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Why is this topic still going on? They’ve made an entire device for you guys! The Xr. If you eyes can’t handle OLED then use that. This issue does not affect everyone so I would be hard pressed to call it a “defect”. Just like some people are affected by flashing images and warnings are posted. Does that mean that they should remove any form of flashing imagery from cinematography just for the percentile that are affected??

Honestly, I could see your reasons for upset when the X was launched but they’ve now released an LCD version. If you wanna whine about the resolution and pretend you notice a deal breaking difference then move on over to Android. I’m sure there’s a device that will satisfy you. Otherwise grab a Xr and be done with it.

If people are claiming to suffer headaches from the Xr also then it could be something in the FaceID technology in which case I advise to either just use your pin and turn off FaceID or otherwise move on cause you’re outta luck.

I don’t think Apple has done anything wrong here. If your complaint is for them not including an appropriate health warning with their product (I’ve no idea) then by all means bring this to their attention as that IS an issue (I should note that a thread on a random discussion forum does not count as bringing it to their attention), although if said warning does already exist then the responsibility lies solely with you.

Long story short. Report it to Apple already, return your devices for now and stop beating a dead horse.
There are alternatives, just not alternatives people want to use. There's a difference. It's fine if they want to use Apple and all that, just don't talk out the side of your mouth while doing it.

You can support a company and be critical but don't say you're going to vote with your wallet when you're really not.
Agreed - In my case, I have an iPhone 8 Plus, 2nd Gen iPad Pro and 2015 MacBook Pro. I am clearly not happy with subsequent models, but my current devices fit the bill for me and Apple's software and ecosystem is unparalleled, in particular iMessage. Android is not an option for me. I also have an Apple Watch 4 which has made a huge difference in my life and 3 Apple TVs. Respectfully, I think Apple missed the mark with their XS, XR and 3rd Gen iPads for varying reasons focusing specifically on the way they implemented their display technology. (Probably that's a minority view.) Also noteworthy are the nosebleed prices Apple is charging for these new devices. It's pretty clear from the supply chain that in particular the XR will not meet sales expectations and the stock is tanking. It's recently lost over $100B in value. https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/15/app...amid-rumors-apple-is-scaling-back-iphone.html
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Your conclusion is that eye strain is caused by the Liquid Retina technology and not FaceID, as far as i understand.

That would be actually quite good, as i feel FaceID will last longer than the current display technology
Not sure. But I do have an issues with both new LCD/Liquid Retina and OLED displays. The faceID is creepy to me when it logs you into sites, but most people probably don't feel that way. I don't hold out much hope Apple will materially change their display technology. Between iPhone 6/S/7/S/8 and Plus variants, they hardly changed the basic screen or design. That's 5 years. Apple is also very stubborn. They know what's best for the customer, PERIOD. The butterfly keyboard design introduced on the 2016 MacBook/MBPs has been panned as having little or no key travel and Apple has been skewered by even some its most ardent fanboys. Yet in subsequent interactions, they have merely tweaked it.

https://marco.org/2017/11/24/fixing-the-macbook-pro

"Butterfly keyswitches are a design failure that should be abandoned. They’ve been controversial, fatally unreliable, and expensive to repair since their introduction on the first 12” MacBook in early 2015. Their flaws were evident immediately, yet Apple brought them to the entire MacBook Pro lineup in late 2016.

After three significant revisions, Apple’s butterfly keyswitches remain as controversial and unreliable as ever. At best, they’re a compromise acceptable only on the ultra-thin 12” MacBook, and only if nothing else fits. They have no place in Apple’s mainstream or pro computers."
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Why is this topic still going on? They’ve made an entire device for you guys! The Xr. If you eyes can’t handle OLED then use that. This issue does not affect everyone so I would be hard pressed to call it a “defect”. Just like some people are affected by flashing images and warnings are posted. Does that mean that they should remove any form of flashing imagery from cinematography just for the percentile that are affected??

Honestly, I could see your reasons for upset when the X was launched but they’ve now released an LCD version. If you wanna whine about the resolution and pretend you notice a deal breaking difference then move on over to Android. I’m sure there’s a device that will satisfy you. Otherwise grab a Xr and be done with it.

