I’m not sure exactly why, but since no smartphone in the Notebookcheck PWM ranking has a PWM frequency above ~270 Hz I assume it’s either a technical limitation, or that higher frequency would be significantly more expensive to implement. It’s easy for an LED backlight since they are all adjusted to the same brightness and driven in series, parallell or both. It’s probably a lot more tricky to adjust a few million subpixels to individual brightness levels. Maybe the subpixels can’t yet be addressed fast enough for a higher PWM frequency. I don’t know, but I wish I did.
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Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up
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I’m not sure exactly why, but since no smartphone in the Notebookcheck PWM ranking has a PWM frequency above ~270 Hz I assume it’s either a technical limitation, or that higher frequency would be significantly more expensive to implement. It’s easy for an LED backlight since they are all adjusted to the same brightness and driven in series, parallell or both. It’s probably a lot more tricky to adjust a few million subpixels to individual brightness levels. Maybe the subpixels can’t yet be addressed fast enough for a higher PWM frequency. I don’t know, but I wish I did.
I had the original X and yeah I had eye strain. But I wear glasses. Had I had a dark mode on it back then it might have been better. I do better with bold font and higher contrast.
so I went to the Pro Max and it’s a lot better for me to read easier.
so I went to the Pro Max and it’s a lot better for me to read easier.
Most likely because it would impact battery life. And that’s a big no no for Apple
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My guess is it’s “expensive” in terms of energy cost. Rather than a hardware limitation
The chip may consume some more power running at a higher frequency, but the screen would use exactly the same amount at exactly the same brightness. Same duty cycle, only higher frequency. I don't think that's the issue given the amount of LCD based phones that are running at 1500+ Hz. Possibly if the individual addressing adds to the power consumption but I don't think that's the issue. An increase in refresh rate does however come with a big penalty on energy consumption.
I’m not sure. It’s a real bummer. Aside from more trivial things (to me) such as the lower ppi screen compared to my 8 plus:
- losing the telephoto lens of the 8 plus would impact me more than gaining an ultra wide lens
- even the slightest loss of usable screen width would impact watching content in landscape and further cramp the keyboard for my extra large hands
- the font on the 11 is smaller than on the 8 plus in areas like apps and safari where it’s unaffected by increasing font size in accessibility
- various reviews have stated that the 11 camera is less effective as the pro model during portrait mode, night mode, etc because of the lack of telephoto lens to leverage during the shots and that bothers me
I guess I’ll stay 8 plus yet again
Yikes. I can’t see the flicker on my own phone with my naked eyes unless I try to read at night and try to see it. And even then that doesn’t seem to do anything to me.
My Pixel 2is so flickery it looks almost like your video to my naked eye. It flickers at a rate it only annoys me, but doesn’t do any harm.
I got my iPhone X for an early Christmas present a couple years ago, so the return period lasted almost a full month and I actually lasted that long with the X. I ultimately returned it for eye strain. I didn’t enjoy using the display. I couldn’t read ebooks on it. I got headaches. Basically my reaction then was the typical one. I went back to my 7 Plus.
On the second iPhone XS Max, I had a display that looked less flickery and nicer than that of my iPhone X. I think I had it for a couple of days and woke up and watched a movie on it. Then went to use it in the kitchen where we had just replaced one of the incandescent bulbs with an LED bulb and bam...I got a seizure variant of a migraine.
After that seizure I was hyper sensitive to pwm for around a month and couldn’t even look at my Samsung S9+ display which previously gave me no problems. When I’d try, I could see a mad flicker that I couldn’t ordinarily see before! Jeez what a strange experience that was!
Now here with the 11 Pro, all I can do is take it day by day. At least it’s not unpleasant to read on the way my first iPhone X was. I’m still on dark mode.
I actually really love everything else about this phone so it’s hard to do this trial period and wait and see if it’s going to knock me on my butt when I least expect it the way my XS Max did.
Those of you who got immediate discomfort within the first day or 2 of using the 11’s...I wonder how you would do on other OLED panels like those of the latest Samsung phones. I know now that it’s not pwm in general that is my problem. It was specifically something about it in iPhones.
And yeah Face ID tech leaves me with dry gritty eyes. It does on my Xr, too. Fortunately that won’t be so bad in a few days after I’m finished authenticating my accounts.
I’m starting to use password storage on iCloud Keychain more so I won’t have to go through that again.
