documented this in another thread. But will here too.

I have Studio Base, 3 ASD all connected directly via TB3 cables. I had never experienced this issue when I was running my MBP14 w/ two ASD but immediately had it when I got the Studio. The much more frequent issue (nearly every sleep/wake cycle) was windows moving and resizing.

At some point it just stopped happening. I didn't change any settings, cables, equipment, nothing. I wish I knew what changed so I could be of help.

It's a super annoying issue and I hope others are as fortunate as I have been.

 

[macsplusmacs]

I wonder if an applescript or terminal app that would "wake and sleep" the mac (and the displays) every 10 minutes? would "solve" this.

Maybe there is a 15 internal clock in the mac that sets displays to "deep sleep" (where the issue occurs) that we are not aware of.

I am only on one 5K display right now (but am looking at multiple Samsung 5Ks if they are the deal they seem) otherwise I would test.

????

 

[tstafford]

I wonder if an applescript or terminal app that would "wake and sleep" the mac (and the displays) every 10 minutes? would "solve" this.

Maybe there is a 15 internal clock in the mac that sets displays to "deep sleep" (where the issue occurs) that we are not aware of.

I am only on one 5K display right now (but am looking at multiple Samsung 5Ks if they are the deal they seem) otherwise I would test.

????

That wouldn't have helped me. I could lock the screen, realize I forgot to send a text, immediately unlock and the windows would have moved/resized.

 

[macsplusmacs]

I don't know if this is a thing in the Cocoa API.

but is there a list of all the actions performed by the OS on lock screen or sleep.

and in a custome app, return false to those we do not want to perform, then go down the list and see if returning false (meaning do not perform IF possible) on each one does something different? then its a matter of deduction.

again, I can't test but I have this app:

Sleep Aid - View a Mac's sleeping habits, solve issues, improve battery life, stop sniffers

Sleep Aid is designed to reveal details on how a Mac sleeps. This is useful to see what's going on, and to help troubleshoot why a Mac won't go to sleep (even with lid closed), or why it keeps waking in the middle of the night. Sleep Aid includes many Apple sleep settings, as well as some...

ohanaware.com

Wonder if this would tell us more.

 

[Basic75]

Has anyone considered we all just submit bug reports to Apple and link to this thread?

Please everybody do this!

 

[Basic75]

Can we get an important YouTuber or tech news site to shame Apple into action?

 

[rusty-mac]

This has been driving me crazy. 2020 14" MBP M1 with two identical Samsung monitors and for whatever reason, it wants to make the left one the primary every time the computer sleeps or restarts. I swapped monitors around and tried swapping usb-c to displayport cables to no avail. The only way I can stop it is to unplug the displayport from the left monitor, wake the macbook, then plug it in after right monitor has the desktop. Hopefully someone can figure it out. I even reset the monitors but nothing changed. Thanks!

 

[NateCow]

Just adding onto the swapping problem... when that's not happening, I have another issue where I'll switch my monitors back to MiniDP, which is what my Mac Studio is using, and the secondary monitor comes up but not the primary monitor. Even if I was using it a moment earlier, nothing I do will make the Mac send a signal to the monitor. Only way around it is to do a hard reboot, since all the system controls are on the monitor it refuses to display.

Seriously considering just using this thing with a single monitor again. Dual monitors is just a complete cluster.

 

[tstafford]

Seriously considering just using this thing with a single monitor again. Dual monitors is just a complete cluster.

That would really suck if you end up having to do that. The primary reason I purchased the Studio was the display support and thankfully it has fixed itself for me. It's hard to ignore however that I am using three Apple displays. I like the benefits I get from Apple's tightly integrated ecosystem but it shouldn't come at the cost of not being able to use non-Apple displays.

 

[Minaby]

Not so sure but personally I think this is an issue caused by external monitors' firmware.

I use LG27' 4k at office and Dell U2720Q 4k at home, macbook 14" M1 pro. I got this issue at office, every time macbook waking up from sleep + LG, my desktop arrangement screws up. But it doesn't happened at home.

 

[xraydoc]

I’ve just read through this entire thread, and regularly experience both issues (displays switching places, and windows moving from display to display). I can confirm a few things:

- this issue is not unique to intel Macs vs silicon; I’ve had the problem for YEARS with a 27” iMac Pro. I assumed it was an undiagnosable hardware issue with the machine, so replaced it with a new Mac Studio. Same problem.

- the issue is not unique to people using identical external displays vs. different displays from differing manufacturers. I have a BenQ 27”, and Apple Studio Display, and an LG 27”.

- the issue is not solved by using different connection methods. My BenQ is connected HDMI, the Studio Display uses Apple’s supplied Thunderbolt cable, and the LG is USB3-to-DisplayPort.

- there are no longer any “Mission Control” settings on Ventura, so that fix won’t work either.