If people are claiming to suffer headaches from the Xr also then it could be something in the FaceID technology in which case I advise to either just use your pin and turn off FaceID or otherwise move on cause you’re outta luck.

I don’t think Apple has done anything wrong here. If your complaint is for them not including an appropriate health warning with their product (I’ve no idea) then by all means bring this to their attention as that IS an issue (I should note that a thread on a random discussion forum does not count as bringing it to their attention), although if said warning does already exist then the responsibility lies solely with you.

Long story short. Report it to Apple already, return your devices for now and stop beating a dead horse.
Your snarky, disagreeable, take it leave it reply is disrespectful to the hundreds who have posted on this thread and the thousands that have viewed and perhaps been aided in their buying decisions. Who made you the presiding judge of this forum? "Long story short" - if you don't like this thread, take your nasty rants elsewhere or start your own thread.
 
Anybody tried this? Does it help?

Nope, I suppose it just filters the “blue” wavelength thanks to a nanostructure embedded in the glass (which is still pretty cool and might help a bit). There is no way to filter out the flickering though
 
Held an XR for the first time today in store. Looked surprisingly just blurry and off coming from my 7 Plus. Probably the new displays coupled with the lower resolution.

I also got to test out the XS and XS Max for the first time, and yeah, I can definitely see what you guys are complaining about. My eyes started feeling strained by the time I put it down.
 
Well after a week of on off usage between the Max and my 7 plus (was waiting for case before going full time with Max) I'm gonna have to return as I can feel back of the eye strain and I'm getting mild headaches. Damn. :(

So with X series out and not liking the XR resolution I'm stuck on my 7+ for another year. Guess I could get a fresh battery but where do I go from here if I can't use Apple OLED? Guess I gotta hope XIR gets 1080p.

Gonna miss face ID and them loud speakers. Not gonna miss the weight or headaches though! £1250 back in the pocket....
 
Why is this topic still going on? They’ve made an entire device for you guys! The Xr. If you eyes can’t handle OLED then use that. This issue does not affect everyone so I would be hard pressed to call it a “defect”. Just like some people are affected by flashing images and warnings are posted. Does that mean that they should remove any form of flashing imagery from cinematography just for the percentile that are affected??

Honestly, I could see your reasons for upset when the X was launched but they’ve now released an LCD version. If you wanna whine about the resolution and pretend you notice a deal breaking difference then move on over to Android. I’m sure there’s a device that will satisfy you. Otherwise grab a Xr and be done with it.

If people are claiming to suffer headaches from the Xr also then it could be something in the FaceID technology in which case I advise to either just use your pin and turn off FaceID or otherwise move on cause you’re outta luck.

I don’t think Apple has done anything wrong here. If your complaint is for them not including an appropriate health warning with their product (I’ve no idea) then by all means bring this to their attention as that IS an issue (I should note that a thread on a random discussion forum does not count as bringing it to their attention), although if said warning does already exist then the responsibility lies solely with you.

Long story short. Report it to Apple already, return your devices for now and stop beating a dead horse.
Imagine going into a thread that has nothing to do with you and posting something like this, crazy.

Anyway, I'm really hoping that Apple increases the overall Hz for the next iPhones, or at least only uses PWM below a certain brightness like most other OLED phones. There's definitely still hope for next year.
 
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I'm still hoping for PWM-free OLED iPhones.
There is video that has been making the rounds about how easy it is to bend one of the new iPad Pros and with not a lot more pressure to bend in completely in half. This is due to the very thin glass it uses. I would not be surprised if the move to thinner glass and a new anti-reflective coating, account for some of issues of eye strain in 2018 IOS devices including the XS/Max, XR and 3rd generation iPad Pros (each of which I returned after never having missed an upgrade cycle). (See also Eye Strain on iPhoneXR? ) Just a theory, but I think numerous factors are at play.
 
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There is video that has been making the rounds about how easy it is to bend one of the new iPad Pros and with not a lot more pressure to bend in completely in half. This is due to the very thin glass it uses. I would not be surprised if the move to thinner glass and a new anti-reflective coating, account for some of issues of eye strain in 2018 IOS devices including the XS/Max, XR and 3rd generation iPad Pros (each of which I returned after never having missed an upgrade cycle). (See also Eye Strain on iPhoneXR? ) Just a theory, but I think numerous factors are at play.

