Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up

[5105973]

Wonderful news! I've felt so limited as all flagships have OLED and even cheaper Android phones.

Hope it comes soon so that I finally dare to spend more money on a phone again.

I prioritize my eye health as I'm already sensitive to light. Rarely uses maximum brightness except outdoors or in bright light. Indoors and in the evening I use very low brightness as it feels more comfortable to my eyes.

My dad bought a premium Dell laptop about a month before he passed away in January. My mom gave it to me. I hope it’s got one of these displays. I haven’t yet set it up (I can’t yet bring myself to wipe it of his stuff) but I do intend to use it since my MacBook Pro is from 2011 and my desktop is more or less taken over as a general family computer. I struggle with computer displays, too, not as bad as with iPhone displays but my desktop monitor can make my eyes water a lot. Anyway I’m hoping I got one of these displays!

 

[5105973]

I had an iPhone X for more than a year with constant migraines and tons of money and time spent trying to find out why… I switched to the iPhone 11 and saw noticeable improvement… I still get migraines but not like before. The problem is my iPhone 11 is getting painfully slow, particularly when I’m trying to open the camera to catch a memorable moment and inevitably the moment is gone by the time I can finally take a picture like 10 seconds later. I’m really hoping to get a new iPhone soon but don’t know what I’ll do if the new iPhones still have this issue. I guess I’ll probably do what you did and try one in the fall and return it within the 14 day window if it still hurts.

Wow sorry to hear that. My iPhone 11 is pretty fast. I really love it. I got it this past Christmas. Maybe yours needs trouble shooting?

It was actually my iPhone 13 Pro that I had trouble with in that way.

 

[4419867]

My dad bought a premium Dell laptop about a month before he passed away in January. My mom gave it to me. I hope it’s got one of these displays. I haven’t yet set it up (I can’t yet bring myself to wipe it of his stuff) but I do intend to use it since my MacBook Pro is from 2011 and my desktop is more or less taken over as a general family computer. I struggle with computer displays, too, not as bad as with iPhone displays but my desktop monitor can make my eyes water a lot. Anyway I’m hoping I got one of these displays!

I'm sorry about your loss. 🥺
I don't even dare to think that one day my dad will no longer exist (he actually turns 67 today 🥳).
I'm far from ready... if ever.

Back to topic. I haven't used OLED on computers (guess Dell's premium laptop has it?). However, I will buy an external monitor and a requirement is that it's certified flicker-free. Actually considering a Dell monitor (LCD Black IPS) with built-in USB hub.

I hope the laptop will work for you. 😊

 

[DJTaurus]

Good luck! I had issues with 12 mini, but 13 mini has worked out for me since October.

I had the best experience too among 13 mini, pro and regular 13. If small screen is not an issue go for the mini.

 

[5105973]

I'm sorry about your loss. 🥺
I don't even dare to think that one day my dad will no longer exist (he actually turns 67 today 🥳).
I'm far from ready... if ever.

Back to topic. I haven't used OLED on computers (guess Dell's premium laptop has it?). However, I will buy an external monitor and a requirement is that it's certified flicker-free. Actually considering a Dell monitor (LCD Black IPS) with built-in USB hub.

I hope the laptop will work for you. 😊

Thank you. I haven’t really had a chance to properly mourn my dad in the chaos of the aftermath of his very unanticipated passing. Pretty soon I’m going to have to clear his house and I know it’s going to hit me hard. Just the bit I’ve done so far has been…there are no words.

I miss him very much. Over on the Android part of the forum I always talked about how he’d help me test call quality on all my new phones. I think he was surprised at how many he had to test! 🤣 He was so happy when Apple went to Qualcomm modems. He used to get so mad at the connection with Intel modems. He would say I sounded like I was at the bottom of a well!

So, with these phones, not only did I have to worry about pwm, but they had to pass the “Dad Test” too.

I hope your dad had a very happy birthday. And may he have many many more! Your love for him touches my heart and lifts my day!

Thank you for reminding me that if the laptop display doesn’t work out for me I can hook up an external monitor. I haven’t used a laptop or really any computer in so long I forgot all my options. I’m hoping to get my life fully back in order by the end of summer and then I’m going to have a blast playing with all my technology.

