Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up

[kargurin]

Yes. I ordered last year, I won't this year. Until we get reviews from our august members here and I'm able to put eyes on it in store. In the meantime I continue to look at the Moto Razr Plus....saw it in store today and was smitten. It is a TALL phone. They have that flicker free setting so they are trying. Apple is NOT trying.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Yes. I ordered last year, I won't this year. Until we get reviews from our august members here and I'm able to put eyes on it in store. In the meantime I continue to look at the Moto Razr Plus....saw it in store today and was smitten. It is a TALL phone. They have that flicker free setting so they are trying. Apple is NOT trying.

My issue with the ‘flicker-free’ settings is that there usually is some degree of flicker, although Android Central called the Moto Edge the best smartphone for PWM-sensitive users. Thanks for mentioning that the Razr (who thought we’d be typing that in 2023?) also has a ‘flicker-free’ mode.

Upon doing research I don’t really want an Android but I want to move on from my iPhone SE, and the PWM-free options are limited. Maybe we’ll get lucky with one of the iPhone models this year; then again, it’s more likely that this is another year we’ll have to sit out.

There are some manufacturers adding higher PWM rates up to 1920Hz as well as the so-called DC dimming modes which still exhibit some flicker, but I’m not confident that even this will be enough.

 

[kargurin]

The Razr foldable is $999. It ain't cheap but I am leery about spending more on a phone I won't be using alot. Would love the new iPhone Pro Max at 6.7 inches but at $1,999 for 256gb it's got to be headache free. The Razr foldable is 6.9 inches. I'm at a different place I was at last year. No more security updates for the Note 10+ so I have no choice but get a new phone.

 

[PwmMen]

I don't have much hope when I read in the other thread that the iPhone 15 Pro Max has a PWM frequency of 480Hz.
That will be far too little to make us happy.

 

[melliflu]

Here's how the iPhones 15 supposed 480hz PWM frequency compares with Notebookcheck list of iPhones OLED PWM:

	Model			PWM
	Apple iPhone 13	2532x1170	OLED	610
	Apple iPhone 13 mini	2340x1080	OLED	510
	Apple iPhone 13 Pro	2532x1170	OLED	510
	Apple iPhone 11 Pro	2436x1125	OLED	290.7
	Apple iPhone 12 Pro	2532x1170	OLED	277.8
	Apple iPhone 12 mini	2340x1080	OLED	250
	Apple iPhone 11 Pro Max	2688x1242	OLED	245.1
	Apple iPhone 14 Pro Max	2796x1290	Super Retina XDR OLED	240.9
	Apple iPhone XS	2436x1125	OLED	240.4
	Apple iPhone X	2436x1125	Super AMOLED	240
	Apple iPhone Xs Max	2688x1242	OLED	240
	Apple iPhone 14 Pro	2556x1179	Super Retina XDR OLED	240
	Apple iPhone 13 Pro Max	2778x1284	OLED	238.1
	Apple iPhone 12 Pro Max	2778x1284	OLED	238
	Apple iPhone 12	2532x1170	OLED	226.2
	Apple iPhone 14	2532x1170	OLED	60
	Apple iPhone 14 Plus	2778x1284	OLED	60

 

[DJTaurus]

I don't have much hope when I read in the other thread that the iPhone 15 Pro Max has a PWM frequency of 480Hz.
That will be far too little to make us happy.

I am curious what’s the frequency on 12 pro.

 

[1369281]

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/480-hz-pwm.2401832/

Thanks for sharing this. I would be surprised if the PWM frequencies were actually 480Hz for all models. I didn’t watch the video too closely, but how did they measure those numbers?

Regardless, 480Hz is very low. I am probably unlike most people here, but I refuse to use an iPhone that has any PWM at all. I won’t support that.

And just like with the iPhone 12 radiation mess Apple was exposed on and then immediately released a software update to “fix,” Apple does not have our best interests in mind in terms of health.

 

[Danconia]

Just a quick reminder as to my situation.

An iphone 12 pro triggered a neurology issue. I now have a cronic condition called NDPH and take a variety of prescription drugs and botox injections into my scalp to keep my pain manageable. My neurologist stated he seeing a lot more cases in recent years and he believes excessive exposure to screens could definitely be a contributing factor.

I am a very rare case admittedly, but if you feel the burning/nausea etc, dont give the device any longer. Stop and return it.

Best of luck with the 15's, I'll be watching from the sidelines....

Wow. I was one of the first people in this thread and have a bunch of different iPhone 8 Plusses since…Sad. I rely on all of you to give the all safe sign of whether I can finally get a current phone. Cannot believe this is still going on, what 6 years later.

Abi, your message struck me because my sister has been dealing with something very similar to you and she also has an iPhone 12 Pro. Have you or your doctor ever considered the radiation issue that France is now reporting?

