Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
First Look at the MacBook Air
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
I've asked a number of people: "Do you think Microsoft will be a dominant player in 25 years?" I'm a bit surprised by the fervent "YES" answers I get. Personally, I think Microsoft will slowly fade away, with Ballmer riding it into the ground. Windows will be made irrelevant, the new media will be pervasive and total as computing takes on new forms entirely.
Won't be too much longer the next genius (Einstein-like, not Apple genius ha ha) appears and propels computing into the next dimension, literally.
I can see people saying that the premium is due to how small it is.
Well first, it needs the 'fat' around the screen to be trimmed.
(This will give everyone the smaller foot print, or a larger monitor depending on which way they would go to knock off that extra space.)
But heres the deal.
When you take a macbook pro, rip out its insides and thus can naturally make it smaller - this does not warrant a premium in price. (i.e. costing about the same as the macbook pro, but it being gutted.)
Peace
dAlen
Well first, it needs the 'fat' around the screen to be trimmed.
(This will give everyone the smaller foot print, or a larger monitor depending on which way they would go to knock off that extra space.)
But heres the deal.
When you take a macbook pro, rip out its insides and thus can naturally make it smaller - this does not warrant a premium in price. (i.e. costing about the same as the macbook pro, but it being gutted.)
Peace
dAlen
Well, the only thing I can't live with is the 1.8" 4200 RPM drive. Seriously - those things are slower than heck. I had an IBM thinkpad tablet with such a disk and it drove me nuts.
The solid state version is insanely expensive - plus solid state disk have a rather limited life-time.
The solid state version is insanely expensive - plus solid state disk have a rather limited life-time.
I love your comment...
Personally I am sick and tired of comments about how you are paying $700 more for a machine with less horsepower, less features, no optical drive, etc, etc, while overlooking the better features of the MBA. These posters remind me of those who believe "magic is might". For many, it suits them just fine to do away with these things. It's not all about making the ultimate computer. Not every computer needs to satisfy your needs, nor does everyone else share your needs.
I am not going to say anything more until I have played with one at an Apple Store, or have at least seen some sort of benchmarking. I hope that most of you will try to do the same. Stop being power-computing Nazis. Progress != higher processing speed and greater storage space.
Also, the majority of women computer users are not so fixated on having the biggest most powerful penis-substitute for a computer as the guys are. I find that the number of guys on this forum who are loudly complaining about this laptop both before and after it was introduced, just boggles the mind.
The majority of them seem to start their argument with ...
"I usually run multiple copies of Aperture on my MacBook Pro and have half a terabyte of image files... "
or
"How am I supposed to compile my code while watching a DVD and encoding a video stream at the same time on this thing?"
Or some other oblique braggadocio about how powerful and fully spec-ed their MacBooks are and how they need even more!
Apparently if you are satisfied with your laptop and only use it for light office work or entertainment, you are not a "real" man.
Personally I am sick and tired of comments about how you are paying $700 more for a machine with less horsepower, less features, no optical drive, etc, etc, while overlooking the better features of the MBA. These posters remind me of those who believe "magic is might". For many, it suits them just fine to do away with these things. It's not all about making the ultimate computer. Not every computer needs to satisfy your needs, nor does everyone else share your needs.
I am not going to say anything more until I have played with one at an Apple Store, or have at least seen some sort of benchmarking. I hope that most of you will try to do the same. Stop being power-computing Nazis. Progress != higher processing speed and greater storage space.
I did know that the HFS+ filesystem can fragment but I was under the impression that since the system automatically pre-binds every time you install an app, major fragmentation would only occur when users copy and delete very large segments of data at one time which is the case with people who process a lot of video data.
As far as all the virus, spyware, etc. software is concerned. I don't worry about it much since I am behind 2 routers with firewalls and a software firewall at home.
As I stated in an earlier post, my computers are always under warranty because I sell them and get new ones every 2 or 3 years. Personally, I am very capable of troubleshooting my computer as I have been doing it since I had a Tandy running MS-Dos. Still, over the years I have started more and more letting the manufacturer deal with it because I would rather just send it in or drop it by the store and go on my day doing real work than spend hours troubleshooting something I may or may not be able to fix. As my pay grade goes up in the next few years, it will make less and less sense for me to actually troubleshoot my own systems as I can be using that time to make money at a greater rate than I can pay someone else to do it.
