Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up

[Leindt]

A few months ago @from reddit the_top_g told us about SVM, an indicator to measure how good a screen was to the eyes, although it was not a definitive indicator, or the only one that should be used. But researching on the topic on Chinese websites, I have found countless posts about phones from Xiaomi, Vivo, iQOO and several companies that are making a huge emphasis on eye protection, and thousands of comments on those posts, the public there gives a lot of importance to this topic. In the image (you can translate it) they explain everything perfectly, but my level of Chinese is not high enough to summarize everything for you 😂 I invite you all to translate the image, and you will be able to see how, at least in China, it seems that they do care about these issues.

It also explains that by September 2024 the European Union will require a SVM of < 0.4, so the next iPhone I imagine will have to comply with this.

https://imgur.com/a/Nz11dku

蓝厂iQOO12和iQOO Neo9 系列来在屏幕上来了... 来自科技疯汇 - 微博

蓝厂iQOO12和iQOO Neo9 系列来在屏幕上来了个给力的 OTA ，在开发者模式中开启全高频调光， 就能实现2160Hz全高频PWM调光，而且亮度范围到了2nit-600nit，绝大部分的使用场景都有不错的护眼体验。 简单来说，开...

weibo.com

Regarding SVM:

https://www.reddit.com/r/PWM_Sensitive/comments/160v5ry/_/k2aro2l

The video that explains SVM well (subtitles):

And some posts on Weibo (very recent), you can automatically translate the page and for the images that have relevant information use some translator or Google Lens:

Sina Visitor System

Sina Visitor System

vivo X100系列推出新的调光方案了，不仅支... 来自笪屹超人 - 微博

vivo X100系列推出新的调光方案了，不仅支持2160Hz全高频调光模式，SVM 测试最低达到 0.03。 行业目前的解决方案多是，低亮度使用高频PWM调光，高亮度使用类DC的组合，DC调光在显示效果上会有一定的折扣，而X100...

weibo.com

(Sorry for having put so many links, but it is really worthwhile to take a look at all the information).

 

[The.Glorious.Son]

I’ve not had much hope of a fix from Apple over the past OLED years and I still do not. My reason is unchanged in that I believe history dictates the present/future here. It’s often been the case that Apple either leads the charge with a breakthrough innovation, or they follow much after the fact, after they feel they perfected the feature.

For Apple to address this is almost like asking them to admit there is a flaw with their screens. We know damn well they are not going to do that. And given Samsung has yet to really draw attention to it, Apple has even less reason. I think, until a direct competitor like Samsung begins to address the issue whole heartedly, or Apple has a tried and true remedy to mitigate the situation, they’ll continue to pretend to be unaware.

All of that of course, is my opinion, and only that.

 

[daneoni]

I read that OLED screens manufactured by LG dont tend to have this issue as much as Samsung panels which flood majority of iPhones

Dunno the veracity of that though

 

[Mr.Simple]

"..It also explains that by September 2024 the European Union will require a SVM of < 0.4, so the next iPhone I imagine will have to comply with this."

This is the first time that i read about this. Has someone before read about that or has a source for this?

 

[Leindt]

"..It also explains that by September 2024 the European Union will require a SVM of < 0.4, so the next iPhone I imagine will have to comply with this."

This is the first time that i read about this. Has someone before read about that or has a source for this?

Yes, it seems to be something real, it is commented in the second paragraph of the image, you can try to translate it with Google Lens.

There are academic papers on this: https://backend.orbit.dtu.dk/ws/por...er_explained_Guide_to_industry_EN_digital.pdf

They state that PLM st cannot exceed 1 and MVS cannot exceed 0.9 (which will be lowered to 0.4 by 2024).
Note that by September 2024 the limit on stroboscopic effect visibility measure will be even stricter (MVS < 0.4)

And even from Philips: https://www.assets.signify.com/is/c...bal/20230424-ph-master-ledtube-t5-leaflet.pdf

Flicker-free design complies with the 2024 SLR requirement (SVM<0.4)

So if mobile brands say so, I imagine it's because they have to comply with this regulation as well. But, it's not a factor that solves the problem, from what I've read it helps, but it's not a magic solution. It seems to be something that has been delayed for several years. But there are more sources talking about it.

