Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up

[DJTaurus]

I now have an Honor Magic 5 Pro here. It has an incredibly good display, and a fantastic camera. But the best thing is the high PWM frequency of over 2000Hz. I have no complaints and the display feels just gorgeous. The smartphone itself is beyond any doubt and is in no way inferior to an iPhone 14 Pro Max. I even like the display and camera better. In tests, it is also referred to as one of the best smartphones. I will now use it as a daily driver and see what Apple does with the iPhone 15 Pro/Max. I hope finally something good regarding the PWM frequency. But now I can use an incredibly great smartphone with a state-of-the-art OLED display & camera. The only small problem is android but I can deal with that. I no longer have to use a 2.5-year-old smartphone for this.

Kudos to Honor:

Honor also claims the display has PWM dimming of 2160 Hz, which should, in theory, mean it is more comfortable on the eyes at night. PWM dimming basically allows the pixels on the display to turn on and off at a faster rate, which is different from switching data like refresh rate, in order to have better color accuracy at night.

6.81 inch 19:54:9, 2848 x 1312 pixel 460 PPI, capacitive, OLED, 2160 Hz PWM dimming, LTPO 1 - 120 Hz, glossy: yes, HDR, 120 Hz

In our measurement with the oscilloscope, we see only a constant flickering at 120 Hz. Behind this is some powerful DC dimming at 2,160 Hz, so that the eyes of the users should be protected as much as possible from the typical OLED flickering.

 

[1369281]

I now have an Honor Magic 5 Pro here. It has an incredibly good display, and a fantastic camera. But the best thing is the high PWM frequency of over 2000Hz. I have no complaints and the display feels just gorgeous. The smartphone itself is beyond any doubt and is in no way inferior to an iPhone 14 Pro Max. I even like the display and camera better. In tests, it is also referred to as one of the best smartphones. I will now use it as a daily driver and see what Apple does with the iPhone 15 Pro/Max. I hope finally something good regarding the PWM frequency. But now I can use an incredibly great smartphone with a state-of-the-art OLED display & camera. The only small problem is android but I can deal with that. I no longer have to use a 2.5-year-old smartphone for this.

NotebookCheck's review says:

"In our measurement with the oscilloscope, we see only a constant flickering at 120 Hz. Behind this is some powerful DC dimming at 2,160 Hz, so that the eyes of the users should be protected as much as possible from the typical OLED flickering."

I'm not totally sure what that means, but I'm glad it's not causing you eye-strain.

Edit: DJTaurus posted the same thing.

 

[jimmy_uk]

The Honor 5 looks great but I personally wouldn't be comfortable with this:

"Honor is a smartphone brand majority owned by a state-owned enterprise controlled by the municipal government of Shenzhen. It’s now part of the Chinese government. It was formerly owned by Huawei Technologies."

 

[siksik6]

I haven't been able to move on from an iPhone 11, but have the Honor arriving today. Dare I hope!?

 

[siksik6]

I haven't been able to move on from an iPhone 11, but have the Honor arriving today. Dare I hope!?

Well, it was probably the least bad phone I've used.. but have to return yet another device.

*sigh*

 

[PurpleIsAFruit]

iPhone 14s are £100 off on Amazon at the moment. I’m tempted to finally replace my 4 year old XR, but really don’t have much hope the 14 screen isn’t going to give me nausea and dizziness like the 13 Pro did.

If I had any hope a flagship device would be releasing any time soon with LED or a non flickering screen I’d hold off, but it’s looking less and less like that’s ever going to happen now.

 

[tomekwsrod]

(..)
Not sure why this is happening. I've tweaked with all the various displays settings (TrueTone/Night Shift/White balance), but nothing seems to make a real difference. Not using a screen protector.

Anyone else?

PWM. Increase the brightness to almost max, in the accessibility settings set white point to darken screen. See if it helps. https://osxdaily.com/2021/05/14/workaround-pwm-oled-iphone-ipad/

 

[dimitricook]

I did test the frequency of the iPhone 14 with my new Opple light meter and discovered that on all brightness levels it measures 480hz instead of the by Notebookcheck measured 60hz.

Brightness percentage	Flicker index	Modulation depth	Frequency	Risk
25	0.11	59%	480	High
50	0.10	53%	480	High / Low
100	0.05	27%	480	Low

 

[1369281]

I did test the frequency of the iPhone 14 with my new Opple light meter and discovered that on all brightness levels it measures 480hz instead of the by Notebookcheck measured 60hz.

Brightness percentage	Flicker index	Modulation depth	Frequency	Risk
25	0.11	59%	480	High
50	0.10	53%	480	High / Low
100	0.05	27%	480	Low

I have an Opple Light Master Pro 3 (version 4 was just released this past week, by the way).

It’s a great product, but I have seen it be totally inaccurate at times. I am not saying it’s wrong here, but just take any results with a grain of salt.