 

[4419867]

Thank you. I haven’t really had a chance to properly mourn my dad in the chaos of the aftermath of his very unanticipated passing. Pretty soon I’m going to have to clear his house and I know it’s going to hit me hard. Just the bit I’ve done so far has been…there are no words.

I miss him very much. Over on the Android part of the forum I always talked about how he’d help me test call quality on all my new phones. I think he was surprised at how many he had to test! 🤣 He was so happy when Apple went to Qualcomm modems. He used to get so mad at the connection with Intel modems. He would say I sounded like I was at the bottom of a well!

So, with these phones, not only did I have to worry about pwm, but they had to pass the “Dad Test” too.

I hope your dad had a very happy birthday. And may he have many many more! Your love for him touches my heart and lifts my day!

Thank you for reminding me that if the laptop display doesn’t work out for me I can hook up an external monitor. I haven’t used a laptop or really any computer in so long I forgot all my options. I’m hoping to get my life fully back in order by the end of summer and then I’m going to have a blast playing with all my technology.

I can understand that. It must feel surreal to go through his house and possessions.

Thanks for your kind words. I hope that over time you will succeed in moving on while remembering all your fond memories together. 🥰 I'll make the most of my time with my dad whom I love dearly. 👨‍👧

Yes, sometimes you forget about external monitors. Have used laptops for several years but realized that I need a bigger and better screen than that (also neck pain of too low screen). So if the laptop screen doesn't work for you, there are always external monitors. There is a large selection as many are certified flicker-free (and low blue light). 👍

 

[ght56]

I have no idea if PWM is the culprit or not, but I've been getting headaches since around the time I got my iPhone 13 Pro. I also got a Dell XPS around this time, which has an OLED screen that flickers at 60Hz, although I stare at it much less and generally use flicker free 4K IPS displays with it. The headaches start at my eyes and shoots through the back of my head...they are an annoyance but generally not impairing. The 13 Pro is the first 120Hz device I have owned. The XPS is the first OLED device I have owned that flickers at 60 Hz (refresh rate is also 60 Hz...not sure why Samsung and Dell went this route, but frames shot at 60 FPS shows the screen visibly flickering even at 100% brightness and I REALLY regret not getting the 4K IPS). I've had a 11 Pro and X and not had issues. For that matter, obviously my MBPs also use PWM and I have never had an issue there. I also recently switched my in-ceiling lighting to dimmable LED, which, to my understanding, also flickers through the use of PWM. It does leave me wondering if perhaps all of the flickering combined may have a compilation effect.

I stare at screens for many (12+) hours each day, which probably doesn't help, but most of that time is my 16-inch MacBook Pro (which flickers at 131,700 Hz) or my flicker-free 4K IPS displays.

I'm not convinced this is PWM, or even OLED for that matter, but I am also not convinced it isn't. I'm also not convinced this isn't a sign of a bigger issue. I am convinced I am out of my depth here and that it may be time to see my primary care doctor and possibly a neurologist as I do not want to attribute this to OLED displays when there is a much bigger issue that needs treatment.

I think Apple's decision to move forward with mini and micro LED technology is probably the right decision. Whether my issue is from these OLED displays or something completely unrelated, it's clear OLED has quite a few downsides and I think Apple is well aware of this. I'll definitely look forward to a mini or micro LED iPhone.

I wanted to follow up on my initial post, in case it is of help to others.

PWM and/or OLED brightness was not the underlying cause of the issue I was having, and rather the tendency of OLEDs to cause eye strain seems to have made existing eye conditions I have/had more problematic.

I went to a REALLY good eye doctor. I was diagnosed with two things that no eye doctor to date had ever diagnosed. The first is MGD, or Meibomian Gland Dysfunction, which is a cause of tear film instability and hence dry eyes. It is closely linked with frequent computer use, eye strain, and contacts, which I wore. The second is a very mild case of amblyopia, which is linked with headaches. I also had astigmatism, which is linked with eye strain and headaches. The combination of these factors were what was causing me a lot of issues. OLEDs seem to have further inflamed things.

I was able to get the MGD under control by doing about 8 different things. Then I underwent a permanent vision correction procedure called ReLEX SMILE, which is effectively a less invasive alternative to LASIK that has some pretty significant benefits for those with dry eye issues. This procedure permanently removed my astigmatism.

