Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up

[MICHAELSD]

Whatever they did with the update, it completely eliminated all PWM flicker on video from all my lights. It's actually impressive how much they improved it. My kitchen LED strip was so bad on the old dimmer that even standard 60 fps video would pick it up when panning sometimes. What's kinda cool is if you watch closely, when you first jump into slow motion mode, you can see the flicker show on screen for a brief second before the phone corrects for it. Pretty cool really and I'm surprised it just floated in as part of a general update. Now I'm curious how the 14 and 14 Pro would register in slow motion post update. I'm sure most people don't have these thoughts or notice a change so small that only PWM obsessed people would see the fix, lol.

BTW, I'm catching up on some of the good news in the thread, and I'm happy to see some of you getting along with your 14/14 Pros enough to keep using them. And sorry for those of you who tried again and failed. Fingers crossed the next SE saves us!

I’m not super enthusiastic about a glorified iPhone XR, but I suppose I could grow to like it if it’s our only option.

 

[jm31828]

Already well ahead of you on that.

Locking the brightness to 12% or 3% still led to the similar tension headaches. Unfortunately there’s no level I’ve found that I can correlate to not causing issues.

The “refresh rate” text in the review is slightly misleading, as it’s still 60Hz PWM.

Thanks to @pwm away’s excellent and comprehensive measurements, we know that iPhone 13 Mini has the best amplitudes of any OLED iPhone—which explains why I got along so well with that iPhone, yet still got headaches. The goal would be for flicker coefficients under 1% like any LCD iPhone.

Thank you for the response! Sorry to hear that it didn’t work out for you.
I think I’ll not waste my time trying to buy one and juggle that testing around the rapidly closing return window for my new SE.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Mostly at night I keep it 90-100%. Yes, 100%.

During the day, if inside, I play with it 60-90%.

I’ve been trying to not keep brightness at 100%, as I seemed to need to in the past, but I’ve been trying auto brightness ON, and it’s…tolerable? Enough that sometimes I have to remember to check the level. That’s moving in a good direction.

But I use RWP on my 11 at night, too. I just don’t particularly like bright screens. Outside, all those nits are awesome. Inside, not so much.

Have you tried the RWP and not noticed any difference? Or are you starting to experiment now?

There are amplitudes posted throughout this thread, but basically on iPhone 14 Pro Max it’s around 14% at most levels so auto-brightness is more suitable as it’s slightly more consistent. There’s less need for RWP, but after reviewing @pwm away’s assessment of iPhone 13 I set the RWP to 75% and the brightness to 75%. Normally I’d use 80% as it’s the highest for RWP without drastically affecting color accuracy, but I noticed how much amplitudes increased once the testing raised RWP.

Incredibly, it is more usable with these settings. We definitely do respond best to the lowest amplitudes possible. It makes this feel like a major waste of time since if the amplitudes were under 1% to begin with this would be fixed.

iPhone 13 Mini has the best amplitudes of any OLED iPhone ever tested, reaching 3.79% at 100% brightness. RWP with iPhone 13 Mini may provide a good experience. I’m sure I already tested every possible combination of settings when I had it.

If iPhone 14’s flicker was similarly low across the brightness range, which I’m skeptical about, then it may be worth trying. That could be a major saving grace for the 60Hz PWM rate. In fact, 60Hz with incredibly low amplitudes may be better than a high rate with moderate amplitudes.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Thank you for the response! Sorry to hear that it didn’t work out for you.
I think I’ll not waste my time trying to buy one and juggle that testing around the rapidly closing return window for my new SE.

iPhone 13 Mini was my favorite new iPhone, but iPhone SE is better than expected and surprisingly modern with some adjustment.

If you get headaches from the PWM on iPhone 13 Mini then keep the SE for now and save the hassle.

 

[sorgo †]

iPhone 13 Mini was my favorite new iPhone, but iPhone SE is better than expected and surprisingly modern with some adjustment.

If you get headaches from the PWM on iPhone 13 Mini then keep the SE for now and save the hassle.

Very well said. iPhone 13 mini wins out in some areas but the SE wins in value and visual ergonomics. I think they both bring enough to the table to be considered equals of sorts.

I vote stick with the SE and enjoy; some days I wish I’d stuck with mine. Just couldn’t justify the $200 cost post-trade in, especially when I am lucky enough to experience only mild ocular irritation (no headaches, nausea, or dizziness, thank God!) with the 13 mini.

The 14 Pro, though: THAT one went right back in its box after making me feel straight-up ill. Can’t wait to finally return it tomorrow now that I know it simply isn’t meant to be.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Very well said. iPhone 13 mini wins out in some areas but the SE wins in value and visual ergonomics. I think they both bring enough to the table to be considered equals of sorts.