I never said I was going to get a Macbook Air, at least this year, just that it isn't crap. There is a market for it, even if it is a niche one. Sony and others have already been serving this market for years.
That's entirely possible, but it doesn't mean that Apple will ever be the new Microsoft. It presents a false dichotomy to insist that there needs to be a Windows-like heavyweight or that if Microsoft fails, that Apple will assume the role. That's even (incorrectly) assuming Apple would seek such a position.
It's 40% lighter (2.5 pounds), averages 50% thinner, and while only slightly smaller in footprint, it fits in just about every bag ever made, where 15" notebooks can be a tight or just-barely-impossible squeeze.
People pay for that. They pay quite a bit for it, in fact. Most people don't care or can't justify the price, which is why ultraportables are not the largest notebook segment, and why most people won't buy this.
It's the cutting edge of technology--making things faster or stronger is not nearly as difficult as making them smaller. Technology invented to this end has a massive trickle-down effect on the rest of the industry. Just look at the move from vacuum tubes to transistors, or hard drive evolution--even 3.5" desktop drives are downright minuscule next to their counterparts from 20 years ago. There's no real need for them to be; it's just part of the process.
That's because it is precisely about size and weight.
People make cinematic-quality 3D models on machines with less power. It's not a desktop replacement, but it'll handle just about anything you throw at it. It's hardly just 'text documents'.
Here is the point.
The cost.
Again, the macbook air is the cost of a macbook pro essentially.
You are buying a macbook pro that is gutted. (its all the same cost really.)
I respect this. you dont need the power. You need it light, I understand.
My point is not about forcing power on you, but showing you are getting ripped off in the price.
When someone guts the macbook pro, thus being able to thin it down, and makes you pay the same price - wouldnt you feel ripped off?
Personally I like the power, as its my desktop replacement.
I dont know how to be clearer. I think its a wonderful thing.
But the fact is, at the price point, its really a no go.
I cant believe that someone needs so desperately a text only computer for the same price that they can buy a computer that would let them do much more on. (Graphics, games, dvd, etc) Is it that necessary for a text only computer? It may be. But at that price point? I say get the iphone, and again type emails or whatever. Its light.
Seriously, I dont know how to be clearer. Its not arguing against such a machine...but at its price position. I will gut out a macbook pro, hammer it thin and sell it to you for the same price.
Peace
dAlen
It may be light but it's NOT an ultraportable and does not compete directly with the offerings from Sony, Toshiba or any other provider of an ultraportable. Firstly, it's footprint is HUGE. Apple was able to make it so thin because they could array the components on a generously sized motherboard. The MBA is still going to teeter on your airline tray table. Real, honest-to-God UP's start at 12 inch screens with a trimmed bezel down to ten inch screens. True UP's weigh 2 pounds or less (frequently only 1.5 pound). True ultraportables employ much more expensive ultra low voltage (ULV) cpu's that are hand picked from each production bin. They frequently cost 50% to twice as much as Standard low voltage CPU's several clocks higher in speed. The reason behind the ULV is to boost battery life. Notebooks in this category last at least six hours and many get eight. If past performance is any indication, the actual battery life of the MBA is not much more than 3.5 to 4 hours as Apple ALWAYS overstates battery. Their estimates are based on machines running idle with all networking turned off, the screen brightness dimmed to maximum and no programs running. Not particularly useful in my book. Also, many UP providers include an optical drive in the cost of the machine, have a full array or ports, or at the very least a full functional docking station (which I grant you is usually extra). Many have user servicable batteries as well.