This seems to have fixed things for me.

FWIW and IMHO, if PWM seems to be causing an issue, if you haven't already, it's definitely good to be sure there isn't something else at play (and something that might be very fixable, for that matter), whether it be eye issues or something else.

 

[jimmy_uk]

Apple display supplier could lose out on large iPhone 14 order after it was reportedly caught cutting corners

"Samsung will likely produce the 6.1 and 6.7-inch displays for the upcoming iPhone 14 Pro, while LG is set to make the 6.7-inch display for the iPhone 14 Pro Max."

So gotta buy a 14 Pro Max (LG) and a 14 6.7 (Samsung) to hedge my bets on which screen might work out regarding PWM this year.

Last chance Apple.....

 

[5105973]

I wanted to follow up on my initial post, in case it is of help to others.

PWM and/or OLED brightness was not the underlying cause of the issue I was having, and rather the tendency of OLEDs to cause eye strain seems to have made existing eye conditions I have/had more problematic.

I went to a REALLY good eye doctor. I was diagnosed with two things that no eye doctor to date had ever diagnosed. The first is MGD, or Meibomian Gland Dysfunction, which is a cause of tear film instability and hence dry eyes. It is closely linked with frequent computer use, eye strain, and contacts, which I wore. The second is a very mild case of amblyopia, which is linked with headaches. I also had astigmatism, which is linked with eye strain and headaches. The combination of these factors were what was causing me a lot of issues. OLEDs seem to have further inflamed things.

I was able to get the MGD under control by doing about 8 different things. Then I underwent a permanent vision correction procedure called ReLEX SMILE, which is effectively a less invasive alternative to LASIK that has some pretty significant benefits for those with dry eye issues. This procedure permanently removed my astigmatism.

This seems to have fixed things for me.

FWIW and IMHO, if PWM seems to be causing an issue, if you haven't already, it's definitely good to be sure there isn't something else at play (and something that might be very fixable, for that matter), whether it be eye issues or something else.

Oh wow, thank you so much for sharing this. I wonder if we can get your post stickied somewhere.

I was told several years ago I had a slight astigmatism. It was in one eye and was not enough to bother correcting and would be hard to correct. Then it was never mentioned again. I don’t even remember which eye. Compared to my dad’s astigmatism, which he once described to me, I indeed had no cause to pay much heed to mine. I can’t tell I have it.

And I definitely do battle with dry eyes. It’s not as severe as with some people I know but it’s enough of a problem that I can’t wear contact lenses anymore and haven’t been able to going on 18 years now. I use drops now. I’ll be more diligent about using them and see how it goes.

I know something’s not great because I’m prone to getting chalazion. They’re little lumps from blocked ducts in the lid. I have autoimmune disease that flares up my joints and skin. Eyelids. It manifests all sorts of ways to make me miserable. I never made any connection to the pwm and migraines before. Interesting.

Thank you. I’ll add this information to help me track all the factors that might play into my bad reactions to pwm.

 

[asus389]

I’m curious, if astigmatism was causing this issue wouldn’t wearing glasses that correct for astigmatism solve it? What about those of us who already have astigmatism correction?

 

[Howyalikdemapls]

I wanted to follow up on my initial post, in case it is of help to others.

PWM and/or OLED brightness was not the underlying cause of the issue I was having, and rather the tendency of OLEDs to cause eye strain seems to have made existing eye conditions I have/had more problematic.

I went to a REALLY good eye doctor. I was diagnosed with two things that no eye doctor to date had ever diagnosed. The first is MGD, or Meibomian Gland Dysfunction, which is a cause of tear film instability and hence dry eyes. It is closely linked with frequent computer use, eye strain, and contacts, which I wore. The second is a very mild case of amblyopia, which is linked with headaches. I also had astigmatism, which is linked with eye strain and headaches. The combination of these factors were what was causing me a lot of issues. OLEDs seem to have further inflamed things.

I was able to get the MGD under control by doing about 8 different things. Then I underwent a permanent vision correction procedure called ReLEX SMILE, which is effectively a less invasive alternative to LASIK that has some pretty significant benefits for those with dry eye issues. This procedure permanently removed my astigmatism.

