Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up

[PwmMen]

I've had an iPhone SE 2022 and the iPhone 15 Pro Max sold for several days now.
I love the iPhone SE 2022 and don't miss anything compared to the iPhone 15 Pro Max.
I no longer want another iPhone and would like an iPhone SE 2024 with an iPhone 8 look.
Camera is great, battery lasts easily for 2 days, the display is outstanding, the stereo speakers sound great, just perfect.

 

[MICHAELSD]

I've had an iPhone SE 2022 and the iPhone 15 Pro Max sold for several days now.
I love the iPhone SE 2022 and don't miss anything compared to the iPhone 15 Pro Max.
I no longer want another iPhone and would like an iPhone SE 2024 with an iPhone 8 look.
Camera is great, battery lasts easily for 2 days, the display is outstanding, the stereo speakers sound great, just perfect.

At this point I would love an iPhone 8-based iPhone SE with an A17 Pro and an upgraded camera lens. Although the camera is way better than it should be considering the age of the sensor. A17 Pro or A18 would be to future-proof for gaming and more intensive apps, in theory.

I may just ‘refurbish’ my current iPhone SE. I would have been more mindful of it if I hadn’t been getting over iPhone 13 mini, which still fills me with joy when I hold someone else’s. My strongest connection to an iPhone in several generations. Man, I hope to see that again in a foldable form factor.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Return accepted. Thank you Apple for at least making this process easy. I had a virus for the past few weeks which made it impossible to get to FedEx until recently.

I do feel this is getting excessive and while I like iPhone SE I obviously wouldn’t mind a newer iPhone. iPhone 15 Plus was odd since it felt different than how I usually look at newer iPhones: it just felt like a better version of iPhone SE. Slightly faster, with a better display and, oddly most importantly - a better camera. It didn’t feel like there was more I could necessarily do on iPhone 15 Plus, and when it came to games or movies I didn’t want to do either.

I’ll probably run an iPhone 15 through my mind for the next few months, but if I can hold off then we should see more improvements on iPhone 16 in theory. I was hoping that SVM requirement would apply to iPhone since a tenfold improvement should be enough to at least be usable, yet I see no indication that it isn’t only for flickering lighting.

 

[2mw2]

Found a reference to site https://www.flickersense.org/ on the PWM_Sensitive reddit. Interesting the SE 2022 was tested

• Triggers new and exacerbates existing concussion-like symptoms.
• Dimming or using Nightshift or adjusting the WhitePoint are more triggering of symptoms.
• Typically kept at full brightness without Nightshift and without adjusting whitepoint or using any other color filter. Two layers of translucent black Dim-It films are applied over the screen to physically block brightness. One eye typically closed. Other eye closed during scrolling; avoid looking at screen while waiting for loading; only look at screen intermittently for a second or so for each step when possible.
• Dark Mode was typically used. However, in the past week, after seeing microscope data, I started trying a large font size so I can keep the phone further away from me and using Light Mode. I’m not sure yet which mode is least triggering – it may depend on what’s on the screen.
• When concussion-like symptoms have been absent for a long time, this screen can be used for a few minutes before head pressure seems to be triggered – noting that when previously absent, the pressure will take at least several minutes to build up and may only reach a noticeable level after screen use has stopped. When concussion-like symptoms are strong, this screen immediately exacerbates the symptoms.
• I try to mostly use this screen only for receiving notices of and briefly glancing at email, texts, and Slack. I try to shift to the Dell desktop for composing work emails, Slack, etc. since I can type mostly without looking at the screen. Using the iPhone screen is much more symptom-inducing than the Dell monitor with select low-flicker colors.

 

[ocean10]

Ok guys sth weird is happening. 3rd day with iPhone SE and wake up with dry eyes and i also got light headache and light nausea. What the f is going on ????? It’s almost an OLED feeling right now. I am pissed.

This may have something to do with something that seemed to change during the iOS 16 series. I have trouble with many of the newer Apple display and had a 1st generation iPad Pro 9.7" that was perfect for my eyes and I could use all day with no issue. I bought a 2nd one that was also great when I turned it on to set up. During the setup process it updated to iOS 16.5. As soon as it updated I got the familiar dizziness, nausea, warmth and general unease that many new screens were giving me. I didn't update my original iPad Pro and it remains perfect to this day. I put them next to each other and visually they look EXACTLY the same. Except one makes me sick and the other doesn't.

For phones I've have able to use the SE series with no issues. Mine (SE3) is currently running iOS 16.1.1 and I'm not updating it because I'm afraid the update will make it unusable like my 2nd iPad. Unfortunately it seems that even if you can buy a phone still running an older version of iOS the setup process requires you to update. So I'm not sure what to do if this phone needs to be replaced.

