Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up

[FuzzMunky]

Can you confirm there’s no flicker at 100% with auto brightness turned off? If so that’s a major development.

If only they implemented a flicker-free Accessibility option that automatically uses Reduce White Point to dim the display so that we don’t have to constantly adjust it. A solution to the issue is possible.

I can't confirm it, no, as I do not have an oscilloscope. But it would be illogical for a FULL brightness phone to use PWM, as that would mean it could always go brighter by stopping the PWM altogether. Why would a phone manufacturer not let their phone get to full brightness? Or advertise a lower nits brightness than it was hardware capable of?
[automerge]1569284922[/automerge]

This is slightly off topic, but is anyone having eye strain issues with the regular iPhone 11? I tried one at the Apple store for like 20 mins and came away with a pretty bad headache. It’s so annoying, it’s supposedly the same LCD as the older iPhones, right?

I mean, were you dehydrated? There is nothing special about the 11 that would have caused a headache. Maybe you just had a headache?

 

[1369281]

This is slightly off topic, but is anyone having eye strain issues with the regular iPhone 11? I tried one at the Apple store for like 20 mins and came away with a pretty bad headache. It’s so annoying, it’s supposedly the same LCD as the older iPhones, right?

Apple Store is so bright it gives me a headache just from the overhead lighting on its own haha

 

[TDDM]

But I wonder if there are those who, had they not been aware of this, would have otherwise been fine?

I can only speak for myself, but I had zero eye issues whatsoever and hadn’t even heard of PWM before the X back in 2017. I had no reason to think there would be an issue. Then, same thing happened with the XR. I knew it was LCD, so I thought there was no reason to have a problem. Turns out, the XR messed with my eyes as well.

There may be some people who see this thread and immediately start looking for an issue that they may not have been aware of, but keep in mind that there are also people who *are* having eye strain and headaches, but have no idea what PWM is. I’ve actually seen several people in other PWM threads say things like “Wow, I’ve been having headaches ever since I got my new phone, but never thought twice about it”. I think there are a lot of people who are unaware of what the flickering is doing to them.

I mean, were you dehydrated? There is nothing special about the 11 that would have caused a headache. Maybe you just had a headache?

Nah, it seems to be the same thing with the XR. Just makes my eyes tired and gives me a headache, no discernible reason why. My 7+ doesn’t do this to me either.

But it would be illogical for a FULL brightness phone to use PWM, as that would mean it could always go brighter by stopping the PWM altogether. Why would a phone manufacturer not let their phone get to full brightness?

I dunno why, but there definitely is flickering at max brightness. I’ve disabled the white point thing, turned off auto-brightness, set brightness to 100%, etc, and it’s still there. I was confused because I assumed that max brightness meant there was no need for any PWM.

 

[The.Glorious.Son]

I can only speak for myself, but I had zero eye issues whatsoever and hadn’t even heard of PWM before the X back in 2017. I had no reason to think there would be an issue. Then, same thing happened with the XR. I knew it was LCD, so I thought there was no reason to have a problem. Turns out, the XR messed with my eyes as well.

There may be some people who see this thread and immediately start looking for an issue that they may not have been aware of, but keep in mind that there are also people who *are* having eye strain and headaches, but have no idea what PWM is. I’ve actually seen several people in other PWM threads say things like “Wow, I’ve been having headaches ever since I got my new phone, but never thought twice about it”. I think there are a lot of people who are unaware of what the flickering is doing to them.

Yeah that is more than fair. I wish I’d never known about it because once it was in my head, I was on the lookout. I’m on day 3 using the Pro Max and I have some eye discomfort and mild headaches. But for the life of me I can’t recall if this was how I felt prior at any times just due to wearing glasses, having a bad neck from years of sleeping wrong, dry eyes, etc. I cannot discern what’s from the phone vs what’s just part of my normal life and it’s bugging the hell outta me.

 

[tonybarnaby]

Daily reminder that this appears to be an APPLE thing. Myself and many others have used Android phones with OLED and had no issues with their pwm, yet Apple phones cause nearly instant headaches for us. Pwm is not good, but it's not a black and white situation where someone can say "my eyes can't handle OLED." My eyes can handle every OLED phone I've ever used except for the Max I purchased at launch. There's more to it than just saying it's pwm on its own. It's nothing to me to go back to Android once my 8+ is too slow, but a lot of people would rather get Ebola than own an Android phone.
[automerge]1569289635[/automerge]

Yeah that is more than fair. I wish I’d never known about it because once it was in my head, I was on the lookout. I’m on day 3 using the Pro Max and I have some eye discomfort and mild headaches. But for the life of me I can’t recall if this was how I felt prior at any times just due to wearing glasses, having a bad neck from years of sleeping wrong, dry eyes, etc. I cannot discern what’s from the phone vs what’s just part of my normal life and it’s bugging the hell outta me.

