Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up

[pwm away]

Hi everyone!

New forum member here, but have been checking this thread regularly, as I also have issues with OLED screens (currently using an iPhone 11).

I recently bought a Radex Lupin, which measures light, brightness, and flicker ratio; I had come across that device on a few blogs, as well as some Youtube videos where the reviewers would use it to measure the flicker ratio, so I decided to get one to have it ready to test an LED light source.

If anyone is interested, it's available on Amazon, but not cheap! -> Radex Lupin

A few months ago I decided to go to an Apple Store and use the meter on all the phones they had there; the below table has a breakdown of what the meter's flicker ratio output was for each.

Table explanation: Breakdown by model across brightness levels, as well as Reduce White Point levels

Model	100%	75%	50%	25%	0%	RWP 25%	RWP 50%	RWP 75%	RWP 100%
iPhone 11	0.75%	0.75%	0.75%	0.75%	0.75%	0.75%	0.75%	0.75%	0.75%
iPhone 12	4.7%	5.68%	7.57%	18.9%	30.7%	5.08%	5.67%	7.07%	18.8%
iPhone 12 Mini	7.01%	7.84%	9.11%	11.3%	26.5%	7.28%	7.7%	8.77%	16.6%
iPhone 13	5.01%	8.97%	9.47%	10.4%	17%	4.69%	4.86%	5.75%	12.5%
iPhone 13 Mini	3.87%	7.83%	9.5%	16%	14%	4.02%	4.2%	5.14%	12.1%
iPhone 13 Pro	12.1%	14.2%	15.6%	17.3%	25.6%	12.6%
iPhone 13 Pro Max	12.1%	13.6%	15.7%	17.9%	25.3%	12.7%	13.4%	15%	21.4%
iPhone SE (2022)	0.75%	0.75%	0.75%	0.75%	0.75%	0.75%	0.75%	0.75%	0.75%

I found the above interesting, as it looks like the Pro models are quite bad (presumably due to ProMotion), and the standard models have a significantly reduced flicker ratio compared to previous iPhones (for comparison, even though it's not included in the table, my partner's iPhone XS gives a result of ~60%+ at 100% brightness).

Last year, when the iPhone 13s came out, I tried the 13 Pro Max, and while it was much better than a XS, it still didn't quite feel all right, so I didn't keep it.

I'd love to hear from anyone who has or has tried the 13 or 13 Mini ... these should be better suited to us PWM sufferers ... and by the same logic, even though I haven't had a chance to test it with the meter, the iPhone 14 or 14 Plus may be better suited than the iPhone 14 Pro or Pro Max. Once I get the chance, I plan to test all 4 phones with the meter.

As a side note, I've also used the meter to test monitors and LED lights.

---

According to the meter manufacturer's manual, the flicker ratio measurement is defined as follows:

PulsationRate of flickering (pulsation ratio) indicates how much the illuminance or brightness change in a given amount of time. It is measured as the difference between the median value vs highs and lows. Rr = (Emax - Emin)/2*Eav*100%. Unit of measurement is a percentage (%). The only pulsations that should be controlled or adjusted are 300Hz or lower. Depending on the work type, the light flickering should not strain the eyes if it does not exceed 10% for visually-focused tasks, and is not higher than 20% for all other tasks. The office monitor should not flicker more than 5%

 

[happy orchard]

Just a thought: wonder if the slightly better frequency on the 14P vs PM is enough? I’ve been using the PM; anybody trying the Pro?

My boyfriend got the Pro, so maybe I’ll see if I find his any better. 🤔

 

[happy orchard]

This number is also for 14 plus or only 14 ?

I wondered that, too.

 

[ignaciobarrena]

Hi everyone!

New forum member here, but have been checking this thread regularly, as I also have issues with OLED screens (currently using an iPhone 11).

I recently bought a Radex Lupin, which measures light, brightness, and flicker ratio; I had come across that device on a few blogs, as well as some Youtube videos where the reviewers would use it to measure the flicker ratio, so I decided to get one to have it ready to test an LED light source.

If anyone is interested, it's available on Amazon, but not cheap! -> Radex Lupin

A few months ago I decided to go to an Apple Store and use the meter on all the phones they had there; the below table has a breakdown of what the meter's flicker ratio output was for each.

