Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up

[now i see it]

Yes please! UK refurbished store hasn't had 8 Plus for most of the year and now they have, its only silver with high capacity storage. 😞

The 64 GB and 256 GB models were introduced on launch day 2017. The 256 GB model was discontinued in 2019 and replaced with the 128 GB model. The 64 GB model remained. They were all discontinued in 2020.

If a 256 GB model is purchased from the Apple Refurbished Store, the logic board is at - least - two years old at best and possibly four years old at worst (launch day phone).
If a 128 GB model is purchased, it’s at least 1-1/2 years old at best and two years old at worst.

The 128 GB models for the most part will have newer logic boards because they were manufactured later (if that makes any difference).

I don’t know (I actually don’t think) that they replace the lightning port in Apple refurbished iPhones since it requires a complete tear down. If the port isn’t getting replaced, then conceivably a 256 GB refurbished iPhone 8+ could have a four year old used lightning port.

From my experience, using the same phone forever, the lightning port - Does - wear out after thousands of insertions, (mine did) so that’s something to consider when contemplating a refurbished 256 GB ip8+. The port -might- have a lot of miles on it.

 

[AJTC]

As a former Apple employee, trust me when I say all feedback is read. Whether it is acted upon or followed up with, is a completely different story.

I’ve submitted it now.

I’m going back to my iPhone 11 but I worry about what phone I’ll be able to use in the future if Apple doesn’t change the PWM implementation. I wish MacRumors would post about this on the front page. It needs traction.

 

[AJAAY]

The 64 GB and 256 GB models were introduced on launch day 2017. The 256 GB model was discontinued in 2019 and replaced with the 128 GB model. The 64 GB model remained. They were all discontinued in 2020.

If a 256 GB model is purchased from the Apple Refurbished Store, the logic board is at - least - two years old at best and possibly four years old at worst (launch day phone).
If a 128 GB model is purchased, it’s at least 1-1/2 years old at best and two years old at worst.

The 128 GB models for the most part will have newer logic boards because they were manufactured later (if that makes any difference).

I don’t know (I actually don’t think) that they replace the lightning port in Apple refurbished iPhones since it requires a complete tear down. If the port isn’t getting replaced, then conceivably a 256 GB refurbished iPhone 8+ could have a four year old used lightning port.

From my experience, using the same phone forever, the lightning port - Does - wear out after thousands of insertions, (mine did) so that’s something to consider when contemplating a refurbished 256 GB ip8+. The port -might- have a lot of miles on it.

I did not know this. I got the 128gb version a week ago, because I don’t know how long I’m going to hold onto this and good to have the extra storage just in case. But the 256gb versions don’t last long in the refurb store, at most two days.

I checked the serial number on my refurb unit and it was “remanufactured” last month.

 

[happy orchard]

I wish they’d let us give a reason for the return. My return is initiated now.

You might already do this, but I usually say “I want you to please write this down somewhere I’m returning this because the phone causes me physical pain.” Nevertheless, Apple employees inevitably have no idea what I’m talking about with issues with PWM (et al). Even this past week, some were just shocked. One said, “maybe you just got a bad phone.” It’s hard to keep pushing this boulder up the hill sometimes.

 

[happy orchard]

Has anyone been able to keep it? My hope is fading fast now...

I’ve kept my 13PM so far.

 

[john g.]

So, is the jury still out on the 13 mini?
It seems to have mixed reports so far, and no definitive PWM review yet as far as I can tell.

I am sensitive to PWM but not to the degree of some people here. The X and XS phones were terrible for me, I could barely glance at them. I have been on an 11 (non Pro) with no problems. Tried a 12 mini in a Verizon store earlier this year and was unsure. It was not as bad as the X, but my eyes felt tired and difficult to fully focus after.

Took a chance and am trying out a 13 mini since launch day. Seems to be okay so far.
My eyes seem fatigued sometimes but no real focus issues. When I look at my 11 screen in comparison it is confusing.
One one hand the 11 is not as fatiguing but after looking at the 13 for a while, the text on the 11 looks burry and not sharp. So..... I think I am adjusting to the 13 mini but am going to give it a couple of more days.

