Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up

[miniyou64]

Yes, but you can see how much they did suffer, they did not care about money, getting rid of it asap was the most important thing for them.

Same for me. But it just rubs me the wrong way that they’re going to charge you because of something like this. Its not a preference about the phone its a necessity. Calling Customer Care after the fact can be successful too. They can waive it or bill credit it.

 

[MICHAELSD]

What’s interesting is that PWM sensitivity with the Apple Watch is nowhere near the scale of the iPhone X/XS, and is practically nonexistent in my research. While nobody’s formally measured the PWM of the Apple Watch’s OLED display, it appears on video to be a better and smoother implementation. Size and duration of use is irrelevant imo. I’ve used my Watch for minutes at a time with no issues while even staring at a notification on iPhone X gave me intense throbbing pain.

So it’s either the specific implementation of PWM in iPhone X/XS or FaceID causing these issues for those who are sensitive. I’m leaning towards the former but when iPhone XR is released we can find out for sure.

 

[ratspg]

What’s interesting is that PWM sensitivity with the Apple Watch is nowhere near the scale of the iPhone X/XS, and is practically nonexistent in my research. While nobody’s formally measured the PWM of the Apple Watch’s OLED display, it appears on video to be a better and smoother implementation. Size and duration of use is irrelevant imo. I’ve used my Watch for minutes at a time with no issues while even staring at a notification on iPhone X gave me intense throbbing pain.

So it’s either the specific implementation of PWM in iPhone X/XS or FaceID causing these issues for those who are sensitive. I’m leaning towards the former but when iPhone XR is released we can find out for sure.

I’ve been following all of your posts on the issue since last year and they’ve been very helpful. I have the same eye situation and always find this PWM topic interesting. Thanks for your ongoing help and research on it.

 

[5105973]

Quick question for you all since last year with my X my problems with it cropped up pretty fast though I was slow to understand and recognize what was going on. This time around you’ve all seen me say for days I’ve not been able to see the flicker on this phone and felt my eyes get along with it.

Have any of you had the symptoms just kind of creep up on you. Meaning everything fine for days and one day the headaches just start.

I had it this morning, a little headache. I chalked it up to just a morning thing. I put my Max on the charger and switched to my 8 Plus and the headache went away. I’ve been on my 8 Plus a lot of the day along with my iPad.

I know I am just too uncomfortable trying to read ebooks on the Max display. But I could dismiss that. It gives me an excuse to keep using my Red 8 Plus. But I thought I was fine, overall and that I could use this phone for the long haul.

But as the evening as progressed it takes less and less time for an ache to start on my nose bridge and then spread behind my eyes. I am not putting in more screen time in than usual today. I put the phone down, the ache subsides.

Anyway I was wondering if anyone else was fine, fine, fine and then suddenly not with this pwm crap. Thanks. Yeah I’m a bit grumpy. I love this phone.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Quick question for you all since last year with my X my problems with it cropped up pretty fast though I was slow to understand and recognize what was going on. This time around you’ve all seen me say for days I’ve not been able to see the flicker on this phone and felt my eyes get along with it.

Have any of you had the symptoms just kind of creep up on you. Meaning everything fine for days and one day the headaches just start.

I had it this morning, a little headache. I chalked it up to just a morning thing. I put my Max on the charger and switched to my 8 Plus and the headache went away. I’ve been on my 8 Plus a lot of the day along with my iPad.

I know I am just too uncomfortable trying to read ebooks on the Max display. But I could dismiss that. It gives me an excuse to keep using my Red 8 Plus. But I thought I was fine, overall and that I could use this phone for the long haul.

But as the evening as progressed it takes less and less time for an ache to start on my nose bridge and then spread behind my eyes. I am not putting in more screen time in than usual today. I put the phone down, the ache subsides.

Anyway I was wondering if anyone else was fine, fine, fine and then suddenly not with this pwm crap. Thanks. Yeah I’m a bit grumpy. I love this phone.

There will be the XR in October and new phones next year. Your best bet is to return the phone and wait until this is no longer an issue.

 

[TDDM]

Have any of you had the symptoms just kind of creep up on you. Meaning everything fine for days and one day the headaches just start.

Not for me, it pretty much started immediately and kept on bothering me. It may have gotten slightly better by messing with certain settings, but definitely never went away.

Anyway I was wondering if anyone else was fine, fine, fine and then suddenly not with this pwm crap. Thanks. Yeah I’m a bit grumpy. I love this phone.

Believe me, I know how you feel. I've been waiting for something like the Max for years, and it's the *perfect* phone for me besides the PWM. It's just not worth it though, especially with how PWM sensitivity is under the radar in terms of health effects.

I'm really hopeful for the XR though. Aside from the screen and lack of 3D touch, it pretty much nails the other important aspects.

