Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up

[user1234]

I’m getting rather confused regarding which display type is actually best for your eye health.

I understand the concern regarding PWM and I am considering an 11 with LCD for that reason.

But when searching for information on which is healthier, there are many reports saying OLED, like these.

iPhone XS Max display is scientifically healthier for your eyes

Apple may have downplayed one major feature for the display of the iPhone XS and iPhone XS Max. Based on testing from Tsing-Hua University in Taiwan, it

www.cultofmac.com

Apple iPhone XS Max OLED display healthier for your eyes than LCD displays: finds study

Apple iPhone XS Max OLED display healthier for your eyes than LCD displays: finds study tech news at BGR India

www.bgr.in

In terms of harmful blue light OLED is better. In terms of the health effects of PWM it's not. Conclusions on scientific studies are biased when they only test for one property and doesn't take everything into consideration.

By the way, Micro-LED, that's thought to eventually be the replacement for OLED because it solves many of the issues, will emit more blue light than OLED. Every technology has its pros and cons. As it stands right now my opinion is that LCD has the fewest cons.

 

[jimmy_uk]

Smaller 11 (non pro) would be a dream.

I'd like a larger Max size version, smaller bezels and all.

 

[bsmr]

Have a look: https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...pro-11-pro-max-vs-x-xs.2200513/#post-27784806

 

[majkom]

M

MicroLED is basically the same underlying technology, only that the LEDs are made of the traditional materials rather than being organic. MicroLED by itself will solve nothing unfortunately. They still color shift at low brightness with DC dimming too. Other technological means are needed to get rid of the issue.

Still dont understand why oled tvs are flicker free and phines are flicker hell, is it about power saving or something else?

 

[majkom]

Yikes. I can’t see the flicker on my own phone with my naked eyes unless I try to read at night and try to see it. And even then that doesn’t seem to do anything to me.

My Pixel 2is so flickery it looks almost like your video to my naked eye. It flickers at a rate it only annoys me, but doesn’t do any harm.

I got my iPhone X for an early Christmas present a couple years ago, so the return period lasted almost a full month and I actually lasted that long with the X. I ultimately returned it for eye strain. I didn’t enjoy using the display. I couldn’t read ebooks on it. I got headaches. Basically my reaction then was the typical one. I went back to my 7 Plus.

On the second iPhone XS Max, I had a display that looked less flickery and nicer than that of my iPhone X. I think I had it for a couple of days and woke up and watched a movie on it. Then went to use it in the kitchen where we had just replaced one of the incandescent bulbs with an LED bulb and bam...I got a seizure variant of a migraine.

After that seizure I was hyper sensitive to pwm for around a month and couldn’t even look at my Samsung S9+ display which previously gave me no problems. When I’d try, I could see a mad flicker that I couldn’t ordinarily see before! Jeez what a strange experience that was!

Now here with the 11 Pro, all I can do is take it day by day. At least it’s not unpleasant to read on the way my first iPhone X was. I’m still on dark mode.

I actually really love everything else about this phone so it’s hard to do this trial period and wait and see if it’s going to knock me on my butt when I least expect it the way my XS Max did.

Those of you who got immediate discomfort within the first day or 2 of using the 11’s...I wonder how you would do on other OLED panels like those of the latest Samsung phones. I know now that it’s not pwm in general that is my problem. It was specifically something about it in iPhones.

And yeah Face ID tech leaves me with dry gritty eyes. It does on my Xr, too. Fortunately that won’t be so bad in a few days after I’m finished authenticating my accounts.

I’m starting to use password storage on iCloud Keychain more so I won’t have to go through that again.

Still dont get why anyone undergoes this for a phone...

 

[TDDM]

Have a look: https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...pro-11-pro-max-vs-x-xs.2200513/#post-27784806

Huh, looks like Apple did increase the Hz.

“The display flickers at 290.7 Hz (most likely due to pulse width modulation PWM) at a set brightness of 99% and below. There should be no flicker about that.
The frequency of 290.7 Hz is relatively high and therefore should not cause any problems for most people. Sensitive users should, according to reports, even at 500 Hz and above perceive a flicker.”

I haven’t tested a pro model yet, but that’s pretty encouraging for the future. Let’s hope Apple keeps pushing the Hz for the 2020 models.

 

[timeconsumer]

Huh, looks like Apple did increase the Hz.