I can't find anything in the iOS update notes that mentions anything about graphics or screen rendering. I have no idea what the problem is and why some of us are reacting like this.

 

[badger1212]

I also found this with my 11 LCD. I used it without issue at all for about 3 years and then updated it to iOS 16 and got eye pain / strain. It's obviously not just PWM for me but something software related too.

 

[ocean10]

I also found this with my 11 LCD. I used it without issue at all for about 3 years and then updated it to iOS 16 and got eye pain / strain. It's obviously not just PWM for me but something software related too.

What did you do after that happened?

We’re you able to get used to it?

 

[Abiyork]

What did you do after that happened?

We’re you able to get used to it?

I too had the same issue with my IOS11.

Due to updating shortly after release I was still in a window where I could roll back to IOS16 using a file I downloaded from somewhere.

This also meant my Apple watch had increased to IOS10 and luckily Apple were very understanding my plight and rolled that back too once I sent it to them.

 

[badger1212]

What did you do after that happened?

We’re you able to get used to it?

I've been trying various android phones since. Not really got used to the 11 and think I'll sell it if I find a satisfactory android phone to move to in the hope that Apple will eventually copy what the Chinese are doing with the high frequency PWM phones and then I can go back because I'm all in with the Apple ecosystem unfortunately.

 

[2mw2]

Glad a site like appleinsider is publishing an article to make more people aware

Why Apple Vision Pro constantly strobing matters to your health

The Apple Vision Pro uses a common technology that is at the core of some of the health warnings about the device. Here's what that technology is, why it's crucial to the headset, and why it may cause problems for some users.

appleinsider.com

 

[Abiyork]

Glad a site like appleinsider is publishing an article to make more people aware

Why Apple Vision Pro constantly strobing matters to your health

The Apple Vision Pro uses a common technology that is at the core of some of the health warnings about the device. Here's what that technology is, why it's crucial to the headset, and why it may cause problems for some users.

appleinsider.com

Finally some wording that applies to us from a decent sized website.

 

[john g.]

Glad a site like appleinsider is publishing an article to make more people aware

Why Apple Vision Pro constantly strobing matters to your health

The Apple Vision Pro uses a common technology that is at the core of some of the health warnings about the device. Here's what that technology is, why it's crucial to the headset, and why it may cause problems for some users.

appleinsider.com

This just might be the traction we need to get other sites to really report on this and put the pressure on for better solutions.

 

[kerplunknet]

Glad a site like appleinsider is publishing an article to make more people aware

Why Apple Vision Pro constantly strobing matters to your health

The Apple Vision Pro uses a common technology that is at the core of some of the health warnings about the device. Here's what that technology is, why it's crucial to the headset, and why it may cause problems for some users.

appleinsider.com

FINALLY! Mainstream coverage of PWM.

 

[DJTaurus]

8.25. Another PWM mention

 

[badger1212]

8.25. Another PWM mention

It seems very significant that MKBHD is now mentioning it. His views have featured in Apple launches recently and he has a huge following. I've ordered the One Plus 12 to see how it goes.

 

[kargurin]

The PWM Sensitive reddit has a number of comments on this phone already. The prevailing take is that this phone does poorly with respect to eye sensitivity. I'm watching the Brownlee review now and while he is excellent he isn't affected by this sensitivity. I was going to order it but I'll just keep using the Razr Plus which has been good enough for me to use a couple hours per day.

 

[now i see it]

.

 

[cgolca]

Ok guys sth weird is happening. 3rd day with iPhone SE and wake up with dry eyes and i also got light headache and light nausea. What the f is going on ????? It’s almost an OLED feeling right now. I am pissed

Ok guys sth weird is happening. 3rd day with iPhone SE and wake up with dry eyes and i also got light headache and light nausea. What the f is going on ????? It’s almost an OLED feeling right now. I am pissed

Ok guys sth weird is happening. 3rd day with iPhone SE and wake up with dry eyes and i also got light headache and light nausea. What the f is going on ????? It’s almost an OLED feeling right now. I am pissed.

I have the same issues with the SE 3 but not the SE 2. It causes similar symptoms to PWM. It’s very strange and has prevented me from being able to use one.