Regardless, 480Hz PWM is way too low.

 

[siksik6]

I did test the frequency of the iPhone 14 with my new Opple light meter and discovered that on all brightness levels it measures 480hz instead of the by Notebookcheck measured 60hz.

Brightness percentage	Flicker index	Modulation depth	Frequency	Risk
25	0.11	59%	480	High
50	0.10	53%	480	High / Low
100	0.05	27%	480	Low

I have a light master too, and very different interpretations of what's low/high risk. Anything over 10% seems to be unacceptable to my eyes.

 

[siksik6]

I have an Opple Light Master Pro 3 (version 4 was just released this past week, by the way).

It’s a great product, but I have seen it be totally inaccurate at times. I am not saying it’s wrong here, but just take any results with a grain of salt.

Regardless, 480Hz PWM is way too low.

We should definitely form an Oppe lightmaster group chat or something 😂

 

[1369281]

According to the Opple Light Master Pro 3, the sun (at 12:54 PM EDT) is the following:

Flicker index: 0.0019
Modulation depth: 0.49%
Frequency: 15269

CCT (color temperature): 5614K
Ra (CRI, color rendering index): 100
Duv (Delta uv, "tint"): 0.0042

I guess the sun uses PWM.

We're getting a little off topic now.

 

[MICHAELSD]

I did test the frequency of the iPhone 14 with my new Opple light meter and discovered that on all brightness levels it measures 480hz instead of the by Notebookcheck measured 60hz.

Brightness percentage	Flicker index	Modulation depth	Frequency	Risk
25	0.11	59%	480	High
50	0.10	53%	480	High / Low
100	0.05	27%	480	Low

Modulation depth is far too high.

 

[MICHAELSD]

I will admit that I'll probably pre-order some variation of iPhone 15 Pro/Ultra hoping for the best but not really expecting it.

It's at the point where it's too soon to the next release for it to be practical to replace my iPhone SE just yet, even if the A15 Bionic makes it feel perfectly modern.

 

[PutinLivesMatter]

After reading through a million pages of people talking about phones like iphone 14 that are already known to have PWM then buying and returning five of them in a row for no reason, I'll save you the trouble for whoever reads this:

1) I've used everything from Iphone 11 to iphone 6, Iphone 8 plus, etc, and the ONLY devices that feel normal and cause no weird strain effects to your eyes where you can look at them like a quality desktop monitor for me so far are:

a) Ipad Air 1 (uses LG IGZO I believe)

b) Other non-laminated, base model ipads (but their contrast ratio is crap compared to Ipad Air 1 so if ALL YOU WANT is an e-reader then the 2013 Ipad Air 1 is probably the best they released just for reading text)

c) Pre-wide color gamut screens like Iphone 6 4.7" and above mentioned Air1 (not sure about 6 plus--haven't used it personally--but know the 4.7" is great and is used in handheld devices like Retroid Pocket 3+ which also cause me zero eye discomfort).

2) The iphone 11 is not a solution and neither is the Iphone 8 Plus. I haven't tried the non-plus 8, but the 8 Plus gave me that standard, kind of a small stinging sensation in the eyes (not huge, but it's there). So basically the only thing I haven't tried is the non-plus 7 and 8 (feel free to comment on those). If the 8 Plus has multiple screen vendors that might present another problem and different results for different people.

The Iphone 11 seems to sneak up on you more giving you a bit different eye discomfort/stinging + also some slight dizziness if you use it several hours straight that you don't get on an actual good desktop monitor. The effects of the 8 Plus seemed like the discomfort was all eye-based instead without any mild dizziness over time but it's kinda the equivalent of asking what type of mild torture device do you prefer to be subjected to.

3) Tablets like Samsung S7 11" LCD seem good on the eyes, but factory calibrations are bad (yellow/green tints and harder to fix them than IOS) with text also being harder to read than on the 9.7", non-pro Ipads so they aren't good e-readers. For watching movies the displays seem excellent, though.

4) And here is where I discuss another issue people haven't figured out yet. YEARS ago I noticed if I placed a laptop on my stomach while working on it, it always made my stomach start to grumble almost instantly (not thermal issue - device not even hot).

The EMF put out by these devices probably also contributes to problems and discomfort. When wifi routers were released they had warning labels that you're supposed to keep the device five feet or more away from your body (inverse square falloff law). So having massive EMF generating phones against your head is probably a bad idea. There's a reason real estate next to huge power lines have low value and it's not just aesthetics.

 

[now i see it]

The iphone 11 is not a solution and neither is the Iphone 8 Plus

I use an iPhone 8 Plus and its a nightmare of obscene over saturated LSD colors. Gawd it’s horrible. I used to think it was better than the 6 Plus - unit I started developing heart arrhythmia when using it.
I’m convinced it’s because of temporal dithering. Older phones didn’t have that.
My only savior is to use it in grayscale exclusively. That works.

