Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up

[Paul1234]

This may just be because the people who are affected are looking for answers and click on the thread.

I'm not sure if I can keep the phone. It's drop-dead gorgeous, but after using it for a few days, I am having an ever so slight headache. Could be tension headache, could be a flu bug. Could be the phone screen. I have until January 8 to confirm if it is or not.

Don’t keep it, return it. I had it for ten days and couldn’t shake the dull headache, dry and hurt eyes. Returned for an 8+ and completely fine the next day! hopefully next year they’ll put a better screen in. RIP Steve. He would’ve never put that shut Ass screen in the iPhone.

 

[Gathomblipoob]

RIP Steve. He would’ve never put that shut Ass screen in the iPhone.

No, because Steve Jobs never made mistakes.

 

[Another Day]

Lol get better genetics

 

[Tijdelijk]

I only have minor eye strain unless I use it for like an hour straight, here's what I did:

-Turn brightness up as much as you can handle (This will reduce your battery life though)
-Keep true tone off
-Night Shift is fine
-Keep White Point off

Basically just don't do anything that makes the display dimmer

Even with full brightness it's still flickering with 240HZ.

Also full brightness will increase the oled burn in significant

 

[newellj]

Carrier contract deal with AT&T through NEXT program..... Maybe that has something to do with it, as I also needed to ship back my iPhone 7 Plus to AT&T within a certain time frame. Apple printed out the info and shipping label that I needed.

Yes, unless you buy from Apple at full price you are in the regular 14 day return window.

 

[0SC4R]

In a nutshell, when you go down from 100% brightness, the phone is dimming the screen by flashing the display at various frequencies. It's too fast to see with the naked eye (though you can see it in a slow motion video of the display) but it's enough to irritate or hurt some people's eyes/brains. That's why turning of FaceID didn't change things. If the phone is giving you eye pain or headaches, you really should return it while you can. It is very unlikely that there's an iOS patch for this problem; it's inherent in the hardware.
[doublepost=1513185750][/doublepost]If it's helpful, here's a snip from the NotebookCheck.com review of the iPhone X. Something to be careful about is that they don't say which devices they're referring to when they quote a 54% figure. Is that 54% of all cellphones, or all cellphones and tablets, or does that include laptops/notebooks as well? And is that 54% of devices with OLED displays, or does that include devices with LCD displays? Anyway, FWIW:

Screen Flickering / PWM (Pulse-Width Modulation)
ℹ
To dim the screen, some notebooks will simply cycle the backlight on and off in rapid succession - a method called Pulse Width Modulation (PWM) . This cycling frequency should ideally be undetectable to the human eye. If said frequency is too low, users with sensitive eyes may experience strain or headaches or even notice the flickering altogether.
Screen flickering / PWM detected 240 Hz 100 % brightness setting

The display backlight flickers at 240 Hz (Likely utilizing PWM) Flickering detected at a brightness setting of 100 % and below. There should be no flickering or PWM above this brightness setting.

The frequency of 240 Hz is relatively low, so sensitive users will likely notice flickering and experience eyestrain at the stated brightness setting and below.

In comparison: 54 % of all tested devices do not use PWM to dim the display. If PWM was detected, an average of 8544 (minimum: 43 - maximum: 142900) Hz was measured

Thank you so much for your explanation. Sounds PWM is my problem and this won't be fixed by a firmware upgrade. I guess switching to another phone is my only option. I am just wondering how I will react to other OLED screens. I am now thinking about switching to an iPhone 8, but it looks like OLED is going to be the standard from now on.

I only have minor eye strain unless I use it for like an hour straight, here's what I did:

-Turn brightness up as much as you can handle (This will reduce your battery life though)
-Keep true tone off
-Night Shift is fine
-Keep White Point off

Basically just don't do anything that makes the display dimmer

Turning brightness as high as possible has always been bad for my eyes. Lowering the light of my phone has been so much easier to read. Makes me wonder.... Would their be a minimal to the PWM flickering of 240HZ? Does it start at 0% brightness or higher?

 

[Tijdelijk]

Thank you so much for your explanation. Sounds PWM is my problem and this won't be fixed by a firmware upgrade. I guess switching to another phone is my only option. I am just wondering how I will react to other OLED screens. I am now thinking about switching to an iPhone 8, but it looks like OLED is going to be the standard from now on.





Turning brightness as high as possible has always been bad for my eyes. Lowering the light of my phone has been so much easier to read. Makes me wonder.... Would their be a minimal to the PWM flickering of 240HZ? Does it start at 0% brightness or higher?