I generally leave my machine on all the time; but when it goes to sleep from inactivity, the displays swap around. The BenQ and LG are both rotated 90 degrees, so sometimes the login screen ends up sideways when the machine wakes. All three are set to ‘default’ resolution. Best option I’ve found is to block the displays from turning off at all, which isn’t the most energy-efficient solution, but seems to (mostly) keep the displays from swapping around.

I would love to see a definitive fix from Apple.

I have no doubt this sucks for people affected.
I'll say that I have two Apple Studio Displays on my 14" MacBook Pro (M1 Pro) and do not have this issue at all -- the MBP is connected to a Thunderbolt 4 hub, to which each display is connected, so there's only one cable connected to the Mac. The Mac puts the right display in the right place every time. After sleep, after disconnecting and reconnecting, etc.
But, one definitely should not have to use multiple $1200 displays just to prevent this from happening.

 

[Lvkz]

Hello All!

My setup is a dual setup: Two identical Samsung monitors, one connected thru USB-C and the other through HDMI, and the same described behavior, some times it wakes up as desired, but other times all messed up. I'm pretty sure it does not have to do with the Mission Control settings since it has to do with the spaces, not the desktop placement.

This is my current workaround if it is helpful to anybody: I read that the suggested application "Stay" does not work, so it was not an option.

So I kept reading the thread, and there was a mention of an application called displayplacer that caught my eye. Here is the GitHub link, but if you are lazy and don't want to read the whole ReadMe, here is the installation command with brew:

brew tap jakehilborn/jakehilborn && brew install displayplacer

Once installed, setup your desk like you want/need and run the following command:

displayplacer list

At the very bottom of the output is the command to "set" the display positions as they are when you run the command. My command is the following:

displayplacer "id:42A05AE1-8F6E-443D-AB32-85EB80A747A7 res:1920x1080 hz:75 color_depth:8 scaling:off origin:(0,0) degree:0" "id:BF0612DA-F98B-44AC-B500-06C7350727C8 res:1920x1080 hz:75 color_depth:8 scaling:off origin:(1920,0) degree:0"

So you can scramble the displays again and test the command, and it should go back as intended. If that works, the rest is straightforward: create a script to run that command.

At this point, I had two options: Automator or Shortcuts; I decided on the latter since it was more UI friendly and had more info to set up. So, I created a shortcut, "Run Shell Script," and assigned a keyboard shortcut.

It complains about not finding the displayplacer program, so I ran whereis displayplacer in the terminal, and it told me that it was located at /opt/homebrew/bin, so I added that at the beginning of the Shell Script, and it looks like:

/opt/homebrew/bin/displayplacer "id:42A05AE1-8F6E-443D-AB32-85EB80A747A7 res:1920x1080 hz:75 color_depth:8 scaling:off origin:(0,0) degree:0" "id:BF0612DA-F98B-44AC-B500-06C7350727C8 res:1920x1080 hz:75 color_depth:8 scaling:off origin:(1920,0) degree:0"

This time it worked, so now, if everything is messed up when the computer resumes, I just hit that shortcut, and everything gets fixed!

Success? Not yet. When it went to sleep and woke up, everything was messed up again, and running the command didn't seem to work this time. So I switch the "origin" parameters on the scripts, so the other monitor has 0,0 and the second 1920,0. Run that script, and now it works.

So, the issue now is that I have two possible commands to fix this issue. And again two options: create another shortcut for that o make the "Shortcut" script smarter. And, of course, I choose the latter.

Since I have two scripts, I modified the Shortcut to prompt me with a message asking if the first command did not fix the issue to try the second command ("Cancel" will stop the Shortcut and not run the second command), and sure enough, now the shortcut works for both scenarios. I can hit a combination of keys on my keyboard, or I can run it from the MenuBar, so it is not perfect, but at least I don't have to go all the way to settings and rearrange everything every time the computer decides to act up.

It's not optimal, but it is a simple workaround that works for me. The same can be done for three displays, just more alerts involved.

Attached is what the Shortcut looks like.

 

[meboy]

I’ve just read through this entire thread, and regularly experience both issues (displays switching places, and windows moving from display to display). I can confirm a few things:

- this issue is not unique to intel Macs vs silicon; I’ve had the problem for YEARS with a 27” iMac Pro. I assumed it was an undiagnosable hardware issue with the machine, so replaced it with a new Mac Studio. Same problem.

- the issue is not unique to people using identical external displays vs. different displays from differing manufacturers. I have a BenQ 27”, and Apple Studio Display, and an LG 27”.

- the issue is not solved by using different connection methods. My BenQ is connected HDMI, the Studio Display uses Apple’s supplied Thunderbolt cable, and the LG is USB3-to-DisplayPort.

- there are no longer any “Mission Control” settings on Ventura, so that fix won’t work either.

I generally leave my machine on all the time; but when it goes to sleep from inactivity, the displays swap around. The BenQ and LG are both rotated 90 degrees, so sometimes the login screen ends up sideways when the machine wakes. All three are set to ‘default’ resolution. Best option I’ve found is to block the displays from turning off at all, which isn’t the most energy-efficient solution, but seems to (mostly) keep the displays from swapping around.

