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What a piece of junk! Looks like a $6 Radio Shack project box. I can't believe Netflix are in bed with these guys. And what's with no 802.11n? At least put in a USB port so we can add a Wi-Fi adapter. If I have to run ethernet to the living room, I might as well just watch it on the computer.

There's an Ethernet port there so you can use a simple Wifi-Ethernet bridge. They're often called Gamer Adapters. There are plenty around. Adding USB for the purposes of allowing people to add a Wifi adapter is somewhat more complex than you think - there's no standard for USB-Wifi - every adapter's chipset requires custom device drivers.

As far as the look goes, it's small and unobtrusive. I don't see an issue there.
 
Originally Posted by wordmunger
More than, say, a couple hundred rentals would be a good start. Most people over 35 don't collect TV episodes on their computers.

45 years old here, go very many TV Box sets from the 50-Today converted over to the ATV.

50 years here and I have SG1, SG-Atlantis, B5, Invader Zim, Farscape and a whole mess of other Sci-Fi TV ripped from my DVD library to my :apple:TV.
 
The most incompetent? Well, why don't you go and make your own and we'll call it competent. I think Blu-Ray is fantastic and a very nice media format, much more so than HD. Maybe you're thinking of the DRM, movies, encoding, etc., then that's another debate but there's nothing you'll tell me that'll lead me to believe that HD-DVD is "better" than Blu-Ray save for player inconsistencies (ie, profiles) which I will agree suck.

But, c'mon, give it up already. Blu-Ray is here to stay.

I'm glad you like Blu-ray, but I stand by my comment that it's incompetently designed. I didn't mention HD DVD, though HD DVD does lack some of BD's critical issues. Major issues include:

1. It's still exclusively hard media based, despite the world moving to Internet connectivity. There's nothing wrong with providing hard media as an option, but to use it exclusively, and to continue to make it difficult to centralize movie libraries in an age of massive mass storage is massively short sighted. It means virtually every downloads service, no matter how draconican and proprietary, has advantages strong enough to make Blu-ray's progress difficult.
2. Reliant upon blue-violet laser technology. There were alternatives such as multilevel encoding (not to be confused with multi-layer) and minor changes to aperture length that could have given roughly the same capacity per layer that BD and HD DVD gave us without drives costing any more than a standard DVD drive. Unfortunately both camps made their systems reliant upon a fairly expensive technology making it impossible to produce low cost players at any early stage.
3. BD+ - if you think the Profile1.0/1.1/2.0 issue is bad, BD+ is the underwater portion of the iceberg. BD+ is impossible to use in any practical way without guaranteeing unplayability on a wide proportion of players. The only way to be sure that BD+ is not going to prevent the main feature of a disc from playing on a valid, authorized, Blu-ray player is to test it on that player. Even with only a handful of players in existence, every single BD+ enabled title has failed to work on at least one valid, authorized, player. The studios don't care, they're continuing to use it anyway. And good luck getting a refund on the disc that doesn't work on your player.

In addition to the three above, I'd add that I've never liked Blu-ray's use of compulsory DRM (HD DVD and DVD at least made it optional), which means there'll never be cheap BD disks in the same way as there were DVDs (for older public domain content.)

These three issues, together with the consumer confusion and anger likely to result from the Profile madness, essentially render Blu-ray dead in the medium term. The fact it isn't an integrated standard able to pick up content from multiple sources means the system is largely obsolete. Issues 2 makes it expensive, and issue 3 makes it unreliable to the point that when the PS3 ceases to be the only BD player taken seriously, people are going to cease having faith in the format as virtually every release ends up causing problems for huge numbers of people unlucky enough to buy a copy.

Your AppleTV, and the Netflix box, "just work". DVD "just worked" too. HD DVD, bless it, "just worked". Blu-ray never will, because its designers are utter incompetents.

HD DVD... it was potentially half way there with point 1, but the manufacturers never bothered to implement the managed copy system so it never even got that far in practice. The issue with Blue-violet lasers also hampered its adoption. At least it didn't have BD+ however.
 
Stereo only -- no 5.1
No HD Content at all. 0.
No purchases at all. 0.
No new "blockbuster" movies, except through the normal DVD rental.
Picture quality: "not great, even at 2.2 Mbps"

Still, it beats driving to the nearest brick & mortar store.

I agree with you that those are all serious setbacks except for the NO PURCHASE. I for one dont want to buy digital movies. I am young and I still prefer buying a physical object.
 
Netflix user for 5 years

I have had Netflix since 2003 and the service has been poor on occasion with a few broken disc etc. This box would only be worth it if it was $50 or cheaper.
 