“The display flickers at 290.7 Hz (most likely due to pulse width modulation PWM) at a set brightness of 99% and below. There should be no flicker about that.
The frequency of 290.7 Hz is relatively high and therefore should not cause any problems for most people. Sensitive users should, according to reports, even at 500 Hz and above perceive a flicker.”

I haven’t tested a pro model yet, but that’s pretty encouraging for the future. Let’s hope Apple keeps pushing the Hz for the 2020 models.

Just put the phone on 100% brightness with reduce white point to 60% and I would say it’s definitely a huge improvement for me. However, I can’t imagine it’s good to have it at 100% brightness all the time.

 

[now i see it]

The iPhone 8 Plus will easily be good for 5 years. Maybe by then  will have figured this hell out

 

[5105973]

Still dont get why anyone undergoes this for a phone...

It’s a long story. It’s about me growing up watching the progression of home computing combined with reading and watching too much science fiction and wanting all that stuff. Wondering if I would ever live long enough to see basically the sort of thing an iPhone is.

If it were just a phone...nah. Though I did get pretty hyped up by my first gigantic Nokia cellular phone.

And I’m just really curious. Maybe this time will be better. Maybe not. I won’t know unless I try.

But honestly...mostly I’m just nuts. 🤪

 

[TDDM]

Just put the phone on 100% brightness with reduce white point to 60% and I would say it’s definitely a huge improvement for me. However, I can’t imagine it’s good to have it at 100% brightness all the time.

Yeah, you’d probably destroy the battery + you couldn’t really use it at night. It’s pretty encouraging that they’re increasing the Hz rate at all honestly, most companies don’t seem to care about that.

The iPhone 8 Plus will easily be good for 5 years. Maybe by then  will have figured this hell out

Agreed. Going by past trends, I could easily see the 8 lasting until iOS17-18. The design is really outdated at this point, but it’s a solid phone otherwise.

 

[newellj]

FWIW, which is little or nothing if you're experiencing problems with these phones, OLED does not require 240Hz, so not all phones with OLED displays implement PWM at that frequency. It's almost no improvement, but notebookcheck.com tested the 11 Pro at 290Hz, rather than the 240Hz rate in the X and XS.

 

[user1234]

Well

Huh, looks like Apple did increase the Hz.

“The display flickers at 290.7 Hz (most likely due to pulse width modulation PWM) at a set brightness of 99% and below. There should be no flicker about that.
The frequency of 290.7 Hz is relatively high and therefore should not cause any problems for most people. Sensitive users should, according to reports, even at 500 Hz and above perceive a flicker.”

I haven’t tested a pro model yet, but that’s pretty encouraging for the future. Let’s hope Apple keeps pushing the Hz for the 2020 models.

That's a step in the right direction. For me it has to be at least above 1500 Hz before I would even consider it, but I wouldn't consider a device with an OLED display at all as long as there are options. Even without health issues long term reliability and color accuracy is still a big concern.

 

[majkom]

Thay higher freq news is awesome, but, till there is face id, it is no go for me

 

[5105973]

Thay higher freq news is awesome, but, till there is face id, it is no go for me

I bet Apple knows some people don’t like it or have concerns and they will try to offer some kind of in-screen Touch ID again when they get the tech more perfected than what is currently out there on Androids. I think they’ve got some of their employees starting to pay attention to what is said about their business and products on social media and major forums.

I had to host a party this evening so all I had time for was a quick game of Animal Crossing while I waited for everyone to arrive. I finally noticed and was bothered by the flicker on the game. I don’t notice it now here typing on the forum. I wonder why.

Tomorrow I’m going to watch a movie on this display. I’ll have to do it after I pick up the kids and before I make dinner. Which is just leftovers. If I end up with a migraine then at least I don’t have to worry about driving or cooking. My teenager can reheat leftovers if I can’t. Actually she’s a good cook in her own right.

That will be a big test for me because this is repeating the sequence of events and the time frame where my XS Max failed for me.

I have been texting with my guests and my husband today and taking photos. Checking emails. So I know I can handle the usual phone tasks on this device.

I worry where I might have the problem is looking for too long at motion on this display. When the characters were moving on Animal Crossing it looked a little bit weird to me. Kind of shimmering from the faint sight of flickering.

