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rnbarg

macrumors member
Apr 27, 2015
97
115
This is a fascinating and informative thread, one I wished I would have consulted before ordering a gold XS Max, which I returned after a week because of issues w/tolerating the OLED screen. This is a long post and I hope it will help other people.

I have upgraded my iPhone every year since its inception. I get caught up in the hype surrounding each year's Sept. event and listen to a lot of podcasts by well-known bloggers such as John Gruber. Prior to ordering the XS Max, I had an 8 Plus. I love the Plus-sized phones and have had both the 6 and 7 Plus. When the X came out last year, I passed. I wanted a plus-sized phone. However, I did look at the X at the Apple Store and I was uncomfortable looking at the display. Nonetheless I went ahead ordering the XS Max at 12:00 a.m. PST from T-Mobile.

When the phone came I was extremely excited. I kept the phone for a week. Initially, I was focused on figuring out how I would adjust to the lack of a home button and the extra dexterity needed to use the app switcher. I was able to adjust to this, although switching apps clearly takes milliseconds longer which add up. The next issue was whether to use a case. Since the 6, I have used Apple's silicone case. However, the XS Max is a bit more tactile and the gold is gorgeous. It was scary carrying the phone around w/out a case, so I purchased Apple Care Plus for $199.00. In fact, the phone was dropped once when I knocked it off my bed. Luckily is hit a wood floor as wasn't damaged. I decided to go w/the black case.

I have always had very high sensitivity to light and to certain types of displays. Before switching to the Mac platform (iMac w/Retina display in 2015 that I have no issues w/), I was using the Samsung 305T 30" TFT Active Matrix based on S-PVA, non S-IPS panel technology. My eyes could not tolerate any of the PC-based high-end IPS monitors from Dell and other companies due the perception of seeing speckles on the white background. 95% of high-end (non-TN) monitors used this technology.

Once I started using the XS Max as a content consumption device, i.e. surfing the web, reading emails etc. I noticed how uncomfortable I was and how my preoccupation w/the screen dynamics was interfering with my ability to absorb what I was reading. The XS Max uses an OLED screen and an emissive technology vs. a backlight used on Apple's excellent LCD screens. My perception of the screen was of a flat piece of paper w/no depth that was lit up. I found it overwhelming. The size of the screen exacerbated the effect. Although the form factor (physical size) of the XS Max is the same as 8 plus, there is a lot more information on the screen. I did not get any headaches, but I could never get comfortable with the display.

For some comparison on size, etc. see https://newatlas.com/apple-comparison-2018-iphone-x-xr-xs-xsmax-8-7-plus/56362/

Clearly, the text on the XS Max is incredibly clear, the keyboard is superior to the 8 plus, and its noticeably snappier. But I also found the black bar at the bottom of the screen on the XS Max which is the virtual equivalent of a home button to be distracting especially when it covered up text and was omnipresent when watching TIVO-ed shows in landscape mode. Tried as I did, changing brightness and other settings, I could never get comfortable with the screen. I did not change the white point setting, which I might try at the store, but based on this thread, that really doesn't solve the problem.

So yesterday, I contacted Apple and cancelled the Apple Care which you can do for 30 days. I then arranged a return w/T-Mobile. Some thoughts about considering the XR when it ships to replace my 8 Plus: To me, given my use of the phone, the XR would be a downgrade from the 8 Plus. First, the 8 Plus has a resolution of 1920x1080 "1080P" - it is perfect for watching videos. This works out to about 2M pixels. The XR has a sub 1080p resolution and 1.4M pixels. That means it will display 40% less viewable information than the 8 Plus, even less if you subtract the horizontal area bordering the notch. The 8 Plus has a PPI of 401 vs 326 on the XR. Sure, you can argue that the 326 is still retina and 720p which is what the XR would be rounded down to on YouTube videos is indistinguishable from 1080p. Fair points, but still a difference, subtle but perceptible. The two features I use extensively on the 8 Plus, optical zoom (2X on the camera) and yes Force Touch (to log in to my corporate VPN which sends me a text message to authenticate) are missing on the XR. I will look at the XR, but probably will pass.