One other thing I wonder about: how does NetFlix expect to make money this way? If it really takes off and their selection becomes much better, people might start downgrading their accounts because they can get downloads for no extra charge. It might save on S&H costs for discs, but the infrastructure has got to be pretty amazing for this (the cost, that is). Plus, are the studios giving them these files for nothing? When they force Apple to charge so much?
I would imagine "latest releases" will be disc-only in the near future. In the longer term, I can imagine Netflix having plenty of opportunities to play with the model, providing SD and HD at different prices, and providing latest releases at a higher priced tier (or as PPV.)

They certainly are saving a huge amount on shipping and handling by doing this. Bandwidth is cheap. Storage is cheap. And there are no warehouses full of unwatched discs in this model, just a bank of high capacity disk drives. I can't see how this wouldn't be cheaper for them than the hard media route.

It just seems that this is a half-solution with lots of potential to flame out and, possibly, take the company down with them.

Not that I think iTunes rentals don't have their issues, but it's a business model that has a chance to make money. The only way I can see this making money for NetFlix is if it increases their subscriber base significantly. I'm not sure I see that happening, though. This might just be a desperate attempt to keep from losing business to the download market.

I think it's an attempt to use the Netflix model for the downloads market and to save a little money at the same time. In the longer term, I think Netflix's current model is more consumer friendly than Apple's and Microsoft's current model and I suspect both will switch to that. In the long term itself, I think the solution requires the studios and industry to develop a common standard for downloadable content. Some day I suspect we'll have moved from the 1980s "Watch latest releases at the cinema priced per person per viewing, watch other movies for $5 a tape per day, and buy tapes of movies we really love" to a "Watch latest releases on a PPV basis, watch recent releases on either a cheaper PPV basis or as part of a premium tier of subscriber programming, and watch everything else on a subscription basis." Imagine - your little ATV/XBox/Netflix thing having access to virtually every movie ever made, and you don't pay anything beyond a monthly fee to watch any of those movies.

All we need is to make sure George Lucas gets told that he's not allowed to withdraw old versions of his movies, and it'll be perfect.
 
Jobs has rejected subscriptions for music in the past, but it actually seems to me to be a good idea for movies. Pay $30 a month for access to a library far larger than anything you'd ever be able to build yourself. If Netflix can make the model work, and Apple/Microsoft/et al make the HD downloads work, then this could be what saves us all (industry included) from the horrors of Blu-ray, the most incompetent HD format ever devised.

EXACTLY! I would happily trash my cable box for this box if it did HD for 30 bucks or less a month. (720p) is good enough for me. Love my :apple:TV but I've ripped almost everything I own and for the price of owning two movies from iTunes i could be watching whatever I want. Wish they had Mac support for their internet viewable stuff....
 
Netflix Roku Box and the AppleTV

I checked my Netflix rental queue (293) vs. the Instant queue (15) and decided that at this time the box would be a waste of time for me. For me, the HD issue really isn't a problem nor are any audio issues. I just can't justify the cost for 15 items. On the other hand, for the purposes of watching episodic television, Netflix & my local library in combination with Handbrake and AppleTV works really well. So until Apple provides rentals or Netflix makes the majority of it's content "Instant" I will stick with the method I use now.

For demographic purposes, I am in my mid 40's, married with 2 little children
The majority of my viewing is about 90% television episodes and 10% movies. They all get erased once they are watched. I do have a collection of DVD's, but they are things that I knew I wanted when they were released.
 
I would imagine "latest releases" will be disc-only in the near future. In the longer term, I can imagine Netflix having plenty of opportunities to play with the model, providing SD and HD at different prices, and providing latest releases at a higher priced tier (or as PPV.)

They certainly are saving a huge amount on shipping and handling by doing this. Bandwidth is cheap. Storage is cheap. And there are no warehouses full of unwatched discs in this model, just a bank of high capacity disk drives. I can't see how this wouldn't be cheaper for them than the hard media route.

I agree. Yes people will lower their plans most likely which will cost them some gross. But I would imagine the cost savings of postage alone would counteract that. Plus this new model may attract more subscribers.

The problem with Day/Date releases is that Movie Studios have to appease Pay Per View Cable and Satellite and DVD rental stores as well as Apple and the new business models online. I just don't see it being a part of the "free" option. Especially considering that it would be difficult for studios to make money off of New Releases if a free option was introduced anywhere.

For the longest time Pay Per View wasn't even allowed to be within 30-60 days of DVD release dates because it hurt rentals/sales.

