Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up

[decder]

As I have watched oled tvs at home for 4 years and used other oled phones I don’t see the screen to be the problem.

As I understand it, due to technical constraints, PWM on OLED TV’s operate at much higher frequency as on mobile devices.

Apparently, the power requirements are such that the frequency cannot be raised high enough so that it would be outside the observable range of 100% of the population.

The sad thing is that it does not have to be this way, as there are other ways to control the dimming of OLED screens.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Promising so far. Just received the replacement iPhone X today. I’ve been able to use the phone thus far without throbbing pain, but it hasn’t been an hour yet. There is some color variance between the replacement and the iPhone X I’ve been using (the replacement is warmer even without True Tone off on both which I prefer anyway). I did pickup my first X and experienced some strain almost immediately. Wouldn’t be surprised if the eye pain creeps back but seems better so far.

 

[Artvandelay1212]

Promising so far. Just received the replacement iPhone X today. I’ve been able to use the phone thus far without throbbing pain, but it hasn’t been an hour yet. There is some color variance between the replacement and the iPhone X I’ve been using (the replacement is warmer even without True Tone off on both which I prefer anyway). I did pickup my first X and experienced some strain almost immediately. Wouldn’t be surprised if the eye pain creeps back but seems better so far.

I wish you luck with it. I felt it wasn't worth the trouble and turned it my X a few hours ago and got the 8 plus. Even if the X bothers my eyes slightly, I didn't want to risk it.

 

[MICHAELSD]

I wish you luck with it. I felt it wasn't worth the trouble and turned it my X a few hours ago and got the 8 plus. Even if the X bothers my eyes slightly, I didn't want to risk it.

Thank you, really optimistic it’ll stick so far. It’s like I’ve been able to enjoy iPhone X for the first time tonight.

Having also owned the 8 Plus the X is worth the hassle though I wish we didn’t have to endure it. Everything is better on the X. I wish you luck as well.

 

[Artvandelay1212]

Thank you, really optimistic it’ll stick so far. It’s like I’ve been able to enjoy iPhone X for the first time tonight.

Having also owned the 8 Plus the X is worth the hassle though I wish we didn’t have to endure it. Everything is better on the X. I wish you luck as well.

The X was better, and I liked the size, but we only get 1 set of eyes and having eye issues all my life, I personally felt it wasn't worth the risk of the flickering oled screen and the Face ID made me nervous too so I wasn't even using it and had the front cameras and sensors covered with tape. I can now use the 8 and not worry.

 

[MICHAELSD]

The X was better, and I liked the size, but we only get 1 set of eyes and having eye issues all my life, I personally felt it wasn't worth the risk of the flickering oled screen and the Face ID made me nervous too so I wasn't even using it and had the front cameras and sensors covered with tape. I can now use the 8 and not worry.

Admittedly we could be using an 8 and 100% not have to worry about this. A few days after switching to my 8+, I went to NYC and you’d be surprised how many people are walking around with the X. Later that night I was at a gettogether and nearly everyone had an X — made me really wish that I had mine too.

I’m not sure yet whether the other X is different but it would be nice if it is.

 

[Atomic Walrus]

Promising so far. Just received the replacement iPhone X today. I’ve been able to use the phone thus far without throbbing pain, but it hasn’t been an hour yet. There is some color variance between the replacement and the iPhone X I’ve been using (the replacement is warmer even without True Tone off on both which I prefer anyway). I did pickup my first X and experienced some strain almost immediately. Wouldn’t be surprised if the eye pain creeps back but seems better so far.

It is extremely unlikely that there's any difference in the actual PWM algorithm between two units; The PWM frequency and amplitude used for any given screen brightness are core parts of the display driving and will not vary between units.

On the other hand, it is possible is that the actual degree of PWM dimming used at a given "true" (visible) brightness could change if a screen has a different peak light output -- For example, a screen that is 20% dimmer at full output doesn't need to use as much PWM dimming to reach the same light output as a brighter panel.

My other hypothesis would be that the warmer screen is less irritating to the eye in general, especially in those PWM output spikes, and that might be just enough reduction in discomfort to make it usable for you. Either way I hope it works for you.

BTW, if you still have the old phone it'd be interesting to know if there's a difference between how bright they can get when manually set to 100%. Might be hard to tell with the different white points though.

 

[MICHAELSD]

It is extremely unlikely that there's any difference in the actual PWM algorithm between two units; The PWM frequency and amplitude used for any given screen brightness are core parts of the display driving and will not vary between units.