 

[ocean10]

What are the iOS versions on each phone? Something seems to have happened around iOS 16.5 that made previously good screens unusable for many of us. I've been unable to use what seems like pretty much all "new" Apple screens but my 1st Generation iPad Pro had always been perfect (I bought a second one just to have a backup). Last summer when setting up the backup I updated to a later version of iOS 16 and immediately started getting my symptoms (general unease, dizziness, nausea, uncomfortable feeling in chest, arms and back). They symptoms aren't quite the same as the OLED screens but it's very similar. I can put my non updated iPad Pro and the updated one directly next to each other. Visually they look EXACTLY the same. But one makes me immediately sick and the other doesn't.

I first realized I had an issue with new screens the day the iPhone X came out. Almost called 911 when I started getting symptoms before I realized it all began when I starting setting up the phone. Since then I've used the iPhone 7, SE 2020, and the SE 2022. All have been perfect and could look at them all day. For my SE 2022 I'm running iOS 16.1.1 and it seems fine. But from what I've read online it seems that for many people if they update to 16.5 or beyond they will have the same issues.

Would be curious how many other people have suffered from the same? It's created a lot of anxiety as the SE 2022 was pretty much the last "modern" phone out there than didn't create symptoms. Buying a replacement will mean it would likely have updated iOS already preinstalled. Not sure what the options are from here.

 

[Jcmwwe]

If I buy a new iPhone 11 or iPhone se 2023 will that come with a old iOS? iphone is suppose to be iOS 13 and se 2022 is suppose to be 15. So I would not update to iOS 16 or 17 so would be fine? Thanks.

 

[kerplunknet]

Without going into a lot of detail, and with all due respect to people who are reporting this as an issue for them, it is very unlikely that a minor iOS update has suddenly introduced something that is causing eye-strain.

I am not dismissing anyone's experience, but I've heard this used as a root cause for many years now, with each major or minor update, and I have yet to see any evidence that "something has changed" in the software to create eye-strain issues.

More likely:

• Switching from an OLED phone (which absolutely has eye-strain issues) to an LCD/LED phone (which does not use PWM).
• Switching from a large display size to a small display size.
• Anxiety over the topic of eye-strain.
• Using a new phone/device for longer periods of time than normal because it's new.

 

[ocean10]

Without going into a lot of detail, and with all due respect to people who are reporting this as an issue for them, it is very unlikely that a minor iOS update has suddenly introduced something that is causing eye-strain.

I am not dismissing anyone's experience, but I've heard this used as a root cause for many years now, with each major or minor update, and I have yet to see any evidence that "something has changed" in the software to create eye-strain issues.

More likely:

• Switching from an OLED phone (which absolutely has eye-strain issues) to an LCD/LED phone (which does not use PWM).
• Switching from a large display size to a small display size.
• Anxiety over the topic of eye-strain.
• Using a new phone/device for longer periods of time than normal because it's new.

Yeah, I agree it's "unlikely" but something did happen. Nothing in the release notes would give any indication of a graphics change. I've personally never had any issues with any other iOS updates.

It's instantaneously noticeable for me. Nothing to do with how long I use the device. I don't use Mac computers but this seems to have happened to some people with updates on laptops last year as well. (search around this forum, r/PWM_Sensitive, Ledstrain.org and you'll see plenty of examples) Something also seems to be happening in the Windows world as many of us seem to not be able to use many/most/all new laptops. Also having issues with computers driven more modern GPUs.

There seems to be a thesis around temporal dithering being added or more heavily applied. I think we all wish we understood this more.

 

[MICHAELSD]

I managed to completely destroy the display on my third-generation iPhone SE, and the device is water damaged so a Genius Bar display replacement isn’t possible. Technically I have three viable options:

1) Replace the iPhone SE for $299, which is a reasonable replacement cost and honestly I didn’t take care of it the first time since I sort of resented it so subconciously I wanted a new replacement rather than a repair once I grew to appreciate it for what it is. I at least ended up liking it more than my 8+ and I could live with it for another few years. I‘d probably pair it with a new high-end case.

2) Get an iPhone 15 and deal with occasional headaches/migraines. This would normally be the option that makes the most sense, flicker sensitivity notwithstanding, since the trade-in on the cracked SE was basically valueless regardless. I tried it in the Apple Store for a slightly more extended period and I would rank it as the top iPhone 15 generation device as far as PWM sensitivity: iPhone 15, iPhone 15 Plus, iPhone 15 Pro Max, iPhone 15 Pro. iPhone 15 Pro Max was definitely still more symptom-inducing. But the tragic flaw of iPhone 15 is that despite being more usable it still causes symptoms, and I would prefer to wait for a modern iPhone I can look at that causes no sensitivity whatsoever.

