Yeah, I was more looking at it as a proof of concept. I agree that it's not very helpful if there's no PWM at 94% brightness, but it does prove there are other ways to handle PWM. As for the custom kernel for the S7, here's the thread if you want to check it out: https://forum.xda-developers.com/s7-edge/development/amoled-pwm-s7-edge-t3517739
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Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up
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Cool, thanks! This is an interesting issue, in part because it affects people so differently. I think I will google to see if there are any reliable estimates of the number of people affected by this.
I’ve had the x now for 11 days and I’m pretty sure it’s causing eye strain. I’m waiting to hear back from an Apple engineer tomorrow. I don’t wanna return for 8 + but I don’t wanna be stick with this if I’m not going to adjust. How long did it take for you to get used to the x?
I’m curious how many are affected too. I’m not sure reliable numbers would be available for something like this (especially specific to the iPhone X). There is a YouTube video in post 522 of this thread where I think the guy in the video says about 10% of people are affected by this. No idea where that number is coming from.
Well, approximately 83% of those sort of estimates are, in fact, made up on the spot without any research.
More seriously, I did spend some time googling. I found a lot of discussion about flat panel computer displays, standalone and laptop, and discussions of the merits and drawbacks of various illumination methods. I did NOT find much information about how common (or not) this is, and I didn't not find a whole lot of discussion about phone/mobile displays (which suggests to me that my search terms could be improved).
Sigh. I do hope Apple is able to provide an accessibility setting to alleviate this issue. Most of the time I am absolutely fine with my X’s display.
But I completely forgot and tried to read my ebook on it this morning. Reading ebooks is something I do on my iPhone Kindle apps all the time without really thinking about it. And I’ve read a few chapters on the X before and it was okay. Not great, but tolerable. But this morning I read a few chapters more than usual and now I’ve got a horrible ache in both eyes. This is usually not a problem on iPad or my LCD iPhone displays.
I’m still within my return period but I really like having OIS on the zoom lens. And I like the phone overall and I’ve invested in cases for it. I still have my 7 Plus and will just have to reserve my reading for that phone. I just think it’s a shame I need to keep my old phone on hand for this.
But I completely forgot and tried to read my ebook on it this morning. Reading ebooks is something I do on my iPhone Kindle apps all the time without really thinking about it. And I’ve read a few chapters on the X before and it was okay. Not great, but tolerable. But this morning I read a few chapters more than usual and now I’ve got a horrible ache in both eyes. This is usually not a problem on iPad or my LCD iPhone displays.
I’m still within my return period but I really like having OIS on the zoom lens. And I like the phone overall and I’ve invested in cases for it. I still have my 7 Plus and will just have to reserve my reading for that phone. I just think it’s a shame I need to keep my old phone on hand for this.
Well, with it being Christmas and all, I went ahead and purchased an iPhone X since I have until January 8th to return it. That's a month of testing. I bought it Friday night, and I still have not had any issues, fingers crossed. I'm still waiting for my migraine to come, probably at the most inopportune moment. My migraines are usually delayed to 18-24 hours after the event. Let's hope for the best.
You might not get one at all. As I’ve posted several posts ago, I am subject to some migraines that are as bad as epileptic seizures or strokes with aphasia and can be triggered by the flickering of laser light (like in concerts shown on tv). Some lights can trigger my migraines, too, as well as mold and some food additives. So far, the worse I am feeling with the X is some eye strain on occasion. I just posted that reading an ebook gave me eye ache but I’m still here posting on my X and the ache has subsided. My eyes still feel tired so once I am ready to switch chores I’ll put my iPhone down and give my eyes a rest.
I wish you luck and I hope you enjoy your phone very much with no problems.
By the way, as bad as my migraine condition is, I am the only one so far in the family who can take prolonged sessions with VR Goggles. I have no problems at all playing VR games or taking VR tours. Everyone else gets headaches and/or nausea and dizziness after about 10-15 minutes with VR. I don’t at all, so far, ever. The Samsung phones overheat and need to be cooled down and that’s what tends to end my time in VR. I do okay on most amusement park rides, too.
Migraines are such a strange disorder and you can’t always predict your triggers until you encounter them.
So true. I found out a few of triggers: prolonged crying/emotional distress, rapidly blinking lights, and tofu. I hope iPhone X will not be one of them.
Ah yeah, tofu does it to me, too! Especially when I was undergoing menopause. I would have to eat a pretty large helping, though. A few small cubes here and there won’t bother me. But a tofu “burger” is definitely out of the question.
I think the absolute worst headache I ever had in my life was caused by eating too much broccoli. I was going through a vegan phase and ordered the only vegetarian dish on a menu at one restaurant. It turned out to be a huge bowl of steamed broccoli and a few carrots. I ate it all and next day woke up with the worst headache ever. I can eat small helpings, I just can’t ever again attempt to make a meal of it.
