Flip Flopping between macOS and Windows

[eltoslightfoot]

This (from 2013)?

MacBook Pro declared 'best-performing' Windows laptop

A PC services company placed Apple computers in the No. 1 and No. 6 slots as the best-performing Windows laptops.

www.cnet.com

or this (also 2013)?

The Best Laptop To Run Windows On Is A Mac

How crappy are Windows PCs these days? The most reliable, best performing, highly rated laptop for running Windows on is a frickin' Mac: specifically, a

www.cultofmac.com

That could be it! Hard to totally remember, but a lot of it had to do with the superior trackpad (at the time).

 

[WriteNow]

But I agree with you on Linux as well (and it was true even in the intel days)...

I wouldn't be surprised.

It just seems like the bulk of Linux on Intel talk I remember now is a situation of someone using Linux to get more use out of a Mac after Apple no longer supports it.

 

[WriteNow]

That could be it! Hard to totally remember, but a lot of it had to do with the superior trackpad (at the time).

I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't more than one entity saying the Mac was the best Windows machine.

And the trackpad would alone be a huge selling point for laptop users! I've noticed a lot of people with Windows laptops at the local library have a mouse. I can't remember seeing any Mac users with a mouse, although I imagine it probably does happen.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't more than one entity saying the Mac was the best Windows machine.

And the trackpad would alone be a huge selling point for laptop users! I've noticed a lot of people with Windows laptops at the local library have a mouse. I can't remember seeing any Mac users with a mouse, although I imagine it probably does happen.

To be fair, it's not really a thing now. Most Windows laptops all have great trackpads now, but it was a thing back then!

 

[fathergll]

This (from 2013)?

MacBook Pro declared 'best-performing' Windows laptop

A PC services company placed Apple computers in the No. 1 and No. 6 slots as the best-performing Windows laptops.

www.cnet.com

or this (also 2013)?

The Best Laptop To Run Windows On Is A Mac

How crappy are Windows PCs these days? The most reliable, best performing, highly rated laptop for running Windows on is a frickin' Mac: specifically, a

www.cultofmac.com

From the article;
"A main factor in this machine's metrics is the fact that every Windows installation on it is clean. With PC manufacturers loading so much crapware on new laptops, this is a bit of an unfair competition. But, on the other hand, PC makers should look at this data and aspire to ship PCs that perform just as well as a cleanly installed MacBook Pro."


That makes more sense than Apple having some magical properties to it.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

From the article;
"A main factor in this machine's metrics is the fact that every Windows installation on it is clean. With PC manufacturers loading so much crapware on new laptops, this is a bit of an unfair competition. But, on the other hand, PC makers should look at this data and aspire to ship PCs that perform just as well as a cleanly installed MacBook Pro."


That makes more sense than Apple having some magical properties to it.

Look I am as pro Windows as it get right now, but I am here to tell you. The unibody macbook was way ahead of its time. The glass trackpad was top notch and it had gestures before Windows even thought about it. Just shockingly good. It took PC makers a long time to catch up with better speakers, keyboards, etc.,

 

[bobcomer]

And the trackpad would alone be a huge selling point for laptop users! I've noticed a lot of people with Windows laptops at the local library have a mouse. I can't remember seeing any Mac users with a mouse, although I imagine it probably does happen.

When I had a Macbook pro (2017 version), I used a mouse. I hate all trackpads, even Apple's.

 

[maflynn]

I hate all trackpads, even Apple's.

Same, I avoid using the trackpad, so much to the point I bring a mouse with my laptop

 

[LeeW]

I've noticed a lot of people with Windows laptops at the local library have a mouse. I can't remember seeing any Mac users with a mouse,

I see the opposite, more people with a mouse than not. I think it has more to do with what you are used to than how good the trackpad is. I always use a mouse, I need what no trackpad can provide and a $5 mouse can.

 

[WriteNow]

Look I am as pro Windows as it get right now, but I am here to tell you. The unibody macbook was way ahead of its time. The glass trackpad was top notch and it had gestures before Windows even thought about it. Just shockingly good. It took PC makers a long time to catch up with better speakers, keyboards, etc.,

I have never a MacBook, but I remember my roommate getting one of the early (plastic) models. (Was it plastic? Or should we call it "precious resin" like an expensive fountain pen? LOL). So I had some familiarity. It was interesting wandering through the laptop sections of stores like Office Depot, and noticing how much better the MacBook was. Admittedly, I didn't see all the laptops imaginable. And if one was severely price sensitive, it was clear that you could buy "something" for a lot less--but you'd have to accept bad keyboards, bad screens, flimsy build quality, and--perhaps worst of all--Windows Vista. (Linux would have been an option, perhaps, but there would have been the problem of getting it working, which I think was somewhat a problem when it came to laptops from what I recall in that era.)

 

[WriteNow]

I hate all trackpads, even Apple's.