I love my XS, but since day 1 I have noticed that the screen gets very fuzzy when I scroll. This leads to eye strain. However, today I got to play a lot with the Xr and 11 (not Pro), and it’s the same as with my XS. I thought these LCD screens were supposed to give less eye strain? Anyway, then I played with the iPad Pro, and the eye strain immediately went away.
Conclusion: I need 120Hz ProMotion display on all my devices.
Is this a separate issue compared to the PWM issue discussed here? I was really hopeful that the 11 would be better than my XS
Conclusion: I need 120Hz ProMotion display on all my devices.
Is this a separate issue compared to the PWM issue discussed here? I was really hopeful that the 11 would be better than my XS
My iPhone XR display is essentially the same as your iPhone 11 one I believe. And let me tell you, it’s harsh. The iPhone 8 Plus that I just traded in to buy my dad a new iPhone was absolute perfection for the eyes. It looked better than OLED and hella better than the low ppi ones they’ve got in the Xr and iPhone 11. It IS acceptable for most people and even for me. But it could be better and iPhone 7 Plus and 8 Plus show us how.
Yes there’s more than just pwm at play. Several years ago, I don’t remember exactly but I think it’s when the first ipad Retina minis were due to come out, the full sized new iPad got released first. I could not wait for the new iPad mini. And I wasn’t sure I wanted it. So I got the full sized iPad. It was supposed to have a great new display but it had a lower ppi than the new mini was going to have. I got it anyway and all the symptoms people now complain about for the new OLED displays happened to me on that damn iPad. And back then people complained the displays were too yellow or some other thing. I had the luck of getting an absolutely perfect display. But my eyes hurt and the text looked blotchy to me and I got headaches after fifteen minutes on it.
So sadly I returned it. I got the new retina mini and lived happily ever after.
I really did not want to give up my iPhone 8 Plus but I do have a Pixel 3XL. It is OLED but the display is so easy on my eyes. It’s gorgeous in the way OLED is supposed to be over LCD. And it doesn’t bother MY eyes. I can’t vouch for what it would do to someone else’s vision.
Unfortunately the Pixel 4 is going to have Face ID, which is a shame because the Pixels have the best fingerprint scanners I have ever used. But those are going away in the name of progress.
Technological advancement doesn’t look to be ushering in a vision friendly world. Maybe humanity in that new Apple TV+ show “See” all went blind from our light bulbs and smart phones.Everyone: the screen refresh rate of 60 Hz (or sometimes 120 Hz, “Pro Motion“) is not the same as the PWM backlight frequency (240 Hz, for all OLED iPhones). They are two very different things.
I also don’t understand why some of you are even entertaining the thought of using a screen with PWM. Even if it didn’t noticeably affect me, I would never use a display with PWM.
SHAME ON APPLE for continuing to use PWM in the past 3 generations of iPhones. It actually makes me upset because they are well aware of the issue. Maybe we should just ask the laborers overseas that manufacture Apple products how they feel Apple cares about human health.
At this point (year 3), it is very frustrating. Apple doesn’t care about our health because it’s the best financial move or they are stupid/negligent. We know which it is.
I also don’t understand why some of you are even entertaining the thought of using a screen with PWM. Even if it didn’t noticeably affect me, I would never use a display with PWM.
SHAME ON APPLE for continuing to use PWM in the past 3 generations of iPhones. It actually makes me upset because they are well aware of the issue. Maybe we should just ask the laborers overseas that manufacture Apple products how they feel Apple cares about human health.
At this point (year 3), it is very frustrating. Apple doesn’t care about our health because it’s the best financial move or they are stupid/negligent. We know which it is.
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If it doesn’t noticeably affect you why wouldn’t you use it? What does pwm do beyond cause eye strain and contribute to migraines in a relatively small segment of the population? Also pwm is all around us now in the lighting in public places. Old fashioned incandescent lighting is getting harder to find. Actually wasn’t it made against the law except for a few grandfathered-in uses?
Most people do not stare directly at a lightbulb for 5 hours total each day.
Aside from that, the long-term health side effects of PWM in displays is unknown.
Incandescent bulbs are against the law because of their higher energy requirements--nothing to do with achieving better health for humans.
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That doesn’t quite answer my question. What does pwm dimming actually do to people who have no visible effects from it? If they get no eye strain or headaches or anything else, why should they forgo an OLED display?