 

[jm31828]

Who else gets unreasonably excited once they realize new iPhone pre-orders started? I was making coffee and it perked me up a little bit.

Thankfully, iPhone 15 Pro models are sold-out until October/November. It will be much better to wait and if I’m so inclined to try one I’m sure picking it up at a local Apple Store won’t be too much of a big deal. Then again I’ll be hanging on to any inkling of hope, such as Notebookcheck stating “iPhone 15 Pro Max enters a 480Hz DC dimming mode above 25% brightness, which reduces the effect of PWM for all but the most sensitive users.”

Also hi, it’s me, one of the most sensitive users.

I am there with you on that! Even if I am not buying at launch, it's kind of exciting in the moment and to be watching all of the discussion, as I myself still waffle on ordering one or not. lol

 

[jm31828]

Yes. I ordered last year, I won't this year. Until we get reviews from our august members here and I'm able to put eyes on it in store. In the meantime I continue to look at the Moto Razr Plus....saw it in store today and was smitten. It is a TALL phone. They have that flicker free setting so they are trying. Apple is NOT trying.

Any idea how the flicker free/reduction setting really works, technically?
Is the PWM frequency really high, or maybe almost no PWM at all when that setting is enabled?

 

[kargurin]

I technically don't know how it works. Only that the setting raises the PWM frequency 720Hz.

 

[Abiyork]

Abi, your message struck me because my sister has been dealing with something very similar to you and she also has an iPhone 12 Pro. Have you or your doctor ever considered the radiation issue that France is now reporting?

I’d not heard about the radiation issue until just recently.

Mine was def just the PWM, my neuro, who is an award winning headache neuro in the UK was very interested when I described what could have triggered it, he’d never heard of PWM and googled it infront of me and you could see the penny dropping as he read about it.

 

[Heman87]

Here's how the iPhones 15 supposed 480hz PWM frequency compares with Notebookcheck list of iPhones OLED PWM:

	Model			PWM
	Apple iPhone 13	2532x1170	OLED	610
	Apple iPhone 13 mini	2340x1080	OLED	510
	Apple iPhone 13 Pro	2532x1170	OLED	510
	Apple iPhone 11 Pro	2436x1125	OLED	290.7
	Apple iPhone 12 Pro	2532x1170	OLED	277.8
	Apple iPhone 12 mini	2340x1080	OLED	250
	Apple iPhone 11 Pro Max	2688x1242	OLED	245.1
	Apple iPhone 14 Pro Max	2796x1290	Super Retina XDR OLED	240.9
	Apple iPhone XS	2436x1125	OLED	240.4
	Apple iPhone X	2436x1125	Super AMOLED	240
	Apple iPhone Xs Max	2688x1242	OLED	240
	Apple iPhone 14 Pro	2556x1179	Super Retina XDR OLED	240
	Apple iPhone 13 Pro Max	2778x1284	OLED	238.1
	Apple iPhone 12 Pro Max	2778x1284	OLED	238
	Apple iPhone 12	2532x1170	OLED	226.2
	Apple iPhone 14	2532x1170	OLED	60
	Apple iPhone 14 Plus	2778x1284	OLED	60

How accurate is this? Because last year I googled iphone 14 & 14 pro PWM and saw lot of other results. Furthermore i had an ok experience with the 14p (with reduced white point enebled on). Which with the iPhone 12 i had a headache within 5 minutes. And the PWM is more noticable if you do a PWM check with a slowmotion video.

That being said if this is truth and its the double PWM of the iPhone 14 pro that gives me lot of good hopes. But i really hope the 15pro has a pwm above 1000hz

 

[melliflu]

The accuracy of these mesures are discutable. The table should show PWM frequencies at 100%, 50%, 25% brightness with different screen settings too (night shift etc) And I suppose software updates can modify these frequencies over time?
It should be more of a concern, maybe 1% of users are sensitive and know why but how many don't have a clue? How many kids take aspirin because they stare at these screens at night?

 

[1369281]

I am a bit surprised we have never had a subject matter expert chime in on this situation in nearly 7 years of this thread existing. I am a member of many other forums, and at some point, an engineer who deeply understands the issue will provide information to the community.

On the topic of iPhone and PWM, I have never seen someone contribute in that way. Many of us are technologically savvy, and some of us, including myself, have been involved with software engineering and related areas for decades. I would love to see a hardware engineer who has experience with displays provide his or her thoughts on this topic. My brother-in-law is an electrical engineer, but he thinks in terms of buildings and structure versus computers and devices.

It would be amazing if someone from one of the Asian panel manufacturers could provide an overview of why PWM is still being used, how it's being used in various iPhones, and answer some of our other questions.

