Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up

[2mw2]

I understand that some of you are experiencing headaches/eyestrain with SE 2022 and 11 LCD due maybe to dithering Have you tried the following

https://appleinsider.com/articles/1...will-lead-to-more-faithful-color-reproduction

talks about the wide colour gamut and possibly what the display is doing to display "more" colours and there is an image about a third of the way down

https://webkit.org/blog-files/color-gamut/Webkit-logo-P3.png

where you can see the logo in the red box

if you enable Smart Invert - the colours become a bit off but you will notice the logo in the above webkit logo will disappear. I don't know if dithering is turned off but if some of you are sensitive it maybe something you can play with around with and might give you some relief.

On my studio display I set the display as "Internet & Web (sRGB)" and it certainly feels more comfortable when I am on the screen for longer stints.

 

[ocean10]

To me se3 is like oleds.

Have you tried an SE3 on an older version of iOS? (iOS 15 or early iOS 16 releases?)

 

[Jcmwwe]

Have you tried an SE3 on an older version of iOS? (iOS 15 or early iOS 16 releases?)

How can u do that if the se3 comes with ios17 already in it now?

 

[ocean10]

How can u do that if the se3 comes with ios17 already in it now?

I'm not sure if it's possible without finding someone who hasn't updated. Potentially you could buy a refurbished one but I'm not sure it will let you set up the phone without updating. I was more curious if when you tested the phone was it when it first came out (would have iOS 15 on it) or if you had just tested it recently.

It seems as if something changed on one of the releases between iOS 16.1.1 and iOS 16.5 that made previously "good" devices unusable for people. For some of us those were the last Apple products we could use. As far as I can find there doesn't seem to be anything documented from Apple so it's a mystery that speaking for myself I'm pretty desperate to solve.

 

[Jcmwwe]

I'm not sure if it's possible without finding someone who hasn't updated. Potentially you could buy a refurbished one but I'm not sure it will let you set up the phone without updating. I was more curious if when you tested the phone was it when it first came out (would have iOS 15 on it) or if you had just tested it recently.

It seems as if something changed on one of the releases between iOS 16.1.1 and iOS 16.5 that made previously "good" devices unusable for people. For some of us those were the last Apple products we could use. As far as I can find there doesn't seem to be anything documented from Apple so it's a mystery that speaking for myself I'm pretty desperate to solve.

I am currently using a se2 with older iOS but wanted to get a se3 or 11 but it sucks because that comes with ios17 on it now. So will probably just have to replacement my battery and keep this.

 

[DJTaurus]

Have you tried an SE3 on an older version of iOS? (iOS 15 or early iOS 16 releases?)

Unfortunately not.

 

[MICHAELSD]

iPhone 15 is definitely significantly worse than iPhone 15 Plus for me personally, which I was able to note simply by doing a FaceID scan for an Apple Vision Pro demo. I got instant migraines from using iPhone 15 at ~ 50% brightness as opposed to the store demos which default to 100%. It’s difficult to determine which sources are accurate nowadays, as Notebookcheck notes a 306Hz frequency for iPhone 15 and 60Hz for iPhone 15 Plus, so it is possible they’re more different. I’d have to upgrade my ranking to: iPhone 15 Plus, iPhone 15 Pro Max, iPhone 15, iPhone 15 Pro.

The good news is that I noticed little-to-no PWM sensitivity from Apple Vision Pro. I wasn’t expecting to have a profound headache response as assumedly Apple Vision Pro has one singular brightness level, with headway for HDR highlights.

Not all flickering is equal, and I’ll continue to iterate that the first few generations of Apple Watch have a virtually flawless PWM implementation. This was solved on OLED when Apple Watch was introduced. It’s the brightness controller, not the size, that makes it as comfortable as an LCD display. Imagine if they stuck with that direction and this wasn’t an issue at all.