Like the "key-traveless" keyboard on the MacBook Pros post June 2015, which provide almost no tactile feedback compared to previous keyboards, there is never going to be an upgrade path for me on Mac notebooks. I'm afraid the same may be true of iPhones. I will probably be using my 8 plus 3 years from now.
 
Last edited:

filmak

macrumors 65816
Jun 21, 2012
1,418
777
between earth and heaven
This is a fascinating and informative thread, one I wished I would have consulted before ordering a gold XS Max, which I returned after a week because of issues w/tolerating the OLED screen. This is a long post and I hope it will help other people.

I have upgraded my iPhone every year since its inception. I get caught up in the hype surrounding each year's Sept. event and listen to a lot of podcasts by well-known bloggers such as John Gruber. Prior to ordering the XS Max, I had an 8 Plus. I love the Plus-sized phones and have had both the 6 and 7 Plus. When the X came out last year, I passed. I wanted a plus-sized phone. However, I did look at the X at the Apple Store and I was uncomfortable looking at the display. Nonetheless I went ahead ordering the XS Max at 12:00 a.m. PST from T-Mobile.

When the phone came I was extremely excited. I kept the phone for a week. Initially, I was focused on figuring out how I would adjust to the lack of a home button and the extra dexterity needed to use the app switcher. I was able to adjust to this, although switching apps clearly takes milliseconds longer which add up. The next issue was whether to use a case. Since the 6, I have used Apple's silicone case. However, the XS Max is a bit more tactile and the gold is gorgeous. It was scary carrying the phone around w/out a case, so I purchased Apple Care Plus for $199.00. In fact, the phone was dropped once when I knocked it off my bed. Luckily is hit a wood floor as wasn't damaged. I decided to go w/the black case.

I have always had very high sensitivity to light and to certain types of displays. Before switching to the Mac platform (iMac w/Retina display in 2015 that I have no issues w/), I was using the Samsung 305T 30" TFT Active Matrix based on S-PVA, non S-IPS panel technology. My eyes could not tolerate any of the PC-based high-end IPS monitors from Dell and other companies due the perception of seeing speckles on the white background. 95% of high-end (non-TN) monitors used this technology.

Once I started using the XS Max as a content consumption device, i.e. surfing the web, reading emails etc. I noticed how uncomfortable I was and how my preoccupation w/the screen dynamics was interfering with my ability to absorb what I was reading. The XS Max uses an OLED screen and an emissive technology vs. a backlight used on Apple's excellent LCD screens. My perception of the screen was of a flat piece of paper w/no depth that was lit up. I found it overwhelming. The size of the screen exacerbated the effect. Although the form factor (physical size) of the XS Max is the same as 8 plus, there is a lot more information on the screen. I did not get any headaches, but I could never get comfortable with the display.

For some comparison on size, etc. see https://newatlas.com/apple-comparison-2018-iphone-x-xr-xs-xsmax-8-7-plus/56362/

Clearly, the text on the XS Max is incredibly clear, the keyboard is superior to the 8 plus, and its noticeably snappier. But I also found the black bar at the bottom of the screen on the XS Max which is the virtual equivalent of a home button to be distracting especially when it covered up text and was omnipresent when watching TIVO-ed shows in landscape mode. Tried as I did, changing brightness and other settings, I could never get comfortable with the screen. I did not change the white point setting, which I might try at the store, but based on this thread, that really doesn't solve the problem.

