It’s helped me too today but I do find that level or brightness a bit harsh when I’m indoors. I’m also not a fan of the shade my True Tone is which is a baby aspirin orange compared to what my husband has on his display with True Tone. But it is easier on the eyes. I’ll try going lower than 50% tomorrow and seeing if the fatigue comes back.
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Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up
- Thread starter Kitkad
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Too many compromises, dammit. It should be perfect. But it's not. Maybe if it was $ 500. But for nearly $ 2000 (CAD)... no thanks.
I mean, to be fair, 80-90% of the population have no issue with PWM. I still think the X is the best phone I've ever had, even though it kills my eyes
-The best even though it kills my eyes
-leave it on 50% brightness procent only
-etc.
All those compromises ......
That's what I mean though, nearly all of the population has no issue whatsoever with the X's screen. It's just us unlucky people who are sensitive to it.
For everyone else, there are no PWM related comprimises
I’ll be honest: I’m a little disappointed in Apple for telling me I’d receive daily updates then not hearing back for over a week. I’ll remain optimistic that this means that they are actively figuring out how to adjust the PWM or provide a setting that does so since it would have only taken 24 hours for them to close the case and come to the resolution of recommending that those with fatigue return iPhone X.
So speaking optimistically I hope they’re about to release a software update addressing this then will let me know the resolution they’ve reached after it’s released rather than giving me non-definitive updates. If they weren’t working on providing a fix soon, they would have probably closed the case already.
So speaking optimistically I hope they’re about to release a software update addressing this then will let me know the resolution they’ve reached after it’s released rather than giving me non-definitive updates. If they weren’t working on providing a fix soon, they would have probably closed the case already.
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Here is an excellent article on PWM:
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Why-Pulse-Width-Modulation-PWM-is-such-a-headache.270240.0.html
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Why-Pulse-Width-Modulation-PWM-is-such-a-headache.270240.0.html
Oh, I totally agree. If it didn't have the flickering, then yes, it would be the best phone Apple ever made. But it's not. They should have done better. This is a total deal breaker. I thought this company would care more about consumers. Obviously, they don't. Everything under 250 Hz is problematic. It's a known fact. Why they went to 240 Hz is beyond me.
There will be no software updates or hardware mods to eliminate this issue. You all need to either deal with it or return / sell the phone. It is just how the iPhone X is built along with all other OLED screen phones except LG V30. It's an inherent trait of the OLED screen. Not trying to insult anyone, but to think that this will be resolved with a magical update / iOS mod / hardware mod, is just a waste of time. It is how the phone is built and how this OLED functions (at the frequency where PWM dimming kicks in). End of story.
The only reason we're even talking about a software fix is because we know it's 100% possible. See: https://forum.xda-developers.com/s7-edge/development/amoled-pwm-s7-edge-t3517739
I don't think anyone is expecting a magical fix, just something like what the guys on xda devs were able to do. Plus, Apple themselved said they would look into a software fix. Until Apple says it's a flat out no, there's no reason to not hold out for a resolution
Fair point, but we're talking about Apple here. You want to talk about Android, then yeah there are mods you can apply, and even then it requires a great amount of tinkering and flashing ROMs. Very complicated for vast majority of people on top of carriers locking bootloaders, which would make the task impossible to do. There are no "official" solutions for any Android phone. I'd be shocked if Apple adjusted the frequency because nothing about the phone / screen is defective. Don't get me wrong, I - HATE - PWM dimming. Hopefully the resources now being invested in LG OLED by Apple and Google will eliminate this issue and/or cause Samsung to follow suit and stop using PWM.
Yeah, I was just showing that it's possible, I agree that it's probably unlikely. However, since it's a health issue and not just a superfluous feature request or something, I'm still hoping something may come of it.
Apple have always been open about what they do with your data and what they don’t do. No offence but you are being rather ridiculous here.
It doesn’t make sense to scoff at phone security (which is used for more than just locking your phone btw) and then get paranoid over Apple spying on you.
Ftr, it’s Google that sells your data.
How so? Most of the population is not affected by PWM. About 10-20% do feel strain, but most don't even notice it
I really hope they will resolve this issue because it s a goddamn 1000$ phone so there should be no problems when using it!
Believe what you want, but I got the numbers here: https://www.flatpanelshd.com/focus.php?subaction=showfull&id=1362457985
"Notice: We need to emphasize that all eyes are different. Those who are affected never see the actual flicker; it is “indirect”. Studies have shown that approximately 10 % of people experience discomfort. The rest experience either mild discomfort or no discomfort at all"
I've also seen other sites mention the 10% figure, not sure how that's so ridiculous.
It's ridiculous to exaggerate "approximately 10%" to 20%, for starters. It also needs to be emphasized that people respond differently to different frequencies (and presumably, different amplitudes). Some people may be bothered by 20% at 60Hz but may not be bothered at higher frequencies. Some people apparently are bothered by frequencies in the 200-300Hz range, again presumably depending on amplitude, and some people reportedly are going to experience effects all the way to 3KHz. Mobile and fixed displays are all over the ballpark in terms of both frequency and amplitude. A blog post that pulls an uncited 10% figure out of the air is not itself a reliable source, and inflating it by 100% is even less credible.
Yeah, we know this already. Different people are affected in different ways. I wasn't exaggerating anything, I was saying that 10-20% of people feel some kind of strain, which is consistent with what I've seen online. Some of those people are more affected than others, that's a given. I obviously wasn't saying they're all the same. I fully admit my numbers may be wrong, but I'm going off of what I've read, and my point stands no matter how small the numbers are.