 

[now i see it]

Likely because of NDA contracts.
(non disclosure agreement)

 

[1369281]

Likely because of NDA contracts.
(non disclosure agreement)

I was not referring to confidential or propriety information. On other forums, engineers provide information all of the time without violating NDAs.

For example, someone should be able to accurately measure PWM frequency for each iPhone model or tell us why that isn't easy to do. Is there such thing as variable frequency for PWM in these displays? More information about how duty cycles and ripple voltage effect things. Why are we seemingly stuck at 600Hz maximum frequency with PWM in displays like this? I'm not someone who can effectively speak on this matter, and I don't have all of our questions handy, but I hope you understand what I am getting at. It just seems like we are all headless chickens running around while having discussions about this topic.

Lastly, a SME does not need to work for a company associated with Apple. He or she can simply have industry experience; a background in this field.

 

[kargurin]

How accurate is this? Because last year I googled iphone 14 & 14 pro PWM and saw lot of other results. Furthermore i had an ok experience with the 14p (with reduced white point enebled on). Which with the iPhone 12 i had a headache within 5 minutes. And the PWM is more noticable if you do a PWM check with a slowmotion video.

That being said if this is truth and its the double PWM of the iPhone 14 pro that gives me lot of good hopes. But i really hope the 15pro has a pwm above 1000hz

I was at Verizon today mostly interested in the Motorolas but they do not offer the flip phone. So I moved on the the old iPhones and was surprised that the Pro was definitely easier on my eyes than the Max. I've always purchased the largest phone but after my experience today the Pro will be in play. I was not even thinking about comparing the Pro with the Max in the past but now I see I should have. I'll be looking at the demo Pros next week.

 

[now i see it]

the Pro was definitely easier on my eyes than the Max.

I believe in the conspiracy theory of screen lottery. Not all the screens of a certain model of iPhone are identical.
A Pro on display might look better than the ProMax next to it — in that store, but a ProMax may look better than a Pro on display in another store.

As has been mentioned here several times — the only way to find out if the phone you want will bother you is buy it and see. Maybe that phone will nail you or maybe not ..... but maybe another one from a different batch will be fine.
It’s a lottery.

 

[du57in]

I am a bit surprised we have never had a subject matter expert chime in on this situation in nearly 7 years of this thread existing. I am a member of many other forums, and at some point, an engineer who deeply understands the issue will provide information to the community.

On the topic of iPhone and PWM, I have never seen someone contribute in that way. Many of us are technologically savvy, and some of us, including myself, have been involved with software engineering and related areas for decades. I would love to see a hardware engineer who has experience with displays provide his or her thoughts on this topic. My brother-in-law is an electrical engineer, but he thinks in terms of buildings and structure versus computers and devices.

It would be amazing if someone from one of the Asian panel manufacturers could provide an overview of why PWM is still being used, how it's being used in various iPhones, and answer some of our other questions.

Absolutely this. I’ve tried looking around at some other forums, like Blur Busters, but it quickly goes over my head.

I wonder if starting a private dialogue with some of the researches who you often see cited in papers about PWM would be helpful.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Tempted to pre-order… tempted to pre-order… tempted to pre-order.

 

[pwm away]

The table should show PWM frequencies at 100%, 50%, 25% brightness with different screen settings too (night shift etc)

I thought I'd share some of my older posts, where I tried to measure most iPhone models at different settings (using a Radex Lupin meter):

Models up to iPhone 13
iPhone 14 range

Sadly, I didn't get to test the iPhone 12 Pro, but looking at my tables again, the iPhone 12 seemed to be the best overall ... perhaps that is one aspect of why so many people seem to handle it well enough.

 

[1369281]

I thought I'd share some of my older posts, where I tried to measure most iPhone models at different settings (using a Radex Lupin meter):

Models up to iPhone 13
iPhone 14 range

Sadly, I didn't get to test the iPhone 12 Pro, but looking at my tables again, the iPhone 12 seemed to be the best overall ... perhaps that is one aspect of why so many people seem to handle it well enough.

Your contributions are extremely appreciated. Can't wait to see your results for the iPhone 15 models!

 

[jm31828]

Tempted to pre-order… tempted to pre-order… tempted to pre-order.

Same here! I hear enough about how the regular 14 was good for a lot of people, so I keep wanting to go ahead and preorder the 15 and just see how it goes. But, it's such a hassle and I would hate to get excited for it and then be disappointed and have to return it.

 

[john g.]

Same here! I hear enough about how the regular 14 was good for a lot of people, so I keep wanting to go ahead and preorder the 15 and just see how it goes. But, it's such a hassle and I would hate to get excited for it and then be disappointed and have to return it.

It seems to me that the iPhone 15 screen has more in common with the 14 pro than the 14. The dimensions are exactly the same and the brightness is the same. It's just slacks promotion and of course, the always on display.
In other words, who knows what the PWM scenario I will be for the regular 15 compared to the regular 14?