Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up

[stafil]

Fair enough. And again, I am not disputing that there is a problem with Apples devices, or that PWM impacts some (or many) people.

Would be interesting to see a detailed breakdown of the different PWM or display scheme among the Samsung panels out there by a scientific firm such as Displaymate or similar. I have been reading about PWM since my first Nexus phone and don't dispute that it impacts some people. I am curious if the PWM effect some automakers use on their LED marker and taillights also impact effected people.

FWIW, Grumpy Mom and I both have a Pixel 2, and have shared both praise and gripes about that device in the Alternatives area for about a year now.

Overall, it sucks that this is an issue for so many, and I do hope Apple looks into a resolution since they are so invested in health, and accessibility.

The problem with an issue like this is, where do you begin? “Headache” is not measurable, so it’s difficult to understand what is the actual root-cause, measure it, and improve it.

 

[dazz87]

Is it possible that the eye-strain/headaches are from the FaceID/IR and not from the OLED?

No cause i believe someone last yr disable faceid to test it and was still getting headaches.

 

[kerplunknet]

Huh, that's really disappointing. It also makes me question whether the person I spoke to knows for sure that the XR doesn't use PWM. She seemed very confident, but if it's company policy to not share those details, it makes me a little concerned about her answer.

I can't imagine why sharing whether or not the device uses PWM is a bad thing in Apple's eyes, it's not like we're going to ignore the issue and just live with the strain.

Oh well. Like I said earlier, if the XR uses the same screen tech as the G7, then we're looking at 1100+ Hz and no PWM above 42% brightness. Definitely not ideal, but hopefully turns out much better than the XS implementation.

I think I would get the iPhone 8 Plus if the iPhone XR used PWM at all. Here’s hoping for PWM free!

 

[sorgo †]

I think I would get the iPhone 8 Plus if the iPhone XR used PWM at all. Here’s hoping for PWM free!

Hoping for it to be PWM-free as well as for it to have a more reliable modem/antenna than its pricier counterparts. I’m sure it will probably be quite similar but perhaps the use of aluminium in the frame construction will make a difference.

That brings to mind one more rather undesirable thing I noticed within the short time I had/used my XS: Both wifi and cellular reception seemed markedly weaker.

 

[orbitalpunk]

Darn it, just got my Xs in the mail, upgraded from a 6s, and I'm feeling the eye strain as well. This is unbelievable. I tried the tip of increasing brightness and lowering the white point. It helped a little but after enough time the eye strain catches up. Looking toward the Xr now. Just very shocked by this design flaw, albeit Apples PMW or OLED technology. And my gosh that blue tint shift at an angle is huge. I can live with that but not the eye strain. It's real and a serious issue.

 

[tonybarnaby]

Darn it, just got my Xs in the mail, upgraded from a 6s, and I'm feeling the eye strain as well. This is unbelievable. I tried the tip of increasing brightness and lowering the white point. It helped a little but after enough time the eye strain catches up. Looking toward the Xr now. Just very shocked by this design flaw, albeit Apples PMW or OLED technology. And my gosh that blue tint shift at an angle is huge. I can live with that but not the eye strain. It's real and a serious issue.

Pwm happens at every brightness setting and nothing can prevent it unfortunately. Believe me, i tried to find a setting that worked for me.

 

[stafil]

I forced myself to spend all day today using the Max. Luckily I didn’t got a headache, but could feel my eyes struggling. Moved the sim back to 8Plus as soon as I got home, and can tell you, it feels like a cool refreshed breeze for me eyes. I really don’t know why people would leave this perfect LCD for a problematic OLED

 

[sorgo †]

I forced myself to spend all day today using the Max. Luckily I didn’t got a headache, but could feel my eyes struggling. Moved the sim back to 8Plus as soon as I got home, and can tell you, it feels like a cool refreshed breeze for me eyes. I really don’t know why people would leave this perfect LCD for a problematic OLED

Precisely. If the XR doesn't end up working out I'll be more than satisfied just holding onto my 8 Plus for a while.