 

[kerplunknet]

I might wait until 2019 to upgrade. I’m hoping they won’t use PWM and there won’t be a notch.

 

[jtl_]

Eye strain for me feels like this:

1. Makes eyes feel heavy and tired

2. Eyes become sore causing my eyes to dart in confusion. (Im sure it's a subconscious message sent from the eyes to the brain) Almost feels like an eye anxiety attack.

3. Migraines from pushing forward with screen work (Not work load) causing mental fatigue.

There is a significant difference between using a display with and with out PWM. (For me)

2018 MBP's have PWM when brightness is under 75%. So, I ether have a bright screen in the dark to avoid PWM, or use the MBP as intended with brightness down and take longer than average breaks.

I did have Lasik surgery on my eyes years back. Additionally, my eyes are extremely sensitive to LED lighting. Example, when looking at rear LED taillights (Worst are newer Dodge, Cadillac, Jeep's) in the dark, if I move my heads side to side, I see trails of light.

So... It's not a blast on Apple, it's just something I wish they would address. (For me)

I also don't care for the glass on Apples displays. At least they laminate the display to the glass to avoid air gaps. However, I would rather have an anti-glare or glossy display without glass. (Again... For me)

I don't like the "glass"/glossy screens either.

I'm not doubting you, but I think it would be quite interesting from a scientific standpoint if your eyes really were sensitive to 120Khz PWM and it wasn't caused by something else. I interviewed an Apple display engineer many years ago who revealed that the Macbooks had "around 100Khz PWM under 50% brightness" which fits within your claims, not to mention this was a number of years ago so it could be different now.

Dithering, subpixel layout and the wavelength "intensity" can also be factors of eyestrain, *even* for PWM sensitive people.

 

[Samut]

Has anyone got reply from Apple whether Iphone Xr will be using PWM?

I sent feedback to them but it would seem that I need to contact them through support in order to get a reply? Does anyone know whether there is a contact form I could use for that?

 

[john g.]

What’s interesting is that PWM sensitivity with the Apple Watch is nowhere near the scale of the iPhone X/XS, and is practically nonexistent in my research. While nobody’s formally measured the PWM of the Apple Watch’s OLED display, it appears on video to be a better and smoother implementation. Size and duration of use is irrelevant imo. I’ve used my Watch for minutes at a time with no issues while even staring at a notification on iPhone X gave me intense throbbing pain.

So it’s either the specific implementation of PWM in iPhone X/XS or FaceID causing these issues for those who are sensitive. I’m leaning towards the former but when iPhone XR is released we can find out for sure.

Agree. I can't even look at the screen of the X in a store without tweaking, but I own a series 3 AW and never have the slightest bit of discomfort.

 

[karinatwork]

I got the Watch 4 yesterday and I filmed it with super slow motion, and there is not the slightest bit of flickering at all. Just like the previous models. There is a more pronounced blue tint when viewing the screen at an angle, so I was worried it would be flickering like the X/XS, but it's totally fine. Apple CAN do it if they want to. They just don't want to.

 

[kerplunknet]

Has anyone got reply from Apple whether Iphone Xr will be using PWM?

I sent feedback to them but it would seem that I need to contact them through support in order to get a reply? Does anyone know whether there is a contact form I could use for that?

I had a ticket open with them and an engineer said that Apple does not publish that information.

But don’t worry, the environment is safe... just not our eyes.

 

[5105973]

Not for me, it pretty much started immediately and kept on bothering me. It may have gotten slightly better by messing with certain settings, but definitely never went away.


Believe me, I know how you feel. I've been waiting for something like the Max for years, and it's the *perfect* phone for me besides the PWM. It's just not worth it though, especially with how PWM sensitivity is under the radar in terms of health effects.

I'm really hopeful for the XR though. Aside from the screen and lack of 3D touch, it pretty much nails the other important aspects.

I’ve got a bad heache all around today. I woke up with it. And today is a sunny day and I’ll have to drive past trees that have already started losing leaves, which means sunlight flickering through semi-bare trees, which is a nightmare for migraine sufferers. I’m not going to try to evaluate my Max display today.

I’m still not completely sure my setback yesterday was caused by the pwm. Was it made worse by it? Probably. But it’s hard to imagine it was caused by it when I was fine for days.

I’m using my 8 Plus at the moment but did also look at my Max for a while. With the shape my head was already in, it doesn’t matter, I was not going to feel great either way.

I do want to give this phone a fair chance. When I read of all the complaints other people have about their phones I appreciate how nice mine is and how lucky I was to have gotten a good one. I’ve got another few days to evaluate and see what happens.