On the other hand, it is possible is that the actual degree of PWM dimming used at a given "true" (visible) brightness could change if a screen has a different peak light output -- For example, a screen that is 20% dimmer at full output doesn't need to use as much PWM dimming to reach the same light output as a brighter panel.

My other hypothesis would be that the warmer screen is less irritating to the eye in general, especially in those PWM output spikes, and that might be just enough reduction in discomfort to make it usable for you. Either way I hope it works for you.

BTW, if you still have the old phone it'd be interesting to know if there's a difference between how bright they can get when manually set to 100%. Might be hard to tell with the different white points though.

I do plan to run some comparisons between the two phones. Just trying to avoid my original X for now so it doesn’t bias my usage of the new phone as I have to decide what I’ll be doing soon. My hypothesis (hope) was that the PWM wasn’t functioning properly on the first phone.

I do prefer the display at 100% brightness with reduce white point by 80% enabled and auto-brightness disabled. As far as I’ve read this doesn’t totally disable the PWM even though in theory it should have the lowest duty cycle and be less problematic. I’ve also read at 50% brightness there’s effectively no PWM but I feel like most of the articles I’ve read aren’t necessarily accurate. Frankly I don’t even fully understand how flickering the display dims the brightness.

This would be so much easier if there was no PWM at all at 100% brightness...
[doublepost=1520714259][/doublepost]One of the benefits of having two phones is that I’m able to compare display settings side-by-side. I actually find the display looks richer with reduce white point by 80% enabled in Accessibility and the brightness at 100% as opposed to 50% brightness with no Accessibility settings. You lose some shadow detail but it’s not too noticeable.

If I can get by with it without pain I think I’ll enable reduce white point by 80% full-time and switch between 100% brightness during the day and 50% brightness at night. We shall see. The PWM is still noticeable to me though even at 100% brightness.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Yup, the throbbing eye pain comes creeping back. I’m just using with auto-brightness and my eyes definitely don’t like the lower brightness levels at 240Hz PWM. I can still try to see what I can do with the settings but at the end of the day Apple needs to get rid of PWM entirely on the next X.
[doublepost=1520722813][/doublepost]When you have “reduce white point” enabled in Accessibility, the brightness level from ~ 80-97% is exactly the same then from 98-100% is actually dimmer.

As far as I can tell PWM is still active at those brightness levels but I feel like that means it’s less affected. I’ve tried at 100% so maybe the brightness setting under it is the key...

 

[noobinator]

Is PWM really something you can just get rid of? It’s my understanding this isn’t possible on OLED.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Is PWM really something you can just get rid of? It’s my understanding this isn’t possible on OLED.

There are other ways to modulate brightness. They can also adjust the frequency of it on future iPhones so it’s less noticeable. Some phones only have PWM up to a certain brightness level.
[doublepost=1520735709][/doublepost]Right now I’m using my iPhone X at 50% brightness with Reduce White Point by 80% turned on in settings. Looks great and there is supposedly the least amount of flickering at 50% brightness. Hopefully this setting works out.

 

[majkom]

Is PWM really something you can just get rid of? It’s my understanding this isn’t possible on OLED.

There are oled TV that dont use pwm at all

 

[Byzanti]

Michael and others:

Does the eyestrain/headaches only occur for you with the iPhone (or other phones), or do you get it with other sources of PWM, e.g. lightbulbs?

Would like to get an X, but remembering my past headaches with 60Hz CRTs, this is making me hesitant....

Thanks!

 

[TDDM]

Michael and others:

Does the eyestrain/headaches only occur for you with the iPhone (or other phones), or do you get it with other sources of PWM, e.g. lightbulbs?

Would like to get an X, but remembering my past headaches with 60Hz CRTs, this is making me hesitant....

Thanks!

I've never experienced this problem in my entire life before the X. If I were you, I'd take advantage of their 2 week return policy, that would definitely give you enough time to test the PWM.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Michael and others:

Does the eyestrain/headaches only occur for you with the iPhone (or other phones), or do you get it with other sources of PWM, e.g. lightbulbs?

Would like to get an X, but remembering my past headaches with 60Hz CRTs, this is making me hesitant....

Thanks!

I’ve never experienced this issue before either. This is very specific to the frequency used on the X.

 

[Pazman2000]

Michael and others:

Does the eyestrain/headaches only occur for you with the iPhone (or other phones), or do you get it with other sources of PWM, e.g. lightbulbs?

