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Are you experiencing this issue?


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TDDM

macrumors 6502
Nov 25, 2017
490
634
KA
I’m wondering if maybe the display only turns off fully at 25% brightness and under. (At that level it’s constantly turning itself on and off.) It gets a bit tiring having to constantly change the white point. Maybe I can keep reduce white point permanently at 80% which is the highest it can be without introducing a purple hue and train the auto-brightness to only adjust between 33%-100? I would’ve done it between 50%-100% but 50% is still too bright for dark environments. Just an idea. Kind of sucks we have to do all this tinkering just to use the phone rather than enjoying it.
I've been having some luck with 100% brightness / 80% white point reduction (no true tone), I think the white point setting may have some potential, I'm gonna keep experimenting like you are.

Hey, at the very least, we'll have some data for Apple on what works and what doesn't :p
 
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MICHAELSD

macrumors 603
Jul 13, 2008
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I've been having some luck with 100% brightness / 80% white point reduction (no true tone), I think the white point setting may have some potential, I'm gonna keep experimenting like you are.

Hey, at the very least, we'll have some data for Apple on what works and what doesn't :p

From months of experimentation I think 100% brightness with 80% white point reduction and auto-brightness off is the best setting for sensitive eyes, provided lighting conditions are bright enough. The display should flicker the least since this is probably about 99% of its true max brightness. (If it was really 100% there would be no flicker.) Having TrueTone on should further prevent eye strain since its only job is warming the color temp for more accurate colors.

Totally unnecessary data though :p. All they have to do is eliminate the flicker.

Now that iOS 11 can be jailbroken theoretically a developer could release a fix like they did on the Galaxy phones but it would void the warranty. There’s nothing like this currently for iPhone X but the developer at Iris may be the best bet if he can modify the app specifically for the X. As it stands now it would be no better than reducing the white point even if it did work on the X as it doesn’t modify the phone’s own max brightness.
 

MICHAELSD

macrumors 603
Jul 13, 2008
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I’m not a doctor but I can presume the reason for my throbbing pain for hours after using iPhone X is that my eyes adjust to the flickering of the display as PWM at low frequencies causes “multiple contractions and expansions of the pupils.” The display is better on iPhone X in terms of sharpness and contrast but the flicker makes it difficult to focus on for long (or at times even short) periods so it’s really not practical to use, in addition to all the eye pain I’ve experienced.

I will make sure not to expose my eyes to low-frequency PWM again on any device. Not worth the tension headaches even at 100% brightness so I’m just going to have to hope that iPhone X Plus fixes this.
[doublepost=1521417632][/doublepost]I’m really doing and will continue doing all I can to make sure that the next generation of OLED iPhones has no or significantly better PWM. Unfortunately I’ve already done all I can to change the situation on the current iPhone X but after speaking to Apple (more on that later) that won’t be happening on this model.
 

now i see it

macrumors G4
Jan 2, 2002
11,258
24,295
For goodness sakes get rid of that crummy toxic X and get an 8 or 8+. Are animojis really worth ruining your eyes? The more you subject them to this flickering, the more sensitive they'll get. You can (and most likely will) retain this sensitivity now for a long long time because of this (unbelievable) insistence in subjecting your eyes to trauma.

I got nailed bad by CRT flicker in the 90s living behind a computer CRT 16 hours a day for years and my eyes were never the same again. To this day I can no longer even glance at one without getting instant eye strain.

Step back a moment and realize what you're doing. Sounds like a self destructive obsession. There is nothing wise about continuing to use that toxic X. No magical display settings are going to fix the fact that the crummy X is and always will be poison to your eyes.
 
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TDDM

macrumors 6502
Nov 25, 2017
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I’m really doing and will continue doing all I can to make sure that the next generation of OLED iPhones has no or significantly better PWM. Unfortunately I’ve already done all I can to change the situation on the current iPhone X but after speaking to Apple (more on that later) that won’t be happening on this model.
Yeah, I've had the same thing happen. I use the X for a while and there's no discomfort after a while, but it's like my eyes can't focus as well after I stop using it. Definitely not good.

As for the current X, I'm probably gonna switch to an 8 (8+ just seems so big and clunky) and hope for better tech in the X+. Do you get the impression from Apple that they're taking this seriously?


Step back a moment and realize what you're doing. Sounds like a self destructive obsession. There is nothing wise about continuing to use that toxic X. No magical display settings are going to fix the fact that the crummy X is and always will be poison to your eyes.
It's not about the X. It'd be nice if the X was pwm-free, but it's way bigger than that. If we don't try to deal with this now by bringing it to their attention, they may never even think about fixing pwm in their future devices.
 