The Oxford English Dictionary defines a niche player as " a specialized, restricted, but generally profitable corner of a larger market." At 4% market share worldwide, Apple is a niche player. I'm sure a lot of companies wish they could be Versace, Mercedes, Bang and Olafson, or any number of other high end but restricted market segments. I'll wager many more would rather be an IMB, Microsoft, Exxon, Wal-Mart or Consolidated Foods. The problem with niche markets is that they appeal to only small, and in Apple's case, vanishingly small segments of the overall relative market. All goes well so long as the company maintains its mystique, its bling factor. When that goes, so goes the company. I love Apple's products. I want then to be around for a long time. I am afraid that I see the company trending down the same path that it did in the late 80's. Don't know if your old enough to remember, but there was a very dark time at Apple in the mid nineties when the company came very close to going belly up. I don;t want to ever see that happen again. I feel much better if Apple got back to the business of building computers with broad commercial appeal with an intent to be a major supplier in addition to being a major designer. Sometimes, a company can get too far ahead of the curve and find itself come crashing down. The Tucker automobile, the Osbourne portable, the Segway, are all examples.
Ah but I am looking at it priced against other ultra-portables which makes it look like an OK deal. Against the MBP I can see your point but it isn't really competing against that. Someone looking for a desktop replacement would never consider a Macbook Air. I do agree that at $1400-$1500 it would be super attractive but compared to some of the other ultra-portable offerings on the market it isn't expensive.
I think it does compete against ultra-portables because IMO those 10" and 11" offerings are pretty unusable with their tiny keyboard and tiny screens for doing work on office documents. 12" is almost the same thing and really all you have to do is throw this thing in a neoprene sleeve and it will fit in 95% of people's bags out there.
I think it does compete against ultra-portables because IMO those 10" and 11" offerings are pretty unusable with their tiny keyboard and tiny screens for doing work on office documents. 12" is almost the same thing and really all you have to do is throw this thing in a neoprene sleeve and it will fit in 95% of people's bags out there.
Yes, there are the executives with a budget for this...not your common folks.
I agree that if you make things small, this is cutting edge.
But to gut a macbook pro and hammer it thinner isnt a feat.
Taking the macbook pro and making it small - yes, this is a feat.
As for 3D. 10+ years as a former art director in media and as a producer & director for video and new media, I can say if this is the only computer you have you will kill yourself trying to work with it.
Sorry, but it just wont cut it. I can make anything work...but to what degree where your not pulling your hair out.
Again, there are people who will buy it.
And I mentioned, I would buy one myself. But the price cannot be justified, again this is for me. I say get the iphone and use it as a text machine...or wait for this to become a real price.
Again, when you strip out so many features it would be sad if apple couldnt make it that thin...really its a joke.
Peace
dAlen
I think you raise a good point. There is no doubt third party developers will jump at the chance to offer peripherals for the MBA. I can envision USB to Firewire converters (but limited to only one device because of USB's limitations); specially designed USB hubs, batteries that plug into the magsafe port, blueray, dvd-ram and combo drives for the USB port, etc. The question is, how much extra are you going to feel like spending in order to recoup the absent functionality on a machine in the Pro price range. Also, will you be negating the weight savings by packing up and toting along the extras? Only time will tell.
Sony THIN Laptop vs Macbook AIR
Here's a good comparison for price point and specs. The latest Sony THIN Laptop vs Macbook AIR
Sony VGN-TZ298N/XC
Intel® Core 2 Duo Processor U7700 (1.33GHz, 2MB L2 Cache, 533MHz FSB)
11.1" LCD XBRITE-HiColor 1366x768 Resolution
1.3M camera
Bluetooth®
Hybrid 64GB Solid State Drive
Intel® Graphics Media Accelerator 950 Available Graphics Memory 256MB
Intel® PRO/Wireless 4965AGN Network Connection (802.11a/b/g/n)
4.5-9.0 hours Battery Life
fingerprint sensor
External 250GB hard drive
Sprint® Mobile Broadband Wireless WAN
External DVD±R/RW DL optical drive
1 port of each - VGA, Ethernet, Audio, Modem, iLink, Power, Card Readers. 2x USB
Weight 2.86Lbs
PRICE $3699.99
Macbook Air
Intel® Core 2 Duo Processor (1.8GHz, 4MB L2 Cache, 800MHz FSB)
13.3" LED Backlit Glossy Screen 1280x800 Resolution
Built in iSight Camera
Bluetooth®
64GB Solid State Drive
Intel GMA X3100 graphics processor with 144MB of DDR2 SDRAM
AirPort Extreme Wi-Fi wireless networking 802.11a/b/g/n compatible
5 Hours Battery Life
Backlit full keyboard
Weight 3.0Lbs
External Slot-loading 8x SuperDrive (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
1 port of each - USB, Power, Audio, Micro-DVI
PRICE $3098.00
So the Macbook Air is lacking ethernet, VGA, Modem, and card readers built into the laptop. Oh well, they can ALL be adapted through USB if needed at the time you need and what you need, just extra space IMO. The Sony does have a Sprint mobile card built in which is nice, but if needed you can buy a USB version for under $110. The External 250GB Hard drive and the Burner can be had for $250. So if we add those prices to the macbook Air we come to $3458.00 which is still about $350 CHEAPER than the competition. NOW... What you get that you won't get in the Sony. Larger 13.3" LED screen with the SAME weight as the 11.1" Sony. Backlit keyboard with ALS, Same Batt. Life, Slimmer design, and cheaper.