I think you know it's the phone, and are hoping it isn't. That's how I felt about my Max, and I had never heard of pwm until I had to return it due to headaches.

 

[The.Glorious.Son]

I think you know it's the phone, and are hoping it isn't. That's how I felt about my Max, and I had never heard of pwm until I had to return it due to headaches.

It’s possible. But I did make some mental notes about discomforts using my 8 Plus in the days before the Max arrived. At least the strain I feel comes and goes and isn’t to the point of feeling the need for aspirin or whatnot. My screen time is at 9 hours 14 minutes today. I’m hoping a true PWM issue would cause me to feel much worse than this after 9 hours of staring at the screen. But I could be wrong. Lord knows I’m good at that.

 

[5105973]

Having gone from an iPhone 8 Plus to an iPhone XR I can vouch for the fact the Xr is harsher on the eyes than the display on the Plus sized versions of the 6,7 and 8. Honestly it’s more harsh than my Pixel 3XL OLED display. I can’t recommend that phone because it has some issues. But to read on, the 3XL’s OLED display is a dream for me.

The shortcomings of the XR/11 display are not going to necessarily trigger the same neurological effects that pwm does, but it will contribute to eye strain and headaches from whatever it is that makes it come across harsher. I also consider the Xr/11 display to have more glare somehow.

Okay, so today I watched a movie and played Animal Crossing on my 11 Pro. I’m dealing with a little bit of eye strain but it’s probably no worse than what I deal with on my Xr. It is honestly hard to tell.

What I do know for sure: I was NOT doing so well on Dark Mode last night and early this morning. That mode did give me achy breaky eyeballs and I don’t know why. I have some suspicions but can’t be sure. But my eyes immediately thanked me for going back to light mode. I use dark mode on my kindle readers on my iPhone 8 Plus and Note 10+ and Pixel 3XL with no issues, so it’s not that I can’t do dark mode at all. I just seemed to have more strain on this display. White text flicker on a dark background is just harder to bear, for me personally.

I do believe Apple did improve something somehow because my XS Max dropped me on my butt with a migraine and seizures last time after spending the morning watching a movie on it. I had no issues this time on the 11 Pro. I had a very normal time with it.

And I have a lot less eye strain than I had on my original iPhone X.

It looks like I can use this phone. I believe it’s going to be a keeper for me. I’ve got a couple more days before I have to ship my IPhone XR in to Apple for trade.

I think even though it didn’t drop me like a rock this time, that a lot of people who were sensitive in prior years are still at risk to notice or feel some eye strain.

So I’d advise waiting for when supplies are not constrained and it’s easy to make returns to make your own trials. As much as we all want to help each other, it’s such an individualized problem because no two people have the same physiology.

Sorry to write so much. This is pretty much my last report and last day of specifically testing my reaction to the displays. Of course if anything changes for the worse or even improves, I’ll let you all know.

 

[tonybarnaby]

Pwm for me feels like a painful sinus infection and it's damn near impossible to focus when scrolling. Then looking up from the phone I felt the need to blink several times to get back to normal. Plus a lingering headache. Not worth it to me to even try a pro because I know it's the same thing. If this is the last LCD iPhone I will buy an 11 next year and ride that out.

 

[The.Glorious.Son]

Pwm for me feels like a painful sinus infection and it's damn near impossible to focus when scrolling. Then looking up from the phone I felt the need to blink several times to get back to normal. Plus a lingering headache. Not worth it to me to even try a pro because I know it's the same thing. If this is the last LCD iPhone I will buy an 11 next year and ride that out.

I do also have to blink to focus but I had to do that on my 8 plus too. This whole deal sucks!! Sorry you are going through this. Mine is a lesser extent but I feel you.
[automerge]1569290842[/automerge]

Having gone from an iPhone 8 Plus to an iPhone XR I can vouch for the fact the Xr is harsher on the eyes than the display on the Plus sized versions of the 6,7 and 8. Honestly it’s more harsh than my Pixel 3XL OLED display. I can’t recommend that phone because it has some issues. But to read on, the 3XL’s OLED display is a dream for me.

The shortcomings of the XR/11 display are not going to necessarily trigger the same neurological effects that pwm does, but it will contribute to eye strain and headaches from whatever it is that makes it come across harsher. I also consider the Xr/11 display to have more glare somehow.

Okay, so today I watched a movie and played Animal Crossing on my 11 Pro. I’m dealing with a little bit of eye strain but it’s probably no worse than what I deal with on my Xr. It is honestly hard to tell.