1. I am not your personal doctor/consultant/researcher/scientist, and I could not care less if I did not answer your questions.
2. PWM is a half-assed, cheaper-to-implement solution for the reduction of light output, whether it be in phone screens, household electrical switches, or wherever. Apple absolutely would have used DC dimming if they were able to figure out how to keep color consistency throughout various brightness levels. They would also use a higher frequency PWM if it didn't slightly reduce battery life.
3. Whether you notice PWM or not, it will strain your eyes more than without PWM. Humans vary slightly, but we're all alike. Some of us just notice things more than others because our normal level of discomfort/pain is less. I don't pop an ibuprofen every day to deal with stuff that is bigger than their phone's backlight dimming, but a lot of people do. Not saying you do either.
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You say the 3 last generations. Is the Xr/11 better than X/XS/11 Pro? I’m new to this, but I thought this issue was related to OLED implementations.
Edit: And what about the iPad Pro?
Edit: Thanks. I appreciate the apology. Okay let’s move along to more productive discussion...
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Last three generations:
1. iPhone X
2. iPhone XS and iPhone XS Max
3. iPhone 11 Pro and iPhone 11 Pro Max
iPhone XR and iPhone 11 do not use PWM. iPad Pro does not use PWM.
I apologize; I am just heated about realizing this was year three of this problem and the biggest company in the world isn't doing anything about it. I did not come across any new research or studies about long-term health risks of PWM. Most people don't even know it exists, which is why not many are aware it's even something that should be more closely looked at.
At the end of the day, I guess we all should remember that this is a first-world problem. I would be satisfied if Apple just added the DC dimming option as an Accessibility setting.
The non-Pro iPhone 11 does not use PWM.
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I’m getting rather confused regarding which display type is actually best for your eye health.
I understand the concern regarding PWM and I am considering an 11 with LCD for that reason.
But when searching for information on which is healthier, there are many reports saying OLED, like these.
www.bgr.in
I understand the concern regarding PWM and I am considering an 11 with LCD for that reason.
But when searching for information on which is healthier, there are many reports saying OLED, like these.
iPhone XS Max display is scientifically healthier for your eyes
Apple may have downplayed one major feature for the display of the iPhone XS and iPhone XS Max. Based on testing from Tsing-Hua University in Taiwan, it
www.cultofmac.com
Apple iPhone XS Max OLED display healthier for your eyes than LCD displays: finds study
Apple iPhone XS Max OLED display healthier for your eyes than LCD displays: finds study tech news at BGR India
www.bgr.in
That refers to harmful blue light emissions which is an entirely different subject unto itself and speaks specifically to the health of your eyeballs.I’m getting rather confused regarding which display type is actually best for your eye health.
I understand the concern regarding PWM and I am considering an 11 with LCD for that reason.
But when searching for information on which is healthier, there are many reports saying OLED, like these.
iPhone XS Max display is scientifically healthier for your eyes
Apple may have downplayed one major feature for the display of the iPhone XS and iPhone XS Max. Based on testing from Tsing-Hua University in Taiwan, itwww.cultofmac.com
Apple iPhone XS Max OLED display healthier for your eyes than LCD displays: finds study
Apple iPhone XS Max OLED display healthier for your eyes than LCD displays: finds study tech news at BGR India
With pwm, that seems to affect the part of the brain processing the information the eyeballs are taking in. As far as I know our brains are affected by blue light regarding the production of Melatonin which in turn impacts our sleep cycles. That’s why we have night modes on all latest model flagship phones from the major manufacturers. They’re trying to mitigate the effects of blue light on our sleep cycles.
11 Not (because of LCD)
11Pro of course. More people are saying it‘s the same as X/Xs
11Pro of course. More people are saying it‘s the same as X/Xs
I’m on day 2 of using the iPhone 11 Pro. I think it’s too soon to tell if I’m getting any eye strain / headaches from it. What I will say though is that @kerplunknet brings up an excellent point that we don’t have any data on long term health risks of PWM. So, for that reason I’m debating if I want to return for an 11 or go back to my 8. I just remember when I used the XR last year I felt that it was too big/heavy for me, but the 11 Pro really isn’t much smaller/lighter. I guess I’m frustrated too and just wish Apple would introduce more LCD phones or implement a DC dimming option.
Smaller 11 (non pro) would be a dream.