 

[dimitricook]

Message to all my fellow topic friend!
Don't forget that our eyes have to adjust, if its a bit better than last year, its possible we will get used to it and be able to tolerate the screen without any problems.

I remember when i had my glasses for the first time it took 3-4 weeks to get used before i could use them without headache, he same for my samsung lcd tv with 240hz pwm.. no problems anymore after 1 month of getting used to it.

other thought: What if the type or brand of the display makes a difference and some positive commenting people have a different type of display in comparion to people commenting they had to send the 13 back ;-0

 

[jm31828]

Message to all my fellow topic friend!
Don't forget that our eyes have to adjust, if its a bit better than last year, its possible we will get used to it and be able to tolerate the screen without any problems.

I remember when i had my glasses for the first time it took 3-4 weeks to get used before i could use them without headache, he same for my samsung lcd tv with 240hz pwm.. no problems anymore after 1 month of getting used to it.

other thought: What if the type or brand of the display makes a difference and some positive commenting people have a different type of display in comparion to people commenting they had to send the 13 back ;-0

Great point! I am one who takes weeks to adjust to new glasses, and when getting a new TV or laptop- I have some eye strain or discomfort for a while until I get used to it.

Same goes with phones. I thought maybe it was PWM, but even with my 8 Plus back in the day, and then my 11 when I got it- same issues, even though those didn't have PWM.

I went to a 12 Mini last year and had some discomfort, adjusted the brightness and reduce white point settings to what I thought was best and after a month or so, I had no issues and it has been great on my eyes since.

Now I am on a 13 mini, and am having just a little discomfort- and I suspect it's the same old thing, slightly different brightness/contrast and all of that, so my eyes will need some time to adjust. Hopefully....

 

[AJTC]

For people who are having issues looking at the screen then maybe their eyes will adjust after a few weeks like with glasses.

But with migraines being so instant with the 13 I’m not willing to go through weeks of pain to get used to a phone - if I could ever get used to it at all.

Back on my 11 and it’s still a great phone. I don’t feel like I’m missing out right now. My eyes feel normal again after not using the 13 all afternoon. The migraine went away with paracetamol.

 

[super chimp]

I had a lot of issues with the screen on the X with eye strain but things have been a lot better with the 11 Pro though not completely trouble free. What is the general consensus on how does the 13 Pro screen compare to the 11 Pro when it comes to eye strain?

 

[Chele]

Message to all my fellow topic friend!
Don't forget that our eyes have to adjust, if its a bit better than last year, its possible we will get used to it and be able to tolerate the screen without any problems.

I remember when i had my glasses for the first time it took 3-4 weeks to get used before i could use them without headache, he same for my samsung lcd tv with 240hz pwm.. no problems anymore after 1 month of getting used to it.

other thought: What if the type or brand of the display makes a difference and some positive commenting people have a different type of display in comparion to people commenting they had to send the 13 back ;-0

Great point! I am one who takes weeks to adjust to new glasses, and when getting a new TV or laptop- I have some eye strain or discomfort for a while until I get used to it.

Same goes with phones. I thought maybe it was PWM, but even with my 8 Plus back in the day, and then my 11 when I got it- same issues, even though those didn't have PWM.

I went to a 12 Mini last year and had some discomfort, adjusted the brightness and reduce white point settings to what I thought was best and after a month or so, I had no issues and it has been great on my eyes since.

Now I am on a 13 mini, and am having just a little discomfort- and I suspect it's the same old thing, slightly different brightness/contrast and all of that, so my eyes will need some time to adjust. Hopefully....

Yes, I completely agree with all of this. If I were getting migraines, then yeah...I'm not going to "tough it out" and see if they'll go away. But since I'm "just" have eye strain, I'm really wondering if I'll be able to get used to it and let my eyes adjust.

