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Flashing 5770 and 5870 for Mac Pro 2008 and later (EFI64 for now boys, sorry)

The Rominator said:
The drivers can be downloaded from Apple.

It is very easy to get these ROMs.

Cards need to be flashed in DOS, for time being.

From when you push power button to the desktop there is nothing on screen.

So no Grey boot screen.

Netkas used the EFI from iMac versions of these cards, so in all likelihood, the "real" EFI for these cards will be a better fit. (Unless they make it too big)

If you have two similar model displays with DVI, it is possible to get 5770 to show those EFI boot screens.

With 5870, it is also possible that this might work, I just need to drag the 3rd monitor back into office and test.

I would recommend the Sapphire 5770 I bought from Newegg, it is reference design. The XFX 5870 is one I got when the 5xxx series came out, nearly a year ago. (Price hasn't dropped, in fact I think it has gone up)
Click to expand...

Sounds good. So pretty much just flash the card and use the default apple drivers. The only problem that I see is not having any bootup screen until it hits the desktop. Is my understanding correct?
 
I guess the next big question is when will the ROM be released to test.
 
is it safe to use the two 6pins on the top left corner of the motherboard in my 2008 MP to power the 5870. where in europe do i buy an extra 6pin-6pin cable? every store i have checked only have 4pin-6pin and stuff like that :(
 
MacRoysan said:
Yes i do.

I Have a Sapphire ATI HD 5870 1GB Vapor-X.

And the oly differens is that i have a big fan in the middle and it`s a 4 pin PVM fan.

I do reccomend this one becouse i have newer had a more silent card.

Regards / MacRoysan :apple:
Click to expand...

Since you recommend this card does this mean you have flashed and tested it? In a thread such as this, it is best to only recommend cards that have been proven to work.


graln1k said:
Damn. The 5770 linked is sold out on Newegg. Should this one work as well?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102873&cm_re=5770-_-14-102-873-_-Product
Click to expand...

I'll give you a big tip here.....Newegg has wonderful image section for each card. Sometimes it isn't 100% accurate as the cards change, but it is what you have.

When choosing a card to flash, always best to compare PCB and stick with one that is closest to OEM Apple, or a previously flashed card.

So look closely at images, especially back as you will be able to see it and components. SImilar layout and components usually good. Completely different PCB and chips, not so good though sometimes they will be functionally equivalent.

AFAIK, I am still only one with these working so amount of past experience is just that, 1 of each card. If you are iffy on a card, be sure it has "STandard VGA return policy" as Newegg also has the "Replacement Only Return Policy" on cards they want to be rid of.


roblin said:
is it safe to use the two 6pins on the top left corner of the motherboard in my 2008 MP to power the 5870. where in europe do i buy an extra 6pin-6pin cable? every store i have checked only have 4pin-6pin and stuff like that :(
Click to expand...

In order to answer your question, I would need to exhume the horse and get out the whip.

Try doing a search for "power Cables" in this particular section of forum. Or look in the BIG 4870 thread.
 
Great. Thanks for all of your hard work. I was about to build a new gaming PC because I am pretty tired of the problems with the 8800 in my mac pro. This just saved me a ton of money.
 
I get 27seconds with the GTX 285 1GB for SmallLuxGPU Ultra. Considering this also does CUDA, that's a hard sell for the ATI 5870. Looks like the Fermi Quadro 4000 might be for me...
 
Recommendation ATI 5870

The Rominator said:
Since you recommend this card does this mean you have flashed and tested it? In a thread such as this, it is best to only recommend cards that have been proven to work.

No i have not flashed my card yet, becourse i do`nt have the right ROM.
But i have installed the latest files from iMac 6.4 and netcas ati init, and ewerything is working eccept for QE/CI and that includes sleep-Mode to!
So i am shure that when netcas or you have grabbed the ROM for Sapphire 5870 i will also have a complete funktionel system.

I do have a real Mac Pro 2008. :apple: :)





I'll give you a big tip here.....Newegg has wonderful image section for each card. Sometimes it isn't 100% accurate as the cards change, but it is what you have.

When choosing a card to flash, always best to compare PCB and stick with one that is closest to OEM Apple, or a previously flashed card.

So look closely at images, especially back as you will be able to see it and components. SImilar layout and components usually good. Completely different PCB and chips, not so good though sometimes they will be functionally equivalent.

AFAIK, I am still only one with these working so amount of past experience is just that, 1 of each card. If you are iffy on a card, be sure it has "STandard VGA return policy" as Newegg also has the "Replacement Only Return Policy" on cards they want to be rid of.