So WHY are people complaining about price and specs when they are obviously the same, cheaper, or you can add on through USB? Apple is about design and people will buy this for this purpose. The Business World will buy it, early adopters, and anyone needing an ultra-portable laptop(mainly people who TRAVEL a lot). Price is right and the product is availble for Pre-Order.
oh... BTW. You also get Mac OSX 10.5 Leopard, which is a better OS than Windows Vista OR XP!!!
Here's a good comparison for price point and specs. The latest Sony THIN Laptop vs Macbook AIR
Sony VGN-TZ298N/XC
Intel® Core 2 Duo Processor U7700 (1.33GHz, 2MB L2 Cache, 533MHz FSB)
11.1" LCD XBRITE-HiColor 1366x768 Resolution
1.3M camera
Bluetooth®
Hybrid 64GB Solid State Drive
Intel® Graphics Media Accelerator 950 Available Graphics Memory 256MB
Intel® PRO/Wireless 4965AGN Network Connection (802.11a/b/g/n)
4.5-9.0 hours Battery Life
fingerprint sensor
External 250GB hard drive
Sprint® Mobile Broadband Wireless WAN
External DVD±R/RW DL optical drive
1 port of each - VGA, Ethernet, Audio, Modem, iLink, Power, Card Readers. 2x USB
Weight 2.86Lbs
PRICE $3699.99
Macbook Air
Intel® Core 2 Duo Processor (1.8GHz, 4MB L2 Cache, 800MHz FSB)
13.3" LED Backlit Glossy Screen 1280x800 Resolution
Built in iSight Camera
Bluetooth®
64GB Solid State Drive
Intel GMA X3100 graphics processor with 144MB of DDR2 SDRAM
AirPort Extreme Wi-Fi wireless networking 802.11a/b/g/n compatible
5 Hours Battery Life
Backlit full keyboard
Weight 3.0Lbs
External Slot-loading 8x SuperDrive (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
1 port of each - USB, Power, Audio, Micro-DVI
PRICE $3098.00
So the Macbook Air is lacking ethernet, VGA, Modem, and card readers built into the laptop. Oh well, they can ALL be adapted through USB if needed at the time you need and what you need, just extra space IMO. The Sony does have a Sprint mobile card built in which is nice, but if needed you can buy a USB version for under $110. The External 250GB Hard drive and the Burner can be had for $250. So if we add those prices to the macbook Air we come to $3458.00 which is still about $350 CHEAPER than the competition. NOW... What you get that you won't get in the Sony. Larger 13.3" LED screen with the SAME weight as the 11.1" Sony. Backlit keyboard with ALS, Same Batt. Life, Slimmer design, and cheaper.
So WHY are people complaining about price and specs when they are obviously the same, cheaper, or you can add on through USB? Apple is about design and people will buy this for this purpose. The Business World will buy it, early adopters, and anyone needing an ultra-portable laptop(mainly people who TRAVEL a lot). Price is right and the product is availble for Pre-Order.
oh... BTW. You also get Mac OSX 10.5 Leopard, which is a better OS than Windows Vista OR XP!!!
I have to admit, I am waiting for a Macbook pro update.
Im on a G4 667mhz currently...