 

[tonybarnaby]

I forced myself to spend all day today using the Max. Luckily I didn’t got a headache, but could feel my eyes struggling. Moved the sim back to 8Plus as soon as I got home, and can tell you, it feels like a cool refreshed breeze for me eyes. I really don’t know why people would leave this perfect LCD for a problematic OLED

Let’s be real. The max is the best iPhone ever if you like big phones AND your eyes can handle the pwm. Sadly, mine can’t. I had the max for a weekend only, but I still miss it. Not even for the OLED, but for the 6.5” screen size. The 8+ honestly feels just as fast as the max, and the battery life is close for me also. I just miss the 6.5” screen and how much stuff fit on the screen. I saved $400 so I guess it’s not all bad. I’ll check the xr, but I really want the 2019 max assuming they handle their pwm implementation. Worst case scenario the 8+ will be good another 2-3 years.
[doublepost=1538023206][/doublepost]My wife has long suffered from headaches and migraines. She has had an original x since launch last year. No headaches or pain. I’ve never been prone to headaches, yet I got one in 5 minutes of opening my max. It’s craxy how this stuff works out. I am still worried for the long term effects of anyone using these phones. My wife doesn’t want an “old crappy looking” 8+ like I have, so she’s gonna ride it out. Even if it doesn’t give her a headache, I know that can’t be good for her eyes or brain. Hopefully next year it’s resolved and ALL of us who want an OLED iPhone can use one without pain or health issues.

 

[sorgo †]

My wife doesn’t want an “old crappy looking” 8+ like I have, so she’s gonna ride it out.

Well, she sounds easy to please.

 

[tonybarnaby]

Well, she sounds easy to please.

She’s very easy going. Just likes a nice MK bag and a “pretty” phone that takes good pics of our kids.

 

[TDDM]

MichaelSD and I have been talking, and he found a review that had something interesting about the XS.

Notebookcheck.com's review of the XS states:

"The display backlight flickers at 240.4 Hz (Likely utilizing PWM) Flickering detected at a brightness setting of 99 % and below. There should be no flickering or PWM above this brightness setting."

This may mean that there's no PWM at 100% brightness, would anyone with a standard XS mind trying this out? Basically, just turn off auto-brightness, set the brightness to 100%, and then use Reduce White Point to manage the brightnesss so it's not so blinding.

Unfortunately, we don't know yet if this also applies to the XS Max. I'm still trying the same experiment myself, I'll let you guys know if I notice any kind of difference.

Also, this may not truly be a solution, since I'm not so sure it's a good idea to always have your phone at 100% brightness. But it would still be good to know if Apple has changed the screens.

 

[Tijdelijk]

MichaelSD and I have been talking, and he found a review that had something interesting about the XS.

Notebookcheck.com's review of the XS states:

"The display backlight flickers at 240.4 Hz (Likely utilizing PWM) Flickering detected at a brightness setting of 99 % and below. There should be no flickering or PWM above this brightness setting."

This may mean that there's no PWM at 100% brightness, would anyone with a standard XS mind trying this out? Basically, just turn off auto-brightness, set the brightness to 100%, and then use Reduce White Point to manage the brightnesss so it's not so blinding.

Unfortunately, we don't know yet if this also applies to the XS Max. I'm still trying the same experiment myself, I'll let you guys know if I notice any kind of difference.

Also, this may not truly be a solution, since I'm not so sure it's a good idea to always have your phone at 100% brightness. But it would still be good to know if Apple has changed the screens.

Even at 100 procent brightness you can see flickering on the X when you make a Slowmotion movie. Only the LCD"s iPhones are flicker free. Even at 960FPS no flikkering what so ever. But the X at full brightness there is still flickering. It's less but it's still there

 

[tonybarnaby]

Even if it worked at 100% brightness, I wouldn’t try it. I need to know it’s pwm free, or at least at a level that no one can get headaches from.

 

[Chele]

Well, I'm pretty sure that I'm going to be officially throwing in the towel and returning my Max this weekend. I really wanted to make it work. I love the phone. The huge screen is wonderful and the colors really just pop. From Friday to Monday, my eyes were definitely feeling strained. That's kind of common with me because my eyes don't like change and I thought/hoped that I would get used to it.