 

[john g.]

.

 

[sorgo †]

I guess the sun uses PWM.

 

[PutinLivesMatter]

I never know what's gonna work until I try it. I can use my 11, and surprisingly my 14 doesn't really bother me [had it for almost two months now] but it's not the first one I've tried.

Messages like this are what cause confusion in these threads. The Iphone 11 DOES NOT instantly attack your eyes only looking at it for five minutes in a row. The worst PWM laptop I've ever used took probably a solid ten minutes straight of looking at it before you really started to feel it and it begins to mess you up.

Both iphone 11 and 14 take longer to attack you than those dumpster laptops, but the end result is a frog boiling in the pot attack that's harder for normies to diagnose exactly what's going on and are unaware that the slight dizziness you feel walking around in the grocery store was caused by looking at the iphone 11 screen for several hours straight.

If all you do is occasionally glance at a stock ticker for 5 minutes or less, you can probably use almost any phone.

 

[asus389]

After reading through a million pages of people talking about phones like iphone 14 that are already known to have PWM then buying and returning five of them in a row for no reason, I'll save you the trouble for whoever reads this:

1) I've used everything from Iphone 11 to iphone 6, Iphone 8 plus, etc, and the ONLY devices that feel normal and cause no weird strain effects to your eyes where you can look at them like a quality desktop monitor for me so far are:

a) Ipad Air 1 (uses LG IGZO I believe)

b) Other non-laminated, base model ipads (but their contrast ratio is crap compared to Ipad Air 1 so if ALL YOU WANT is an e-reader then the 2013 Ipad Air 1 is probably the best they released just for reading text)

c) Pre-wide color gamut screens like Iphone 6 4.7" and above mentioned Air1 (not sure about 6 plus--haven't used it personally--but know the 4.7" is great and is used in handheld devices like Retroid Pocket 3+ which also cause me zero eye discomfort).

2) The iphone 11 is not a solution and neither is the Iphone 8 Plus. I haven't tried the non-plus 8, but the 8 Plus gave me that standard, kind of a small stinging sensation in the eyes (not huge, but it's there). So basically the only thing I haven't tried is the non-plus 7 and 8 (feel free to comment on those). If the 8 Plus has multiple screen vendors that might present another problem and different results for different people.

The Iphone 11 seems to sneak up on you more giving you a bit different eye discomfort/stinging + also some slight dizziness if you use it several hours straight that you don't get on an actual good desktop monitor. The effects of the 8 Plus seemed like the discomfort was all eye-based instead without any mild dizziness over time but it's kinda the equivalent of asking what type of mild torture device do you prefer to be subjected to.

3) Tablets like Samsung S7 11" LCD seem good on the eyes, but factory calibrations are bad (yellow/green tints and harder to fix them than IOS) with text also being harder to read than on the 9.7", non-pro Ipads so they aren't good e-readers. For watching movies the displays seem excellent, though.

4) And here is where I discuss another issue people haven't figured out yet. YEARS ago I noticed if I placed a laptop on my stomach while working on it, it always made my stomach start to grumble almost instantly (not thermal issue - device not even hot).

The EMF put out by these devices probably also contributes to problems and discomfort. When wifi routers were released they had warning labels that you're supposed to keep the device five feet or more away from your body (inverse square falloff law). So having massive EMF generating phones against your head is probably a bad idea. There's a reason real estate next to huge power lines have low value and it's not just aesthetics.

I agree, the pre True Tone/pre P3 LCDs were the easiest to look at. The iPhone 6S was really good. The iPad 8th gen was also good. Starting with the iPhone 8 they got more irritating. The LCD phones after that were better in a lot of ways than the OLED screens because they didn’t have PWM, but they weren’t as good as the earlier ones.

I’ve found the same with the laptops. My 2017 MBP non Touch Bar has a basic LCD without P3 or Truetone and it’s really easy on the eyes. Newer ones aren’t as good.

 

[jimmy_uk]

After reading through a million pages of people talking about phones like iphone 14 that are already known to have PWM then buying and returning five of them in a row for no reason, I'll save you the trouble for whoever reads this:

1) I've used everything from Iphone 11 to iphone 6, Iphone 8 plus, etc, and the ONLY devices that feel normal and cause no weird strain effects to your eyes where you can look at them like a quality desktop monitor for me so far are:

a) Ipad Air 1 (uses LG IGZO I believe)

b) Other non-laminated, base model ipads (but their contrast ratio is crap compared to Ipad Air 1 so if ALL YOU WANT is an e-reader then the 2013 Ipad Air 1 is probably the best they released just for reading text)

c) Pre-wide color gamut screens like Iphone 6 4.7" and above mentioned Air1 (not sure about 6 plus--haven't used it personally--but know the 4.7" is great and is used in handheld devices like Retroid Pocket 3+ which also cause me zero eye discomfort).