 

[kerplunknet]

Hopefully we can keep this topic on the subject of PWM and the new iPhone models, but in general, for headaches, I've found that my head/neck gets really tight when my shoulder muscles are tight. Use your fingers to press on different parts of your shoulders and if you find a tight spot, hold down and press on the spot until it loosens up. That has helped me tremendously. Also, anxiety can be a killer when it comes to migraines/headaches. Just some quick tips.

 

[TheBoxer]

I returned my Xs M yesterday and all my headache issues have disappeared. I plan to give the Xr a try once its released, for now, I'm using my old iPhone.

 

[kerplunknet]

The more I think about the iPhone X* PWM usage, the more it bothers me. I hope it was seriously just something that Apple engineers overlooked. If the 2019 iPhones still use PWM, I am going to seriously consider an Android phone without PWM.

PWM is the devil and should not be used in any product, including light bulbs, car headlamps, etc.

 

[Burnsey]

Has anyone got reply from Apple whether Iphone Xr will be using PWM?

I sent feedback to them but it would seem that I need to contact them through support in order to get a reply? Does anyone know whether there is a contact form I could use for that?

The XR is LCD it shouldn't be using PWM, it has a physical backlight.

 

[user1234]

The more I think about the iPhone X* PWM usage, the more it bothers me. I hope it was seriously just something that Apple engineers overlooked. If the 2019 iPhones still use PWM, I am going to seriously consider an Android phone without PWM.

PWM is the devil and should not be used in any product, including light bulbs, car headlamps, etc.

The Android world is starting to get slim too. Most good phones use OLED now. That’s one reason I’m now switching to the iPhone XR. Google has not provided me with any LCD options to upgrade my Nexus 5X. I don’t want to buy from another manufacturer which lags behind with software and security updates.

Plus, some of the iOS apps are great and the iPhone integrates well with my Mac and iPad. I too hope Apple will find another way with the top X models, but the XR is going to be fine for me given that it’s not the first LCD iPhone to use PWM.

And as a side note: I have had issues with LED tail lights for a while. The implementation Volvo used in their first gen LED based cars seems to be the worst for me. Gives me motion sickness and tunnel vision.
[doublepost=1538250913][/doublepost]

The XR is LCD it shouldn't be using PWM, it has a physical backlight.

That’s the hope, but so does the LG G5 and G6. And even the G7 which uses the same LCD technology the XR is using. Apple seem to be better with this so there is hope.

 

[5105973]

My headache was gone yesterday after some aspirin and Tylenol and a lot of hydration. I have been using my Max all of today. I turned off Face ID just to eliminate any possibility of irritation from it. My eyes aren’t hurting but I can’t focus properly on the text on this forum anymore. I played some Animal Crossing. No pain, but everything looks kind of fuzzy.

I looked at my husband’s Huawei P20 Pro OLED display. I can focus on it. It looks very much like my IPhone 8 Plus display but I can just barely detect the subtle twitch of flicker. I guess it’s on a par with the S9+ that I use regularly with no problems. However I don’t have all day access to that phone so I can’t say how it would be to use it for any length of time.

I guess in my case with this particular iPhone OLED display it did take a few days for effects to become cumulative to the point I realize I can’t keep it. I had thought initially I would be able to tell right away. But that wasn’t the case.

I do not know if my migraine had anything to do with the pwm display. I kind of doubt it. I do have a known migraine disorder, after all, and many things can trigger it. It’s just clear that once I am in full swing with a headache, that the display noticeably aggravates it or ratchets it up a notch, pun intended.

So that’s how it worked out in my case. I’m just recording it as a reference for anyone else who is trying to figure out their own situation.

It was tricky in my case, because my symptoms and issues took a bit longer to manifest this time around, probably because my display was a better quality this time than that of my X last winter which had a more noticeable flicker.

I have tried the display with both True Tone off and on, as well as other settings adjusted to see what effect they’d have.

My optimal settings for best level of comfort were with Auto Brightness On, True Tone On, and no adjustments made to reduce white point. I viewed videos, read and composed emails, participated in this forum, and played Animal Crossing Pocket Camp for about 20 minutes.

Major complaint today was blurry vision and inability to focus properly, especially on text letters.

I’ve looked with both no glasses on and using my glasses that have polarized lenses and light adjusting anti glare coating. These glasses seem to make no difference at all.

My vision returns to normal after about a 10 minute break and I can see and enjoy my 8 Plus display just fine.

And that’s the way the cookie crumbled, my friends.

I offer my thanks and appreciation to all who participate in this thread and helped me figure things out this go-around. I wish all of us luck on our alternatives. I will give feedback to Apple as well as provide an explanation if asked when I return the phone. Though really they don’t ever seem to care or write down why a phone is being returned.

 

[TDDM]

Bit the bullet and returned my Max yesterday, I figure there's no point in keeping it until the end of the return period. Really hoping the XR is PWM free, I guess there's no way to know until launch though.