In order to answer your question, I would need to exhume the horse and get out the whip.

Try doing a search for "power Cables" in this particular section of forum. Or look in the BIG 4870 thread.
Click to expand...

Regards / MacRoysan
 
The Rominator said:
We don't know yet for a fact that the actual removable Mac Pro cards will be EFI-64.

The iMac cards are EFI64. It would make sense that Mac Pro cards are too, i'm afraid.

It would seem likely, but we won't know for sure until after the 9th when someone dumps a EFI 5770 or 5870 rom.
Click to expand...
It's possible that the iMac will be EFI (Apple developing the firmware, as the GPU is soldered to the board), and PCIe cards EBC (ODM'ed out to ATI).

Ultimately, we'll have to wait and see.

The Rominator said:
I am ignorant of most details on this stuff, but it is possible that by NOT being full 64 bit the EBC code doesn't allow complete access to all addresses. This could in theory limit the card in ways that would hamper all of this "GPU computing" stuff.
Click to expand...
Here's the basic differences between EFI and BIOS (not all apply in the case of graphics cards though):

  • Disk support The standard PC disk partition scheme uses a Master boot record (MBR), EFI adds support for a new partitioning scheme: GUID Partition Table (GPT). Another area that this addresses, is that MBR limits on the number and size of disk partitions (up to 4 partitions per disk, up to 2.2 TB per partition). GPT improves this substantially, as capacity jumps to 9.4 ZB. Nor is the filesystem fixed.
  • 32-bit/64-bit BIOS is limited to a 16-bit processor mode and 1 MB of addressable space due to the design being based on the IBM 5150 (Intel 16-bit 8088). In comparison, the U/EFI processor mode can be either 32-bit (x86-32) or 64-bit (x86-64 and Itanium). 64-bit U/EFI supports long mode which allows applications in the pre-boot execution environment to have direct access to all of the memory using 64-bit addressing (64-bit application/OS can access the 64-bit instructions and registers). That doesn't mean that the CPU actually supports 64bit Memory addresses though (physical). This isn't an issue ATM though, as 40bit memory address system = 1TB RAM limitation, 48bit = 256TB. It depends on the actual architecture of the CPU (or GPU, which is the case we're actually covering ATM). No graphics card comes close to that much memory on the board (IIRC, largest I've seen is 4GB on a professional card).
  • Services U/EFI defines two types of services: boot services and runtime services. Boot services include text and graphical console support on various devices, bus, block, and file services. Runtime services include services such as date, time, and NVRAM.
  • Protocols U/EFI defines protocols as set of software interfaces used for communication between two binary modules. All U/EFI drivers must provide services to others via protocols.
  • Device drivers In addition to standard architecture-specific device drivers, the EFI specification provides for a processor-independent device driver environment, called EFI Byte Code or EBC. System firmware is required by the UEFI specification to carry an interpreter for any EBC images that reside in or are loaded into the environment. In that sense, EBC is similar to Open Firmware. Some architecture-specific (non-EBC) EFI device driver types can have interfaces for use from the operating system. This allows the OS to rely on EFI for basic graphics and network support until OS specific drivers are loaded.
  • Boot manager An EFI boot manager is also used to select and load the operating system, removing the need for a dedicated boot loader mechanism (the OS boot loader is an EFI application).
  • EFI shell EFI supports a shell environment (GUI for adjusting settings). It's not usually used (only seen articles on an MSI prototype system that used the GUI for accessing settings; ~2008 IIRC).
  • Extensions Extensions to EFI can be loaded from virtually any non-volatile storage device attached to the computer. For example, an original equipment manufacturer (OEM) can distribute systems with an EFI partition on the hard drive, which would add additional functions to the standard EFI firmware stored on the motherboard’s ROM.

Hope this helps, not just cause more confusion. :eek: :D

Sources: EFI Wiki, UEFI Wiki, Intel EFI Specification Overview (too lazy to attempt to type it all; editing was faster :p). Other sources you might want to look into: EFI 1.10 Specification (download), and UEFI.org.

jeanlain said:
I don't think there is such limitation in EBC since PC cards use the good old BIOS (so do Mac Cards, right? EFI is merely for initializing).
Click to expand...
.
In terms of a graphics card, I don't see it as a limitation. The way I think of EBC in this case, is that it's essentially initialization layer, then loads the BIOS information (sort of emulation/translation). It saves on the work required to get it operational, as there's no absolute need to do EFI from the ground up, as the major differences don't matter in this instance (memory addressing in particular).

