Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up

[matthijst]

Been using the 14 Pro Max for a few days now. Irritation seems to get less. Annoying thing is: I dont know if its residue irritation from testing the 14 Pro, 14 and 14 Plus, or new irritation fro the 14 Max
No headaches, but some grittyness in one eye.

Does anyone kow if you can get used to this (ie: will the grittyness at some point disappear), or is this an everlasting story? Am at the point where I think: f it, if this is it (gritty feeling), Ill live with it.

Only annoyance is that once my eye gets irritated by the phone, reular bright lights start to annoy as well. So once again: it looks like more of a brightness issue than a pwm issue for me (or a combination)

 

[dimitricook]

Been using the 14 Pro Max for a few days now. Irritation seems to get less. Annoying thing is: I dont know if its residue irritation from testing the 14 Pro, 14 and 14 Plus, or new irritation fro the 14 Max
No headaches, but some grittyness in one eye.

Does anyone kow if you can get used to this (ie: will the grittyness at some point disappear), or is this an everlasting story? Am at the point where I think: f it, if this is it (gritty feeling), Ill live with it.

Only annoyance is that once my eye gets irritated by the phone, reular bright lights start to annoy as well. So once again: it looks like more of a brightness issue than a pwm issue for me (or a combination)

Good to hear! If you don´t get headache or nausia i am pretty sure this minor gritty feeling will get away. At least this is how it worked out for me with my laptop and tv in the past..

 

[5105973]

Been using the 14 Pro Max for a few days now. Irritation seems to get less. Annoying thing is: I dont know if its residue irritation from testing the 14 Pro, 14 and 14 Plus, or new irritation fro the 14 Max
No headaches, but some grittyness in one eye.

Does anyone kow if you can get used to this (ie: will the grittyness at some point disappear), or is this an everlasting story? Am at the point where I think: f it, if this is it (gritty feeling), Ill live with it.

Only annoyance is that once my eye gets irritated by the phone, reular bright lights start to annoy as well. So once again: it looks like more of a brightness issue than a pwm issue for me (or a combination)

You’ve double checked to make sure all settings are such that the IR dots are only going to activate for password authentication only? Turn Attention Aware off, turn off Require Attention for Face ID. Having those turned on always give me that irritated gritty feeling.

Also, I can’t emphasize enough, remember to blink! Lol, seriously there can be something about using the OLED phones where I seem to blink less. I have to actually remind myself to blink. I also use eye drops in the morning, at noon and at night. It really helps. And I take a Lutein supplement for eye health.

Here is the supplement I take:



I’m hoping you will be able to enjoy the 14 Pro Max as I do. It sounds hopeful.

 

[dimitricook]

Been using the 14 Pro Max for a few days now. Irritation seems to get less. Annoying thing is: I dont know if its residue irritation from testing the 14 Pro, 14 and 14 Plus, or new irritation fro the 14 Max
No headaches, but some grittyness in one eye.

Does anyone kow if you can get used to this (ie: will the grittyness at some point disappear), or is this an everlasting story? Am at the point where I think: f it, if this is it (gritty feeling), Ill live with it.

Only annoyance is that once my eye gets irritated by the phone, reular bright lights start to annoy as well. So once again: it looks like more of a brightness issue than a pwm issue for me (or a combination)

I am also very curious how you would describe the difference with the pro max and the other 14 models?

 

[matthijst]

Got the 14 Pro first, gritty eyes. Then got the regular 14 which seemed easiest on the eyes. But the screen was annoyingly narrow compared to the 8 Plus. Got the 14 Plus after that, again some annoyances. And the 14 Pro Max last (after reading the positive comments here). Things seem to go better since I got the Pro Max.
No idea if the Max is better, of that I would've gotten used to all those phones by now.
Do remember that the X gave me terrible headaches, still, 4 weeks in.