Back Catalog on the other hand...Rather than print up hundreds of thousands of discs that get returned to them when they don't sell etc...They could work up a plan to just get a percentage of Apple or XBox or whatever's a la carte plan. Less Money in pocket, Way Less money going out of pocket.

DVD/HD releases etc would be reserved for people who care about quality of image and extras.
 
I checked my Netflix rental queue (293) vs. the Instant queue (15) and decided that at this time the box would be a waste of time for me. For me, the HD issue really isn't a problem nor are any audio issues. I just can't justify the cost for 15 items. On the other hand, for the purposes of watching episodic television, Netflix & my local library in combination with Handbrake and AppleTV works really well. So until Apple provides rentals or Netflix makes the majority of it's content "Instant" I will stick with the method I use now.

For demographic purposes, I am in my mid 40's, married with 2 little children
The majority of my viewing is about 90% television episodes and 10% movies. They all get erased once they are watched. I do have a collection of DVD's, but they are things that I knew I wanted when they were released.

I have 408 in my que with 57 instant. Not a horrible ratio. Although I don't add TV Shows into my queue because I'd rather rent them at my video store and get all the discs at once. If I added them in it'd be closer to 30%.

I'm mid 30's with a kid. I don't have any kids stuff in my queue though. I would probably use this a lot for him.

Then again, if I browse JUST the instant stuff, I come up with all sorts of movies I'd like to watch. This blows Comcasts On Demand out the water and then some (I pay 13 bucks for their DVR and On Demand every month).

We need One Box to rule them all! Come on, someone's gotta due it.
 
I'd never get this box. I hate monthly payments to keep a service going. Hate it, hate it, hate it.
 
Apple is poised right now to put a real hurt on Netflix by doing the following:
- Increase watch time to 5-7 days instead of 24 hours.
- Offer a possible subscription model similar to Netflix for rented movies.

I would ditch Netflix in a heartbeat if these happened.

Agreed. Even better is to offer the option of subscription based or per title rental with NO limitation on days and let you have the choice of 3-5 movies checked out at a time. Meaning you pay a subscription like Netflix and can rent 3-5 for that fee, keep as long as you want, but have to delete 1 to get a new one in your que.

But for older titles, like what Netflix is offering give an all you can rent just like Netflix does now for on-demand.

Combine that model with a "buy" option for HD, new releases and other titles to own but tie it into your account ID you have now for iTunes and allow Apple TV to transfer that content between units so you can start watching on 1 (say downstairs) and finish it on another Apple TV (say in your bedroom). Plus add a 1TB hard drive to the unit and allow USB external drives (like the Airport or Time Capsule now) and you have a real winner starting to form.

Netflix is just starting with this device as there are others that are making a more high-end device coming late this year by LG and at least one other. Most likely it will have a hard drive built-in too. Bottom line is Apple needs to do something and do away with their absurd time limited rentals now and move to a subscription format soon.
 
I'd never get this box. I hate monthly payments to keep a service going. Hate it, hate it, hate it.
Since I was previously paying Comcast more than $100 a month for a hundred channels I rarely watched, my $24 Netflix fee seems like nothing. After cutting back Comcast to the bare minimum, with Netflix I have a lot of commercial-free content from which I can pick and choose and I save more than $60, compared to what I paid previously.

Everyone has to pay for some utilities; electric, water, sewer, internet, etc. I consider Netflix to be just one more. It's a reasonable fee for what I get, and there are cheaper plans too.

(I live in a rural area where I can't get over the air TV.)
 
Bottom line is Apple needs to do something and do away with their absurd time limited rentals now and move to a subscription format soon.
Yep, Apple's rentals seem to be overpriced and the 24 hour limit is absurd. But I doubt there's anything they can do about it, until the studios relax.
 
Although I don't add TV Shows into my queue because I'd rather rent them at my video store and get all the discs at once..

Actually, this is reason I got the AppleTV. My local library started restricting the length of time to keep dvd's to one week. When I got disc 4 of a show before disc 1 and I only had a week to keep it, it became impractical to use the service. With the AppleTV, I can collect them until I get the first of a series and then watch it. Now, with a lot of work and lots of storage, I now have over 200 episodes of things waiting to be watched. I don't care what order I get things now.
 
Once again this will all come down to user experience. Is the setup box elegant? Does it's menu system function well? Does it crash? These kinds of things are what sets apple products apart from the competetors who might look better on paper but who lack the design and implementation of a first class product.
 
Yep, Apple's rentals seem to be overpriced and the 24 hour limit is absurd. But I doubt there's anything they can do about it, until the studios relax.