So yesterday, I contacted Apple and cancelled the Apple Care which you can do for 30 days. I then arranged a return w/T-Mobile. Some thoughts about considering the XR when it ships to replace my 8 Plus: To me, given my use of the phone, the XR would be a downgrade from the 8 Plus. First, the 8 Plus has a resolution of 1920x1080 "1080P" - it is perfect for watching videos. This works out to about 2M pixels. The XR has a sub 1080p resolution and 1.4M pixels. That means it will display 40% less viewable information than the 8 Plus, even less if you subtract the horizontal area bordering the notch. The 8 Plus has a PPI of 401 vs 326 on the XR. Sure, you can argue that the 326 is still retina and 720p which is what the XR would be rounded down to on YouTube videos is indistinguishable from 1080p. Fair points, but still a difference, subtle but perceptible. The two features I use extensively on the 8 Plus, optical zoom (2X on the camera) and yes Force Touch (to log in to my corporate VPN which sends me a text message to authenticate) are missing on the XR. I will look at the XR, but probably will pass.

Like the "key-traveless" keyboard on the MacBook Pros post June 2015, which provide almost no tactile feedback compared to previous keyboards, there is never going to be an upgrade path for me on Mac notebooks. I'm afraid the same may be true of iPhones. I will probably be using my 8 plus 3 years from now.
I wish you all the best.
I agree that there are some concerns with the latest offerings from Apple. I really hope that there will be some fixes in the future regarding the Macs and iPhones(and iPads), also some better QC would be very welcome.
 
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rnbarg

macrumors member
Apr 27, 2015
97
115
I wish you all the best.
I agree that there are some concerns with the latest offerings from Apple. I really hope that there will be some fixes in the future regarding the Macs and iPhones(and iPads), also some better QC would be very welcome.

Thanks for your comment.

Someone forwarded me this link in response to my post:
https://blog.elcomsoft.com/2018/03/...to-stop-oled-flickering-in-just-three-clicks/

At the end it says:

"Once you set the brightness slider to PWM-free level (somewhere around 50% brightness), your iPhone X OLED display will become PWM free at effective brightness that are comfortable for dark environments. But what about bright ambient lighting? You won’t want to have this screen filter on at all times, just in the dark!

No worries, Apple has another option for you to make switching the filter on or off as easy as tapping the Sleep/Wake button three times. Search Settings for “Accessibility Shortcut”, enable and configure it to invoke “Reduce White Point” as shown on the screen shots below.”

Interesting workaround, but still requires micromanaging the ambient environment by triple clicking the sleep/wake button to switch a filter on and off.
 

TDDM

macrumors 6502
Nov 25, 2017
490
634
KA
Thanks for your comment.

Someone forwarded me this link in response to my post:
https://blog.elcomsoft.com/2018/03/...to-stop-oled-flickering-in-just-three-clicks/

At the end it says:

"Once you set the brightness slider to PWM-free level (somewhere around 50% brightness), your iPhone X OLED display will become PWM free at effective brightness that are comfortable for dark environments. But what about bright ambient lighting? You won’t want to have this screen filter on at all times, just in the dark!

No worries, Apple has another option for you to make switching the filter on or off as easy as tapping the Sleep/Wake button three times. Search Settings for “Accessibility Shortcut”, enable and configure it to invoke “Reduce White Point” as shown on the screen shots below.”

Interesting workaround, but still requires micromanaging the ambient environment by triple clicking the sleep/wake button to switch a filter on and off.
We've discussed that link extensively, it unfortunately doesn't work at all. The iPhone X/XS have PWM at every brightness level, there's no way to be rid of it just by adjusting settings.
 

kerplunknet

Cancelled
Oct 8, 2006
836
1,885
We've discussed that link extensively, it unfortunately doesn't work at all. The iPhone X/XS have PWM at every brightness level, there's no way to be rid of it just by adjusting settings.
I wish we could sticky this in this thread. :)
 

MICHAELSD

macrumors 603
Jul 13, 2008
5,484
3,494
NJ
ixbt.com posted their measurements of the PWM on iPhone XS:


oledmod.png



For reference, here were their measurements of iPhone X:


oled-mod.png



Max forthcoming.
 