I would love to see a definitive fix from Apple.

That's disappointing..

I had heard Ventura fixed it for a few people.
Guess not?

 

[Barlog M.]

Short report. macOS Ventura 13.2. Problem still in place.

 

[70orbits]

I haven’t updated this thread for a while, but I did manage to fix the issue. What you need is a monitor that accepts a display port AND hdmi. Having two single of either won’t work. So what you need to do is plug a usb c to display port cable into one monitor and a hdmi to hdmi into the other. With this configuration, I have not experienced switching again. My guess is that having two different input connections is enough to tell the OS how to identify each separately.

 

[NikoBeaR]

Mac Mini M2 Pro here w/ 3x viewsonics 27" experiencing the same thing. Displays keep shifting on boot, very annoying!

 

[Joe12]

I just bought a Mac mini M2 and am having the same problem. I've got 2 Samsung monitors with the same name, one plugged in directly with a HDMI and the other with a USB-c to HDMI. Every time I wake it up from sleep or turn it on the displays are switched around. How has this not been fixed yet??

 

[xraydoc]

I just bought a Mac mini M2 and am having the same problem. I've got 2 Samsung monitors with the same name, one plugged in directly with a HDMI and the other with a USB-c to HDMI. Every time I wake it up from sleep or turn it on the displays are switched around. How has this not been fixed yet??

If you can, try connecting one via USB-C to DisplayPort adapter instead and leave the other directly connected to HDMI.

 

[giro83]

Please contact Apple support and report the problem... and link them to this thread. I did so and the operator said she attached my case to their internal bug for this issue. She said the issue will likely be fixed within the year. She said it will help if more people raise this, so the priority of the issue will keep bumping up. She said my support case will stay open, and I will get an email notification when the issue is resolved. I don't necessarily believe all that, but there you go.

Seriously people, rather than complaining here, open a support case and tell Apple you will not buy any more of their products until this is fixed. Nothing else will matter.

 

[fooyork]

Please contact Apple support and report the problem... and link them to this thread. I did so and the operator said she attached my case to their internal bug for this issue. She said the issue will likely be fixed within the year. She said it will help if more people raise this, so the priority of the issue will keep bumping up. She said my support case will stay open, and I will get an email notification when the issue is resolved. I don't necessarily believe all that, but there you go.

Seriously people, rather than complaining here, open a support case and tell Apple you will not buy any more of their products until this is fixed. Nothing else will matter.

I tried to do this but Apple Support would not do so as I am on the Beta Testing Prog. Ha.

 

[milan187]

I started a case with Apple, gathered logs, waiting on an engineer to get back to me.
I recommend everyone do the same.

 

[puppymachine]

I am also having issues. Duplicate monitors, one is HDMI, the other is USB connected. Mac Studio Ultra. It wasn't happenign last week, but happening about 90% of the time this week.

I will also contact Apple

 

[edternet]

I contacted apple yesterday and opened a case too. This may be the way to go, everyone needs to open cases like Denzel in Training Day. If apple runs on a policy of "squeaky wheel gets the grease" then maybe they'll fix it if we hammer them with new support cases. I spent about 40 minutes total on the phone and in a chat, and shared this forum link to both reps and I kept referencing it so they know there are lots of out here with the same problem.

 

[aloshka]

So going to add some more fuel to this conversation. I'm on an m2 max , and obviously same issue as all, except i'm running 3 monitors all identical, all USB C (HDMI not an option or port). Constant swapping and sometime mixing scaling as well on most wake ups.

That said, I did try 3 studio display monitors, and flawless 100% of the time. No swapping.

Interestingly enough when I did ioreg -l | grep EDID all 3 studio displays came back with the same exact EDID. So I don't think it's the "serial number" issue. What I really think the difference is in how the monitors register with macOS.

The studio displays are always "on", even when they are not. What I mean by that is they "boot" and once they are booted and on, connecting tb4 to them turns them on immediately. When you plug them in, they are instantly on, no handshakes, no flickering, no searching signal, no scaling, no rearranging, it's as if they were never disconnected to begin with.

All other 3rd party monitors all go through the same sequence. They light up, show DP or HDMI connected, then image shows up. Some take 2-3 seconds, some take longer (all same brand, same year, same model, same everything)

If I video record the monitors waking up, you can see some wake up and register faster than others. The order they wake up and register, is what determines if your arrangement will be screwed up.

Sometimes mid turns on first, registers and shows picture first. If it does, the rest follow and are arranged correctly. If any of the other panels "fires up" first and connect, everything is screwed up and macOS basically thinks they are brand new monitors.

So I don't think it's "random". It's just a race to which monitor connects first.

 

[xraydoc]

So I don't think it's "random". It's just a race to which monitor connects first.

Except with my two studio displays, they never swap - even when I disconnect them from my MBP and reconnect. They always go to the right place. I think it's something about how macOS is treating 3rd party displays.