I'm the person that gets new glasses and then goes back to the optical at least a dozen times within the next month to get them adjusted. The staff there are on a first name basis with me at the time. 😂 Anytime I get a new TV, my eyes hurt for a while. Even hoping over to my iPad Pro, my eyes will hurt for a bit. Because of this, I wish that Apple gave longer than a 14 return period. I totally understand why they don't but my eyes just don't adjust that fast.

 

[matthijst]

I had a lot of issues with the screen on the X with eye strain but things have been a lot better with the 11 Pro though not completely trouble free. What is the general consensus on how does the 13 Pro screen compare to the 11 Pro when it comes to eye strain?

Pulse Width Modulation: instead of sending less power to the display to change the brightness, they make it flicker between off and on.

 

[happy orchard]

For people who are having issues looking at the screen then maybe their eyes will adjust after a few weeks like with glasses.

But with migraines being so instant with the 13 I’m not willing to go through weeks of pain to get used to a phone - if I could ever get used to it at all.

Back on my 11 and it’s still a great phone. I don’t feel like I’m missing out right now. My eyes feel normal again after not using the 13 all afternoon. The migraine went away with paracetamol.

Agreed. It's good to recognize there are different degrees of reactions. If the reaction is as bad as migraines, then it's good to stay away. Happy that you can use the 11. I'm still using mine for work, and sometimes I pick it up and go man this is so nice on my eyes and brain.
Right now, I rather feel in purgatory: the 11 and 8-style are easier on my brain and eyes, but I'm feeling kinda okay with the 13PM, so do I go back to what I trust is nice to my brain and eyes or stay with the new because I love technology and trying all it can do? Sometimes the in-between is hard.
(Tangentially, caffeine sends me into anaphylactic shock, so it's easy to stay away from that; on the other hand, flour gives me crazy bad bellyaches, but sometimes I think maybe a little pain is worth having for an enchilada or biscotti.)

I hope more people keep posting about their experiences so that we can share compassion and better understand our own experiences.

 

[AJTC]

so do I go back to what I trust is nice to my brain and eyes or stay with the new because I love technology and trying all it can do?

The love of technology is what made me try the 13. I skipped the 12 even though I wanted the new design.

I’m hoping the 3rd generation SE is a repackaged 11 with an LCD screen, 5G and an A15 chip which would keep me going a few years longer until something like microLED replaces the OLED panels.

 

[DJTaurus]

The love of technology is what made me try the 13. I skipped the 12 even though I wanted the new design.

I’m hoping the 3rd generation SE is a repackaged 11 with an LCD screen, 5G and an A15 chip which would keep me going a few years longer until something like microLED replaces the OLED panels.

Are we still expecting a SE iPhone on 2022 ?

 

[dan98]

Agreed. It's good to recognize there are different degrees of reactions. If the reaction is as bad as migraines, then it's good to stay away. Happy that you can use the 11. I'm still using mine for work, and sometimes I pick it up and go man this is so nice on my eyes and brain.
Right now, I rather feel in purgatory: the 11 and 8-style are easier on my brain and eyes, but I'm feeling kinda okay with the 13PM, so do I go back to what I trust is nice to my brain and eyes or stay with the new because I love technology and trying all it can do? Sometimes the in-between is hard.
(Tangentially, caffeine sends me into anaphylactic shock, so it's easy to stay away from that; on the other hand, flour gives me crazy bad bellyaches, but sometimes I think maybe a little pain is worth having for an enchilada or biscotti.)

I hope more people keep posting about their experiences so that we can share compassion and better understand our own experiences.

Yes I agree - and think this is an important point.
If the reaction is bad enough to cause pain or extreme dizzyness in my experience it is simply not worth taking risks - in my case long-lasting (possibly even permanent) vestibular disorientation was the end result.

On the other hand, I did once have a laptop with LED PWM which gave some some slight dizziness - in the end I managed to get used to it somehow by little-and-often usage.

 

[happy orchard]

The love of technology is what made me try the 13. I skipped the 12 even though I wanted the new design.