Table explanation: Breakdown by model across brightness levels, as well as Reduce White Point levels

Model	100%	75%	50%	25%	0%	RWP 25%	RWP 50%	RWP 75%	RWP 100%
iPhone 11	0.75%	0.75%	0.75%	0.75%	0.75%	0.75%	0.75%	0.75%	0.75%
iPhone 12	4.7%	5.68%	7.57%	18.9%	30.7%	5.08%	5.67%	7.07%	18.8%
iPhone 12 Mini	7.01%	7.84%	9.11%	11.3%	26.5%	7.28%	7.7%	8.77%	16.6%
iPhone 13	5.01%	8.97%	9.47%	10.4%	17%	4.69%	4.86%	5.75%	12.5%
iPhone 13 Mini	3.87%	7.83%	9.5%	16%	14%	4.02%	4.2%	5.14%	12.1%
iPhone 13 Pro	12.1%	14.2%	15.6%	17.3%	25.6%	12.6%
iPhone 13 Pro Max	12.1%	13.6%	15.7%	17.9%	25.3%	12.7%	13.4%	15%	21.4%
iPhone SE (2022)	0.75%	0.75%	0.75%	0.75%	0.75%	0.75%	0.75%	0.75%	0.75%

I found the above interesting, as it looks like the Pro models are quite bad (presumably due to ProMotion), and the standard models have a significantly reduced flicker ratio compared to previous iPhones (for comparison, even though it's not included in the table, my partner's iPhone XS gives a result of ~60%+ at 100% brightness).

Last year, when the iPhone 13s came out, I tried the 13 Pro Max, and while it was much better than a XS, it still didn't quite feel all right, so I didn't keep it.

I'd love to hear from anyone who has or has tried the 13 or 13 Mini ... these should be better suited to us PWM sufferers ... and by the same logic, even though I haven't had a chance to test it with the meter, the iPhone 14 or 14 Plus may be better suited than the iPhone 14 Pro or Pro Max. Once I get the chance, I plan to test all 4 phones with the meter.

As a side note, I've also used the meter to test monitors and LED lights.

---

According to the meter manufacturer's manual, the flicker ratio measurement is defined as follows:

Thanks for this, this might be the most helpful post of this thread.

Let's hope you can get measurements of the 14 Pro!

PD: You have an Steam Deck? I'm getting eye strain and it's an LCD panel, it would be awesome to measure the flicker with the Lupin.

 

[JM]

I would not get too caught up on 5G. 5G, so far, has been a painful experience for me. It has been very inconsistent in terms of availability and speed. I have also seen frequent dropped calls -- this never happened with my non-5G iPhones. I'm in a major metro area with Verizon for service.

🫣 Verizon is crapping the bed right now. I have it too.

 

[pwm away]

Let's hope you can get measurements of the 14 Pro!

In a few weeks, as I'm currently on holidays (I should have had the foresight of the Apple event occurring during the holiday, and taking the Radex with me).

PD: You have an Steam Deck? I'm getting eye strain and it's an LCD panel, it would be awesome to measure the flicker with the Lupin.

Unfortunately not; and I don't think they're available in the store, otherwise I'd be happy to go past and test.

 

[AJTC]

I think my migraine this afternoon is from the 14 Pro. A kind of nagging tension at my temples and a weird sensation behind my eyes. Now my eyes are going blurry looking at the screen.

This is just making me sad because I love this phone.

I don’t know whether to keep trying for another few days, try but a regular 14 or just go back to my 11.

 

[JM]

Hi everyone!

New forum member here, but have been checking this thread regularly, as I also have issues with OLED screens (currently using an iPhone 11).

I recently bought a Radex Lupin, which measures light, brightness, and flicker ratio; I had come across that device on a few blogs, as well as some Youtube videos where the reviewers would use it to measure the flicker ratio, so I decided to get one to have it ready to test an LED light source.

If anyone is interested, it's available on Amazon, but not cheap! -> Radex Lupin

A few months ago I decided to go to an Apple Store and use the meter on all the phones they had there; the below table has a breakdown of what the meter's flicker ratio output was for each.