What I do know for sure: I was NOT doing so well on Dark Mode last night and early this morning. That mode did give me achy breaky eyeballs and I don’t know why. I have some suspicions but can’t be sure. But my eyes immediately thanked me for going back to light mode. I use dark mode on my kindle readers on my iPhone 8 Plus and Note 10+ and Pixel 3XL with no issues, so it’s not that I can’t do dark mode at all. I just seemed to have more strain on this display. White text flicker on a dark background is just harder to bear, for me personally.

I do believe Apple did improve something somehow because my XS Max dropped me on my butt with a migraine and seizures last time after spending the morning watching a movie on it. I had no issues this time on the 11 Pro. I had a very normal time with it.

And I have a lot less eye strain than I had on my original iPhone X.

It looks like I can use this phone. I believe it’s going to be a keeper for me. I’ve got a couple more days before I have to ship my IPhone XR in to Apple for trade.

I think even though it didn’t drop me like a rock this time, that a lot of people who were sensitive in prior years are still at risk to notice or feel some eye strain.

So I’d advise waiting for when supplies are not constrained and it’s easy to make returns to make your own trials. As much as we all want to help each other, it’s such an individualized problem because no two people have the same physiology.

Sorry to write so much. This is pretty much my last report and last day of specifically testing my reaction to the displays. Of course if anything changes for the worse or even improves, I’ll let you all know.

Please keep me (us) posted as you make your ultimate decision. I’m holding out hope. I LOVE this phone. I want it to work. It’s been tolerable today. Fingers crossed!

 

[tonybarnaby]

My wife has zero symptoms with her X. Seeing how funky pwm looks in slow motion, I asked her if she felt comfortable using her phone and she said she couldn't go back to an older phone like an 8. The 11 and the XR are both options, but it's hard to convince someone to give up a phone where they have zero issues and downgrade in many ways to an 11 or Xr.

 

[orbitalpunk]

I went from a 6s to the 11. My eyes feel fine. I got an immediate eye strain when trying the Xs last year.

 

[brentsg]

What are the chances that for some this is mental? Make no mistake I 100% acknowledge, believe, etc that pwm symptoms for many are real. But I wonder if there are those who, had they not been aware of this, would have otherwise been fine?

Over the years I’ve had certain symptoms self induced due to stress/anxiety and the over focusing on physical things. I wonder if this happens in situations like this too. I went into my purchase of the Pro Max knowing I was nervous of having pwm symptoms. I wonder if I never truly stood a chance. That if I had a headache or tired eyes for any of a million reasons...the blame was heading to the phone. I don’t know. Just thinking out loud per se.

I think this is pretty dismissive.

Many of those people probably would have chased their tails with eye strain, headaches, fatigue, etc and had no idea why. While I have not experienced this with a phone, I absolutely experienced it with PC monitors that were PWM. I went through a difficult time where I thought it was the overhead lights, some health issue, you name it. I went to my primary care, to an eye doctor (that prescribed glasses that made it worse).. People at work thought I was crazy, as did my wife.

Finally on a whim I had someone at work swap out my monitor for a different one and the problem was gone overnight. It wasn't until years later that I learned what PWM was.

 

[habsi]

I’m another one who’s experienced a significant amount of eye stress with every iPhone since the X. Similar symptoms as lots of you have mentioned, starts with minor eye fatigue/dryness then turns into quite a headache, sometimes even leading to a nauseating feeling. I’ve had to return the original X as well as the Xr. (Had an iPhone since the 3GS, can stare at my 8 until the battery drains and I’m fine.)

I have to work with a few OLED Android phones and they all seem to give me significant eye strain as well, especially the Pixel 3.

I think the people complaining about the 11 are wrongly focused on the display — if the display is the same as the 8, then it’s probably not that. My Xr killed my eyes until I turned off the attention awareness features, after which it was decent but not perfect. I then covered the notch, as the IR sensor continued to fire pointlessly even when FaceID and all the attention awareness features are off. Why? I have no idea, I asked Apple and after looking into it they just told me you just can’t turn it off, and neither can they through even a developer profile.

Despite getting crafty with how I covered it, it ultimately still kind of irritated my eyes to the point it wasn’t worth it when factoring how much I use my device. I’m almost certain FaceID and that IR blaster is the culprit for me (and probably a significant amount of others)... So i’m wondering if anyone who has the new 11 or 11Pros, can you go into the settings, turn off Face ID/Attention Awareness features and then check via a crappy old phone camera to see if the IR is still working? After investigating it for a while, I feel like that would be the fix for my issues (considering how Apple made two significant changes on the X onward: FaceID and it’s suite of sensors, and OLED screens, if the Xr/11 eliminated one of those, my thinking is it’s got to be the other, though for some both may be irritating to the eyes.)

 

[DePaulBlueDemon]

So I responded to this thread when I originally got my X last Black Friday. May have deleted my response. However--and this may be a complete overreaction--my migraines have intensified ten-fold since using it. For the past 11 months my migraines have become unbearable. I've been to headache specialists. I've had every single type of test done you can imagine. I've tried 3 different migraine prevention medications. It may be a coincidence, but this has me wondering about it all over again. However, it may be unrelated.