If you go back a bit, the HD3870 ATI released by ATI ran in both Mac Pro's and PC's (can be done with EBC).
 
I will argue on Disk support

bios doesnt give a **** about partition table type, it jsut loads first 512 bytes of disk and executes it.
 
MacRoysan said:
Regards / MacRoysan
Click to expand...

Since you will need to flash in DOS anyway, you might as well get it figured out and dump your current ROM.

Now that Mr. Amazing has done the heavy lifting, I can probably make a ROM for you with his Mac XFX 5870 rom as base I will replace my BIOS with yours and leave Netkas' EFI portion.

We need to get in habit of making 5870 ROMs as we did for 4870.

Fun, huh?

Another tip as we enter a round of DOS flashing. (until there is an ATI firmware update from where Cindori can yank a built flasher with 5xxx series support for Zeus)

You will make your lives MUCH easier if you remember a fundamental limitation of 16 bit DOS world, all file names are limited to 8 characters. If you name a rom as "Mac5870fromNetkas.rom" all you will see in DOS is "Mac587~1.rom" and that is how you will need to refer to it.

Easier if you just name everything with 8 characters and make it make sense to you, it will be better. SO when you dump rom from your PC 5870 name it "PC5870.rom" and then when it is "Mac-ified" with EFI, call it "Mac5870.rom".

If you end up trying different clock speeds you can then call them "mac58701.rom" and then "mac58702.rom", etc.
 
>Now that Mr. Amazing has done the heavy lifting, I can probably make a ROM for you with his Mac XFX 5870 rom as base I will replace my BIOS with yours and leave Netkas' EFI portion.

dont forget to edit last rom indicator in PC bios part, its PCIR offset + 0x16, change 0x80 to 0x00
 
netkas said:
I will argue on Disk support

bios doesnt give a **** about partition table type, it jsut loads first 512 bytes of disk and executes it.
Click to expand...
No, BIOS doesn't care about the type, just that there are limitations (4 partitions, with a 2.2TB limit per).

BIOS itself can't get past these limitations, and GPT was created specifically for that reason, and included as part of the EFI specification (then rolled into UEFI). But as they're different from each other, they're classified as different types to distinguish them.

Hope this clears things up a bit. :)
 
No, the limitation of 2Tb is for whole disk, and its coming from 32-bit nature of LBA in current bios calls, 2^32 * 512 = 2,2tb , 512 is size of logical block.

if they make 64-bit lba calls in bios, bios will support more than 32tb disks, or you can implement own ata driver in the booter and get past 2tb limitation

limitation for 4 partitions is not bios's , it's limitation of mbr partition table. nobody stops you from using gpt on bios system, as we do in our osx booters.
 
Apple iMac ROM

I'd like to take a look at the existing 2010 27" iMac ROM BIOS, both to help in this effort, as well as for research before the Apple 5770 and 5870 cards are released. I have looked extensively, both is this thread, and other places on the internet, to no avail. Can someone post it, or provide a link?

Thanks!
 
The Rominator said:
Since you will need to flash in DOS anyway, you might as well get it figured out and dump your current ROM.

Now that Mr. Amazing has done the heavy lifting, I can probably make a ROM for you with his Mac XFX 5870 rom as base I will replace my BIOS with yours and leave Netkas' EFI portion.

We need to get in habit of making 5870 ROMs as we did for 4870.

Fun, huh?

Another tip as we enter a round of DOS flashing. (until there is an ATI firmware update from where Cindori can yank a built flasher with 5xxx series support for Zeus)

You will make your lives MUCH easier if you remember a fundamental limitation of 16 bit DOS world, all file names are limited to 8 characters. If you name a rom as "Mac5870fromNetkas.rom" all you will see in DOS is "Mac587~1.rom" and that is how you will need to refer to it.

Easier if you just name everything with 8 characters and make it make sense to you, it will be better. SO when you dump rom from your PC 5870 name it "PC5870.rom" and then when it is "Mac-ified" with EFI, call it "Mac5870.rom".

If you end up trying different clock speeds you can then call them "mac58701.rom" and then "mac58702.rom", etc.
Click to expand...



Hi Rominator!

Thanks for your response! I would be very happy if you wanted to make a ROM for my ATI Sapphire HD 5870

Sincerely / MacRoysan :) :apple:
 
I have a 4890 right now. Do you think I would notice a big improvement going to a 5770 or should I just get a 5870. There is a pretty big price difference between the 5770 and the 5870.
 
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