Table explanation: Breakdown by model across brightness levels, as well as Reduce White Point levels

Model	100%	75%	50%	25%	0%	RWP 25%	RWP 50%	RWP 75%	RWP 100%
iPhone 11	0.75%	0.75%	0.75%	0.75%	0.75%	0.75%	0.75%	0.75%	0.75%
iPhone 12	4.7%	5.68%	7.57%	18.9%	30.7%	5.08%	5.67%	7.07%	18.8%
iPhone 12 Mini	7.01%	7.84%	9.11%	11.3%	26.5%	7.28%	7.7%	8.77%	16.6%
iPhone 13	5.01%	8.97%	9.47%	10.4%	17%	4.69%	4.86%	5.75%	12.5%
iPhone 13 Mini	3.87%	7.83%	9.5%	16%	14%	4.02%	4.2%	5.14%	12.1%
iPhone 13 Pro	12.1%	14.2%	15.6%	17.3%	25.6%	12.6%
iPhone 13 Pro Max	12.1%	13.6%	15.7%	17.9%	25.3%	12.7%	13.4%	15%	21.4%
iPhone SE (2022)	0.75%	0.75%	0.75%	0.75%	0.75%	0.75%	0.75%	0.75%	0.75%

I found the above interesting, as it looks like the Pro models are quite bad (presumably due to ProMotion), and the standard models have a significantly reduced flicker ratio compared to previous iPhones (for comparison, even though it's not included in the table, my partner's iPhone XS gives a result of ~60%+ at 100% brightness).

Last year, when the iPhone 13s came out, I tried the 13 Pro Max, and while it was much better than a XS, it still didn't quite feel all right, so I didn't keep it.

I'd love to hear from anyone who has or has tried the 13 or 13 Mini ... these should be better suited to us PWM sufferers ... and by the same logic, even though I haven't had a chance to test it with the meter, the iPhone 14 or 14 Plus may be better suited than the iPhone 14 Pro or Pro Max. Once I get the chance, I plan to test all 4 phones with the meter.

As a side note, I've also used the meter to test monitors and LED lights.

---

According to the meter manufacturer's manual, the flicker ratio measurement is defined as follows:

I had issues with 12 mini, but the 13mini caused mild discomfort, and I got over it in a few weeks. I have an 11pro now, and it’s the same way (I don’t notice anything almost always).

 

[AJTC]

Just a thought: wonder if the slightly better frequency on the 14P vs PM is enough? I’ve been using the PM; anybody trying the Pro?

My boyfriend got the Pro, so maybe I’ll see if I find his any better. 🤔

I got the Pro and it doesn’t look good based on my post above.

 

[dstow]

This thread has quickly taken a turn for the worst - We need a verified PWM test of the iPhone 14 vanilla now that reports are coming out it ironically has the highest PWM rate - I would have assumed Apple just recycled the iPhone 13 displays from last year, however if these reports are to believed, the iPhone 14 might be the golden goose

 

[pwm away]

I had issues with 12 mini, but the 13mini caused mild discomfort, and I got over it in a few weeks. I have an 11pro now, and it’s the same way (I don’t notice anything almost always).

I didn't get the chance to find an iPhone 11 Pro anywhere, unfortunately, but it sounds like it may have similar meter results to the 13 Mini, based on your experience.

 

[happy orchard]

I think my migraine this afternoon is from the 14 Pro. A kind of nagging tension at my temples and a weird sensation behind my eyes. Now my eyes are going blurry looking at the screen.

This is just making me sad because I love this phone.

I don’t know whether to keep trying for another few days, try but a regular 14 or just go back to my 11.

Just the thought of trying other phones sounds exhausting to me. This morning I've already thought:

Just keep using the 14PM, I'll probably get used to it....

Go back to the 11....

Maybe I could try a 14, let's see if I could pick one up, should I wait until/if I turn the 14PM...

Well if I went 14, I'd go Plus, and then I have to wait a few weeks...

Or maybe 14Pro isn't as bad as the 14PM, maybe I play on my boyfriend's...

Crap, I'm exhausted, I just want to go back to the 11. I never had to deal with any of this there. I just used it and lived my life.

 

[happy orchard]

I got the Pro and it doesn’t look good based on my post above.

Yeah I just read your post. Okay, so that's one option off the table. That almost feels better. 🤨

 

[happy orchard]

This thread has quickly taken a turn for the worst - We need a verified PWM test of the iPhone 14 vanilla now that reports are coming out it ironically has the highest PWM rate - I would have assumed Apple just recycled the iPhone 13 displays from last year, however if these reports are to believed, the iPhone 14 might be the golden goose

Think I'd even be happy with a silver goose.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Like others here, I woke up with a nasty migraine and now even feel like some motion sickness using this iPhone 14 Pro Max.