They have already relaxed for Netflix, at least with the older content and TV shows. That would at least give Apple TV a little boost is if they did the same thing for older titles and all TV shows by allowing unlimited rentals/time on those titles then movie the "new" titles into that subscription plan after 6 months, 1 year, etc.

There are many ways Apple can at least implement some form of subscription model like Netflix does now. No matter what, the Netflix box is very appealing from that stand point of business model and what you get for the price of their subscription plan. Apple will need to do something before the end of Summer or this year for sure to stay in the game.

Don't forget, this is just the FIRST box offering that does Netflix with the LG box coming later this year. Also Blockbuster is rolling out their own version this year as well too. Apple must do something.
 
It would almost seem the movie studios are sticking Apple with unfair licensing terms to prevent them from becoming a market leader like has happened with music. Isn't there something illegal about that?

I'm all for Apple and the iTunes Store. I've spent a small fortune on music there. However, their current prices for both sales and rentals of video are not what I'd expect to pay. So I've passed on both the AppleTV and renting or buying any video content. (I have a Mac mini connected to my TV for EyeTV and such.)

IMO, iTunes TV shows for sale should cost about $1.25. Movies for sale should be about $6. Movie rentals should be about $2, whether HD or not. I guess that's all a dream but until it happens, I'll stick with Netflix.
 
From my experiences, Netflix streaming is very unreliable, especially on Friday and Saturday night. I've seen 3hr estimates to buffer a movie during peak hours. No thanks...I suspect Comcast might have something to do with my Netflix buffering issues as well.
 
The Main thing I use my ATV for is viewing my Own DVD-rips something I don't think this will allow you to do. Downloading a viewing movies is definate secondary, I could basically do what this doesby hooking my laptop to the TV.

If I already had a dvd, why would i need the apple tv or a netflix service for anyway? I would pop it into my up-converting PS3 blu-ray player and watch it in hi-def. How many times can u watch the same movie? I have a computer set up to my sony bravia HDTV and i use the netflix instant watch on it all the time. I have to say that the picture is better than regular broadcast tv. I was quite amazed at the video quality of 30 Rock season 1, Weeds Season 1 & 2 and Dexter Season 1. The $99 box is obviously for those who dont want a Windows PC (instant view requires IE7) connected to their Tv. IMO Netflix hit a home run with this service. The fact that Roku said the device is HD ready may indicate that Netflix is researching how to stream HD content.
 
From my experiences, Netflix streaming is very unreliable, especially on Friday and Saturday night. I've seen 3hr estimates to buffer a movie during peak hours. No thanks...I suspect Comcast might have something to do with my Netflix buffering issues as well.

I have Never had any trouble and I use netflix several times a week, specially on Sundays, I use Verison Fios Internet and everything starts playing 20-30 seconds after i click the Play button. It is either Comcast or your specific internet connection.
 
Actually, this is reason I got the AppleTV. My local library started restricting the length of time to keep dvd's to one week. When I got disc 4 of a show before disc 1 and I only had a week to keep it, it became impractical to use the service. With the AppleTV, I can collect them until I get the first of a series and then watch it. Now, with a lot of work and lots of storage, I now have over 200 episodes of things waiting to be watched. I don't care what order I get things now.

But aren't you paying an average of $1.99 per episode or are tv shows now free on apple? These are mostly free on television network sites/hulu and now netflix on demand.

My vid store has entire seasons of shows for around 3 bucks a week.
 
22 of my 236 movie cue.

About 10%.

Or course, I have pulled a lot out of my cue b/c I watch much more on Apple TV.

BZ
 
But aren't you paying an average of $1.99 per episode or are tv shows now free on apple? These are mostly free on television network sites/hulu and now netflix on demand.

My vid store has entire seasons of shows for around 3 bucks a week.

My local library is free. But because they don't carry everything or things get lost and never replaced, Netflix is my backup/alternate source. I am on the two at a time plan so it's around $3.50 a week. I don't have cable nor satellite, so that's my whole budgeted watching dollar. As an aside, this whole-watching-shows-on-the-computer thing sucks. There are too many sites, inconsistent content, and too many ads. A set-top box is the only thing I will use if I have a choice.
 
I'd never get this box. I hate monthly payments to keep a service going. Hate it, hate it, hate it.

I take it you don't have cable TV... or a phone line, or water/electricity.

The big deal for Netflix is that this is a stepping stone to bigger better things. From their website, they're working on integrating this technology into future models of TVs, so that a user could just pay the monthly fee and activate the feature on their TV.

I much prefer the monthly payments to Apple nickel and diming me for every show I want to watch. It's only $9, after all...
 
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