 

[ocean10]

iPhone 15 is definitely significantly worse than iPhone 15 Plus for me personally, which I was able to note simply by doing a FaceID scan for an Apple Vision Pro demo. I got instant migraines from using iPhone 15 at ~ 50% brightness as opposed to the store demos which default to 100%. It’s difficult to determine which sources are accurate nowadays, as Notebookcheck notes a 306Hz frequency for iPhone 15 and 60Hz for iPhone 15 Plus, so it is possible they’re more different. I’d have to upgrade my ranking to: iPhone 15 Plus, iPhone 15 Pro Max, iPhone 15, iPhone 15 Pro.

The good news is that I noticed little-to-no PWM sensitivity from Apple Vision Pro. I wasn’t expecting to have a profound headache response as assumedly Apple Vision Pro has one singular brightness level, with headway for HDR highlights.

Not all flickering is equal, and I’ll continue to iterate that the first few generations of Apple Watch have a virtually flawless PWM implementation. This was solved on OLED when Apple Watch was introduced. It’s the brightness controller, not the size, that makes it as comfortable as an LCD display. Imagine if they stuck with that direction and this wasn’t an issue at all.

Just commenting here on the Apple watch. All the OLED phones absolutely destroy me. Immediate symptoms. But I have an Apple Watch Series 6 that doesn't bother me AT ALL. I've put it close to my eyes, stared at it, etc. and no strain. I don't understand it.

(Unfortunately, glancing at some of the newer Apple Watches in a meeting today there might be some of the new ones that do create symptoms. From a distance a few of them looked "off" not unlike how the OLED iPhones look for me.)

 

[Jcmwwe]

Just commenting here on the Apple watch. All the OLED phones absolutely destroy me. Immediate symptoms. But I have an Apple Watch Series 6 that doesn't bother me AT ALL. I've put it close to my eyes, stared at it, etc. and no strain. I don't understand it.

(Unfortunately, glancing at some of the newer Apple Watches in a meeting today there might be some of the new ones that do create symptoms. From a distance a few of them looked "off" not unlike how the OLED iPhones look for me.)

Some Apple watch have this issue also?

 

[MICHAELSD]

Some Apple watch have this issue also?

I wouldn’t be surprised if the newer Apple Watches with 1,000+ nit brightness levels have more sophisticated PWM, as opposed to the best-in-class implementation on earlier generations.

 

[Jcmwwe]

I wouldn’t be surprised if the newer Apple Watches with 1,000+ nit brightness levels have more sophisticated PWM, as opposed to the best-in-class implementation on earlier generations.

How far of a model of watch would be safe then?

 

[Heman87]

Did anyone test the oneplus 12?

 

[MICHAELSD]

How far of a model of watch would be safe then?

The only models I can say with certainty that are 100% fine for PWM-sensitive users are Series 0-4, and the only current model much like the iPhone is Apple Watch SE.

Upon looking further into it, it does seem that up to Series 8 still utilizes an ultra-low-modulation 60Hz flicker. Notebookcheck measured a 310Hz PWM rate for Series 9 with its 2000 nits of peak brightness, so this is where it probably begins to deviate for the standard models likely for the worst for those who are sensitive to flickering.

However, less consideration is given into Apple Watch PWM so it would be smarter to try a newer Watch before committing as I’ve heard anecdotal reports that Apple Watch Series 9 and Apple Watch Ultra have PWM that can cause sensitivity.

On second thought, I would feel comfortable recommending Apple Watch Series 0-8 and SE to PWM sensitive users after doing more research. The latest generation, Series 9, and both generations of Apple Watch Ultra with their extreme brightness levels may utilize PWM more similar to smartphone OLED panels that could become an issue.

 

[Heman87]

The only models I can say with certainty that are 100% fine for PWM-sensitive users are Series 0-4, and the only current model much like the iPhone is Apple Watch SE.