I think you are right. The glass on my X series phones looks different than my 8+
 
Imagine going into a thread that has nothing to do with you and posting something like this, crazy.

Anyway, I'm really hoping that Apple increases the overall Hz for the next iPhones, or at least only uses PWM below a certain brightness like most other OLED phones. There's definitely still hope for next year.

It’s an open discussion forum in case you were unaware. I insulted nobody and therefore am just as entitled to my opinion as anybody else and my opinion is the Xr now exists for a reason. Don’t worry though. I have no intention of getting into a pointless argument so this shall be my last post in this thread unless somebody responds to me directly.

Have a good day.
 
Interesting update:

I decided to take advantage of Black Friday offers and try out the PSVR.

It’s basically an amoled display flickering at literally 5 cm from your eyes. Guess what?

I got nausea from the movements (which is normal), a bit of dry eyes, but none of the problems I get from looking at apple oled displays. None. ZERO!.

If look at my Apple Watch for more than a couple of seconds from 1-2 feet, I get severe eye strain and migraine. Same happened on the XSMax I returned.

What the hell did they do with their screens?
I seriously cannot believe this is not a widespread problem, I have perfect eye sight as well. I wonder how many suffer, even from mild symptoms without knowing.

Guess I’ll sell the AW and next year I’ll switch to Samsung if they don’t do something, fu** this sh*t.
 
PWM as a requirement for OLED phone displays is an awful limitation of the technology. OLED has no place in consumer electronic displays if PWM is necessary to make it viable.

I show people who own iPhone X, iPhone XS, or iPhone XS Max how the flickering is occurring in slo-mo, expecting them to be shocked and frustrated, but their reaction is always the same: they trust that Apple would never use a technology that could harm them. One of my friends gets headaches from her phone, and I showed her what was happening... STILL, she defended her iPhone X.

It is so stupid how phones have become such a major part of our lives, and it annoys me that we have to put so much thought and effort into discussion around this because Apple clearly is NOT doing the right thing for their consumers.

Although very unlikely, maybe Apple was not aware of this issue. Maybe. But over the past two years, we all have written Apple and there are thousands of posts about the issue, so if the 2019 iPhones still use PWM, that means that Apple is purposely implementing a technology that mathematically makes them more money even though it is bad for their consumers.
 
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Interesting update:

I decided to take advantage of Black Friday offers and try out the PSVR.

It’s basically an amoled display flickering at literally 5 cm from your eyes. Guess what?

I got nausea from the movements (which is normal), a bit of dry eyes, but none of the problems I get from looking at apple oled displays. None. ZERO!.

If look at my Apple Watch for more than a couple of seconds from 1-2 feet, I get severe eye strain and migraine. Same happened on the XSMax I returned.

What the hell did they do with their screens?
I seriously cannot believe this is not a widespread problem, I have perfect eye sight as well. I wonder how many suffer, even from mild symptoms without knowing.

Guess I’ll sell the AW and next year I’ll switch to Samsung if they don’t do something, fu** this sh*t.
I have no issue with the Apple Watch 4. But the XS Max was intolerable to read on. I am in full agreement otherwise with Francerx and he’s right about Apple. There’s no much smoke here. There’s an Eyegate or PCMGate.
 
PWM as a requirement for OLED phone displays is an awful limitation of the technology. OLED has no place in consumer electronic displays if PWM is necessary to make it viable.

I show people who own iPhone X, iPhone XS, or iPhone XS Max how the flickering is occurring in slo-mo, expecting them to be shocked and frustrated, but their reaction is always the same: they trust that Apple would never use a technology that could harm them. One of my friends gets headaches from her phone, and I showed her what was happening... STILL, she defended her iPhone X.

It is so stupid how phones have become such a major part of our lives, and it annoys me that we have to put so much thought and effort into discussion around this because Apple clearly is NOT doing the right thing for their consumers.

Although very unlikely, maybe Apple was not aware of this issue. Maybe. But over the past two years, we all have written Apple and there are thousands of posts about the issue, so if the 2019 iPhones still use PWM, that means that Apple is purposely implementing a technology that mathematically makes them more money even though it is bad for their consumers.


PWM is fine, as long as the frequency is high enough. 240Hz is not.