I may get a burner LCD phone for a month to test the theory.

 

[The.Glorious.Son]

I think this is pretty dismissive.

Many of those people probably would have chased their tails with eye strain, headaches, fatigue, etc and had no idea why. While I have not experienced this with a phone, I absolutely experienced it with PC monitors that were PWM. I went through a difficult time where I thought it was the overhead lights, some health issue, you name it. I went to my primary care, to an eye doctor (that prescribed glasses that made it worse).. People at work thought I was crazy, as did my wife.

Finally on a whim I had someone at work swap out my monitor for a different one and the problem was gone overnight. It wasn't until years later that I learned what PWM was.

How is it ‘pretty dismissive’ when a) I qualified it as ‘for some’, b) I acknowledged that it’s a very real thing, c) targeted those who were aware that such a thing existed before trying a pwm phone.

Just as you went through hoops to find out what was the root cause of your issue, perhaps there are others who had their mind set to register even the slightest eye strain or headache at the onset of using the phone. To the point that even if the eye strain feeling or headache were due to any number of reasons other than the phone, it was the phone that was going to be blamed. From there, the anxiety that it might continue each time they looked at the phone would allow for the symptoms to reproduce.

It was simply a thought starter and certainly not dismissive of those truly pwm sensitive.

 

[Plutonius]

Maybe the iPhone X display is too small for some people ?

 

[orbitalpunk]

one of the sensors does aimlessly blink even with face ID and attention aware off. i am not sure which one it is. could be the the flood illuminator. the dot projector only turns on when you activate an animoji capture in messages. other then that, it never turns on.

possible flood illuminator (click to play)

https://imgur.com/YONa1fl

dot projector for animoji only (click to play)

https://imgur.com/TZFKUaF

 

[5105973]

one of the sensors does aimlessly blink even with face ID and attention aware off. i am not sure which one it is. could be the the flood illuminator. the dot projector only turns on when you activate an animoji capture in messages. other then that, it never turns on.

possible flood illuminator (click to play)

https://imgur.com/YONa1fl

dot projector for animoji only (click to play)

https://imgur.com/TZFKUaF

Is it the proximity sensor?

 

[orbitalpunk]

Is it the proximity sensor?

im not sure . they are next to each other

 

[i-Liam]

Last year I got the XS max and had suffered headaches with it, so I went with the XR. This year I took a chance on getting an 11 pro, and I’m pleased to say that since I got it on friday, i’ve had no headaches or other issues.

 

[5105973]

im not sure . they are next to each other

View attachment 862948

Hmm, it does look like it could be the flood illuminator and the dot projector. That is weird they would keep firing like that all the time. Apple goes through a lot of engineering contortions to cut down power consumption, after all.

I know there was a forum member last year who made a similar film making similar claims of these two light sources firing off constantly.

That might explain why some people have so much discomfort on the Xr, too. I wonder if it would explain why I don’t get any problems from my Android phones.

I know I can feel it when the phone is bombarding my eyes full throttle when I am messing around with Animoji. That feels different. I don’t get the same feeling using my iPhone normally. So whatever is going on here, I don’t think it’s these components operating at full power. However I don’t know why they’re operating at all. Maybe they have to keep partially discharging for some reason a non engineer like me won’t know.

I think some people already experimented with covering up the notch (need to go back many pages to find that in this thread) and still had vision discomfort.

There are just too many variables in the equation.

 

[user1234]

one of the sensors does aimlessly blink even with face ID and attention aware off. i am not sure which one it is. could be the the flood illuminator. the dot projector only turns on when you activate an animoji capture in messages. other then that, it never turns on.

possible flood illuminator (click to play)

https://imgur.com/YONa1fl

dot projector for animoji only (click to play)

https://imgur.com/TZFKUaF

That is the proximity sensor. It's a very low power IR light. It's on every smartphone on the market (possibly with some exceptions). Should not cause any issues. The flood illuminator is way more powerful.

 

[5105973]

Last year I got the XS max and had suffered headaches with it, so I went with the XR. This year I took a chance on getting an 11 pro, and I’m pleased to say that since I got it on friday, i’ve had no headaches or other issues.

I’ve been reading and posting on mine all morning and it’s been great so far. I’m happy yours is working out for you, too.

 

[1369281]

I wish this thread had a summary of information that we all agree on so that the same stuff doesn't continually keep coming up. I think @TDDM would be a good person to write something like this up. (Sorry to volunteer!)

 

[austyn23]

I’ve been reading and posting on mine all morning and it’s been great so far. I’m happy yours is working out for you, too.

but have you got eye strain with the X or XS before?