One thing that gives me hope: the XR is rumored to be the best seller this year. If that does end up happening, I could see Apple continuing the LCD line-up next year due to the popularity. This is all wishful thinking though

 

[sddabrow]

Have had my iPhone XS Max for 2 days now and absolutely love it. However, I am noticing pressure behind my left eye, almost like sinus pressure. Really hope it isn’t the PWM, will have to try it out this week by using the phone 1 day and setting it down all day another.

Have never had any eye issues, no glasses, no migraines or headaches.

Hopefully it’s all mental from reading these forums!

 

[Faste]

I have much less strain from the iPhone XS Max then the iPhone X and XS. Still not free of eye strain however.

 

[kerplunknet]

I hope everyone who is returning their XS devices makes sure the reason is recorded as “eye strain from PWM.”

 

[MICHAELSD]

My headache was gone yesterday after some aspirin and Tylenol and a lot of hydration. I have been using my Max all of today. I turned off Face ID just to eliminate any possibility of irritation from it. My eyes aren’t hurting but I can’t focus properly on the text on this forum anymore. I played some Animal Crossing. No pain, but everything looks kind of fuzzy.

I looked at my husband’s Huawei P20 Pro OLED display. I can focus on it. It looks very much like my IPhone 8 Plus display but I can just barely detect the subtle twitch of flicker. I guess it’s on a par with the S9+ that I use regularly with no problems. However I don’t have all day access to that phone so I can’t say how it would be to use it for any length of time.

I guess in my case with this particular iPhone OLED display it did take a few days for effects to become cumulative to the point I realize I can’t keep it. I had thought initially I would be able to tell right away. But that wasn’t the case.

I do not know if my migraine had anything to do with the pwm display. I kind of doubt it. I do have a known migraine disorder, after all, and many things can trigger it. It’s just clear that once I am in full swing with a headache, that the display noticeably aggravates it or ratchets it up a notch, pun intended.

So that’s how it worked out in my case. I’m just recording it as a reference for anyone else who is trying to figure out their own situation.

It was tricky in my case, because my symptoms and issues took a bit longer to manifest this time around, probably because my display was a better quality this time than that of my X last winter which had a more noticeable flicker.

I have tried the display with both True Tone off and on, as well as other settings adjusted to see what effect they’d have.

My optimal settings for best level of comfort were with Auto Brightness On, True Tone On, and no adjustments made to reduce white point. I viewed videos, read and composed emails, participated in this forum, and played Animal Crossing Pocket Camp for about 20 minutes.

Major complaint today was blurry vision and inability to focus properly, especially on text letters.

I’ve looked with both no glasses on and using my glasses that have polarized lenses and light adjusting anti glare coating. These glasses seem to make no difference at all.

My vision returns to normal after about a 10 minute break and I can see and enjoy my 8 Plus display just fine.

And that’s the way the cookie crumbled, my friends.

I offer my thanks and appreciation to all who participate in this thread and helped me figure things out this go-around. I wish all of us luck on our alternatives. I will give feedback to Apple as well as provide an explanation if asked when I return the phone. Though really they don’t ever seem to care or write down why a phone is being returned.

I know we all love the new iPhones because they’re great phones (the XS Max looks especially beautiful in photos) but your health is worth more than using the latest and greatest iPhone, and that’s coming from a guy who’s only ever used the newest iPhones.

I was up late on pre-order night and decided to pre-order an XS Max for store pickup in case it was found that this issue was resolved, though I wasn’t optimistic. Unfortunately I ended up canceling that order since the PWM on the XS is similar to the X. I won’t expose myself to PWM on an iPhone again so I’ll wait until it’s completely eliminated, whether that’s next generation or years away.

 

[5105973]

I know we all love the new iPhones because they’re great phones (the XS Max looks especially beautiful in photos) but your health is worth more than using the latest and greatest iPhone, and that’s coming from a guy who’s only ever used the newest iPhones.

I was up late on pre-order night and decided to pre-order an XS Max for store pickup in case it was found that this issue was resolved, though I wasn’t optimistic. Unfortunately I ended up canceling that order since the PWM on the XS is similar to the X. I won’t expose myself to PWM on an iPhone again so I’ll wait until it’s completely eliminated, whether that’s next generation or years away.

Thank you for your post. And thank you for all you’ve done to raise awareness of this issue among the community of Apple users and with Apple directly.

This is serious, indeed. Something about the last couple of days with the Max made me highly sensitized and I can’t even look at my Samsung display right now and I ran into some difficulties withstanding store lighting while grocery shopping earlier in the evening.

The Max was actually reset and packaged up shortly after I made my last post in this thread. I’m doing well back on my 8 Plus.