Upon looking further into it, it does seem that up to Series 8 still utilizes an ultra-low-modulation 60Hz flicker. Notebookcheck measured a 310Hz PWM rate for Series 9 with its 2000 nits of peak brightness, so this is where it probably begins to deviate for the standard models likely for the worst for those who are sensitive to flickering.

However, less consideration is given into Apple Watch PWM so it would be smarter to try a newer Watch before committing as I’ve heard anecdotal reports that Apple Watch Series 9 and Apple Watch Ultra have PWM that can cause sensitivity.

On second thought, I would feel comfortable recommending Apple Watch Series 0-8 and SE to PWM sensitive users after doing more research. The latest generation, Series 9, and both generations of Apple Watch Ultra with their extreme brightness levels may utilize PWM more similar to smartphone OLED panels that could become an issue.

I have the apple watch ultra 2. The screen doesn't botter me at all. But then again I usually don't look at the screen for more than 1 min 😅

 

[Proteinaceous]

The good news is that I noticed little-to-no PWM sensitivity from Apple Vision Pro. I wasn’t expecting to have a profound headache response as assumedly Apple Vision Pro has one singular brightness level, with headway for HDR highlights.

Interesting. Thanks for mentioning this. I was wondering what the Vision Pro experience would be like for us sensitive folks. Obviously, different people may have different experiences, but promising to hear. I assumed having an OLED display inches from each eye was going to be a painful experience for all/most of us.

 

[MICHAELSD]

I have the apple watch ultra 2. The screen doesn't botter me at all. But then again I usually don't look at the screen for more than 1 min 😅

Touché. A few seconds is enough for an OLED iPhone display of any size to bother me.

Interesting. Thanks for mentioning this. I was wondering what the Vision Pro experience would be like for us sensitive folks. Obviously, different people may have different experiences, but promising to hear. I assumed having an OLED display inches from each eye was going to be a painful experience for all/most of us.

I’m not completely ruling out the possibility of migraines/headaches from the Vision Pro for sensitive users, but I knew that the design of the device would be fundamentally different. It is my presumption that Vision Pro only has one accessible brightness level as there is no brightness slider/auto-brightness to my knowledge, so the display team could finely tune that to be comfortable and accurate, rather than creating 100+ separate brightness levels. There are also HDR highlights.

Even with the iPhone SE in front of me where I should be committed to long-term ownership I’m still so torn. On its own it’s fine: the colors and contrast are great for an LCD display, it’s quick as the A15 Bionic is technically only one generation behind iPhone 15, the speakers are good, and it has 5G connectivity. It’s modern beyond the lower resolution, which oddly gives the illusion of 4K in videos, and the dated design that wouldn’t be all that bad with a 1080p+ display. But I forgot how much of a dramatic difference it is coming from a modern iPhone in use, despite the fact that I still used my personal iPhone SE more than iPhone 15 Plus when I had it. It just feels like a compromise, which is why I didn’t take care of it properly the first time. iPhone 15 Plus was better than any OLED iPhone I’ve tested, and that still wasn’t enough for it to feel like an iPad/iPhone LCD. I suppose that all we can do is hope that they continue making dramatic improvements to iPhone 16. I have a good feeling about that generation, even if I feel that way every year.

 

[badger1212]

Did anyone test the oneplus 12?

I did. Got eye strain after a day. Had high hopes for that one as it was a good phone. Trying out the Xiaomi 13t now which seems more promising on day 2.

 

[Heman87]

I did. Got eye strain after a day. Had high hopes for that one as it was a good phone. Trying out the Xiaomi 13t now which seems more promising on day 2.

That sucks! I really had high hope for the oneplus. Keep me/us posted about your experience about the Xiaomi. My iPhone 11 is really dying and i want to buy a new phone this year. I dont'have any hopes for the iPhone 16. And i dont want to buy an iPhone 11 again. Or SE with an outdated design from 2014

 

[PwmMen]

I'm ordering an Honor Magic 6 Pro on Sunday, with a PWM frequency over 4000HZ.
I'm excited and will definitely report at some point how I tolerated it. It will be exciting.