I’m hoping the 3rd generation SE is a repackaged 11 with an LCD screen, 5G and an A15 chip which would keep me going a few years longer until something like microLED replaces the OLED panels.

I'm going to hope that with you about the next SE.

 

[AJTC]

Are we still expecting a SE iPhone on 2022 ?

There’s been consistent rumours posted on the front page this year. It’s meant to have a bigger screen and it was assumed to be a repackaged 8 Plus but I just can’t see it being anything other than an XR/11 repackage.

 

[The.Glorious.Son]

Has anyone been able to keep it? My hope is fading fast now...

I’m sending the pro back but only because I want the max. It was shaky a few days but then I was fine. Whatever changes were made seem to have been enough to fix it for me.

 

[TVTechGrl]

I’m sending the pro back but only because I want the max. It was shaky a few days but then I was fine. Whatever changes were made seem to have been enough to fix it for me.

That’s good news! The pro max is fantastic!

 

[john g.]

I am sensitive to PWM but not to the degree of some people here. The X and XS phones were terrible for me, I could barely glance at them. I have been on an 11 (non Pro) with no problems. Tried a 12 mini in a Verizon store earlier this year and was unsure. It was not as bad as the X, but my eyes felt tired and difficult to fully focus after.

Took a chance and am trying out a 13 mini since launch day. Seems to be okay so far.
My eyes seem fatigued sometimes but no real focus issues. When I look at my 11 screen in comparison it is confusing.
One one hand the 11 is not as fatiguing but after looking at the 13 for a while, the text on the 11 looks burry and not sharp. So..... I think I am adjusting to the 13 mini but am going to give it a couple of more days.

Also, I turned on Reduce Motion.

I also turned off attention aware features in the Face ID settings.

These seemed to help for me.

 

[2keane]

I have been using the iPhone 11 since release. I tried the 11 pro twice before I knew pwm was a thing and found the forum posts. Have been fine with the 11 but needed the better battery, camera.

Have been using the 13 pro since Sunday. Didn’t affect me in the store testing for 10 min or so. Soon as I started using at home in a darker environment i get a headache/eye strain same as the 11 pro.

Have been using for 3 days now and it’s like heavy eyes as soon as I look at the screen longer than a minute. Will give it to the end of the week and return if I don’t adjust. Love the phone but it’s not worth it if I feel sick.

 

[jimmy_uk]

There’s been consistent rumours posted on the front page this year. It’s meant to have a bigger screen and it was assumed to be a repackaged 8 Plus but I just can’t see it being anything other than an XR/11 repackage.

I thought the SE 3 rumours changed to it just being the same phone as current but with 5g and a new processor?

I hope not, and you would think Apple would want to end the old designs as the Mini 6 got a redesign. But ipad 9 exists so I'm not so sure at the entry level.

 

[TDDM]

The 13 Pro was alright at first, but I eventually started getting bad headaches and ended up with some nausea yesterday. I'm incredibly sensitive to flicker, so this doesn't necessarily mean the screen is bad though. I've never been more thankful for my 8 Plus, lol.

Also, I was able to use a light measurement tool to scan the 13 Pro screen and compare it to the XS Max screen, there's definitely a huge difference (especially at lower brightnesses). I'm not entirely sure how to properly interpret the results, I'll leave that to someone more educated on this stuff

If you click the images, you can scroll through and see the flicker rates at 100%, 75%, 50%, 25%, and 0% brightness.

A few caveats:
-This was taken by opening a solid white image and scanning it. The numbers do change depending on what kind of color you scan, so this isn't the complete picture.
-This doesn't take any kind of motion into account (Scrolling, UI animations, videos, etc)
-True Tone, Night Shift, White Point, any any other display accommodation was turned off on both devices.
-Not sure why the XS Max 75% Brightness pic shows no flicker frequency, I think I took the screenshot before it properly registered.

 

[now i see it]

@TDDM You should also post a screen shot of a graph taken with the light measurement tool of the 8 Plus too so we can all see how nasty these OLED screens really are in comparison