Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up

[asus389]

tvOS 16.4 & iOS 16.4 have a new safety feature to protect epileptics | AppleInsider

A new accessibility option in tvOS 16.4 called Dim Flashing Lights will automatically detect flashing or strobing lights in a video, and dim the display to reduce their potential impact. Here's how to turn it on.

appleinsider.com

Has anyone seen this? I always thought it was funny how they continue to ignore the PWM yet would spend 10 seconds on TV+ shows informing me that there could be flashing lights. Maybe this means the iPhone 15 will have no PWM?

The irony about this feature is that if they dip the brightness in response to content that has flickering lights, the screen itself starts flickering more via PWM.

I wonder what this feature would do with a video taken of an iPhone with PWM taken in slow motion to show the flickering.

Anyways it’s encouraging to know they are at least thinking about light/flickering sensitivity.

 

[john g.]

Well, it's official now. I kept the iPhone 14. First OLED screen from Apple that I felt like I could do that with.

In the past I have tried the 13 mini, 13 Pro, 14 and 14+, and 14 Pro. This one is the keeper.

 

[Populus]

View attachment 2181391
Well, it's official now. I kept the iPhone 14. First OLED screen from Apple that I felt like I could do that with.

In the past I have tried the 13 mini, 13 Pro, 14 and 14+, and 14 Pro. This one is the keeper.

This post is really encouraging because I really want to get an iPhone 14, and I hope my eyes can tolerate that screen, even if I have to set screen brightness above 25% or I have to slap a matte screen protector on it.

Please keep us updated! And good luck with the device.

 

[MICHAELSD]

iPhone 14 was one of the worst for me, although in retrospect I have a profound reaction from almost any flickering Apple display. I tend to minimize my reaction as being not as bad at times.

 

[Ac1d 8urn]

Today marks the end of my return period for the 14 pro and I'm thrilled to say I'm keeping it. Solid 2 weeks of daily use with no headaches or any other symptoms 😻 NO idea how I can suddenly tolerate ProMotion, but I'm not gonna look a gift horse in the mouth lol.

 

[cgolca]

Better than IOS 16.3? Or IOS 16.1.1?
I hope that after the new update I don’t have any symptoms of dizziness

It’s better than iOS 16.3. I actually just tried iOS 16.5 Beta 1 and it was horrible. So I downgraded back to iOS 16.4 as it’s useable but not 100% symptom free like iOS 15 was for me.

 

[1369281]

I have been here from day one of the iPhone X release. I understand why PWM causes issues for many people. I understand why temporal dithering and other software-based display manipulation techniques may cause issues for some people. I understand why ProMotion and other refresh rate deviations from the traditional 60Hz frequency may cause issues for a handful of people.

I am a senior-level software engineering manager at Google, and I have worked at Amazon and Microsoft. I would be extremely surprised if changes between minor versions of iOS caused issues like the ones recently described. In my opinion, it is very unlikely that it would. Not saying it isn't possible, but it is very unlikely.

I am posting this because this thread has devolved from discussion about a proven issue (PWM) that exists in all OLED iPhones, beginning with iPhone X, to one-off issues/theories. These wild declarations reduce the legitimacy of this issue/thread/group. Someone who picks up an OLED iPhone and comes here looking for information is now seeing suspect claims instead of tenable information. It is no secret that there a handful of hypochondriacs here -- bless them, but their issues extend beyond the scope of eye-strain caused by iPhone.

It is too bad this thread isn't called "Eye-strain caused by PWM in iPhone X and up" instead.

 

[DJTaurus]

I cannot understand why those xiaomi amoleds doesn’t hurt my eyes. Poco x3 for example….

 

[DJTaurus]

I have been here from day one of the iPhone X release. I understand why PWM causes issues for many people. I understand why temporal dithering and other software-based display manipulation techniques may cause issues for some people. I understand why ProMotion and other refresh rate deviations from the traditional 60Hz frequency may cause issues for a handful of people.

I am a senior-level software engineering manager at Google, and I have worked at Amazon and Microsoft. I would be extremely surprised if changes between minor versions of iOS caused issues like the ones recently described. In my opinion, it is very unlikely that it would. Not saying it isn't possible, but it is very unlikely.

I am posting this because this thread has devolved from discussion about a proven issue (PWM) that exists in all OLED iPhones, beginning with iPhone X, to one-off issues/theories. These wild declarations reduce the legitimacy of this issue/thread/group. Someone who picks up an OLED iPhone and comes here looking for information is now seeing suspect claims instead of tenable information. It is no secret that there a handful of hypochondriacs here -- bless them, but their issues extend beyond the scope of eye-strain caused by iPhone.