3. Purchase an iPhone 13 and replace it with an LCD display, which a repair kiosk in the mall is conveniently able to do as they already have the part and would even be willing to work out a deal if I trade them the OEM OLED display off of a brand new iPhone 13. This carries the most risk by far, as there could be issues with display quality, longevity/warranty, and there’s no guarantee that it wouldn’t attempt to replicate the brightness controller that was already programmed for the OLED or that it would be flicker-free/a high enough frequency not to cause sensitivity. This would be the most interesting to document, of course. There isn’t much information available online as to how effective this would be as a LCD replacement is sold as the more affordable alternative to soft/hard substrate OLED options rather than a third-party workaround for PWM-sensitive users.

The most convenient option would be to buy an iPhone 15 and do the iPhone SE replacement by the weekend if it still causes debilitating migraines, but I’m trying to be mindful of returns and I don’t feel like continually setting up new iPhones. Whatever I do I’d rather be committed to that option. I suppose I’m also going to talk myself out of the iPhone 13 with an immediate LCD replacement since I would gain a better camera and the newer design but the display could be either better or worse, possibly better as it’s higher-resolution, and my risk tolerance isn’t high enough as there is potential for a lot to go wrong. Still, that’s the most creative option. If it worked I may even suggest other PWM-sensitive users to do the same and put work into creating resources for LCD replacements. Wishful thinking there. Writing out my options leads the first to be the most reliable and probably worthwhile.

 

[chazzee]

With regard to the increased number of issues especially in iOS updates including incremental updates, what I’ve noticed is that even with ‘reduce’ motion enabled, I think there are now more parts of the iOS software that still have motion or even now have a motion component to them that wasn’t there before. Just with Apple tinkering with scrolling and motion could be be enough to induce symptoms, and this is not something that would typically be included in release notes.

 

[kerplunknet]

I managed to completely destroy the display on my third-generation iPhone SE, and the device is water damaged so a Genius Bar display replacement isn’t possible. Technically I have three viable options:

1) Replace the iPhone SE for $299, which is a reasonable replacement cost and honestly I didn’t take care of it the first time since I sort of resented it so subconciously I wanted a new replacement rather than a repair once I grew to appreciate it for what it is. I at least ended up liking it more than my 8+ and I could live with it for another few years. I‘d probably pair it with a new high-end case.

2) Get an iPhone 15 and deal with occasional headaches/migraines. This would normally be the option that makes the most sense, flicker sensitivity notwithstanding, since the trade-in on the cracked SE was basically valueless regardless. I tried it in the Apple Store for a slightly more extended period and I would rank it as the top iPhone 15 generation device as far as PWM sensitivity: iPhone 15, iPhone 15 Plus, iPhone 15 Pro Max, iPhone 15 Pro. iPhone 15 Pro Max was definitely still more symptom-inducing. But the tragic flaw of iPhone 15 is that despite being more usable it still causes symptoms, and I would prefer to wait for a modern iPhone I can look at that causes no sensitivity whatsoever.

3. Purchase an iPhone 13 and replace it with an LCD display, which a repair kiosk in the mall is conveniently able to do as they already have the part and would even be willing to work out a deal if I trade them the OEM OLED display off of a brand new iPhone 13. This carries the most risk by far, as there could be issues with display quality, longevity/warranty, and there’s no guarantee that it wouldn’t attempt to replicate the brightness controller that was already programmed for the OLED or that it would be flicker-free/a high enough frequency not to cause sensitivity. This would be the most interesting to document, of course. There isn’t much information available online as to how effective this would be as a LCD replacement is sold as the more affordable alternative to soft/hard substrate OLED options rather than a third-party workaround for PWM-sensitive users.

The most convenient option would be to buy an iPhone 15 and do the iPhone SE replacement by the weekend if it still causes debilitating migraines, but I’m trying to be mindful of returns and I don’t feel like continually setting up new iPhones. Whatever I do I’d rather be committed to that option. I suppose I’m also going to talk myself out of the iPhone 13 with an immediate LCD replacement since I would gain a better camera and the newer design but the display could be either better or worse, possibly better as it’s higher-resolution, and my risk tolerance isn’t high enough as there is potential for a lot to go wrong. Still, that’s the most creative option. If it worked I may even suggest other PWM-sensitive users to do the same and put work into creating resources for LCD replacements. Wishful thinking there. Writing out my options leads the first to be the most reliable and probably worthwhile.

Straight Talk Wireless sells iPhone SE (3rd gen, 64 GB) for $149. You'd need to subscribe to one month of Straight Talk service and then cancel and let it unlock after 61 days since original activation date. Then you can use it anywhere. I've done this about 6 times now for various friends and family. iPhone SE is the best option, IMO.