This seems to have fixed things for me.

FWIW and IMHO, if PWM seems to be causing an issue, if you haven't already, it's definitely good to be sure there isn't something else at play (and something that might be very fixable, for that matter), whether it be eye issues or something else.

What are some of the things you did for the MGD? It’s unlikely I have that, but I do have eye issues and I wonder if some of the things you did could help me. I’ve been using Restasis for a couple of years. My pupils are abnormally large which has caused issues ever since I had LASIK, so I use Alphagan (brimotidine tartrate) before I drive when it’s dark outside (once or twice a day, in the early morning and/or late at night). I sometimes wonder if using the Alphagan helps avoid eye strain but I can’t say definitively. I’d love to hear your thoughts and if you have any recommendations of things to try.

 

[4419867]

I wanted to follow up on my initial post, in case it is of help to others.

PWM and/or OLED brightness was not the underlying cause of the issue I was having, and rather the tendency of OLEDs to cause eye strain seems to have made existing eye conditions I have/had more problematic.

I went to a REALLY good eye doctor. I was diagnosed with two things that no eye doctor to date had ever diagnosed. The first is MGD, or Meibomian Gland Dysfunction, which is a cause of tear film instability and hence dry eyes. It is closely linked with frequent computer use, eye strain, and contacts, which I wore. The second is a very mild case of amblyopia, which is linked with headaches. I also had astigmatism, which is linked with eye strain and headaches. The combination of these factors were what was causing me a lot of issues. OLEDs seem to have further inflamed things.

I was able to get the MGD under control by doing about 8 different things. Then I underwent a permanent vision correction procedure called ReLEX SMILE, which is effectively a less invasive alternative to LASIK that has some pretty significant benefits for those with dry eye issues. This procedure permanently removed my astigmatism.

This seems to have fixed things for me.

FWIW and IMHO, if PWM seems to be causing an issue, if you haven't already, it's definitely good to be sure there isn't something else at play (and something that might be very fixable, for that matter), whether it be eye issues or something else.

I understand that you can have other underlying eye problems, but it's still not healthy for the eyes to be exposed to flicker - not even for those who claim to not notice it.

It should be a high priority for companies if they care about eye health, which they don't. In the past, we also had inferior monitors, but today it's standard for monitors to be flicker-free (and low blue light).

I refuse to buy an OLED phone until they have fixed it.

 

[The.Glorious.Son]

It’s just disappointing all around to fall into this category. I used to be an annual adopter on release day and lived for the unveilings in Sept. Granted, as these phones have really matured, I may have moved to an every-other-year approach but regardless, the OLED panels have killed my passion and enthusiasm for phones. Maybe it’s for the better? Who knows, but something tells me I’ll be on this 11 for years to come. Maybe I’m pessimistic, but there is nothing that leads me to believe the 14 series will change things. And the moment I get the strain or headaches, I’m done. I’m not one to try 50 tweaks or monitor the severity of my symptoms every day. For me, it’s symptom free or bust. Kinda miss being a phone enthusiast.

 

[cooperbang]

I hope Apple will use OLED Displays with high PWM frequency soon.
BOE produces displays with 1920Hz PWM.

Look here:

BOE announced the mass production of f-OLED LTPO variable frequency display

BOE announced that the f-OLED LTPO variable frequency display has achieved mass production. Recently, BOE (BOE) has developed a leading mass-produced

technology.followthistrendingworld.com

The 1920Hz ultra-high frequency PWM dimming mode on the LTPO screen can reduce the potential damage to the eyes from the screen flicker in the dark environment; in addition, this f-OLED LTPO frequency conversion display is also equipped with BOE (BOE) flexible OLED low blue light technology, effectively reducing the proportion of harmful blue light generated by the screen, healthy display, and better eye protection.

 

[The.Glorious.Son]

I hope Apple will use OLED Displays with high PWM frequency soon.
BOE produces displays with 1920Hz PWM.

Look here:

BOE announced the mass production of f-OLED LTPO variable frequency display

BOE announced that the f-OLED LTPO variable frequency display has achieved mass production. Recently, BOE (BOE) has developed a leading mass-produced

technology.followthistrendingworld.com

Nice to see articles starting to openly address eye health in connection with PWM.