 

[The.Glorious.Son]

How far of a model of watch would be safe then?

No one can answer that for you. You have to try these things to see how you’re personally impacted because those of us who’ve been in this thread for years all react differently to different screens.

I’ve never had an issue with an Apple Watch. I’m also not staring at it for long periods of time.

 

[Jcmwwe]

No one can answer that for you. You have to try these things to see how you’re personally impacted because those of us who’ve been in this thread for years all react differently to different screens.

I’ve never had an issue with an Apple Watch. I’m also not staring at it for long periods of time.

True u r not staring at a watch like a phone, lol.

 

[expensive.window]

‎

you sound like my uncle who says coffee doesn't cause insomnia just because he drinks coffee before going to bed. That it doesn't happen to you it doesn't mean it doesn't happen to other people. You should understand that this if you are PWM sensitive. There are different theories, it might be pixel inversion, it might be temporal dithering, god knows what they are doing with new LCD panels

 

[Heman87]

Off topic. I have a Mercedes and the Screen has PWM eventhough its a LCD screen. And also the ambilight light have PWM. The screen doesnt bother me that much. Because i'm not looking at it directly the whole time. The ambilight does bother me after a while. Even if i dont look at directly. So i have turned the ambilight down. So be warned and pay attention if you buy a new Car

 

[timeconsumer]

Over the past few years I went 13 PM -> 14 PM -> 15 PM. I’ve been ending pretty much every day with a headache so I bought an iPhone SE (2022) to try. Also wanted to have the SE as a back up phone and it’s most likely going to be the last “classic” iPhone.

On my second day with it so far but it feels more comfortable on my eyes. I’m still using the 15 PM occasionally as I move things over to the SE and make sure I am not missing anything. So I’m not sure these two days really count until the 15 PM is powered off completely and I’m not looking at the screen. Also, I have had other increasingly worse neurological issues in the past few years that I’m seeing if they’ll go away. I’m not sure if it’s caused by the PWM in OLED screens but I’m willing to test.

This test has also made me realize that the PM is just too big of a device for me. Ideally I’d want something in the middle of the SE and PM which is probably the 15/15 Pro.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Over the past few years I went 13 PM -> 14 PM -> 15 PM. I’ve been ending pretty much every day with a headache so I bought an iPhone SE (2022) to try. Also wanted to have the SE as a back up phone and it’s most likely going to be the last “classic” iPhone.

On my second day with it so far but it feels more comfortable on my eyes. I’m still using the 15 PM occasionally as I move things over to the SE and make sure I am not missing anything. So I’m not sure these two days really count until the 15 PM is powered off completely and I’m not looking at the screen. Also, I have had other increasingly worse neurological issues in the past few years that I’m seeing if they’ll go away. I’m not sure if it’s caused by the PWM in OLED screens but I’m willing to test.

This test has also made me realize that the PM is just too big of a device for me. Ideally I’d want something in the middle of the SE and PM which is probably the 15/15 Pro.

I’m learning to appreciate iPhone SE, since let’s face it: the reality is that that’s the only viable option for somebody who’s sensitive to flickering. I’m even going to treat it more like an iPhone, rather than a temporary device that isn’t even paired to my Apple Watch, and attempt to use it more similarly to how I would use an iPhone 15 Pro Max.

On second thought, and I suppose I got interrupted before I posted this since I was ironically about to say that we need to accept it, I’m having a hard time accepting iPhone SE—which is exactly what led to its untimely demise the first time. It is a solid iPhone, but I do wish I could use a newer iPhone without worrying about migraines. I confirmed earlier that I could have even traded my broken iPhone SE, in any condition, and gotten an iPhone 15 effectively for free through my carrier. Ouch. Not a big deal regardless, I am satisfied at times with this tinier, more nostalgic iPhone.