Appleddappled

macrumors newbie
Oct 2, 2018
1
1
I literally agree, I rarely go above the sun icon... now I’m starting to think that maybe True Tone could be the culprit? I know that it should alleviate eye strain but..
Brightness MAY be a factor but if the headache is specifically related to the iPhone X then it’s probably due to PWM.
Pulse width modulation simply put is a flickering about 240x per second, not recognizable to the naked eye but can still cause problems like eye strain and headaches. The flickering shoukd stop when the phone is set to full brightness
[doublepost=1538472148][/doublepost]
Brightness MAY be a factor but if the headache is specifically related to the iPhone X then it’s probably due to PWM.
Pulse width modulation simply put is a flickering about 240x per second, not recognizable to the naked eye but can still cause problems like eye strain and headaches. The flickering shoukd stop when the phone is set to full brightness
Also there are a lot of vidoes about this on youtube and even scientific testing regarding pwm in the iphone x.
 
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vijayvasa

macrumors member
May 28, 2010
64
14
Guys I am having the same problem since 3 months with headache which I suddenly started noticing. First I thought I had sight and got my eyes checked. But after seeing this forum I have to agree IPhone X might be the problem. It’s not yet proved. So am here to try my options. First I have gone back to old iPhone 5s to rule out this issue.

Second I am thinking that if there is any need to apply matte screen might help with headache. Can anyone tell me if it helps with matte screen ? I don’t want to see the device as resale value is too low since I bought it.
 

Roadstar

macrumors 68000
Sep 24, 2006
1,723
2,190
Vantaa, Finland
Second I am thinking that if there is any need to apply matte screen might help with headache. Can anyone tell me if it helps with matte screen ? I don’t want to see the device as resale value is too low since I bought it.

I’m afraid that altering the screen’s coating won’t help that much with an issue that stems from how the panel implements backlighting.
 
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vijayvasa

macrumors member
May 28, 2010
64
14
I’m afraid that altering the screen’s coating won’t help that much with an issue that stems from how the panel implements backlighting.

**** then. I paid 1149 for this and 3 months of headaches with lot of unnecessary paracetamols and new eye glasses. Now the resale value is around 650. ‍♂️ serves me right.
 
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Tb87Bln

macrumors 6502
Dec 10, 2016
290
375
I just returned my iPhone Xs... :(
Tough decision cause I loved it and I “only” had light eye-stain... but I look on the display so long and often so I don’t wanna risk anything...

And the Xr (which hopefully won’t be problematic) is pretty nice actually... 128Gb and that great battery life is charming... ;) I just hope It won’t feel to big but I gues I’ll get used to it...
 

miniyou64

macrumors 6502a
Jul 8, 2008
752
2,696
I’ve googled it plenty. No major Apple news source has covered this.

It is not so hard these days to learn about something.
Google it: iPhone x eye strain
Only in Apple discussions there are 438 hits.
In reddit too (62.300 hits - what is this?)
etc
Enjoy your reading.
[doublepost=1538405401][/doublepost]All of these plus the modem problems, the early face ID, charging issues etc made me just buy an 8 plus, as it is a more mature product right now.
 

snc

macrumors regular
Jan 29, 2016
249
80
Bought iPhone xs max and have same problem. I'm really suprised because I wasn't aware of it at all (heard about antena and charing problems[btw noticed charging problem also but its nothing comparing to headache]). In past I had galaxy s4 with amoled and strangely didn't have problem with that phone. I guess I will have to return it and wait for lcd iphone xr.
 

sddabrow

macrumors 6502
Oct 7, 2011
327
62
Seemed to have eye strain all day, tired and pressure on the eyes. Switched to the iPad when I got home and haven’t noticed it a bit. Really sucks because I love the XS Max.

Going to try not using the phone tomorrow to see what happens. If no eye strain, will try picking it back up and using it a bunch on Thursday.