Wishing you the best, but blinking lights is essentially the issue with using PWM to control brightness display. Fingers crossed for you (and you might be fine, it depends on what frequencies trigger you).
It will be interesting to see if Apple addresses this.
It might affect enough people for them to do something about it.
I have never been able to use a Macbook since they switched to LED. But I assume I'm in the insignificant minority since they've never accommodated us.
It might affect enough people for them to do something about it.
I have never been able to use a Macbook since they switched to LED. But I assume I'm in the insignificant minority since they've never accommodated us.
I’m all for an added accessibility option (provided nothing is enabled by default) to address the issue but I feel hardware changes or anything overly drastic would be going too far. So long as the display isn’t compromised and the regular user’s experience isn’t impacted then it’s all good. There is no flicker visible to the naked eye. I know it feels like a lot of people have this complaint but out of the millions of iPhone X users this would be barely a drop in the ocean. I feel bad for you guys but the honest truth is you are just extremely unfortunate. The average person shouldn’t be affected by this technology.
That’s a pretty fair assessment. However, I think it probably does strain all eyes to some degree, as a matter of how our eyes work. We won’t all feel it as quickly, so most will brush it off as ordinary eye strain when they do feel a slight twinge. There does seem to be two separate issues here: eye strain and migraine. Some unfortunate folks are experiencing both as result of the use of PWM.
Some people said they can sort of see the flicker. My eyes can detect it though “seeing” it isn’t quite an accurate way of putting it. I can “detect a sensation associated with the flicker” is perhaps more accurate. It makes it harder to focus on the words on the display, especially if I started on an LCD display that day and then switched to my X.
Assuming it affects everyone is probably an unfair assessment however. If this was medical fact then the technology would never have passed testing stage.
Or looking at it another way, every screen can cause eye strain after a while.
More the latter case. Our eyes weren’t meant by nature to stare for hours at artificially lit displays. It won’t “break” our eyes, but it will strain them and some wavelengths can do some harm as we’ve learned now. https://www.livescience.com/31949-led-lights-eye-damage.html
Displays using pwm put an additional strain on our eyes and nervous system as they create a lit display that disappears and renews itself while our eyes are designed to adjust for incoming light levels. The fact that the pulses happen faster than our eyes can compensate is logically going to have some effect. Clearly, many people feel it. In a manner of speaking,this is more of a workout than a steady display is going to give.
This is not about displays per se, but perhaps may be pertinent to ongoing discussions about the use of light in scanning technology: http://www.ledsmagazine.com/articles/2005/06/leds-are-safe-fact-or-fiction.html
The thing is, those articles do point out some holes in the testing and safety certification standards in the US.
The technology advances faster than the pace of the medical studies from what I’ve been able to discern in my admittedly limited ability to find information on my own via web searches without access to archives medical professionals have. However, this article quotes even an optometrist saying pretty much that: http://metro.co.uk/2013/09/10/mobile-phone-and-tablet-screens-damage-eyesight-3956463/
So we can’t assume just because products are offered for sale and use to the public that they are entirely without consequence to our health and safety. Look at the history of the marketing of cigarettes, once advertised as promoting health. They are still regulated for sale despite being a known cause of several fatal diseases. Money rules our world.
Interesting conversation and I definitely have more headaches since getting my X but I also bought a Pixel 2 XL at the same time and have been reading that it suffers from the same problem as well. So I'm not sure which phone is worse for me.
Does the Pixel 2XL also use pwm? I thought some people on this thread were saying LG doesn’t use that for their displays.
Can be tested easily.
Slowmotion recording of the screen
Lower the brightness.
If the flickering changes (slower) it has PWM
Ah, thanks. I don’t have the Pixel 2XL anymore to test it, though. I was wondering because my husband had one. I had the smaller Pixel 2 with the Samsung display.
The issue isn't common to all display types, only those that control brightness by, in plain English, strobing or blinking the display.
I'm not aware of any medical testing for the method of dimming of displays. In other words, the effects (or absence of effects, if any) from using PWM rather than voltage regulation to dim a display are not subject to health or medical testing.
I was reading something yesterday and I could have sworn they were talking about it but now I can't find it. It seems the original Pixel XL used it but I can't find any info on the 2 XL. Here's an interesting link I found. I assume those at the top of the list, have the lease noticeable PWM, but I'm not positive. iPhone X has a low number, which I think is bad (for those sensitive to PWM). Again, I'm not sure if I'm interpreting this correctly.
https://www.notebookcheck.net/PWM-Ranking-Notebooks-Smartphones-and-Tablets-with-PWM.163979.0.html
Correct about the lower number.
The lower the number is will also increase the chance of eyestrain (if you are sensitive to it)
However 0 means no flickering at all!!
Perfect for the eyes
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