It is too bad this thread isn't called "Eye-strain caused by PWM in iPhone X and up" instead.

So we are screwed ?

 

[YarosRed]

I cannot understand why those xiaomi amoleds doesn’t hurt my eyes. Poco x3 for example….

 

[MICHAELSD]

So we are screwed ?

It does seem like we are screwed regardless in the sense that Apple’s aware of the issue and yet doesn’t find it pertinent enough or that it affects enough users to prioritize a true fix for those affected.

 

[1369281]

It does seem like we are screwed regardless in the sense that Apple’s aware of the issue and yet doesn’t find it pertinent enough or that it affects enough users to prioritize a true fix for those affected.

Agreed!

I just read that iOS 17 will not support iPhone X. That illustrates how long this issue has existed. They don't care. Our voices aren't loud enough to matter to them.

MacRumors, and other Apple news sites, are guilty as well for never writing a single article about the issue in the past 6 years.

 

[Ac1d 8urn]

I have noticed one strange thing with my 14p that makes me think I'm not completely out of the woods yet- If I have a headache for an unrelated reason, I do start getting a bit of eyestrain while using my phone. Like yesterday I woke up with an awful tension headache(I'd bought a new pillow that turned out to be too firm, which kept my neck at a weird angle all night hence the headache), and I couldn't use my phone for more than a few minutes without my headache getting worse. But once the headache goes away, I'm fine using my phone again.

I'm not overly concerned, it's just kinda weird.

 

[1369281]

I have noticed one strange thing with my 14p that makes me think I'm not completely out of the woods yet- If I have a headache for an unrelated reason, I do start getting a bit of eyestrain while using my phone. Like yesterday I woke up with an awful tension headache(I'd bought a new pillow that turned out to be too firm, which kept my neck at a weird angle all night hence the headache), and I couldn't use my phone for more than a few minutes without my headache getting worse. But once the headache goes away, I'm fine using my phone again.

I'm not overly concerned, it's just kinda weird.

Two thoughts:

1. Try this pillow: Coop Home Goods Original Loft Pillow. It's the best pillow ever. You can remove or add the filling to your perfection. In my case, I removed a handful and it's perfect. Consumer Reports' #1 pillow.

2. Are headaches a normal thing for you? I feel sorry for anyone who deals with headaches regularly. That is not normal. If I get a headache, I know there is something wrong because it never happens. (Unless triggered by PWM.)

 

[Don Jose Luis Grijander]

Is not an apple problem, more Hz is the worse for your eyes, I remember the days of tube monitors when no one had eye problems because they flick a lot. The problem these ancient days were red eyes in some people, but now we are having eye focus problems due to watch a lot of hours a day high refresh rate screens with high brightness directy to your eyes.

I am using a projector now instead a computer monitor and this have change my life, because the light of the monitor reflect on the screen and is more natural, the light on the phones or the computer monitor is like to have a bulb in front of your eyes, so this creates a lot of focus problems, instead of having the light reflected on a wall.

Some of you will found this explanation crazy, but give it a try, use the phone the less possible time and change your computer monitor for a projector and you will see how your eyes become more adapted.

So the problem is caused for the contrary cause you are talking about, low flick due high hz screens. Remember old years where no one had this problems and every one uses computers and tv for long times a day, remember cinema etc.. etc... no one was having these eye problems at that time, they started to appear with LCD screens.

 

[jimmy_uk]

Is not an apple problem, more Hz is the worse for your eyes, I remember the days of tube monitors when no one had eye problems because they flick a lot. The problem these ancient days were red eyes in some people, but now we are having eye focus problems due to watch a lot of hours a day high refresh rate screens with high brightness directy to your eyes.

I am using a projector now instead a computer monitor and this have change my life, because the light of the monitor reflect on the screen and is more natural, the light on the phones or the computer monitor is like to have a bulb in front of your eyes, so this creates a lot of focus problems, instead of having the light reflected on a wall.

Some of you will found this explanation crazy, but give it a try, use the phone the less possible time and change your computer monitor for a projector and you will see how your eyes become more adapted.

So the problem is caused for the contrary cause you are talking about, low flick due high hz screens. Remember old years where no one had this problems and every one uses computers and tv for long times a day, remember cinema etc.. etc... no one was having these eye problems at that time, they started to appear with LCD screens.

Display technologies have changed a lot from the old tube monitors. You are correct that the modern device is like having a bulb in front of your eyes - it is the way these devices emit light that is the problem, especially when they are flickering/flashing into your eyes which causes them to expand and contract rapidly (leading to eye muscle fatigue and headaches).