 

[dimitricook]

Got the 14 Pro first, gritty eyes. Then got the regular 14 which seemed easiest on the eyes. But the screen was annoyingly narrow compared to the 8 Plus. Got the 14 Plus after that, again some annoyances. And the 14 Pro Max last (after reading the positive comments here). Things seem to go better since I got the Pro Max.
No idea if the Max is better, of that I would've gotten used to all those phones by now.
Do remember that the X gave me terrible headaches, still, 4 weeks in.

Cool, did you use other oled phones without problems before'?

 

[matthijst]

No, returned the X and 12 Pro

 

[dstow]

Got the 14 Pro first, gritty eyes. Then got the regular 14 which seemed easiest on the eyes. But the screen was annoyingly narrow compared to the 8 Plus. Got the 14 Plus after that, again some annoyances. And the 14 Pro Max last (after reading the positive comments here). Things seem to go better since I got the Pro Max.
No idea if the Max is better, of that I would've gotten used to all those phones by now.
Do remember that the X gave me terrible headaches, still, 4 weeks in.

What we're your main issues with the Plus? was it specifically any nausea dizziness?

 

[matthijst]

Dry eyes.

 

[dstow]

Dry eyes.

That’s a miracle given the usual nausea and brain crushing pain so are you keeping it or returning it?

 

[now i see it]

Typically (but of course not always) eyeballs that feel gritty are the result from dryness- and that dryness is often caused by not enough blinking.
Basically - staring at anything too long can cause eye irritation which is super easy to do with a new iPhone. Also inadequate water intake (dehydration) will make it much worse.
Just something to consider.

 

[madmozg]

Anyone else have any problems after this terrible experience with iphone OLED **** trying to play games on a PC or TV? I started to experience nausea with just a regular games, which a never experienced previously. I feel like my eyes are getting tired very fast.

 

[matthijst]

That’s a miracle given the usual nausea and brain crushing pain so are you keeping it or returning it?

Keeping the Pro Max.
Had the brain crushing pain with the X and 12 Pro Max.
This one seems better, so I think it's time to keep it and see how it goes.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Still having a far from ideal experience with iPhone 14 Pro Max. Staring at other displays simply reinforces that fact, particularly when watching reviews or comparisons of iPhone 14 Pro ironically on a display that doesn’t bother me like my plasma. The level of tension headaches and migraines is still unacceptable.

Suffice to say it’s going back to Apple.

 

[john g.]

Still having a far from ideal experience with iPhone 14 Pro Max. Staring at other displays simply reinforces that fact, particularly when watching reviews or comparisons of iPhone 14 Pro ironically on a display that doesn’t bother me like my plasma. The level of tension headaches and migraines is still unacceptable.

Suffice to say it’s going back to Apple.

Sorry it didn’t work out. Sounds like you were getting headaches and migraines though and that seems like that’s not gonna get any better. Still undecided about my 14 pro. Not getting any headaches but certainly there’s a bit of eyestrain and low level tension occasionally.

 

[francerex]

I got the iphone 14 yesterday. As many have reported, it is definitely better than other models. It is a till not usable though. No headaches but general eye discomfort and dizziness, a brain fog like if I had been drinking. Returning it today I think.

I also went for an eye check through work before receiving it, everything is normal..
They never heard about PWM… 😪 however they got several complaints about car infotainment panels at night, which I suspect might be related to it (e.g. I read somewhere that on Tesla model S the flickering is pretty bad)

 

[Gargamelus]

we all need to make it more public. At our company, I tell everyone about pwm. I have enforced that we only use flicker-free monitors. today everyone is happier. some colleagues admit that they get tired eyes from the iPhone display when they use it for a long time. but they all think that would be normal.. the pwm topic needs to be more public..

 

[MICHAELSD]

Sorry it didn’t work out. Sounds like you were getting headaches and migraines though and that seems like that’s not gonna get any better. Still undecided about my 14 pro. Not getting any headaches but certainly there’s a bit of eyestrain and low level tension occasionally.