I was hoping that the air would be a suitable replacement (in the absence of macbook pro updates). Truth is, I suspect that they will come out in 2 weeks when the air ships. If they updated them now it would take away from the pre-orders of the airs for sure, and would also take away from them in the keynote address. (We know Intel has the chips ready for an update)
For those who argue its irrelevant, as people just want the thin laptop period...apple knows better. They know there is a group of people they can hoodwink into getting this, that would otherwise have gotten a macbook pro.
Seriously. For the die hards out there, they know you will get the thin book no matter what. So it is all about maximizing the potential profit from this announcement.
Anyway...it is nice, so if you can afford it, I hope you enjoy it...seriously.
Meantime, I hope those macbook pros get updated. (and are not plagued with the screen issues of yellow tinting which is new with the LEDs, and battery issues that have long haunted the macbooks and powerbooks.)
Peace
dAlen
In all, I'm underwhelmed. Actually, as with many, disappointed is probably a better word. On the other hand, I'm glad my SR Macbook hasn't been replaced with something "more shiny and more better."
If I was a frequent flier, I'd buy a one of these MBAs. Too bad it's that crummy aluminum color, though. I dislike the current Macbook Pro, iMac and now MBA shade. I suppose an alternative shade is difficult to pin down, but ugghh, it's a aversive color to me. If it could have been a wee less "magic alloy" colored ...
Now we know why Apple was buying up the 13" LED backlights. Not for my Macbook.
As for business, Apple has probably taken on a conservative approach to the next year; their current focus needs to be milking the iPhone and iTouch lines and continuing their competitiveness against the rest of the World's very capable, very rich cell phone manufacturers.
If I was a frequent flier, I'd buy a one of these MBAs. Too bad it's that crummy aluminum color, though. I dislike the current Macbook Pro, iMac and now MBA shade. I suppose an alternative shade is difficult to pin down, but ugghh, it's a aversive color to me. If it could have been a wee less "magic alloy" colored ...
Now we know why Apple was buying up the 13" LED backlights. Not for my Macbook.
As for business, Apple has probably taken on a conservative approach to the next year; their current focus needs to be milking the iPhone and iTouch lines and continuing their competitiveness against the rest of the World's very capable, very rich cell phone manufacturers.
goodness gracious
Lot's of negativity here! I'm not that surprised; I've lurked long enough to know that after the keynote we all complain and complain and then after it starts shipping and selling well we start saying how much we secretly always liked it.
It's beautiful and innovative. In my opinion there will be a big market for it. I travel a lot and am sick of arriving with a sore back because of my laptop, camera, accessories and papers. I'd love something small and light like this - that would compliment an iMac at home.
Mark my words: this will sell well and be the first in a long line of MB Airs...
Lot's of negativity here! I'm not that surprised; I've lurked long enough to know that after the keynote we all complain and complain and then after it starts shipping and selling well we start saying how much we secretly always liked it.
It's beautiful and innovative. In my opinion there will be a big market for it. I travel a lot and am sick of arriving with a sore back because of my laptop, camera, accessories and papers. I'd love something small and light like this - that would compliment an iMac at home.
Mark my words: this will sell well and be the first in a long line of MB Airs...
One optical drive to bind them all
I recall that your discussion started with your needs for an optical drive to troubleshoot the computer. You know what would be a great idea? Just get ONE optical drive for ALL of your computers, if that is the case. (If you want to watch DVDs on the go, too bad.) Face it, do you really need to get one more optical drive every time you buy a new computer? Right now, the SuperDrive can hardly become obsolete, specs-wise. And if/when BluRay or HD DVD (or holographic storage? Think Space Odyssey 3001) becomes mainstream, you won't have to rip out the optical drive from ALL of your computers. Just replace that ONE optical drive you have. At $99, the device is almost a bargain, but can only be used with a MBA. What I would do is to buy a $60 slim drive from NewEgg and grab an enclosure too for about $35. (USB2.0 enclosure)Problem solved! I believe that is the trend of the future and what Apple is trying to do - simplifying our lives by removing redundancy.
We used to own a portable, like 10 years ago, that tried to become portable by making the optical drive external, as manufacturers have been doing for many years. I used to hate that idea. But now that I think about it, what I really hated about it was that the external drive used this special connector which was not only thick, but also limited usage to that computer. These won't be as troublesome now that we use USB and Firewire.