With full brightness on this Oled panel it's at 240HZ
The lower the brightness the lower the frequency will get

 

[0SC4R]

With full brightness on this Oled panel it's at 240HZ
The lower the brightness the lower the frequency will get

But if so many people are sensitive to PWM, why you and other people are advising to keep the brightness at highest level? You want as less flickering as possible, or am I wrong?

 

[Tijdelijk]

But if so many people are sensitive to PWM, why you and other people are advising to keep the brightness at highest level? You want as less flickering as possible, or am I wrong?

The higher the brightness the higher the frequency is (on and off of the pixels per second)

With low brightness it's becoming more clear for the eyes and brains the screen is flickering.

I hope you understand now.
Imagine the screen flickering at 20HZ then it's already visible without a Slowmotion capture

 

[0SC4R]

The higher the brightness the higher the frequency is (on and off of the pixels per second)

With low brightness it's becoming more clear for the eyes and brains the screen is flickering.

I hope you understand now.
Imagine the screen flickering at 20HZ then it's already visible without a Slowmotion capture

Ah, I understand! Thanks. So in theory that means my eyes won't see the flickering as clear at higher brightness levels. I guess I am really sensitive to PWM, since I even get eye strains at 100% brightness.

In the end, playing with settings is just a quick fix (for some). As much as I like about the iPhone X, if I am honest to myself, it just doesn't feel right to need a quick fix to adjust to a €1000+ iPhone. No more 'It just works', instead it's 'How am I going to make it work for me?'.

 

[newellj]

Deleted - taking a look at other OLED phones and use of PWM.

 

[Kitkad]

Lol get better genetics

Good idea. I should've thought of that earlier.

 

[karinatwork]

Actually, have you checked your receipt to be sure that the iPhone is included in the extended return period?

Yes. It says right on the receipt: "Return Date January 8, 2018". I bought nothing else, so I'm certain it's for the phone. But I'm in Canada. It may be different here.

 

[Makayla]

I have been looking at this article that has been shared in this thread: https://www.notebookcheck.net/PWM-Ranking-Notebooks-Smartphones-and-Tablets-with-PWM.163979.0.html

It does seem OLED phones and tablets tend to fall between 200 to 500 while laptops have a much wider range. One Asus zenbook is 50 Hz and another one is 142000 Hz something. How zen! Lol

I wonder what is the most affected range?

I have had bad eye strains before from a couple of LED monitors at work (one Samsung, one Visio, 24 to 25 in, don't remember the model names) but I didn't know PWM was likely the culprit. I just assumed I over worked.

Now I current use a Lenovo laptop that's around 200 Hz but I have no issues at all. Love the laptop. And I borrowed a Samsung phone yesterday and tested myself using it for a few hours. No issues either.

Now I am curious what frequencies the two monitors that gave me problems had.

 

[Clix Pix]

Yes, unless you buy from Apple at full price you are in the regular 14 day return window.

Ah, thank you! That makes sense when I think about it....... Fortunately for me I have no plans to return it, especially since that 14-day return window has come and gone.

 

[newellj]

Ah, thank you! That makes sense when I think about it....... Fortunately for me I have no plans to return it, especially since that 14-day return window has come and gone.

I had to read the policy a few times to get to the point where I thought I had it right and if this hadn't come up in another thread I probably still wouldn't be confident. My phone was a web order, store pickup and the documentation (online and email) has nothing about a return date.

Apple is often pretty flexible about returns in person, though, and if you said the phone was giving you headaches or eye problems I bet they'd be quite understanding.
[doublepost=1513275276][/doublepost]

I have been looking at this article that has been shared in this thread: https://www.notebookcheck.net/PWM-Ranking-Notebooks-Smartphones-and-Tablets-with-PWM.163979.0.html

It does seem OLED phones and tablets tend to fall between 200 to 500 while laptops have a much wider range. One Asus zenbook is 50 Hz and another one is 142000 Hz something. How zen! Lol

I wonder what is the most affected range?

I have had bad eye strains before from a couple of LED monitors at work (one Samsung, one Visio, 24 to 25 in, don't remember the model names) but I didn't know PWM was likely the culprit. I just assumed I over worked.

Now I current use a Lenovo laptop that's around 200 Hz but I have no issues at all. Love the laptop. And I borrowed a Samsung phone yesterday and tested myself using it for a few hours. No issues either.

Now I am curious what frequencies the two monitors that gave me problems had.

I have been reading about this, too. I think that both frequency and amplitude matter. The NotebookCheck review says the X has PWM already at 100% brightness at ~240hz, but doesn't say what the amplitude was. The review for the Note 8 has three test plots; at 100% it has the relatively slow frequency of 60hz but the amplitude is nearly flat, which doesn't seem like it's likely to be a problem. And different people are going to respond differently. I wonder if Apple will do some redesigning for the iPhone Xi, or will decide that the overall number of people involved isn't significant enough in market terms and that they're willing to lose sales or take returns back for this issue.