On Tuesday, I had my first ever migraine. I'm not 100% blaming the phone because we're having seasonal weather changes here and it could be that but it's curious that it happened after getting the new phone. Even yesterday, I've tried to keep using it but the eye strain isn't going away. I read a lot on my phone between forums and ebooks, I can't have a phone screen that my eyes don't feel comfortable reading. I used my 8+ last night and it was such a huge relief. Within minutes, my eyes felt better. Not perfect but noticeably better.

It's really a shame that we suffer from this PWM condition and the Apple is using it for their screens. I had no idea about it until reading on here. I guess that I'm looking in to the XR but I want to be 100% sure that it's PWM free before buying because I don't want to have to return that one too. I guess if that doesn't work out, I'll use my 8+ until next year. I plan on sending feedback to Apple. I know that there's nothing that they can do about it now but I really hope that PWM isn't in future iPhones. I've always upgraded every year but I guess I won't if that's the case.

 

[5105973]

Fair enough. And again, I am not disputing that there is a problem with Apples devices, or that PWM impacts some (or many) people.

Would be interesting to see a detailed breakdown of the different PWM or display scheme among the Samsung panels out there by a scientific firm such as Displaymate or similar. I have been reading about PWM since my first Nexus phone and don't dispute that it impacts some people. I am curious if the PWM effect some automakers use on their LED marker and taillights also impact effected people.

FWIW, Grumpy Mom and I both have a Pixel 2, and have shared both praise and gripes about that device in the Alternatives area for about a year now.

Overall, it sucks that this is an issue for so many, and I do hope Apple looks into a resolution since they are so invested in health, and accessibility.

Oh yes the head and tail lights cause problems not just for me but for my husband too. He gets headaches if stuck in traffic behind a particularly obnoxious set of taillights.

For myself, I have a 26 year old compact car that’s very low to the ground. It was fine back in 1992 when most other cars on the road were built about the same. I drove it happily for years and then more and more new style headlights came onto the road on progressively taller automobiles and SUVs and I found myself getting blinded by them to the point I could no longer drive at night, about five years ago. My physical symptoms were such that we thought I was simply afflicted with some sort of health issue that meant I would have to give up night driving. Well my husband bought a new truck and gave me his old one and it was high enough to put me above the level where the headlights and tail lights were blinding me with their excessive brightness and inducing ocular migraines. So I can now drive at night again. At the new vantage point I am better able to look away from the lights but still keep my eyes on the road.

Getting back to iphones, last night I woke up to use the bathroom and there were all of these countless tiny reddish dots in my vision. I could easily imagine Face ID had done something nefarious to my eyes, except I’ve seen these off and on most of my life (in light and darkness) and I have a daughter who sees them too. I asked my opthomologist about them and he actually looked at me like I’d lost my mind. So I take it they’re not ocular in nature despite being something I see. Must be another weird brain thing, then.

 

[tonybarnaby]

Well, I'm pretty sure that I'm going to be officially throwing in the towel and returning my Max this weekend. I really wanted to make it work. I love the phone. The huge screen is wonderful and the colors really just pop. From Friday to Monday, my eyes were definitely feeling strained. That's kind of common with me because my eyes don't like change and I thought/hoped that I would get used to it.

On Tuesday, I had my first ever migraine. I'm not 100% blaming the phone because we're having seasonal weather changes here and it could be that but it's curious that it happened after getting the new phone. Even yesterday, I've tried to keep using it but the eye strain isn't going away. I read a lot on my phone between forums and ebooks, I can't have a phone screen that my eyes don't feel comfortable reading. I used my 8+ last night and it was such a huge relief. Within minutes, my eyes felt better. Not perfect but noticeably better.

It's really a shame that we suffer from this PWM condition and the Apple is using it for their screens. I had no idea about it until reading on here. I guess that I'm looking in to the XR but I want to be 100% sure that it's PWM free before buying because I don't want to have to return that one too. I guess if that doesn't work out, I'll use my 8+ until next year. I plan on sending feedback to Apple. I know that there's nothing that they can do about it now but I really hope that PWM isn't in future iPhones. I've always upgraded every year but I guess I won't if that's the case.

Just a heads up but you might have to pay a restocking fee. It was $50 for me at T-Mobile. I was happy to do it, as the phone was worthless to me due to pwm.