I vote stick with the SE and enjoy; some days I wish I’d stuck with mine. Just couldn’t justify the $200 cost post-trade in, especially when I am lucky enough to experience only mild ocular irritation (no headaches, nausea, or dizziness, thank God!) with the 13 mini.

The 14 Pro, though: THAT one went right back in its box after making me feel straight-up ill. Can’t wait to finally return it tomorrow now that I know it simply isn’t meant to be.

Thank you.

Any interest in the standard iPhone 14? Normally I’d write that one off entirely but some of the experiences here have been quite encouraging.

 

[sorgo †]

Thank you.

Any interest in the standard iPhone 14? Normally I’d write that one off entirely but some of the experiences here have been quite encouraging.

Nah, not really. After trying out the Pro I was reminded that the 6.1” size is really not for me. Very happy with the mini for the time being, but I’m glad to hear there are some PWM sufferers who are comfortably getting by.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Nah, not really. After trying out the Pro I was reminded that the 6.1” size is really not for me. Very happy with the mini for the time being.

Agreed, the 5.4” size just feels so natural. I don’t like the 6.1” size either. I have no complaints with the 6.7” Max for everyday usability besides it being slightly too large for some of my pockets.

iPhone 14 Mini would be an instant buy.

Maybe it’s because of the lower amplitudes, but I also feel like that was the best OLED display on an iPhone. Even iPhone 14 Pro Max doesn’t look as good IMHO, but PWM sensitivity could be biasing that opinion. I directly compared the Mini to iPhone 13 and HDR content looked amazing on the Mini.

I would even pay more for a Mini-sized iPhone, and a lot of that has to do with the display feeling more premium.

What do we need to do for Apple to release an OLED iPhone with .75% flicker like a LCD?

 

[DJTaurus]

1)Has anyone seen any different results with True Tone on or off ? Same with night shift. Last night it felt more relaxed with True Tone on…. but i can’t stand that yellow piss. 14/14 plus have already yellow screens. 14 pros are the first iPhone oleds with such blue tints.

2)My experience with 14 plus is 100% similar to 14. Mild/tolerable irritations but not consistent.

 

[MICHAELSD]

1)Has anyone seen any different results with True Tone on or off ? Same with night shift. Last night it felt more relaxed with True Tone on…. but i can’t stand that yellow piss. 14/14 plus have already yellow screens. 14 pros are the first iPhone oleds with such blue tints.

2)My experience with 14 plus is 100% similar to 14. Mild/tolerable irritations but not consistent.

True Tone doesn’t affect flicker as we know, but it should be more comfortable for the eyes with it enabled. I’m definitely a fan, and adjust to the warmest displays.

Looking at iPhone 14 Pro and iPhone 14 Pro Max, it seems like Apple added virtually the exact same PWM implementation. It should be the same for iPhone 14 and iPhone 14 Plus with minor differences between the two, so it really comes down to preference this generation.

 

[fel10]

I was just wondering, does anyone get kind of a blooming effect on the iPhone 14 pro max when reading something white with a dark background. I took a pic of it to kind of show. Sorry for the quality, I took it with my iPad

 

[Gargamelus]

Look at these Chinese.. Xiaomi create pwm with 2000 hz in the displays..
why can't Apple do that???..
that's frustrating.. I have the Xiaomi here.. a great display.. none at all Eye strain.. like an lcd.
very eye-friendly displays writes Notebookcheck

 

[Leindt]

View attachment 2098355


Look at these Chinese.. Xiaomi create pwm with 2000 hz in the displays..
why can't Apple do that???..
that's frustrating.. I have the Xiaomi here.. a great display.. none at all Eye strain.. like an lcd.
very eye-friendly displays writes Notebookcheck

Do you have the Xiaomi 12t pro, how is the screen? Better for the eyes than the classic OLED? Because I've seen many Chinese smartphones with that kind of 1920hz panels (honor, huawei) and the Chinese community gives a lot of importance to it but here in the west....

 

[Abiyork]

I must admit that since I can only own an Iphone 11 without the headaches and eyes issue I am out of the look with the technology on the market right now.

Will there be a point in the future when this issue goes away? Are new technologies such as mini LED going to remove 99% of these issues and are there other phone producers using mini LED etc that can prove this theory?

Due to a serious health condition triggered by an iphone 12 pro (see previous posts) I dare not even try what a lot of you guys are doing in buying/returning phones.

I will wait until I am at a much safer situation before trying to upgrade. I love new technology and gadgets and I am a profeesional photographer too so am desperate to update for the cameras alone.

 

[Gargamelus]

I must admit that since I can only own an Iphone 11 without the headaches and eyes issue I am out of the look with the technology on the market right now.