Would like to get an X, but remembering my past headaches with 60Hz CRTs, this is making me hesitant....

Thanks!

No never before with other oled phones or any other device.

 

[MICHAELSD]

This may sound odd, but the skin to the sides of my eyes is visibly red — it feels and looks injured, again. I’ve only ever gotten this when I first started using iPhone X and after I started using the replacement iPhone X after a short break.
[doublepost=1520804711][/doublepost]This photo is from December 1, 2017 a few days after I started using iPhone X. Thought I was crazy attributing it to the phone but noticing the exact same thing now after taking a break from iPhone X for a few days and going back to it with a replacement phone.

 

[now i see it]

Unfortunately the problem of hyper-sensitivity to high frequency light flickering gets worse the more you are exposed to it. Sensitivity only increases with exposure time. It's a losing proposition. Nobody is doing their eyes and brain any favors by "putting up with it" or "hoping the problem will go away" by exposing themselves to even more PWM flicker. The trend (pain trend and sensitivity trend) only goes downhill- gets worse with exposure. Anyone experiencing eye strain from looking at a flickering screen (yes that's you iPhone X) should stop using it entirely. Continuing to muscle through it will only make your eye pain and head pain worse. It's a loser.

 

[Byzanti]

I've never experienced this problem in my entire life before the X. If I were you, I'd take advantage of their 2 week return policy, that would definitely give you enough time to test the PWM.

I’ve never experienced this issue before either. This is very specific to the frequency used on the X.

Thank you both.

 

[MICHAELSD]

This whole situation has been a nightmare. Months of pain even when not using the phone, with no real resolution. After owning every iPhone since 2007, it’s really heartbreaking that Apple has created a phone that some people can’t use simply because they’re sensitive to Apple’s implementation of something they’ve never heard of. (I’m not epilleptic, etc.)

I can’t believe Apple released iPhone X in this state and hasn’t addressed an issue which has caused the phone to be intensely painful for some loyal users.

 

[TDDM]

This whole situation has been a nightmare. Months of pain even when not using the phone, with no real resolution. After owning every iPhone since 2007, it’s really heartbreaking that Apple has created a phone that some people can’t use simply because they’re sensitive to Apple’s implementation of something they’ve never heard of. (I’m not epilleptic, etc.)

I can’t believe Apple released iPhone X in this state and hasn’t addressed an issue which has caused the phone to be intensely painful for some loyal users.

Yep, same thoughts here. On the bright side, we'll hopefully have the 6.1" LCD model in 6 months. And who knows, maybe they'll have a solution for the 6.5" OLED one. I really can't imagine them not doing ANYTHING about it for the entire year.

 

[Pazman2000]

I’ve been using my iPhone X without 3d true depth on for nearly a week now and I have not had any eye problems at since .

 

[travis64]

It can be switched off in three different places in the settings ,mine has been off for 24 hours now and have not noticed any eye strain as yet .
I’ll give it 7 days to be sure but so far it looks to be the problem .
The 3d projector that’s used with the true depth camera is basically a low power laser pointer shining in your eyes.
Face ID is a great feature so I will enable it after a week even if the 3d projector is the problem but will enable it for unlock only as it’s only on for a second or two as long as the feature that constantly scans for your attention to keep the screen on when viewing it .
I’ll just set auto screen off to say 10mims or something so it doesn’t go off when I’m using the phone .

I think this worked for me

My right eye has not twitch all day

Thanks to this site i would not even think this phone waa causing my eye to twitch

 

[MICHAELSD]

Yep, same thoughts here. On the bright side, we'll hopefully have the 6.1" LCD model in 6 months. And who knows, maybe they'll have a solution for the 6.5" OLED one. I really can't imagine them not doing ANYTHING about it for the entire year.

I have hope that the Plus model has no PWM above a certain level like LG’s V30. If they’re charging a premium for the Plus model they should include a better brightness controller in the cost and not use PWM at all...

It’s a shame because I could’ve fixed this months ago if there was no PWM at 0% and 100% like on most other displays with PWM. Remarkably, Apple has managed to implement PWM from 0%-100%... meaning there’s no way to avoid this nightmare. It’s really unfortunate because the display looks great at 100% brightness with reduce white point by 80% enabled in settings.

 

[blackberrycubed]

from what I have read it is 60hz (50 - 100%) and 240Hz from (0 to 49%) brightness.

Where did you see no PWM at 50% ?