 

[Roadstar]

I hope Apple will use OLED Displays with high PWM frequency soon.
BOE produces displays with 1920Hz PWM.

Look here:

BOE announced the mass production of f-OLED LTPO variable frequency display

BOE announced that the f-OLED LTPO variable frequency display has achieved mass production. Recently, BOE (BOE) has developed a leading mass-produced

technology.followthistrendingworld.com

Unfortunately it doesn't seem like Apple will be ordering BOE components anytime soon: https://www.macrumors.com/2022/05/04/apple-drops-boe-displays-after-design-changes/

 

[cooperbang]

Samsung has flicker-free OLEDs too - but only for Laptops and not for Smartphones apparently.

They actually are promoting it:

Seems like they are aware of the flicker problem… Hopefully Samsung and LG will follow BOE with flicker-free Smartphone displays soon.

 

[miniyou64]

Most people don’t need an eye procedure. The problem is not your eyes. It’s the displays.

 

[cooperbang]

Most people don’t need an eye procedure. The problem is not your eyes. It’s the displays.

Certainly. On most current OLED phones you can actually see a stroboscopic effect (especially at lower brightness levels) if you move your finger (or a pencil) very fast in front of the display.

 

[RoadWarrior56]

I used an iPhone Xs for 3 years and now use an iPhone 13 Mini. I have had no eyestrain problem with either display, and both screens look or looked great to me. In my case, I got instant headaches and eyestrain from an iPad Mini 6, which I had to quickly return due to that issue. I presume the effects on eyes for these various displays differs from individual to individual. I am in my 60's and (obviously) not a young person. And your eyes do get more sensitive as you get older, as I write that from experience.

 

[cooperbang]

I used an iPhone Xs for 3 years and now use an iPhone 13 Mini. I have had no eyestrain problem with either display, and both screens look or looked great to me. In my case, I got instant headaches and eyestrain from an iPad Mini 6, which I had to quickly return due to that issue. I presume the effects on eyes for these various displays differs from individual to individual. I am in my 60's and (obviously) not a young person. And your eyes do get more sensitive as you get older, as I write that from experience.

If you have problems with the iPad Mini 6 it´s not because of PWM. It doesn´t use PWM (respectively only at a very high frequency of 178600Hz). I think you are not sensitive to PWM flickering generally. So I think something different is your problem with the iPad Mini 6.

Maybe you have a problem with the iPad Minis jelly scroll effect.

 

[MICHAELSD]

I do have to admit that my brain is still recovering from the time I spent with iPhone 13 Mini with residual migraines and headaches.

If iPhone X and iPhone 12 Pro Max are any indication then it will likely take an almost equivalent amount of time to recover.

Yes, I am confident in my experience with past OLED iPhones that these headaches are caused by the display and my nervous system trying perhaps a little too hard to adjust.

 

[ghanwani]

I do have to admit that my brain is still recovering from the time I spent with iPhone 13 Mini with residual migraines and headaches.

If iPhone X and iPhone 12 Pro Max are any indication then it will likely take an almost equivalent amount of time to recover.

Yes, I am confident in my experience with past OLED iPhones that these headaches are caused by the display and my nervous system trying perhaps a little too hard to adjust.

What are you using now?

 

[MICHAELSD]

What are you using now?

iPhone SE third-generation.

It’s better than expected once accustomed to it, and I’m glad I upgraded from the 8+ to the latest iPhone SE generations.

However, I do still get the migraines and headaches I experienced with iPhone 13 Mini at times randomly throughout the day. This also occurred when I stopped using iPhone X for a matter of months as well as iPhone 12 Pro Max, so I can isolate it to the phone. Unfortunately, I should really hold off until there’s a flicker-free OLED.

 

[ghanwani]

iPhone SE third-generation.

It’s better than expected once accustomed to it, and I’m glad I upgraded from the 8+ to the latest iPhone SE generations.

However, I do still get the migraines and headaches I experienced with iPhone 13 Mini at times randomly throughout the day. This also occurred when I stopped using iPhone X for a matter of months as well as iPhone 12 Pro Max, so I can isolate it to the phone. Unfortunately, I should really hold off until there’s a flicker-free OLED.

That's what I'm using too after iPhone 13 Mini didn't work for me.