 

[5105973]

MichaelSD and I have been talking, and he found a review that had something interesting about the XS.

Notebookcheck.com's review of the XS states:

"The display backlight flickers at 240.4 Hz (Likely utilizing PWM) Flickering detected at a brightness setting of 99 % and below. There should be no flickering or PWM above this brightness setting."

This may mean that there's no PWM at 100% brightness, would anyone with a standard XS mind trying this out? Basically, just turn off auto-brightness, set the brightness to 100%, and then use Reduce White Point to manage the brightnesss so it's not so blinding.

Unfortunately, we don't know yet if this also applies to the XS Max. I'm still trying the same experiment myself, I'll let you guys know if I notice any kind of difference.

Also, this may not truly be a solution, since I'm not so sure it's a good idea to always have your phone at 100% brightness. But it would still be good to know if Apple has changed the screens.

Ok I have mine set to 100% brightness, True Tone on because I can’t stand harsh blue white and reduce who point to 90%.

I hope I don’t get burn in on the display. It will be interesting to see if it affects my battery life.

I don’t see any sign of flicker. But on this display I couldn’t see flicker the way I do in my husband’s display. I’ll test his when he gets home from work.

By the way he texted me from the school while dropping off the kids and said his S9+ and his Max appeared to be performing just about the same on the low signal out there.

Yuck. I could not stand that setting. I bumped white point reduction even more and made it worse. While I can’t see flickering it was definitely less comfortable for my eyes. I went back to auto brightness and reduce white point off. That’s better.

 

[Chele]

Just a heads up but you might have to pay a restocking fee. It was $50 for me at T-Mobile. I was happy to do it, as the phone was worthless to me due to pwm.

Thank you for the head's up, I think that I'll be okay since I purchased mine from Apple. However, I agree with you...it's worth the $50 to get rid of the eye strain.

 

[edhchoe]

I am getting eye strain using my SE.
I need to upgrade

 

[miniyou64]

I think its a combination of the flicker and the motion together on iPhone XS. That definitely made things worse for me compared to the regular motion on LCD model iPhones.

[doublepost=1537837639][/doublepost]I had the iPhone X. I would use it at night with the brightness turned really low. It really messed up my vision. It just felt wrong. It was the flickering I guess. So I went back to the 7 Plus which had no such problem. But here’s the thing. I also have a problem with the amount of motion on the iPhone X screen like when pulling up from the bottom to go to the home screen when the icons move. That makes me feel nauseous too. Same with moving between apps by sliding along the bottom of the screen. I wonder if people who have a problem with PWM flicker also have a problem with too much motion?

[doublepost=1538070246][/doublepost]PSA for everyone, fight the return fee. If you complain enough, either the brick and mortar location or the customer service line will waive it. The restocking fee is ridiculous, and you should not have to pay when the phone is making you feel sick. It's not that you don't like the phone, its a physical issue and design flaw.

Thank you for the head's up, I think that I'll be okay since I purchased mine from Apple. However, I agree with you...it's worth the $50 to get rid of the eye strain.

 

[filmak]

I think its a combination of the flicker and the motion together on iPhone XS. That definitely made things worse for me compared to the regular motion on LCD model iPhones.


[doublepost=1538070246][/doublepost]PSA for everyone, fight the return fee. If you complain enough, either the brick and mortar location or the customer service line will waive it. The restocking fee is ridiculous, and you should not have to pay when the phone is making you feel sick. It's not that you don't like the phone, its a physical issue and design flaw.

Yes, but you can see how much they did suffer, they did not care about money, getting rid of it asap was the most important thing for them.

 

[kerplunknet]

I've returned two iPhones and a MacBook Pro to the Apple Store in the past 3 years and have never been charged a fee. Amazing return policy.

 

[thewhitetower]

For me, turning off ‘Attention Aware’ seems to have reduced the discomfort and strain considerably....and this within less than half an hour of turning it off

 

[tonybarnaby]

For me, turning off ‘Attention Aware’ seems to have reduced the discomfort and strain considerably....and this within less than half an hour of turning it off

You would be the first person who has found relief from that in this thread. That’s good to hear, but someone who is sensitive to pwm will experience a headache on an x model phone no matter what white balance, True Tone or brightness they use.