I’m not sure where I was coming from previously as any active effort to use and focus on the display still leads to headaches, and eventually persistent migraines. Perhaps overly optimistic, with a dose of wishful thinking. It’s reduced from previous generations, but still not at the level where it would be practical to keep using long-term.

I may be the most sensitive of all PWM-sensitive users, so I would look to your individual symptoms and see whether they’re acceptable without negatively impacting your life or iPhone experience.

My eye strain scale is admittedly generous, and an average user experiencing what I do would probably rate the headaches on iPhone 14 Pro Max at around an 8. I’m simply comparing to 24/7 headaches on previous iPhone generations. After the dust settled, I would have to rate it higher than a 2/10.

I suppose I would have probably tried iPhone 14 Pro Max this generation after seeing how smooth the flicker appears on video, and reading Notebookcheck’s description. So at least I know now that for the most part it’s more of the same.

We still need flicker-free DC dimming, which we’re beginning to see on some OLED laptop panels. It just may be years at this point before we have it on an iPhone.

 

[user1234]

I think accurately measuring flicker is becoming harder and harder. These phones have variable refresh rates, variable brightness rates, temporal dithering etc. anyones guess how that all shows up on a measurement device. Like does the 14 pro flicker the same at 10hz and 50% brightness as it does at 120hz? Probably not… lots of variables to consider.

Which is why I test at all possible configurations when I test for flicker on my oscilloscope. Lately I've been testing flashlights and even ones marketed as flicker free have flicker at some settings. For these I test them fully charged and cold and then again after running for an hour at full power to account for thermal management. On one of them the lowest setting had 100% flicker at 1 kHz while the other settings were flicker free.

Unfortunately I don't have access to any iPhone 14 models for testing but the XR and 11 are flicker free including the flashlights function.

The MacBook Air M1 has flicker including in the keyboard backlight. Haven't seen anyone else test the keyboard backlight.

The 12 has an interesting flicker profile. 100% flicker at 240 Hz at 10% brightness, 14% flicker at 60 Hz at 50% brightness, 7% flicker at 120 Hz at 100% brightness.

But then if white point is set to 98% it instead drops to 60 Hz at 100% brightness but there's a weaker 120 Hz flicker at the same time. Unfortunately flicker also increases to 20%. With reduce white point set to 100% the background flicker basically goes away and all that's left is 60 Hz.

Notebookcheck do not do enough measurements to fully help us out.

And you're absolutely correct that accurately measuring flicker is becoming harder with lots of different modes and profiles. Not impossible though, just more tests to complete and more data to record and publish.

 

[asus389]

Which is why I test at all possible configurations when I test for flicker on my oscilloscope. Lately I've been testing flashlights and even ones marketed as flicker free have flicker at some settings. For these I test them fully charged and cold and then again after running for an hour at full power to account for thermal management. On one of them the lowest setting had 100% flicker at 1 kHz while the other settings were flicker free.

Unfortunately I don't have access to any iPhone 14 models for testing but the XR and 11 are flicker free including the flashlights function.

The MacBook Air M1 has flicker including in the keyboard backlight. Haven't seen anyone else test the keyboard backlight.

The 12 has an interesting flicker profile. 100% flicker at 240 Hz at 10% brightness, 14% flicker at 60 Hz at 50% brightness, 7% flicker at 120 Hz at 100% brightness.

But then if white point is set to 98% it instead drops to 60 Hz at 100% brightness but there's a weaker 120 Hz flicker at the same time. Unfortunately flicker also increases to 20%. With reduce white point set to 100% the background flicker basically goes away and all that's left is 60 Hz.

Notebookcheck do not do enough measurements to fully help us out.

And you're absolutely correct that accurately measuring flicker is becoming harder with lots of different modes and profiles. Not impossible though, just more tests to complete and more data to record and publish.

