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Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up
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Will probably hear back again today. If there is a resolution I’d expect it soon.
I told them about the MacRumors thread but I’ll email a link if they need more validation. There are other similar support cases so it would help if more people contact Apple support so they can know it’s not totally isolated.
Anyway, I’ll be on a trip this week so I’ll report back Thursday or Friday. Should likely have an outcome by then.
So I have a good news-bad news thing here. TLDR: They're aware of it, but it's looking unlikely that we'll get a fix unless they can figure a way to address it through software
Anyway,
I posted a while back how I was able to talk with a higher up, and she had said she would bring it up with the engineers at the meeting during the week.
Today, I thought I'd give her a call just to see if anything came of it. She said she did bring it up, and they were taking it seriously (That's the good news. We now know for sure that they aren't just blowing us off), but one of the engineers had said it's basically a hardware thing and they aren't sure if there's a way to address it with a software fix. I asked her personal opinion on if there would ever possibly be a software fix, and she said it's possible, but didn't seem confident.
Overall, I'm glad they're taking it seriously, but I'm not expecting anything software wise. I'm very interested in what they say to michaelsd, maybe we'll hear a different story or get some more insight into their plans.
Anyway,
I posted a while back how I was able to talk with a higher up, and she had said she would bring it up with the engineers at the meeting during the week.
Today, I thought I'd give her a call just to see if anything came of it. She said she did bring it up, and they were taking it seriously (That's the good news. We now know for sure that they aren't just blowing us off), but one of the engineers had said it's basically a hardware thing and they aren't sure if there's a way to address it with a software fix. I asked her personal opinion on if there would ever possibly be a software fix, and she said it's possible, but didn't seem confident.
Overall, I'm glad they're taking it seriously, but I'm not expecting anything software wise. I'm very interested in what they say to michaelsd, maybe we'll hear a different story or get some more insight into their plans.
I don't think it's surprising at all that there is probably no firmware solution. People simply don't design devices this compact with redundant circuits and capabilities.
Hi all,
I got my iPhone X 64GB Silver 6 days ago. For some reason I am feeling this really painful eye strain too. It got worse from day one, starting with tired, red eyes to dry and painful eyes. At the moment, it feels like a needle or something in my eyes. Before, I've used several iPhones, iPads and a Macbook Pro and I've never had any issues. But after six days of using the iPhone X I am even anxious about going blind one day...
I've tried several software changes (Night shift, True Tone, Brightness) and nothing helped. I've also tried turning off Face ID. While cannot confirm Face ID isn't part of the problem, my eyes kept hurting after turning it off.
It's not clear for me what's triggering it. I guess it has something to do what getting used to OLED screen. But then again, will I ever be able to adapt to it or am I really allergic to this kind of screen?
Could it be (my) iPhone X as some kind of bug the IR beem is constantly on? In stead of that millisecond when using Face ID? I know it's a crazy thought, but who knows....
In The Netherlands, where I live, I am able to return my iPhone X within 14 days. If these eye problems consists, I will return it and buy an iPhone 8. I wil regret it tremendously, since that large screen and the extra camera were one of the main reasons to buy an X (I will not buy the 8 Plus, since I found out this model is too big for me).
=(
I got my iPhone X 64GB Silver 6 days ago. For some reason I am feeling this really painful eye strain too. It got worse from day one, starting with tired, red eyes to dry and painful eyes. At the moment, it feels like a needle or something in my eyes. Before, I've used several iPhones, iPads and a Macbook Pro and I've never had any issues. But after six days of using the iPhone X I am even anxious about going blind one day...
I've tried several software changes (Night shift, True Tone, Brightness) and nothing helped. I've also tried turning off Face ID. While cannot confirm Face ID isn't part of the problem, my eyes kept hurting after turning it off.
It's not clear for me what's triggering it. I guess it has something to do what getting used to OLED screen. But then again, will I ever be able to adapt to it or am I really allergic to this kind of screen?
Could it be (my) iPhone X as some kind of bug the IR beem is constantly on? In stead of that millisecond when using Face ID? I know it's a crazy thought, but who knows....
In The Netherlands, where I live, I am able to return my iPhone X within 14 days. If these eye problems consists, I will return it and buy an iPhone 8. I wil regret it tremendously, since that large screen and the extra camera were one of the main reasons to buy an X (I will not buy the 8 Plus, since I found out this model is too big for me).
=(
I think so, too.
I will soon upgrade to the X from my 6 plus. I have migraines sometimes, not the really bad ones but the last thing I need is a phone that gives me more headaches or eye strain.
I read a lot on my plus but was looking forward to a smaller device. We’ll see...
Why can’t the X be perfect?? Grrr.
Just kidding...