 

[Ac1d 8urn]

Two thoughts:

1. Try this pillow: Coop Home Goods Original Loft Pillow. It's the best pillow ever. You can remove or add the filling to your perfection. In my case, I removed a handful and it's perfect. Consumer Reports' #1 pillow.

2. Are headaches a normal thing for you? I feel sorry for anyone who deals with headaches regularly. That is not normal. If I get a headache, I know there is something wrong because it never happens. (Unless triggered by PWM.)

Headaches are indeed normal for me unfortunately. I was diagnosed with optical migraines in 2010 and I also get tension headaches if I use anything but a very soft, very thin pillow. The only pillow I've ever been able to use comfortably is my old ratty one that I took half the stuffing out of. My neck sucks lol.

Thanks for the suggestion too, I'll check that one out!

 

[riskymoth]

Well, it's official now. I kept the iPhone 14. First OLED screen from Apple that I felt like I could do that with.

In the past I have tried the 13 mini, 13 Pro, 14 and 14+, and 14 Pro. This one is the keeper.

After many years with an iPhone X, I've recently moved to the 14. I found the flickering on the X problematic at times (when screen below 50% brightness), but I have to say, I've really not noticed any issue on the 14...

 

[asus389]

I have noticed one strange thing with my 14p that makes me think I'm not completely out of the woods yet- If I have a headache for an unrelated reason, I do start getting a bit of eyestrain while using my phone. Like yesterday I woke up with an awful tension headache(I'd bought a new pillow that turned out to be too firm, which kept my neck at a weird angle all night hence the headache), and I couldn't use my phone for more than a few minutes without my headache getting worse. But once the headache goes away, I'm fine using my phone again.

I'm not overly concerned, it's just kinda weird.

I have noticed a similar thing after I have a migraine headache (whatever the trigger). I'm more sensitive to light and some other sensory things including screens that I usually tolerate fine. It resolves over the next day. Migraines in particular have a phase before and after the headache that can have symptoms other than just the headache itself.

 

[john g.]

I have noticed one strange thing with my 14p that makes me think I'm not completely out of the woods yet- If I have a headache for an unrelated reason, I do start getting a bit of eyestrain while using my phone. Like yesterday I woke up with an awful tension headache(I'd bought a new pillow that turned out to be too firm, which kept my neck at a weird angle all night hence the headache), and I couldn't use my phone for more than a few minutes without my headache getting worse. But once the headache goes away, I'm fine using my phone again.

I'm not overly concerned, it's just kinda weird.

Did you have any of those symptoms with your 14+? When I was trying out all the 14 series phones, I had more symptoms with the pro line than the vanilla line.

 

[DJTaurus]

First day with iPhone 14. First hours i had slight discomfort. Things are going pretty smooth since night shift was enabled. Don’t know if that helps.

My settings are no screen protector, Face ID aware feature off, white point at 40% and brightens always at 80%.

 

[Momos]

So guys. Any tips about Ipad 12.9? I got rid of 11 inch 2022. After 3 month it got me. Maybe old models could work?

 

[1369281]

So guys. Any tips about Ipad 12.9? I got rid of 11 inch 2022. After 3 month it got me. Maybe old models could work?

iPad 10.9-inch (10th generation) does not use PWM or temporal dithering. If you believe it caused eye-strain or other discomfort, you should look at external factors.

iPad Pro 12.9-inch uses PWM and would more than likely give you discomfort.

 

[jimmy_uk]

Ever the glutton for punishment, I spent some time with my family's iPads.

Mini 6 is my fav size but it tired/strained the backs of my eyes, jelly scroll is still frustrating. I understand this has PWM.

IPP 11 M1 finished me off and gave me a headache + still has some visible jelly scroll. Reported as not having PWM. 🤷‍♂️

iPad 9 was totally fine which makes it a consideration as it might be the only iPad I can now use, but the non-laminated display and single-sided speakers hold me back despite its bargain price.

Is the iPad Air 4 OK with sensitive users? A laminated display + stereo speakers with a reasonable refurbished price make this look the better buy on paper, but I'm aware Apple added a P3 display so I'm worried about dithering.

 

[Momos]

iPad 10.9-inch (10th generation) does not use PWM or temporal dithering. If you believe it caused eye-strain or other discomfort, you should look at external factors.

iPad Pro 12.9-inch uses PWM and would more than likely give you discomfort.

No. I don't think it's pwm. I feel like it's the backlight. The white hits me the most. I had an xp pen drawing display and it had hilarious colors and the edges of the icons had really strange light. I had nausea from it. Returned after 2 weeks. Microsoft studio - return after 2 weeks.
Lenovo legion 5 pc - 2 years no problem.
Still figuring out.