MICHAELSD

macrumors 603
Jul 13, 2008
5,484
3,494
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For goodness sakes get rid of that crummy toxic X and get an 8 or 8+. Are animojis really worth ruining your eyes? The more you subject them to this flickering, the more sensitive they'll get. You can (and most likely will) retain this sensitivity now for a long long time because of this (unbelievable) insistence in subjecting your eyes to trauma.

I got nailed bad by CRT flicker in the 90s living behind a computer CRT 16 hours a day for years and my eyes were never the same again. To this day I can no longer even glance at one without getting instant eye strain.

Step back a moment and realize what you're doing. Sounds like a self destructive obsession. There is nothing wise about continuing to use that toxic X. No magical display settings are going to fix the fact that the crummy X is and always will be poison to your eyes.

You’re not wrong, and it’s definitely an unhealthy obsession but when it’s the single product you use the most giving you pain there’s no getting around it. From the onset AppleCare led me on for over a month (telling me that Apple’s engineering team was looking at it and that it was a high-priority issue) making me expect a real resolution. I’ve had a long arduous, stressful experience with iPhone X trying to resolve this issue that at this point I have literally tried all I could so yes I’ll be switching to an iPhone 8+ (which I’m typing this on) out of necessity to my health. It’s such a shame because iPhone X is a beautiful phone otherwise and not being able to use it is more heartbreaking to me as a long-time iPhone enthusiast who’s been waiting years for a bezel-less design with an OLED display than it would be for the average consumer.

I’m still not happy having to switch to iPhone 8+; ultimately, for my sanity and health I don’t have a choice.
[doublepost=1521427575][/doublepost]
As for the current X, I'm probably gonna switch to an 8 (8+ just seems so big and clunky) and hope for better tech in the X+. Do you get the impression from Apple that they're taking this seriously?

It's not about the X. It'd be nice if the X was pwm-free, but it's way bigger than that. If we don't try to deal with this now by bringing it to their attention, they may never even think about fixing pwm in their future devices.

I think the information did get to the right team and that I’m dealing with some important people at Apple, so in that regard yes they are taking it seriously. There’s no guarantee that this will lead to a better situation on the next generation as they still do recommend I get as many people as possible to continue sending them feedback on this.

You’re right, that’s why I escalated as far as I did — this could’ve went on for the next few years without Apple being aware of the extent of the issue. As someone who upgrades annually I definitely don’t want to hold onto my 8+ for the next few years.

There is some hope. LG manufactures the Apple Watch display which has superior PWM and will likely produce the iPhone X Plus display. I’m optimistic that Apple is incorporating my feedback about PWM sensitivity into the design of this display. Apple also is looking into new display technology like MicroLED.
 
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decder

macrumors member
Aug 11, 2017
40
27
Apple is was right when it insisted OLED is inferior to LCD’s. I’m disappointed Apple went with the crowd even though the problems with it haven’t been resolved.

People should keep in mind that what works in TV panels may not work so well on phones. If you primarily use your phone to watch videos you are able to benefit from the advantages of OLED, but otherwise the sharp motion response results in a range of disorientating motion artefacts with high contrast graphics, such as websites.

The upcoming 6.1” LCD iPhone should be able to save the day though.
 
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MICHAELSD

macrumors 603
Jul 13, 2008
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This is what roughly 50% brightness looks like in NotebookCheck’s PWM video:

AE38AEBC-6228-433A-BAFF-ADC488FCDF4C.jpeg


Not as bad compared to the other settings.
 
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decder

macrumors member
Aug 11, 2017
40
27
Well, headaches and other medical issues aside, the display is just really nasty to look at with any kind of high contrast motion, such as scrolling text. It may not in fact be solely PWM that is causing your problems, it's the OLED motion blur, trailing, ghosting, smearing, what ever you want to call it. It throws your entire visual system for a loop. There's something deeply unnerving with the way this display behaves, whether one realizes it or not.
 

Atomic Walrus

macrumors 6502a
Sep 24, 2012
878
434
Well, headaches and other medical issues aside, the display is just really nasty to look at with any kind of high contrast motion, such as scrolling text. It may not in fact be solely PWM that is causing your problems, it's the OLED motion blur, trailing, ghosting, smearing, what ever you want to call it. It throws your entire visual system for a loop. There's something deeply unnerving with the way this display behaves, whether one realizes it or not.

It sounds like you’re describing the thing that bothers me most about PWM: A sort of “stuttering” form of motion blur as a result of the PWM frequency not matching the refresh rate. So motion is rendered with a completely disordered pattern; you may see frame 1 “flashed” 2 times, frame 1 flashed 3 times, etc — and not even at a uniform timing.