In a nutshell, when you go down from 100% brightness, the phone is dimming the screen by flashing the display at various frequencies. It's too fast to see with the naked eye (though you can see it in a slow motion video of the display) but it's enough to irritate or hurt some people's eyes/brains. That's why turning of FaceID didn't change things. If the phone is giving you eye pain or headaches, you really should return it while you can. It is very unlikely that there's an iOS patch for this problem; it's inherent in the hardware.
[doublepost=1513185750][/doublepost]If it's helpful, here's a snip from the NotebookCheck.com review of the iPhone X. Something to be careful about is that they don't say which devices they're referring to when they quote a 54% figure. Is that 54% of all cellphones, or all cellphones and tablets, or does that include laptops/notebooks as well? And is that 54% of devices with OLED displays, or does that include devices with LCD displays? Anyway, FWIW:
Screen Flickering / PWM (Pulse-Width Modulation)
ℹ
To dim the screen, some notebooks will simply cycle the backlight on and off in rapid succession - a method called Pulse Width Modulation (PWM) . This cycling frequency should ideally be undetectable to the human eye. If said frequency is too low, users with sensitive eyes may experience strain or headaches or even notice the flickering altogether.
Screen flickering / PWM detected 240 Hz 100 % brightness setting
The display backlight flickers at 240 Hz (Likely utilizing PWM) Flickering detected at a brightness setting of 100 % and below. There should be no flickering or PWM above this brightness setting.
The frequency of 240 Hz is relatively low, so sensitive users will likely notice flickering and experience eyestrain at the stated brightness setting and below.
In comparison: 54 % of all tested devices do not use PWM to dim the display. If PWM was detected, an average of 8544 (minimum: 43 - maximum: 142900) Hz was measured
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In a nutshell, when you go down from 100% brightness, the phone is dimming the screen by flashing the display at various frequencies. It's too fast to see with the naked eye (though you can see it in a slow motion video of the display) but it's enough to irritate or hurt some people's eyes/brains. That's why turning of FaceID didn't change things. If the phone is giving you eye pain or headaches, you really should return it while you can. It is very unlikely that there's an iOS patch for this problem; it's inherent in the hardware.
[doublepost=1513185750][/doublepost]If it's helpful, here's a snip from the NotebookCheck.com review of the iPhone X. Something to be careful about is that they don't say which devices they're referring to when they quote a 54% figure. Is that 54% of all cellphones, or all cellphones and tablets, or does that include laptops/notebooks as well? And is that 54% of devices with OLED displays, or does that include devices with LCD displays? Anyway, FWIW:
Screen Flickering / PWM (Pulse-Width Modulation)
ℹ
To dim the screen, some notebooks will simply cycle the backlight on and off in rapid succession - a method called Pulse Width Modulation (PWM) . This cycling frequency should ideally be undetectable to the human eye. If said frequency is too low, users with sensitive eyes may experience strain or headaches or even notice the flickering altogether.
Screen flickering / PWM detected 240 Hz 100 % brightness setting
The display backlight flickers at 240 Hz (Likely utilizing PWM) Flickering detected at a brightness setting of 100 % and below. There should be no flickering or PWM above this brightness setting.
The frequency of 240 Hz is relatively low, so sensitive users will likely notice flickering and experience eyestrain at the stated brightness setting and below.
In comparison: 54 % of all tested devices do not use PWM to dim the display. If PWM was detected, an average of 8544 (minimum: 43 - maximum: 142900) Hz was measured
I’m still confused why OLED display all seem to hover around 240 Hz. I wonder if kicking it up to 10,000 Hz would solve this problem for most of us.
I definitely think it would. I had very slight eye strain at higher brightnesses, so I think anything above 400-600 Hz would do the trick for most of us.
I too had a strange, stinging sensation behind my eyes within the first day of using my new iphone x. Strong headaches and tired eyes followed. As hypochondriac as i am, i immediately searched the web and found this thread.
I thought it‘s not going to stop and all the symptoms described here matched mine.
What can i say, now, after 5 days of using it all problems are gone. I‘m going to dismiss this as getting my eyes used to OLED and i hope at least some other people on here can eventually report the same.
I thought it‘s not going to stop and all the symptoms described here matched mine.
What can i say, now, after 5 days of using it all problems are gone. I‘m going to dismiss this as getting my eyes used to OLED and i hope at least some other people on here can eventually report the same.
Just wanted to chime in again. after using the X for a couple more weeks, I think I've gotten used to the screen.
I do get eye strain after using it for like an hour straight or something, but besides that, I think i'm good. Is it possible for people to get used to oled screens like that?
I better hope so, I'm already past my return window lol
I do get eye strain after using it for like an hour straight or something, but besides that, I think i'm good. Is it possible for people to get used to oled screens like that?
I better hope so, I'm already past my return window lol
Disclaimer: I am free-lancing here...
I think that's very interesting. I'm not an EE or an MD, so I don't know what the science of that might be or how many people might have the same experience, but that might be very helpful to others.