Anyway, my entire point was that most people have zero issue with PWM, and I don't think the X is a bad phone because of it. My numbers may be off, but I'm sure you get the point I was trying to make. No need to be rude with the "omg this is the MOST RIDICULOUS thing I've ever read!!"
Finally, here's a study from Kitasato University, School of Allied Health Sciences that backs up what I said.
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To add to the complications about the variances among people’s vision and sensitivities, there is the variance among the displays to consider.
I don’t have a photo right now, but I could try to take one later, but I noticed last night that my X’s display is VERY different from that of my husband’s. We both have 256 GB AT&T IPhone X’s, differing only in case color.
We both set ours to 50% brightness but his still looked a lot darker, like mine looks at about 35%, which is my comfort zone for brightness. His has terrible blue shift, too. While his stays dim on 50%, I can read on it better. For mine to diminish the flicker, I have to have it set too bright at the 50% mark and that’s just too bright for my eyes, on my IPhone display. On his iPhone, 50% brightness is darker and less harsh.
Mine looks ten times better than his display but it is ten times harder on the eyes. I wish I could return it and play the display lottery to get one better for my eyes but that is casting too much to luck.
When I say my display looks ten times better, I mean it is brighter and whiter and has no noticeable color shifting, especially no blue shift on an angle. Mine does have a faint pink stain around the edge like a faint blush bezel.
I wonder if people who do not have issues with eye strain have a display like my husband’s that simply is less likely to trigger a problem. If I were to return my phone and try to get another, would I then have to hope for a display that aesthetically is less attractive, but also kinder to the eyes?
I don’t have a photo right now, but I could try to take one later, but I noticed last night that my X’s display is VERY different from that of my husband’s. We both have 256 GB AT&T IPhone X’s, differing only in case color.
We both set ours to 50% brightness but his still looked a lot darker, like mine looks at about 35%, which is my comfort zone for brightness. His has terrible blue shift, too. While his stays dim on 50%, I can read on it better. For mine to diminish the flicker, I have to have it set too bright at the 50% mark and that’s just too bright for my eyes, on my IPhone display. On his iPhone, 50% brightness is darker and less harsh.
Mine looks ten times better than his display but it is ten times harder on the eyes. I wish I could return it and play the display lottery to get one better for my eyes but that is casting too much to luck.
When I say my display looks ten times better, I mean it is brighter and whiter and has no noticeable color shifting, especially no blue shift on an angle. Mine does have a faint pink stain around the edge like a faint blush bezel.
I wonder if people who do not have issues with eye strain have a display like my husband’s that simply is less likely to trigger a problem. If I were to return my phone and try to get another, would I then have to hope for a display that aesthetically is less attractive, but also kinder to the eyes?
@TDDM
Thanks for that. I think it's clear this is a real problem...I wonder whether Samsung and Apple and LG and other manufacturers do research - presumably they do? - on this before they start designing products. The differences in how the Note 8 uses PWM vs. the iPhone X are interesting, at least to the extent they show different choices. Someone posted a Russian iPhone X review earlier that suggests that "most" (as you point out, who knows what that really means) people will be ok at 50% or greater screen brightness.
The other thing that hasn't been pointed out much here is that not only do people differ in their sensitivities to frequency and amplitude, but they also differ in how long they look at their phone or table displays. I use my phone a lot, but only for very short periods. Read an email or message, perform some health- or fitness-related task, check the weather...maybe reserve a table for dinner. These are all short tasks, and probably anything would be acceptable. But if you watch movies, or read books (get a Kindle!!!), your results could be drastically different.
I haven't had any problems with the iPhone X or any other display, but the fluorescent overhead lights in my office drive me nuts (60Hz, probably). I had the one over my desk removed and leave the others off nearly all the time. I can easily sympathize with people who find the X (or other phones) problematic.
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That's wild. On a $1K phone, honestly, I would expect more consistency. You have my curiosity up. We have two of those (at least until 1/8?) and my older son has another. I think we'll do a side by side comparison over the holidays.
Thanks for that. I think it's clear this is a real problem...I wonder whether Samsung and Apple and LG and other manufacturers do research - presumably they do? - on this before they start designing products. The differences in how the Note 8 uses PWM vs. the iPhone X are interesting, at least to the extent they show different choices. Someone posted a Russian iPhone X review earlier that suggests that "most" (as you point out, who knows what that really means) people will be ok at 50% or greater screen brightness.
The other thing that hasn't been pointed out much here is that not only do people differ in their sensitivities to frequency and amplitude, but they also differ in how long they look at their phone or table displays. I use my phone a lot, but only for very short periods. Read an email or message, perform some health- or fitness-related task, check the weather...maybe reserve a table for dinner. These are all short tasks, and probably anything would be acceptable. But if you watch movies, or read books (get a Kindle!!!), your results could be drastically different.
I haven't had any problems with the iPhone X or any other display, but the fluorescent overhead lights in my office drive me nuts (60Hz, probably). I had the one over my desk removed and leave the others off nearly all the time. I can easily sympathize with people who find the X (or other phones) problematic.
[doublepost=1513710224][/doublepost]
That's wild. On a $1K phone, honestly, I would expect more consistency. You have my curiosity up. We have two of those (at least until 1/8?) and my older son has another. I think we'll do a side by side comparison over the holidays.
So are people just bothered by OLED handling motion flicker free or?
I know some people are sensitive to OLED motion on OLED tv’s
I’m not one tho.
I know some people are sensitive to OLED motion on OLED tv’s
I’m not one tho.
And some computer displays as well.
Higher freqs don't seem to bother me. Old style fluorescents drive me nuts, though.