It’s basically like 3:2 pulldown for playing 24fps video at 60hz, except worse because the repeats are not even done in a pattern (3:2 pulldown steadily alternates showing each frame 2 or 3 times). The higher the PWM rate, the worse the effect is (until you get into the 1000hz range, where you can no longer detect it).

If the PWM rate matched the refresh it would actually reduce motion blur (this is how 90hz OLED panels in VR Headsets are designed, but they have a fixed brightness and so don’t need dimming).

You may also notice that the screen blurs/stutters/generally looks unstable when you move IT (not the content on it) relative to your eyes, which is another irritation of PWM.

There is also OLED ghosting, where near-black areas have a high latency and appear to smear. Going back to VR headsets, this is why many companies have gone with calibrating a dark grey as the black point
 

Osamede

macrumors 6502a
Oct 28, 2009
816
513
Apple is was right when it insisted OLED is inferior to LCD’s. I’m disappointed Apple went with the crowd even though the problems with it haven’t been resolved.

People should keep in mind that what works in TV panels may not work so well on phones. If you primarily use your phone to watch videos you are able to benefit from the advantages of OLED, but otherwise the sharp motion response results in a range of disorientating motion artefacts with high contrast graphics, such as websites.

The upcoming 6.1” LCD iPhone should be able to save the day though.

This is a bizarre backfilling of self reinforcing “logic”.

In fact OLED displays have been well implemented on countless smartphones before now. However, Apple’s managed here the incredible feat of being not only veeery late to the party, but then botching the implementation. Clearly something’s gone wrong. And needlessly because making a great OLED display on smartphone, Samsung has been doing for ages. And many others too..

But this company used to be the opposite, sadly. They were a super fast follower with rock solid implementation. This has been the secret to their commercial success. Thats what people should start realizing, instead of drowning willful denial.

No falling back to LCD is not the solution. Implementing OLED to be complaint-free is what’s needed.
 
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newellj

macrumors G3
Oct 15, 2014
8,154
3,047
East of Eden
Ye
It's not about the X. It'd be nice if the X was pwm-free, but it's way bigger than that. If we don't try to deal with this now by bringing it to their attention, they may never even think about fixing pwm in their future devices.

It looks like Apple's plan is to go to microLED, based on their recent investments. I am not sure they're going to spend a lot of money trying to improve OLED. I could be wrong, and hope I am...
 

U1cracka

macrumors member
Sep 14, 2012
96
9
Had my iPhone X since lunch day loved it been having eye strain off and on since I got it just went back to my iPhone 7 Plus this morning to see if the eye strain goes away.
I’ve Also been worried about the use of FaceTime and the infrared laser scanning my face/eyes will there be long term affects from it years later.

For those of you that went back to an iPhone 8 or other phone how long did it take for your eye strain to go away or back to normal.
 

gr4z

macrumors 6502
Aug 7, 2010
318
48
England
Had my iPhone X since lunch day loved it been having eye strain off and on since I got it just went back to my iPhone 7 Plus this morning to see if the eye strain goes away.
I’ve Also been worried about the use of FaceTime and the infrared laser scanning my face/eyes will there be long term affects from it years later.

For those of you that went back to an iPhone 8 or other phone how long did it take for your eye strain to go away or back to normal.

A matter of minutes for me.
 

gr4z

macrumors 6502
Aug 7, 2010
318
48
England
Well I have already sold my X at a loss and bought an 8+ as Apple UK refused to help. Really disappointed if they then announce some sort of fix.
 

majkom

macrumors 68000
May 3, 2011
1,946
1,253
Funny thing is that pwm is cheap way to regulate brightness, premium phone with cheap solution that can harm customer...
 
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MICHAELSD

macrumors 603
Jul 13, 2008
5,484
3,494
NJ
Is this an update about the 2018 models?

No.

(What I had told you previously isn’t necessarily still accurate.)

Not sure what I can and can’t say so I will remain quiet until I have an update I can share publicly.
[doublepost=1521755569][/doublepost]
Could this mean that I might be able to get myself an iPhone X after all?

I believe!

Possibly... Will let you guys know when I can.
 
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TDDM

macrumors 6502
Nov 25, 2017
490
634
KA
No.

(What I had told you previously isn’t necessarily still accurate.)

Not sure what I can and can’t say so I will remain quiet until I have an update I can share publicly.
[doublepost=1521755569][/doublepost]

Possibly... Will let you guys know when I can.
Interesting, I'm curious what it could be. Guess I'll hold off on swapping my X for a little bit and see if anything happens.
 
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