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Other First phone "ever"with 10 bit HDR DV @59Mbps 4.2.0... am I missing something?

UKapple73 said:
Ok, will it be HDR10 or do you lose all hdr data?
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It's not going to be HDR10 its going to be a flat looking HEVC file in rec2020 color space.

God knows what Apple will do here but their intention is clear, DolbyVision available only through device streaming not for distribution. Forget about uploading HDR video on YouTube unless they make a workaround to transcode into HLG on fly.
 
vladi said:
If you take out the file off your iPhone you will get a 10bit HEVC file without DV curve.
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How do you know? Did you test it with an actual iPhone 12? I guess not so please stop spreading misinformation.

Most likely iPhone 12 uses profile 5 Dolby Vision which is single layer whereas UHD BluRay discs with Dolby Vision are dual layer. The first layer is the 2160p HDR10 HEVC stream while the second layer is a 1080p Dolby Vision Enhancement Layer. There are two types of Enhancement Layers: Minimal (MEL) and Full (FEL). Dolby recommends FEL for 4000-nit mastering displays with lower peak luminance (say 1000-nit) content and MEL if they want to keep the base layer at 4000-nits. MEL only contains the dynamic metadata (and it's mostly below 100 kbit/sec bitrate and it's the same as profile 5 single layer) FEL on the other hand contains picture information separate from the base layer which affects the visual performance and it's able to recreate the 12-bit signal and regarding bandwidth it can go as high as 10-12 Mbit/sec.

So I think Dolby Vision content recorded with iPhone 12 can be exported (via MacOS Photos for example) as MP4 (mp4 supports single layer Dolby Vision while MKV doesn't) and can be played on a compatible TV as Dolby Vision. I wouldn't trust AirPlay as it reencodes and sends the reencoded video at a much lower bitrate than the original.
 
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high3r said:
How do you know? Did you test it with an actual iPhone 12? I guess not so please stop spreading misinformation.

Most likely iPhone 12 uses profile 5 Dolby Vision which is single layer whereas UHD BluRay discs with Dolby Vision are dual layer. The first layer is the 2160p HDR10 HEVC stream while the second layer is a 1080p Dolby Vision Enhancement Layer. There are two types of Enhancement Layers: Minimal (MEL) and Full (FEL). Dolby recommends FEL for 4000-nit mastering displays with lower peak luminance (say 1000-nit) content and MEL if they want to keep the base layer at 4000-nits. MEL only contains the dynamic metadata (and it's mostly below 100 kbit/sec bitrate and it's the same as profile 5 single layer) FEL on the other hand contains picture information separate from the base layer which affects the visual performance and it's able to recreate the 12-bit signal and regarding bandwidth it can go as high as 10-12 Mbit/sec.

So I think Dolby Vision content recorded with iPhone 12 can be exported (via MacOS Photos for example) as MP4 (mp4 supports single layer Dolby Vision while MKV doesn't) and can be played on a compatible TV as Dolby Vision. I wouldn't trust AirPlay as it reencodes and sends the reencoded video at a much lower bitrate than the original.
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Thanks, you obviously know your stuff on this, sounds like there is hope then. With current iPhone video I use a program on laptop that joins the files together to create say a 30 minute video. The DV metadata would probably not work with this as these programs wouldn’t recognise, so look like I would have to use an expensive video editing suite if I want to keep the DV metadata in any “joined” video
 
high3r said:
How do you know? Did you test it with an actual iPhone 12? I guess not so please stop spreading misinformation.

Most likely iPhone 12 uses profile 5 Dolby Vision which is single layer whereas UHD BluRay discs with Dolby Vision are dual layer. The first layer is the 2160p HDR10 HEVC stream while the second layer is a 1080p Dolby Vision Enhancement Layer. There are two types of Enhancement Layers: Minimal (MEL) and Full (FEL). Dolby recommends FEL for 4000-nit mastering displays with lower peak luminance (say 1000-nit) content and MEL if they want to keep the base layer at 4000-nits. MEL only contains the dynamic metadata (and it's mostly below 100 kbit/sec bitrate and it's the same as profile 5 single layer) FEL on the other hand contains picture information separate from the base layer which affects the visual performance and it's able to recreate the 12-bit signal and regarding bandwidth it can go as high as 10-12 Mbit/sec.

So I think Dolby Vision content recorded with iPhone 12 can be exported (via MacOS Photos for example) as MP4 (mp4 supports single layer Dolby Vision while MKV doesn't) and can be played on a compatible TV as Dolby Vision. I wouldn't trust AirPlay as it reencodes and sends the reencoded video at a much lower bitrate than the original.
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There is no misinformation and you don't need an iPhone 12. Dolby Vision is very much regulated workflow that is protected by IP and License Agreement. There are only three official ways to master and deliver Dolby Vision content and neither of them is in MP4 container. That's why I was hoping for ProRes recording cause one of the deliveries is ProRes together with XML file. The only container that packs the original HEVC and metadata is MXF. That data can be fed into .TS multiplexer file for streaming purposes. It can also be adjusted for HDR10/HLG/SDR stream if no Dolby Vision decoder is recognized.

It's really up to Apple to decide what's gonna happen in the workflow from shooting the video, grading the video and delivering it. It's also up to them what's gonna happen if you want to upload the video to YouTube, will they convert the graded video to HLG or VP9 HDR or SDR.
 
LonestarOne said:
And now you’re claiming that LG developed the camera software, too?
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Hi. I'll answer you in this way:
Do you think Samsung provides Apple also software drivers for the display?
LG Innotek does assembly, glass, micro adjustments when positioning the glass lenses, or plastic ones, calibrations, then puts a chip there, some software and also provides software libraries. Best example? Down here! Tell me if you see something familiar!
 