2) The iphone 11 is not a solution and neither is the Iphone 8 Plus. I haven't tried the non-plus 8, but the 8 Plus gave me that standard, kind of a small stinging sensation in the eyes (not huge, but it's there). So basically the only thing I haven't tried is the non-plus 7 and 8 (feel free to comment on those). If the 8 Plus has multiple screen vendors that might present another problem and different results for different people.

The Iphone 11 seems to sneak up on you more giving you a bit different eye discomfort/stinging + also some slight dizziness if you use it several hours straight that you don't get on an actual good desktop monitor. The effects of the 8 Plus seemed like the discomfort was all eye-based instead without any mild dizziness over time but it's kinda the equivalent of asking what type of mild torture device do you prefer to be subjected to.

3) Tablets like Samsung S7 11" LCD seem good on the eyes, but factory calibrations are bad (yellow/green tints and harder to fix them than IOS) with text also being harder to read than on the 9.7", non-pro Ipads so they aren't good e-readers. For watching movies the displays seem excellent, though.

4) And here is where I discuss another issue people haven't figured out yet. YEARS ago I noticed if I placed a laptop on my stomach while working on it, it always made my stomach start to grumble almost instantly (not thermal issue - device not even hot).

The EMF put out by these devices probably also contributes to problems and discomfort. When wifi routers were released they had warning labels that you're supposed to keep the device five feet or more away from your body (inverse square falloff law). So having massive EMF generating phones against your head is probably a bad idea. There's a reason real estate next to huge power lines have low value and it's not just aesthetics.

So many variables. I cannot use any of the OLED iPhones. The iPhone 11 didn't work for me in the past as I felt like I could see a shimmery effect that irritated my eyes - the one I have now thankfully is fine (my 7 Plus died so I needed an iPhone). 🤷‍♂️

I also cannot use any of the new Pro iPads from 2018 onwards but the iPad 9 feels fine (but I don't own one as I want a Pro and I'm not settling).

I'm yet to own a Macbook but I would like a MBA M2. I've not committed due to reading comments about eyestrain with the MB's.

Screen lottery is real.

 

[PwmMen]

Yes, I wanted to stay with the Honor Magic 5 Pro, but have now sold it again. I tolerated the display relatively well, but I can't use Android. I just miss the excellent interaction of all Apple devices. There are so many little things that I just don't have with an Android smartphone. Therefore, my iPhone 12 Pro remains, which I tolerate 100%. What remains is the hope that the iPhone 15 or iPhone 15 Pro won't hurt my eyes. Hope dies last. But one thing I've learned, Android just doesn't make me happy.

 

[DJTaurus]

Yes, I wanted to stay with the Honor Magic 5 Pro, but have now sold it again. I tolerated the display relatively well, but I can't use Android. I just miss the excellent interaction of all Apple devices. There are so many little things that I just don't have with an Android smartphone. Therefore, my iPhone 12 Pro remains, which I tolerate 100%. What remains is the hope that the iPhone 15 or iPhone 15 Pro won't hurt my eyes. Hope dies last. But one thing I've learned, Android just doesn't make me happy.

I have heard also other people that only 12 pro worked for them for some reason. I am curious if there is anyone else too ?

 

[DJTaurus]

Anyone else with 12 pro (not the max) success??

 

[PutinLivesMatter]

I think the dangers of new screens like the Iphone 11 might be severely understated. I was doing some testing and after using an Iphone 6s 4.7" for several hours I can switch my eyes to looking at my PC monitor and pretty much instantly focus on the text and begin reading it (meaning switching your eyes from the phone to PC screen with 0 delay - not standing up to walk over somewhere else).

If I do the same thing with my Iphone 11, all the text on webpages is out of focus like your eyes are in some weird dilation experiment and it takes time before you can even focus to read it normally. Whereas mentioned above, you can kinda switch from 6s to PC monitor seamlessly without any weird delay in being able to focus your eyes properly.

Is this problem specifically due to 8+2bit (or whatever it is) dithering in new panels? I kind of have my doubts since Samsung TN panels with 6+2bit dithering never caused problems for me. If it's due to dithering it would have to be some wildly different dithering method from what's used in TN panels. So the issue is probably something else. Maybe even the specific type of LEDs used in wide gamut panels, or a race to the bottom in Chinese supply chains with just bad LED backlights in general.

It might also be possible that they're thinning these films used in the screens themselves each year so that it requires less power to emit light through them. Make them thin enough and since LEDs are highly concentrated instead of diffuse light, it might be like staring directly at the sun or a laser with older films blocking more of the high intensity peaking of light. The white levels on the Iphone 11 screen are abnormally bright compared to darker tones. It feels like it might be a part of the problem.