Suffice to say Apple still needs to do more to address this for PWM-sensitive users.

I do feel that we’re largely neglected, as it should be possible to incorporate a DC dimming mode with pulsations under 1%. Even if it’s just an Accessibility option with five brightness levels, which I’ve suggested.

Apple Watch’s OLED display causes no issues since its amplitudes are so low. I’ve had the best experience with iPhone 13 Mini, but that also caused constant headaches at times.

We may have more of a chance with iPhone 14 or iPhone 14 Pro if the rates are higher, but the question is if it’s worth this constant battle where the best case scenario is that we might just barely be able to use them.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Hi everyone!

New forum member here, but have been checking this thread regularly, as I also have issues with OLED screens (currently using an iPhone 11).

I recently bought a Radex Lupin, which measures light, brightness, and flicker ratio; I had come across that device on a few blogs, as well as some Youtube videos where the reviewers would use it to measure the flicker ratio, so I decided to get one to have it ready to test an LED light source.

If anyone is interested, it's available on Amazon, but not cheap! -> Radex Lupin

A few months ago I decided to go to an Apple Store and use the meter on all the phones they had there; the below table has a breakdown of what the meter's flicker ratio output was for each.

Table explanation: Breakdown by model across brightness levels, as well as Reduce White Point levels

Model	100%	75%	50%	25%	0%	RWP 25%	RWP 50%	RWP 75%	RWP 100%
iPhone 11	0.75%	0.75%	0.75%	0.75%	0.75%	0.75%	0.75%	0.75%	0.75%
iPhone 12	4.7%	5.68%	7.57%	18.9%	30.7%	5.08%	5.67%	7.07%	18.8%
iPhone 12 Mini	7.01%	7.84%	9.11%	11.3%	26.5%	7.28%	7.7%	8.77%	16.6%
iPhone 13	5.01%	8.97%	9.47%	10.4%	17%	4.69%	4.86%	5.75%	12.5%
iPhone 13 Mini	3.87%	7.83%	9.5%	16%	14%	4.02%	4.2%	5.14%	12.1%
iPhone 13 Pro	12.1%	14.2%	15.6%	17.3%	25.6%	12.6%
iPhone 13 Pro Max	12.1%	13.6%	15.7%	17.9%	25.3%	12.7%	13.4%	15%	21.4%
iPhone SE (2022)	0.75%	0.75%	0.75%	0.75%	0.75%	0.75%	0.75%	0.75%	0.75%

I found the above interesting, as it looks like the Pro models are quite bad (presumably due to ProMotion), and the standard models have a significantly reduced flicker ratio compared to previous iPhones (for comparison, even though it's not included in the table, my partner's iPhone XS gives a result of ~60%+ at 100% brightness).

Last year, when the iPhone 13s came out, I tried the 13 Pro Max, and while it was much better than a XS, it still didn't quite feel all right, so I didn't keep it.

I'd love to hear from anyone who has or has tried the 13 or 13 Mini ... these should be better suited to us PWM sufferers ... and by the same logic, even though I haven't had a chance to test it with the meter, the iPhone 14 or 14 Plus may be better suited than the iPhone 14 Pro or Pro Max. Once I get the chance, I plan to test all 4 phones with the meter.

As a side note, I've also used the meter to test monitors and LED lights.

---

According to the meter manufacturer's manual, the flicker ratio measurement is defined as follows:

Confirmed that iPhone 13 Mini is the best OLED display, even in terms of color and sharpness IMHO, that Apple has ever shipped. Unfortunately, it still wasn’t quite enough for me to comfortably keep it.

@pwm away Are the Reduce White Point levels measured with the brightness at 100%?

 

[happy orchard]

Confirmed that iPhone 13 Mini is the best OLED display, even in terms of color and sharpness IMHO, that Apple has ever shipped. Unfortunately, it still wasn’t quite enough for me to comfortably keep it.

You make a good point. Think we need to be clear on if we're saying something is the best of the bad? While sometimes we have to choose the best of the bad, this doesn't feel like it needs to be one of those times. I would like to exhaust 'good' possibilities before I move on to picking the best of the bad.