 

[FuzzMunky]

FWIW, which is little or nothing if you're experiencing problems with these phones, OLED does not require 240Hz, so not all phones with OLED displays implement PWM at that frequency. It's almost no improvement, but notebookcheck.com tested the 11 Pro at 290Hz, rather than the 240Hz rate in the X and XS.

The test actually said it found PWM within a range of 60Hz -290.7Hz and the graph they demonstrate this with clearly shows a misread result for 290.7Hz (it should be less).

The thing is, I wouldn't have thought they would use 290Hz PWM as it is not divisible by the refresh rate of the screen. But the effect of this could also be an explanation for the jumpy motion we see on these oleds when scrolling for example, a judder brought on by refresh rate being out of sync with the pwm. They probably don't really care about the jumpy motion in this year's model however, as it will make it all the more enticing to upgrade to the pro motion phones next year. The whole Pro nomenclature is clearly tending towards that.

 

[1369281]

The statement (translated to English):

"The iPhone 11 Pro uses Pulse Width Modulation (PWM) for brightness control. The measured amplitude curve is very irregular and ranges between 60 and 290.7 Hz."

 

[user1234]

Still dont understand why oled tvs are flicker free and phines are flicker hell, is it about power saving or something else?

I know some OLED TV's are flicker free, or at least seems to not use PWM. I think it's easier for a TV because they are usually not dimmed as much. Color shift happens at low brightness levels with DC dimming, andI think most TV's stay above this threshold for the most part. That could be an answer, but I haven't looked into TV's enough to know for sure.

 

[Dejected]

waiting for 11 pro users to tell us how they feel so far

 

[jimmy_uk]

waiting for 11 pro users to tell us how they feel so far

There's a thread already on forum.

 

[MICHAELSD]

You guys took the words right out of my mouth. The PWM implementation on iPhone 11 Pro looks like it’s a step in the right direction; albeit, a minor one. I’m not sure it’s really enough to make a difference to anybody who’s sensitive to it.

What I do find curious is how in Notebookcheck’s findings they state there should be no PWM above 99%, but it appears at 100% brightness the display still isn’t flicker-free. I wish they would provide a better explanation. Hypothetically if there was truly no flicker at max brightness (which should be technically possible to implement) we could use Reduce White Point in Accessibility to dim the display.

 

[FuzzMunky]

You guys took the words right out of my mouth. The PWM implementation on iPhone 11 Pro looks like it’s a step in the right direction; albeit, a minor one. I’m not sure it’s really enough to make a difference to anybody who’s sensitive to it.

What I do find curious is how in Notebookcheck’s findings they state there should be no PWM above 99%, but it appears at 100% brightness the display still isn’t flicker-free. I wish they would provide a better explanation. Hypothetically if there was truly no flicker at max brightness (which should be technically possible to implement) we could use Reduce White Point in Accessibility to dim the display.

You don’t have auto brightness turned off probably in accessibility settings. Therefore full brightness is not full brightness.

 

[MICHAELSD]

You don’t have auto brightness turned off probably in accessibility settings. Therefore full brightness is not full brightness.

Can you confirm there’s no flicker at 100% with auto brightness turned off? If so that’s a major development.

If only they implemented a flicker-free Accessibility option that automatically uses Reduce White Point to dim the display so that we don’t have to constantly adjust it. A solution to the issue is possible.

 

[majkom]

Heh, pulled the trigger for iphone 8 128gb... this may last few years till apple give me flicker free phone with touch id again

 

[TDDM]

This is slightly off topic, but is anyone having eye strain issues with the regular iPhone 11? I tried one at the Apple store for like 20 mins and came away with a pretty bad headache. It’s so annoying, it’s supposedly the same LCD as the older iPhones, right?

 

[The.Glorious.Son]

What are the chances that for some this is mental? Make no mistake I 100% acknowledge, believe, etc that pwm symptoms for many are real. But I wonder if there are those who, had they not been aware of this, would have otherwise been fine?

Over the years I’ve had certain symptoms self induced due to stress/anxiety and the over focusing on physical things. I wonder if this happens in situations like this too. I went into my purchase of the Pro Max knowing I was nervous of having pwm symptoms. I wonder if I never truly stood a chance. That if I had a headache or tired eyes for any of a million reasons...the blame was heading to the phone. I don’t know. Just thinking out loud per se.