But I agree with you, the current PWM and the off axis color shift make the technology look amateurish. Not to the perfectionist standards expected from Apple.

Sure the colors pop out more if you look at it at a perfect angle, but that’s all that is to OLED at the moment. I think Apple was fooled by Samsung marketing into being forced to enter the OLED game.
 
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PWM is fine, as long as the frequency is high enough. 240Hz is not.

But I agree with you, the current PWM and the off axis color swift make the technology look amateurish. Not to the perfectionist standards expected from Apple.

Sure the colors pop out more if you look at it at a perfect angle, but that’s all that is to OLED at the moment. I think Apple was fooled by Samsung marketing into being forced to enter the OLED game.

I am really not an OLED fan. Made me sick... Switched to Xr and going to stay with that.
 
I have now used my XR for a month and can happily report that it doesn't give me eye strain issues. It's not as good as my previous phone, but even with fairly heavy use it's not a problem at all.

I also haven't gotten eye strain from my S4 Apple Watch. I felt I little bit of stain the first couple of days where I spent a lot of time looking at it while setting it up and playing with it, but with quick glances throughout the day it's not an issue at all for me.
 
I have now used my XR for a month and can happily report that it doesn't give me eye strain issues. It's not as good as my previous phone, but even with fairly heavy use it's not a problem at all.

I also haven't gotten eye strain from my S4 Apple Watch. I felt I little bit of stain the first couple of days where I spent a lot of time looking at it while setting it up and playing with it, but with quick glances throughout the day it's not an issue at all for me.
What was your previous phone?
 
I have now used my XR for a month and can happily report that it doesn't give me eye strain issues. It's not as good as my previous phone, but even with fairly heavy use it's not a problem at all.

I also haven't gotten eye strain from my S4 Apple Watch. I felt I little bit of stain the first couple of days where I spent a lot of time looking at it while setting it up and playing with it, but with quick glances throughout the day it's not an issue at all for me.
What was your previous phone. If the XR isn’t as good, why did you upgrade.
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PWM is fine, as long as the frequency is high enough. 240Hz is not.

But I agree with you, the current PWM and the off axis color shift make the technology look amateurish. Not to the perfectionist standards expected from Apple.

Sure the colors pop out more if you look at it at a perfect angle, but that’s all that is to OLED at the moment. I think Apple was fooled by Samsung marketing into being forced to enter the OLED game.
They weren’t fooled. The S9 display is great without the issues I experienced on the xs max. Apple bungled the display because of their tunnel vision and worship of some unknown factor in manufacturing and marketing. The notch is a similar bonehead move.
 
What was your previous phone. If the XR isn’t as good, why did you upgrade.

Google Nexus 5X. I upgraded because it is 3 years old and was unbearably slow for the last year. It also doesn't receive security updates anymore as of this month. It was time basically.
 
Does anyone know in which way the PWM of the OLED is cause eye strain? I.e. scientific explanation.
 
My this thread keeps on going! Finally thrown in the towel and decided the OLED X series is not for me because of the eye strain and shoddy build/screen quality lottery. Also I don't like the lower resolution XR or its obvious bezel.

A work colleague has an XR so had some time with it. Not for me but he loves it. Also another guy has an XS and the bezel is sharp on back with a rainbow display when tilted! :confused: Are they drunk at Foxconn?

Getting my 7 plus battery replaced on Friday as current one is 87% capacity and doesn't get through the day (please don't mess it up "genius") and if Apple don't give us a 1080p LCD iphone in 2019 then this is my last iphone. Really, really, REALLY don't want to go to Android but gotta vote with my head (and eyes). :(

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iPhone XS is perfect in every way except one major issue...

I know I’m just complaining at this point. Anyone want to take any bets on if Apple will continue using PWM next year? It should be a “redesigned” model where this year was just an enhancement/speed bump year.
 
iPhone XS is perfect in every way except one major issue...

I know I’m just complaining at this point. Anyone want to take any bets on if Apple will continue using PWM next year? It should be a “redesigned” model where this year was just an enhancement/speed bump year.

If it's still OLED it will have PWM, unless someone has a technological breakthrough and manage to make PWM free and color accurate OLED displays for phones. It probably won't be much faster PWM either.
 
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