 

[Atomic Walrus]

I have been reading about this, too. I think that both frequency and amplitude matter. The NotebookCheck review says the X has PWM already at 100% brightness at ~240hz, but doesn't say what the amplitude was. The review for the Note 8 has three test plots; at 100% it has the relatively slow frequency of 60hz but the amplitude is nearly flat, which doesn't seem like it's likely to be a problem. And different people are going to respond differently. I wonder if Apple will do some redesigning for the iPhone Xi, or will decide that the overall number of people involved isn't significant enough in market terms and that they're willing to lose sales or take returns back for this issue.

Amplitude is extremely important. If the dip is only a small percentage of total screen brightness, as is the case for most OLED implementations at near 100% brightness, then it's not really going to have much of an effect.

My speculation is that this can't be solved with current OLED panel technology, but that Apple will continue to produce a flicker-free LCD alternative (as current rumors about the 2018 lineup suggest) until an alternative tech like micro-LED, or some advancement in OLED tech, solves the issue.

 

[newellj]

Amplitude is extremely important. If the dip is only a small percentage of total screen brightness, as is the case for most OLED implementations at near 100% brightness, then it's not really going to have much of an effect.

My speculation is that this can't be solved with current OLED panel technology, but that Apple will continue to produce a flicker-free LCD alternative (as current rumors about the 2018 lineup suggest) until an alternative tech like micro-LED, or some advancement in OLED tech, solves the issue.

That would agree with the current rumors. I assume LCD IPS panels are less expensive than OLED displays? That would be another reason to develop new LCD-equipped phones for the lineup, rather than just keeping prior years' models in the lineup.

 

[Gollygeewillikers]

PWM is to blame for some of the reported eye problems and headaches no doubt. Though I honestly feel that the infrared blasting Face ID is much more dangerous.

I'm not sure how reliable this article is but it summarizes exactly my experience with the iPhone X. The sharp pain behind the eyes in particular. Apologies if someone already shared this:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...-say-iris-scanner-causing-eye-discomfort.html

Edit: Better to go straight to the original Reddit discussion since the above article seems to have borrowed all of their content from it (and it's full of typos, doesn't inspire confidence).
https://www.reddit.com/r/GalaxyS8/comments/6br1ac/iris_scanner_hurting_eye/

 

[newellj]

PWM is to blame for some of the reported eye problems and headaches no doubt. Though I honestly feel that the infrared blasting Face ID is much more dangerous.

I'm not sure how reliable this article is but it summarizes exactly my experience with the iPhone X. The sharp pain behind the eyes in particular. Apologies if someone already shared this:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...-say-iris-scanner-causing-eye-discomfort.html

I wonder if it's comparable, though. The Samsung was hitting your retinas with direct IR. FaceID is shooting several hundred (IIRC?) little dots at your face as a whole. Could be very different - I don't really know, but I think there's a question.

 

[Gollygeewillikers]

Off topic...

As I read this discussion I often wonder: Why do we need such mechanisms of security? If your phone is stolen you can always remotely wipe the data, assuming you've turned on that feature. If you lose your phone or leave it in a bar (which I have), wouldn't you want someone to text a friend to tell you where it is? (Which is how I got my phone back)

Face ID is a great way for Apple to exploit your emotional responses and your identity for whatever purposes they want, and sell to 3rd parties. So why give them that data freely? Under the pretense of "security"?

Anyways, just ranting here I guess, back on topic, maybe just don't use Face ID unless you need to hide something. Maybe you'll save your eyesight in the process too.

 

[jtl_]

Should have just put the fingerprint reader on the back like LG V20, Pixel 2 XL, etc.

 

[Calleknug]

I just bought the phone yesterday and also have trouble with focusing on the screen and getting headaches from it. Has any of you gotten used to it after time or should I just go and return it and hope they use a non PWM-panel next year?

 

[dan98]

Lol get better genetics

Actually I would argue that those who are aware of such subtle high-speed flickering have *better* senses than the average, not worse.

 

[Paul1234]

I just bought the phone yesterday and also have trouble with focusing on the screen and getting headaches from it. Has any of you gotten used to it after time or should I just go and return it and hope they use a non PWM-panel next year?

I had the exact same symptoms from day one with the phone. I kept it for 12 days thinking and hoping I’d get used to it. It got worse so I did the logical thing and returned for an 8+. And honestly the 8plus camera is the same, screen is bigger and I’m getting twice the battery usage as the x! Just return it, it’s not worth risking damaging your eyes.