One big variable is going to be how you use your phone. If you spend a lot of time looking at the screen continuously, like watching videos on the bus or train while you commute, it would seem more likely to be a problem than if you're periodically checking emails or messages and then putting the phone aside.
I don't know about getting used to it, but there's two of you reporting that. Wondering out loud, if you had what I think has to be called a health problem (headaches, eye pain) from using the phone, I'd be surprised if Apple wouldn't take it back or exchange it for an 8/8 Plus and cash back. (That is purely a guess.)
I think that's very interesting. I'm not an EE or an MD, so I don't know what the science of that might be or how many people might have the same experience, but that might be very helpful to others.
One big variable is going to be how you use your phone. If you spend a lot of time looking at the screen continuously, like watching videos on the bus or train while you commute, it would seem more likely to be a problem than if you're periodically checking emails or messages and then putting the phone aside.
I don't know about getting used to it, but there's two of you reporting that. Wondering out loud, if you had what I think has to be called a health problem (headaches, eye pain) from using the phone, I'd be surprised if Apple wouldn't take it back or exchange it for an 8/8 Plus and cash back. (That is purely a guess.)
It’s likely not possible. Because there’s no backlight involved, the PWM has to come from the subpixel light output itself, and the pixels would probably not be able to pulse at a frequency that high while still maintaining a high quality image.
Despite some impressive-sounding response time numbers often quoted for OLED, the practical reality is more complicated. For example, OLED actually has fairly poor response times for darker shades, which is why the current VR headsets have opted to set their black points at a dark grey instead if takin advantage of OLED’s true blacks.
Many people absolutely can adapt to it. Whether it’s actually bad for your eyes is a separate topic — one I don’t have any data to make a statement about — but after some time the perceived discomfort can fade. To be clear, I’m not talking about people who have real migraines triggered by PWM; that’s a more serious reaction.
For me, PWM isn’t really about any severe reaction, I simply don’t like it. Especially when I’m reading, where it just always makes the screen seem somewhat unstable/not “real”. Others here get eye irritation, or headaches, and a few have even worse reactions. YMMV.
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What are people who suffer from PWM headaches to do? Is looking for a PWM free phone the only viable solution? Not to mention OLED is slowly replacing LCD now, does that mean fewer options for them?
PS, the poll results show a very high prevalence, at least on this site, compared to what I learned from people around me who have been using OLED android phones for years. Is it possible the screens Samsung made for Apple are somehow more prone?
PS, the poll results show a very high prevalence, at least on this site, compared to what I learned from people around me who have been using OLED android phones for years. Is it possible the screens Samsung made for Apple are somehow more prone?
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This may just be because the people who are affected are looking for answers and click on the thread.
I'm not sure if I can keep the phone. It's drop-dead gorgeous, but after using it for a few days, I am having an ever so slight headache. Could be tension headache, could be a flu bug. Could be the phone screen. I have until January 8 to confirm if it is or not.
I'm not sure if I can keep the phone. It's drop-dead gorgeous, but after using it for a few days, I am having an ever so slight headache. Could be tension headache, could be a flu bug. Could be the phone screen. I have until January 8 to confirm if it is or not.
Actually, have you checked your receipt to be sure that the iPhone is included in the extended return period? I bought my iPhone X on November 27th, which fell within that extended return period, and while the folio case and the Product Red case I bought at the same time do not have to be returned until January 8th, for my iPhone it was still the customary 14-day period, meaning that December 11, 2017 was the last day I could return the iPhone X. I am keeping it, love it to bits, so no issues regarding the return date for me. I would suggest that for anyone who is having doubts and is thinking about returning their iPhone X and assuming that it would not need to be until January 8th, it would be a good idea to double-check their receipt to be sure of the time frame and actual return date of a newly-purchased iPhone.
My Diagnosis is Accommodative Spasm. Tx: take a break by looking in the distance every so often
You could also get a pair of +1.00 readers. No, you don't have to be over 40 to have this problem.
BYW, what insurance do you have so I can bill them for the consultation :>
Dr. H
What you guys suggest to lower the brightness or increase the brightness. I usually put reduce white point to 75-80 level and True Tone off. Still getting kind of irritation at night behind my eye lids.
I only have minor eye strain unless I use it for like an hour straight, here's what I did:
-Turn brightness up as much as you can handle (This will reduce your battery life though)
-Keep true tone off
-Night Shift is fine
-Keep White Point off
Basically just don't do anything that makes the display dimmer
Did you buy an unlocked phone at full price, or do some kind of a carrier contract deal?
[doublepost=1513210530][/doublepost]
The only part of that that should be relevant is turning display brightness up, because PWM is used to dim the display.
Carrier contract deal with AT&T through NEXT program..... Maybe that has something to do with it, as I also needed to ship back my iPhone 7 Plus to AT&T within a certain time frame. Apple printed out the info and shipping label that I needed.