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I'm curious if the new 12 Promax has an Omnivision camera, or if it's also... that 64MP one, or maybe it's exactly the one in Xperia mark 2. But who assembles it? Who puts that chip, who makes the chip? That's what we'll find out in the coming months...
 
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It would be pretty stupid to implement DV recording as a feature if you couldn’t get the resulting footage off the phone intact. Anyway, they specifically said during the DV segment of the presentation that editing of the DV footage would be possible in FCPX with an upcoming update. Also, if you can’t get the DV file off the phone intact, how did they put together the DV edit that they showed during the keynote? Was the filmmaker standing there with his phone behind the set Airplaying the file to a projector? :rolleyes:
 
alFR said:
It would be pretty stupid to implement DV recording as a feature if you couldn’t get the resulting footage off the phone intact. Anyway, they specifically said during the DV segment of the presentation that editing of the DV footage would be possible in FCPX with an upcoming update. Also, if you can’t get the DV file off the phone intact, how did they put together the DV edit that they showed during the keynote? Was the filmmaker standing there with his phone behind the set Airplaying the file to a projector? :rolleyes:
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Well that DV edit is they showed was in SDR and the HDR clip they've uploaded to YouTube is HLG. But that's besides the point. You can deliver Dolby Vision anywhere, in browser, on live TV, Dolby Vision is super flexible.

Question here was what would happen if i dig on my iPhone and get the original 10bit video file, will it have Dolby Vision metadata in it. My answer still stands - no. Will you be able to grab separately both original 10bit video file and DV metadata? I don't know, maybe you could.

FCPX will edit Dolby Vision cause it will have same post workflow as on iPhone, it will have the same grading curve that it will reapply on original HEVC video. It will also most likely have some end to end pipeline transfer from iPhone to FCPX grabbing all the metadata in the process. Who knows. There are bunch of offline DV streaming .ts files on web you can download yourself and put it in Premiere to see what happens. TS file contains both original HEVC and DV metadata.
 
Hi, James Cameron here. I am going to shoot Avatar 2 with the iPhone 12 Pro Max. Since we now can do all editing on the iPhone, we will sell all of our Red camera's and servers so that we can make the movie tickets 50% cheaper. All thanks to the wonderful iPhone 12 Pro Max.
 
Ok, they're out. So the bitrate at 4k 60 is 440 MB for one minute, while others are doing 480MB. That's a 72 Mbps bitrate.
All samples of Dolby Vision are converted to HLG. What's next?
 
Coffee_Time said:
So... whats the catch with this 10 bit HDR and Dolby Vision? I tought Dolby Vision requires 12 bit HDR color depth ... read here https://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/hdr10-vs-dolby-vision
Also 10 bit 4K HDR cameras on phones are since 2016-2017 out there... https://www.cined.com/lgs-v30-smartphone-10-bit-color-lg-cine-log-video-in-a-phone/

Do we miss something about this new 10 bit HDR? Waiting for more infos from you guys...
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There are profile levels of Dolby Vision support on each platform. On the iPhone you can check out all the info here: https://developer.dolby.com/platforms/apple/ios/device-support/


If I’m not wrong, LCD iPhones use a dithering technique to work with Dolby Vision. It’s not a 100% native experience.
 
Coffee_Time said:
Ok, they're out. So the bitrate at 4k 60 is 440 MB for one minute, while others are doing 480MB. That's a 72 Mbps bitrate.
All samples of Dolby Vision are converted to HLG. What's next?
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Where are you getting this? This is a little bit higher than the 11 pros.

What do you mean by others?
 
Apple is not using stock sensors. They're buying sensors from Sony and LG, but these sensors are manufactured according to their specs. Similar to how the SoCs are manufactured by TSMC or how the Tesla FSD package is designed by Tesla and manufacturer by Samsung. Software is Apple.

tlnargi said:
Where are you getting this? This is a little bit higher than the 11 pros.

What do you mean by others?
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He's not getting it anywhere. Otherwise he would notice that these bitrates he's tossing around are using different codecs, which means you can not compare them quality wise except for required bandwidth.
 
It's in the iPhone 12 Pro menu... No words on DV yet...
Screenshot_20201020-202854.png
 
GrumpyCoder said:
Apple is not using stock sensors. They're buying sensors from Sony and LG, but these sensors are manufactured according to their specs. Similar to how the SoCs are manufactured by TSMC or how the Tesla FSD package is designed by Tesla and manufacturer by Samsung. Software is Apple.


He's not getting it anywhere. Otherwise he would notice that these bitrates he's tossing around are using different codecs, which means you can not compare them quality wise except for required bandwidth.
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I think it's working the other way. Sony and LG presents them the products, then they choose what to buy. It's exactly like with the screens. Maybe some sort of customisation.
 
Here is something interesting and maybe the secret with how they got those beautiful videos...
 
Strelok said:
Wouldn’t be an iPhone release without the local LG guy having to justify his purchase 😂
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I will buy the 12 pro max. Justify purchase... I'm rocking v50 with campfire Solaris IEM headphones, 1500 USD, without taxes... Now that's way more than any iPhone... 🤣
[automerge]1603216878[/automerge]
Ever!
[automerge]1603216909[/automerge]
Idk if I'm going to keep it... Though...
 
tlnargi said:
What’s the math to calculate the bitrates?
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Sorry, I've calculated wrong...
440:60 secs then multiply by 8
440:60=7.33
7.33x8= 58
So the same 55 Mbps bitrate as always in HEVC ...
Other phones have 80Mbps also in HEVC
So they are spitting 600MB per 1 minute....
 
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