Will there be a point in the future when this issue goes away? Are new technologies such as mini LED going to remove 99% of these issues and are there other phone producers using mini LED etc that can prove this theory?

Due to a serious health condition triggered by an iphone 12 pro (see previous posts) I dare not even try what a lot of you guys are doing in buying/returning phones.

I will wait until I am at a much safer situation before trying to upgrade. I love new technology and gadgets and I am a profeesional photographer too so am desperate to update for the cameras alone.

there is a solution. See huawei and xiaomi. these Oled displays don't cause headaches... I don't understand why Apple and Samsung don't implement higher frequencies..

 

[jimmy_uk]

View attachment 2098355


Look at these Chinese.. Xiaomi create pwm with 2000 hz in the displays..
why can't Apple do that???..
that's frustrating.. I have the Xiaomi here.. a great display.. none at all Eye strain.. like an lcd.
very eye-friendly displays writes Notebookcheck

It's not just a high numbers game though - the amplitude is also a factor. If the amplitude wave is high then very shallow it's an issue (I don't fully understand the readings - just trying to make sense of how I've been unable to use the OLED devices).

Any PWM is bad for some as I find even with a reported PWM reading of 19190 Hz on mini-LED iPad Pro 12.9 M1, it still bothers my eyes. The reported 60hz PWM on the iPhone 14 has very small and short peaks + dips which might explain how it was the easiest to use with the least issues.

And I've read some comments about these Chinese phones with advertised high PWM frequencies as being a bit of a fib and still an issue.

 

[Gargamelus]

It's not just a high numbers game though - the amplitude is also a factor. If the amplitude wave is high then very shallow it's an issue (I don't fully understand the readings - just trying to make sense of how I've been unable to use the OLED devices).

Any PWM is bad for some as I find even with a reported PWM reading of 19190 Hz on mini-LED iPad Pro 12.9 M1, it still bothers my eyes. The reported 60hz PWM on the iPhone 14 has very small and short peaks + dips which might explain how it was the easiest to use with the least issues.

And I've read some comments about these Chinese phones with advertised high PWM frequencies as being a bit of a fib and still an issue.

of course the amplitude is an important factor at a low frequency! but above a very high frequency, the amplitude usually becomes less and less important. I am very surprised by your statement. 20,000hz / 20kHz ! such a high frequency causes you problems. that is hard.

Xiaomi 12 t pro gives me no problems and it's the best oled display for my sensitive eyes that I've ever had.. and I've tried more than 30 oled phones for sure..

 

[jimmy_uk]

Xiaomi 12 t pro gives me no problems and it's the best oled display for my sensitive eyes that I've ever had.. and I've tried more than 30 oled phones for sure..

Now that's interesting - and the phone is one sale today with a free tablet = £584.00. Gonna speed read some reviews now.....

 

[Chrispy]

I’m not super enthusiastic about a glorified iPhone XR, but I suppose I could grow to like it if it’s our only option.

Haha, same. I'm happy to hear they are sticking with LCD for the SE, but it's not going to feel like much of an upgrade going from my XR to SE if the rumors are true. Then again, I always say I dislike change so I guess I should be careful what I wish for!

 

[john g.]

Mostly at night I keep it 90-100%. Yes, 100%.

During the day, if inside, I play with it 60-90%.

I’ve been trying to not keep brightness at 100%, as I seemed to need to in the past, but I’ve been trying auto brightness ON, and it’s…tolerable? Enough that sometimes I have to remember to check the level. That’s moving in a good direction.

But I use RWP on my 11 at night, too. I just don’t particularly like bright screens. Outside, all those nits are awesome. Inside, not so much.

Have you tried the RWP and not noticed any difference? Or are you starting to experiment now?

Thanks for the reply. On my first iPhone 14 Pro, the screen was blindingly white and harsh so I did run those kinds of numbers on that phone. This phone seems considerably warmer, which I like. So I have been conservative about trying too many things at once. Last night I enabled RWP at the lowest setting, only 25% plus I’m just keeping the overall brightness is just over 50%. Using dark mode at night and morning and light mode during the day.

Still an option for me to radically increase RWP but I feel like I need to take time with all the settings otherwise I don’t know what works.
But I like it with even 25% enabled.

In conclusion, the screen lottery thing is real. This screen is better than the first one I tried. It’s not perfect and I still need to make adjustments but I was just dealing with too bright of a screen on the first one.

 

[Gargamelus]

Now that's interesting - and the phone is one sale today with a free tablet = £584.00. Gonna speed read some reviews now.....

in the EU we can try devices for up to 14 days and then send them back if you don't like it.. I would be interested to know what other pwm sufferers have to say about the Xiaomi 12 models

 

[jm31828]

There are amplitudes posted throughout this thread, but basically on iPhone 14 Pro Max it’s around 14% at most levels so auto-brightness is more suitable as it’s slightly more consistent. There’s less need for RWP, but after reviewing @pwm away’s assessment of iPhone 13 I set the RWP to 75% and the brightness to 75%. Normally I’d use 80% as it’s the highest for RWP without drastically affecting color accuracy, but I noticed how much amplitudes increased once the testing raised RWP.