My phones are bought through my company so no idea how the exchange process would work. Big PITA cuz the XS Max really is a nice phone.
 

Thrillman

macrumors newbie
Oct 2, 2018
1
0
Hello all,

I thought I'd post here about an issue I've been having and see if anyone else is experiencing the same thing.

When I'm using the phone my eyes feel strained, like, they're trying to focus on the screen. Also, I've noticed that when I look away from my phone at something else, my eyes feel a little blurry and I have to blink.

Not sure why this is happening. I've tweaked with all the various displays settings (TrueTone/Night Shift/White balance), but nothing seems to make a real difference. Not using a screen protector.

Anyone else?
[doublepost=1538528653][/doublepost]Within a couple months of me switching to an iPhone X from an iPhone 7 my eyes have gone south. They used to be twice as good as my wife’s and now they are half as good as my wife’s. Especially after looking at the screen while trying to watch TV. Then they remain foggy. I think this phone might be destroying my eyesight because of the high powered screen?
 

filmak

macrumors 65816
Jun 21, 2012
1,418
777
between earth and heaven
Last edited:
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neil74

macrumors 6502
Sep 20, 2017
341
300
Yes, indeed.
I have misunderstood about it.
I thought it was about general references from anyone, not from major news services.
Fast reading victim.
I 'm very sorry, I apologize, especially to kerplunknet.:)

From Apple news sources, MacWorld had an article about the headaches.
https://www.macworld.co.uk/news/iphone/iphone-x-problems-3639808/

I'm curious, how do the iPhone X/Xs/Xs max compare to other OLED displays? I have never heard of Samsung owners complaining of this for example?
 

Tijdelijk

macrumors 6502
Jul 8, 2017
267
234
I'm curious, how do the iPhone X/Xs/Xs max compare to other OLED displays? I have never heard of Samsung owners complaining of this for example?

Maybe because they don't know better.
Samsung is using oled for years.

IPhone screens has always been flickering free LCD screens until the X
 

Hotpinkflamingoaz

macrumors regular
Sep 26, 2018
162
116
Az
That’s really interesting.

I have chronic migraines, to the point where I get Botox for migraines, and take two prophylactic meds daily. I also get something called optical migraines, which are a different type of migraine altogether. I’m pretty sensitive to screens, and various types of lights in general.

I haven’t noticed anything different since Friday.

I’ll keep an eye (lol) on it moving forward.
I’m chronic as well and haven’t noticed anything different. I thought of anyone I would :)
 
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ghsDUDE

macrumors 68030
May 25, 2010
2,948
763
I’m returning my XS Max tomorrow (256gb) with AppleCare. That’s $1,549 with taxes!

Was going to get the XR, but the PPI is what kills that phone for me. Just pulled the trigger on a 7 Plus (128gb) in Jet Black for $569 on the Apple Refurb store.

I know it’s a “downgrade” but I’ll be saving over $900 until Apple somehow figures this out next year by fixing the PWM or updating the PPI on the XR.
 

kerplunknet

Cancelled
Oct 8, 2006
836
1,885
The longer I wait for the iPhone XR, the more I think that my iPhone 7 is perfectly adequate.

It’s not too big, no PWM, no Face ID and IR blasting my eyeballs, no notch, etc. I really hope Apple figures this stuff out.
 
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ssledoux

macrumors 601
Sep 16, 2006
4,412
4,243
Down south
The longer I wait for the iPhone XR, the more I think that my iPhone 7 is perfectly adequate.

It’s not too big, no PWM, no Face ID and IR blasting my eyeballs, no notch, etc. I really hope Apple figures this stuff out.

I feel like that as well. I have an 8+, and though I am itching for a new phone after returning my Max, I know, deep down, it’s likely pretty stupid.

At this point, the only reason I may do it (other than just wanting something new and different because I’m a sucker) is because my daughter’s phone is having some issues and I might pass her my 8+.
 
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