I’d be curious if you got a hold of an 11 Pro or 11 Pro Max. The 11 Pro Max doesn’t bother me At 100% brightness if I turn off true tone and turn on dark mode. All the other oled phones bother me no matter what.

Also, the Touch Bar and keyboard backlights do for sure flicker. I turned off the keyboard backlight on my 2017 MBp and it helped.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Which is why I test at all possible configurations when I test for flicker on my oscilloscope. Lately I've been testing flashlights and even ones marketed as flicker free have flicker at some settings. For these I test them fully charged and cold and then again after running for an hour at full power to account for thermal management. On one of them the lowest setting had 100% flicker at 1 kHz while the other settings were flicker free.

Unfortunately I don't have access to any iPhone 14 models for testing but the XR and 11 are flicker free including the flashlights function.

The MacBook Air M1 has flicker including in the keyboard backlight. Haven't seen anyone else test the keyboard backlight.

The 12 has an interesting flicker profile. 100% flicker at 240 Hz at 10% brightness, 14% flicker at 60 Hz at 50% brightness, 7% flicker at 120 Hz at 100% brightness.

But then if white point is set to 98% it instead drops to 60 Hz at 100% brightness but there's a weaker 120 Hz flicker at the same time. Unfortunately flicker also increases to 20%. With reduce white point set to 100% the background flicker basically goes away and all that's left is 60 Hz.

Notebookcheck do not do enough measurements to fully help us out.

And you're absolutely correct that accurately measuring flicker is becoming harder with lots of different modes and profiles. Not impossible though, just more tests to complete and more data to record and publish.

What about iPhone 14? I’m curious if the flicker was ~ 100% on iPhone X as well.

50% brightness on iPhone 14 doesn’t look too far off from the 100% DC dimming on the ASUS Zenbook Fold OLED:

 

[user1234]

I’d be curious if you got a hold of an 11 Pro or 11 Pro Max. The 11 Pro Max doesn’t bother me At 100% brightness if I turn off true tone and turn on dark mode. All the other oled phones bother me no matter what.

Also, the Touch Bar and keyboard backlights do for sure flicker. I turned off the keyboard backlight on my 2017 MBp and it helped.

Unfortunately I don't know anyone with any iPhone 11 Pro models. Ideally I'd test every iPhone ever released but I only have access to the 3GS, 4S, 5, 6s, X, XR and 11 and with the prices the original one is selling at these days I'm thinking I probably have to skip that one.

 

[user1234]

What about iPhone 14? I’m curious if the flicker was ~ 100% on iPhone X as well.

50% brightness on iPhone 14 doesn’t look too far off from the 100% DC dimming on the ASUS Zenbook Fold OLED:

View attachment 2097612

View attachment 2097611

I wish I had one to test because I don't really trust notebookcheck to have made enough measurements at different brightness levels and configurations. From what I've seen in their tests it looks pretty good.

I do have an iPhone X that I will be testing as soon as the previous owner finds the time to disable find my on it so I can reset it.

 

[DJTaurus]

I went to the store again. Pros give me head pressure instantly. So after my experience with 14 i am thinking to try Plus too.

 

[pwm away]

Notebookcheck have the preliminary results of the iPhone 14 Plus in their PWM list; they list it as 59Hz:

I'm curious to see what @kerplunknet finds out with his measurements; when I'm back from overseas, I'll take my meter around to an Apple Store and measure the flicker across the 14 range.

Reading the comments here over the past few weeks, it does seem like the non-Pro variants are generally better to use for us PWM-sensitive people, even though they seem to run at a lower Hz; this would also fit with the measurements I took of the 13 range (see my very first post), where the non-Pro variants had significantly lower flicker at 100% brightness.

I also did a short "pass by" test in an Apple Store here, and while using the Pro and non-Pro ones, the Pro ones would immediately give me a nice burning feeling in the eyes, whereas the non-Pro ones seemed fine for the short usage period.