I recall that your discussion started with your needs for an optical drive to troubleshoot the computer. You know what would be a great idea? Just get ONE optical drive for ALL of your computers, if that is the case. (If you want to watch DVDs on the go, too bad.) Face it, do you really need to get one more optical drive every time you buy a new computer? Right now, the SuperDrive can hardly become obsolete, specs-wise. And if/when BluRay or HD DVD (or holographic storage? Think Space Odyssey 3001) becomes mainstream, you won't have to rip out the optical drive from ALL of your computers. Just replace that ONE optical drive you have. At $99, the device is almost a bargain, but can only be used with a MBA. What I would do is to buy a $60 slim drive from NewEgg and grab an enclosure too for about $35. (USB2.0 enclosure)Problem solved! I believe that is the trend of the future and what Apple is trying to do - simplifying our lives by removing redundancy.
We used to own a portable, like 10 years ago, that tried to become portable by making the optical drive external, as manufacturers have been doing for many years. I used to hate that idea. But now that I think about it, what I really hated about it was that the external drive used this special connector which was not only thick, but also limited usage to that computer. These won't be as troublesome now that we use USB and Firewire.
First of all i dont think you realize just how complicated making a thin/small/sub notebook really is. If it was just about guttin the larger ones,
it would already been done way back.
I totally agree with you that i want power in my notebook aswell, thats why i want a full 17" maxed out. Im not gonna buy the Air.
Never the less, its pricepoint is not off, these computers are maid in much smaller batches, using uniqe hardware designfeatures, makeing the price per computer also higher from that viewpoint.
At the end of the day i really think you get what you pay for
Cheers!
Lot's of negativity here! I'm not that surprised; I've lurked long enough to know that after the keynote we all complain and complain and then after it starts shipping and selling well we start saying how much we secretly always liked it.
It's beautiful and innovative. In my opinion there will be a big market for it. I travel a lot and am sick of arriving with a sore back because of my laptop, camera, accessories and papers. I'd love something small and light like this - that would compliment an iMac at home.
Mark my words: this will sell well and be the first in a long line of MB Airs...
My thoughts exactly. People bitch, bitch and bloody well bitch about anything that gets released.
This is a gorgeous bit of kit - not cheap, but not exactly overpriced for what you get. Does it currently fit my needs for what I'd want in a laptop? No. I'll keep my iMac - but bloody hell that thing is pretty.
Please - stop the negativity people, it's getting boring now.
Why could you not boot over wifi?
I thought this was a new tech innovation feature in the new Air.
I think this is the result of a tight relationship with intel that makes wifi on the motherboard, and i guess you could incorporate the wifi drivers in the board, letting you boot from the wifi.
Any takes on this?
This is similar to what I was thinking during the keynote:
Time Capsule (a.k.a. - airport extreme) is a good idea.
I would not mind my Time Capsule box also being my iTV or aTV.
It has the harddrive in it now...one box to 'rule them all' and 'one box to bind them'. I like it.
Peace
dAlen
Yea!This is similar to what I was thinking during the keynote:
Time Capsule (a.k.a. - airport extreme) is a good idea.
I would not mind my Time Capsule box also being my iTV or aTV.
It has the harddrive in it now...one box to 'rule them all' and 'one box to bind them'. I like it.
Peace
dAlen
This i think would be an awesome combo!
I guess most ppl with a mediacenter at the tv have alot more storage than the iTV.
I was keen to buy this when it was a rumour but now I think I will wait for Rev B which I expect will be out before the years end.
Apple Australia charging well above the exchange rate and GST didn't help.
Wish it had FW400 port and audio in.
Wish they had also put a 32GB SSD option at a much more reasonable price.
Apple Australia charging well above the exchange rate and GST didn't help.
Wish it had FW400 port and audio in.
Wish they had also put a 32GB SSD option at a much more reasonable price.
This is quit funny i think, that ppl have been screaming that apple needs to press in the ssd in the notebooks or they will become obsolet (i have read cryes all fall). Its still too expensive, although i think we might see it in the mb pros this year
Does anybody know the read n write speeds in these disks?