If @from reddit the_top_g were to be resurrected, he could explain SVM better 😂

 

[MICHAELSD]

It also explains that by September 2024 the European Union will require a SVM of < 0.4, so the next iPhone I imagine will have to comply with this.

Best news all year, if they have to comply with this. How much better would a SVM of < 0.4 be? More governments should establish rules against flickering, as it is detrimental to health regardless of PWM sensitivity.

iPhone 15 Plus is a reassuring improvement, so it does feel like next year will be the first usable generation for extremely sensitive users.

 

[iLuddite]

Best news all year, if they have to comply with this. How much better would a SVM of < 0.4 be? More governments should establish rules against flickering, as it is detrimental to health regardless of PWM sensitivity.

iPhone 15 Plus is a reassuring improvement, so it does feel like next year will be the first usable generation for extremely sensitive users.

Sorry as I haven’t been following this thread too closely but in your eyes how does the regular iPhone 15 compare to the 15 Plus?

 

[The.Glorious.Son]

Sorry as I haven’t been following this thread too closely but in your eyes how does the regular iPhone 15 compare to the 15 Plus?

Michael will likely also recommend that you give the phone(s) a true test run if you can. For me, the 15 PM was the only usable phone with the others being terrible. Others have had the opposite and found the Plus to be the best or the regular 15, etc. It seems we all have been reacting differently to them.

 

[iLuddite]

Michael will likely also recommend that you give the phone(s) a true test run if you can. For me, the 15 PM was the only usable phone with the others being terrible. Others have had the opposite and found the Plus to be the best or the regular 15, etc. It seems we all have been reacting differently to them.

Yeah, the regular 15 is by far the most tolerable OLED iPhone I've owned, followed by 12 regular/13 mini (about the same although 13 mini was perhaps slightly more irritating) and 14 Pro/XS (I returned both immediately).

 

[Leindt]

Best news all year, if they have to comply with this. How much better would a SVM of < 0.4 be? More governments should establish rules against flickering, as it is detrimental to health regardless of PWM sensitivity.

iPhone 15 Plus is a reassuring improvement, so it does feel like next year will be the first usable generation for extremely sensitive users.

I don't know how much of an improvement it will be, but what I have found is a graph comparing the SVM of the iPhone 15 Pro Max and the OnePlus 12:

​

 

[Mr.Simple]

When Apple need to comply with this new rule then this year we could finally see a bigger improvement

 

[1369281]

1. Thank goodness for the European Union. Apple will only do the right thing if they are forced to or it increases their profit. We will won't be completely flicker-free after SVM regulation, but it is the right direction.
2. Remember, we were PWM and flicker-free for a long time. All this effort to just get back to what we had.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Sorry as I haven’t been following this thread too closely but in your eyes how does the regular iPhone 15 compare to the 15 Plus?

While I haven’t tested iPhone 15, @The.Glorious.Son is correct that all iPhones have had very much personal individual reactions this generation. The most usable devices seem to be iPhone 15 Plus and iPhone 15 Pro Max, but even @PwmMen didn’t stick with iPhone 15 Pro Max after an extended period and having minimal sensitivity.

iPhone 15 Plus has been the most tolerable OLED iPhone, which still unfortunately means that I get sensitivity including tension headaches and light migraines at times, which is nonetheless a major improvement from persistent 24/7 behind-the-eye throbbing with iPhone X.

Should the news about Apple needing to improve the flickering by an order of a magnitude next generation to meet European regulations be true, then I’m comfortable holding off for iPhone 16, which should be dramatically better even on the Pro devices.

 

[MICHAELSD]

1. Thank goodness for the European Union. Apple will only do the right thing if they are forced to or it increases their profit. We will won't be completely flicker-free after SVM regulation, but it is the right direction.
2. Remember, we were PWM and flicker-free for a long time. All this effort to just get back to what we had.