Incredibly, it is more usable with these settings. We definitely do respond best to the lowest amplitudes possible. It makes this feel like a major waste of time since if the amplitudes were under 1% to begin with this would be fixed.

iPhone 13 Mini has the best amplitudes of any OLED iPhone ever tested, reaching 3.79% at 100% brightness. RWP with iPhone 13 Mini may provide a good experience. I’m sure I already tested every possible combination of settings when I had it.

If iPhone 14’s flicker was similarly low across the brightness range, which I’m skeptical about, then it may be worth trying. That could be a major saving grace for the 60Hz PWM rate. In fact, 60Hz with incredibly low amplitudes may be better than a high rate with moderate amplitudes.

So do you think the best experience on a 13 Mini is 75% brightness and 75% RWP as well as you noted, or is there more freedom to drop brightness even lower and use less RWP on that phone due to the better amplitude?

 

[MICHAELSD]

So do you think the best experience on a 13 Mini is 75% brightness and 75% RWP as well as you noted, or is there more freedom to drop brightness even lower and use less RWP on that phone due to the better amplitude?

I was using 75%/75% on iPhone 14PM. The difference is so minor with RWP on this iPhone that I’ve found it’s better to keep auto-brightness on, even if I’m currently experiencing a tension headache/migraine.

100% brightness presents the lowest amplitude on iPhone 13 Mini, which remains at around 4% with RWP at 75%.

I’d be tempted to try iPhone 13 Mini again and leaving the brightness at 100% as it has the lowest amplitude that’s been measured, but I’m fairly certain I already tested that setting and still got headaches unfortunately.

 

[jm31828]

I was using 75%/75% on iPhone 14PM. The difference is so minor with RWP on this iPhone that I’ve found it’s better to keep auto-brightness on, even if I’m currently experiencing a tension headache/migraine.

100% brightness presents the lowest amplitude on iPhone 13 Mini, which remains at around 4% with RWP at 75%.

I’d be tempted to try iPhone 13 Mini again and leaving the brightness at 100% as it has the lowest amplitude that’s been measured, but I’m fairly certain I already tested that setting and still got headaches unfortunately.

For those of us sensitive to the bright screen, 100% brightness is rather rough and in my case, I end up having to set RWP to about 96% or 97% in that scenario to get it down to a usable brightness- but I imagine on a Mini that would negate the benefits of having brightness at 100%?

I am so tempted to pick up a mini again and try it out some more, as what you are describing sounds really promising- since I got along pretty well with a 13 Pro- which according to other info posted here, has worse amplitude than the mini by far.

I would have to play some games here, where the SE I bought (and actually do really like, and the screen is so easy on the eyes) is reaching the end of the return window as of this coming Monday- so I would have to buy a Mini now, and initiate a return on the SE, opening that return window- so I could try the Mini for a week or so, and then either return the Mini, or keep it and go ahead and send the SE back.

I'm torn as the Mini is a fantastic size and form factor with a few other perks like a better camera and battery, but yet the SE is great as it has touchID and the LCD display with no PWM.

 

[MICHAELSD]

For those of us sensitive to the bright screen, 100% brightness is rather rough and in my case, I end up having to set RWP to about 96% or 97% in that scenario to get it down to a usable brightness- but I imagine on a Mini that would negate the benefits of having brightness at 100%?

I am so tempted to pick up a mini again and try it out some more, as what you are describing sounds really promising- and if I got along pretty well with a 13 Pro, which according to other info posted here, has worse amplitude than the mini by far.

I would have to play some games here, where the SE I bought (and actually do really like, and the screen is so easy on the eyes) is reaching the end of the return window as of this coming Monday- so I would have to buy a Mini now, and initiate a return on the SE, opening that return window- so I could try the Mini for a week or so, and then either return the Mini, or keep it and go ahead and send the SE back.

I'm torn as the Mini is a fantastic size and form factor with a few other perks like a better camera and battery, but yet the SE is great as it has touchID and the LCD display with no PWM.

I’d refer back to this excellent post:

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/eye-strain-while-using-iphone-x-and-up.2085427/post-31502979

Perhaps it isn’t viable with RWP set higher than ~ 75%.

It depends how sensitive you are to PWM. I had an amazing experience with iPhone 13 Mini, but still got headaches to the level that I shouldn’t realistically be able to keep it. iPhone SE is fine as an alternative.