 

[MICHAELSD]

You make a good point. Think we need to be clear on if we're saying something is the best of the bad? While sometimes, we have to choose the best of the bad, this doesn't feel like it needs to be one of them. I would like to exhaust 'good' possibilities before I move on to picking the best of the bad.

The only “good” options are iPhone 11 or iPhone SE third-generation, unless there’s some drastic DC dimming implementation on at least one iPhone 14 model.

Both of those will feel laughably dated to somebody that’s used to the newer iPhones, but I do have to say that the display on the latest iPhone SE is quite nice and extremely comfortable to stare at.

 

[happy orchard]

The only “good” options are iPhone 11 or iPhone SE third-generation, unless there’s some drastic DC dimming implementation on at least one iPhone 14 model.

Both of those will feel laughably dated to somebody that’s used to the newer iPhones, but I do have to say that the display on the latest iPhone SE is quite nice and extremely comfortable to stare at.

I agree.

Part of me wants to decide quickly about the 14PM so that if I don’t keep it, it doesn’t ruin the 11 for me.

That screen is just like looking at my hand or a book, doesn’t feel like it registers as an electronic device in my brain (in a good way.)

 

[MICHAELSD]

I agree.

Part of me wants to decide quickly about the 14PM so that if I don’t keep it, it doesn’t ruin the 11 for me.

That screen is just like looking at my hand or a book, doesn’t feel like it registers as an electronic device in my brain (in a good way.)

That’s how it should be and how Apple prioritized display development for decades. I think this trend of PWM is potentially dangerous and creating displays that are uncomfortable to stare at. Unfortunately, it seems like a majority of users don’t experience it the way that we do.

 

[happy orchard]

Using this 14PM outside is better.

I have Reduce White Point OFF and brightness at 100%.

Anybody else?

 

[5105973]

Also, I just started using this phone this morning. I’m fresh right, but I’m experiencing something that I wonder if others have:

It’s like a tension or uncomfortable vibration in my neck and chest, all the way down to my intestines. My neck feels tight. It’s not pain exactly, but like all my tissue is squeezing in a trembling, uncomfortable way. ...…?

Does anybody else have that???

I had something keenly resembling that but before I got the phone. I’ve had a very strange illness all week and so did some of my family. We tested negative for Covid. It was a lot of digestive upset and weird pains.

My husband’s coworkers who are doing work from home also got sick.

The day before my iPhone was due I had ecruciating stomach pain with nerve pain radiating up and down my neck and going to my stomach. I don’t really know how I managed to do everything I did that day and stay cheerful. I didn’t mention it because there was so much happiness and excitement on the forums the last few days and I didn’t want to suddenly put that out there.

But I’m glad you’re mentioning it because yeah, what the hell?

And yeah I had the neck feel tight and the trembling and squeezing feeling. But I was not on any OLED at the time. I have no idea what this was. So I was shocked to see your post. My stomach still hurts. I can’t say you and I have the same thing but I’m not sure it’s related to technology unless 5g is starting to fry us like some people say. I say that tongue in cheek of course. My iPad doesn’t have cellular at all. I still don’t feel back to normal but it’s still whatever this illness was and not anything related to the 14 Pro Max.

I’m doing okay eyes-wise on it so far. I can feel some affects. I’ll wait and see if there are any headaches that don’t respond to aspirin and Tylenol. That’s what my 13 Pro did to me last year. So far, so good, but it can take a few days.

Well, I’m about to fetch my mom to her party. I’ll catch up with everyone later.

 

[Howyalikdemapls]

Duuuude. Worst migraine ever. I’m like 95% sure this phone is going back despite how much I love it. I have like zero patience right now with my kids’ screaming. I’m irritable and snapping at my kids and sister… I can’t be like this for the next couple of years.

I was recording my daughter’s first soccer game so basically 100% brightness outdoors all morning but it can’t just be coincidence my head hurts this bad.

Edit: 14PM

 

[DJTaurus]

Ok guys open

Duuuude. Worst migraine ever. I’m like 95% sure this phone is going back despite how much I love it. Zero patience. I’m irritable and snapping at my kids and sister… I can’t be like this for the next couple of years.

I was recording my daughter’s first soccer game so basically 100% brightness outdoors all morning but it can’t just be coincidence my head hurts this bad.

14 or 14 pro ?

 

[iCantSee]

Meh, summing all this up seems like it’s basically same old.