This probably could have been fixed a long time ago, as I read that OLED even on smartphones didn’t use PWM in its earliest iterations. I’m sure we would all accept any, probably negligible, detraction to power efficiency that true DC dimming would bring. Apple is concerned enough to be more cognizant of it, but not concerned enough to create an Accessibility setting or to make flicker-free displays a priority again.

At the end of the day, these displays have to be usable by human beings; otherwise, what’s the point of designing brightness controllers in a lab for power efficiency and color accuracy?

 

[du57in]

I don't know how much of an improvement it will be, but what I have found is a graph comparing the SVM of the iPhone 15 Pro Max and the OnePlus 12:

View attachment 2342025
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If I read this right, Apple is already under SVM threshold being discussed. So the new regulations wouldn’t improve anything.

 

[The.Glorious.Son]

If I read this right, Apple is already under SVM threshold being discussed. So the new regulations wouldn’t improve anything.

I think the new regulations will require < 0.4 whereas the lower nits on the 15 are clear up at whole number 4.0. That would be a pretty incredible improvement if there’s any merit to it.

 

[cenkanyil]

I heard great stories on reddit about the S24 Ultra, with the PWM being at 492 instead of 240 like they always have done. Has someone had the chance to test it out? I really would not mind switching to android.

 

[asrun]

Hello my phone is iphone 15 pro and this is 1/6400 shutter speed

Why does purple appear in the several band and it's thicker than other bands???

 

[badger1212]

These technologies were also present in last year's Honor Magic 5 Pro, but I never got to test it, I don't know if it was really something that was noticeable. The Honor Magic 6 Pro also includes it, in addition to the 4320 Hz, but we will have to test both terminals and hopefully one of these technologies will work 🙏

"Best Eye Comfort Screen"

I used the Honor Magic 5 Pro without issue for a few months. It was without doubt the mpst comfortable OLED screen I have used.

 

[Heman87]

I used the Honor Magic 5 Pro without issue for a few months. It was without doubt the mpst comfortable OLED screen I have used.

The most comfortable OLED screen. But did you also get any eye strain? or other issues?

 

[badger1212]

The most comfortable OLED screen. But did you also get any eye strain? or other issues?

I didn't really get any issues, no. The battery was outstanding and the camera was good too. Software was kind of a hybrid of iOS and Android so quite familiar though notifications were at times a bit glitchy. I only sold it as I missed my Apple Watch, so back with the iPhone 11 for now, though I do have the Honor Magic V2 foldable coming this week which is supposed to have an even higher frequency PWM. I'm wondering if that wow factor will be enough to find me a decent alternative to the Apple Watch.

 

[du57in]

I think the new regulations will require < 0.4 whereas the lower nits on the 15 are clear up at whole number 4.0. That would be a pretty incredible improvement if there’s any merit to it.

Maybe I'm being pessimistic but if the x-axis is actual nits, and not brightness percentage, that graph shows that at roughly 10% brightness the 15PM has an SVM of ~0.3.

 

[DJTaurus]

I didn't really get any issues, no. The battery was outstanding and the camera was good too. Software was kind of a hybrid of iOS and Android so quite familiar though notifications were at times a bit glitchy. I only sold it as I missed my Apple Watch, so back with the iPhone 11 for now, though I do have the Honor Magic V2 foldable coming this week which is supposed to have an even higher frequency PWM. I'm wondering if that wow factor will be enough to find me a decent alternative to the Apple Watch.

Galaxy Watch 6 is great. Did you tried it?

 

[The.Glorious.Son]

Maybe I'm being pessimistic but if the x-axis is actual nits, and not brightness percentage, that graph shows that at roughly 10% brightness the 15PM has an SVM of ~0.3.

Unfortunately I don’t know enough about the graph to say. You make a great point. I’m hoping someone with a better understanding than me can add some context.

 

[badger1212]

Galaxy Watch 6 is great. Did you tried it?

I did have one while I tried out the s23 ultra and though it was a good watch, I got rid of it with the s23 ultra as many of the features e.g. ECG were only Samsung specific.