Same, I avoid using the trackpad, so much to the point I bring a mouse with my laptop

I always use a mouse, I need what no trackpad can provide and a $5 mouse can.

I've only lightly used laptops, and I've been a mouse user for more than 30 years. (That long? I suddenly feel old...) I'm not sure I like trackpads, but I can function with them. And I figure they have a convenience argument if one is using the computer as a portable device.

My bigger gripe historically with laptops was keyboard quality.

 

[WriteNow]

I think it has more to do with what you are used to

That does make a big difference.

 

[George Dawes]

Tbh the trackpad is what puts me off getting a laptop

I've tried using them and they're all just awful and feel so inaccurate compared to a mouse , like using your elbows instead of your fingers

 

[eltoslightfoot]

This is hilarious to me. I don't use trackpads while gaming or anything, but I have a Surface Pro 9 that I use as a companion device for work and I do my writing on it. All I use on it is the trackpad--except when inking of course. It works fine.

 

[fathergll]

Look I am as pro Windows as it get right now, but I am here to tell you. The unibody macbook was way ahead of its time. The glass trackpad was top notch and it had gestures before Windows even thought about it. Just shockingly good. It took PC makers a long time to catch up with better speakers, keyboards, etc.,

I'm not talking about things like the Macbook have superior trackpads...etc. To this day I like Macbooks over PC laptops.

I am simply stating running Windows via Bootcamp is not going to be more reliable than Windows being installed on PC hardware just based on 1.) Just logically it would not make sense for driver support for something like that to be great for obvious reasons like Apple would not put in serious R&D into Bootcamp or relying on volunteers like bootcampdrivers.com
2) The amount of various Bootcamp related driver issues I've seen pop up over the years In the past.

I've seen an absurd amount of people in the Mac world state this over the years. Everything from Bootcamp on Macbooks to iMac being this holy grail of Windows reliably which is not the case.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

I'm not talking about things like the Macbook have superior trackpads...etc. To this day I like Macbooks over PC laptops.

I am simply stating running Windows via Bootcamp is not going to be more reliable than Windows being installed on PC hardware just based on 1.) Just logically it would not make sense for driver support for something like that to be great for obvious reasons like Apple would not put in serious R&D into Bootcamp or relying on volunteers like bootcampdrivers.com
2) The amount of various Bootcamp related driver issues I've seen pop up over the years In the past.

I've seen an absurd amount of people in the Mac world state this over the years. Everything from Bootcamp on Macbooks to iMac being this holy grail of Windows reliably which is not the case.

I am not going to argue with what you are saying other than to say I used bootcamp extensively and never had a single issue. I had gestures working, GPU, everything just worked for me.

Also that said, I will admit that the timeframe for this was late aughts early tens. Let's say 2008 to about 2018 (with a 2014 MBP). I also would use parallels to boot the windows partition while in Mac...so again I am not arguing with you, I am just stating that I never had an issue.

And now the point is completely moot as the M series simply don't allow it. So....

 

[dandeco]

Yeah, I was having trouble running a Boot Camp partition on my MacBookPro11,4 alongside running Ventura via OCLP. So at work, we set up a Lenovo ThinkCentre tower for my Windows needs, and at home I am using a Dell Precision M6800 laptop alongside my Macs for when I need to use certain Windows applications, such as Speakonia or the Microsoft 3D Movie Maker or Wrapper/GoAnimate (a Mac version exists, but it's trickier to use).

Upgraded this baby with 32 GB of RAM and a 1 TB secondary SSD (in addition to the 256 GB mSATA system SSD).

 

[eltoslightfoot]

So a couple of weeks back, I purchased an Acer Predator Helios Neo 16" laptop refurbished from Acer Official on Ebay. Let's go apples to apples as much as possible.

It has an i7-13700HX processor, 16GB DDR5 RAM, 1 TB NVME SSD, RTX 4060 8 GB GPU, and a 16" 2560x1600 16:10 144Hz Screen. It was $999. I added an extra 1 TB SSD for $50 and 32 GB RAM would be around $70. So everything was $1120 for 32GB RAM and 2 TB total SSDs.

Here is the link to the listing on Ebay from Acer Official

An equivalent 14 inch MBP (16 inch wasn't available when I did this) with 32GB RAM and 2 TB SSD is $2969 from the Apple Refurbished Store. If you even go with 16GB RAM and 1 TB SSD for an equivalent 16", it's $2079.

14 inch MBP with 32GB RAM and 2TB SSD

16 inch MBP with 16GB RAM and 1TB SSD

Crazy how much I saved being able to upgrade myself. Apple needs to up their game. To be fair, The Acer is nice, but it is solid, heavy, and plastic. Also the battery life is about 5-6 hours with worse performance when unplugged. But when the Acer is plugged in? It's a beast with an i7-13700HX 16/24 cores and an RTX 4060 with 8GB RAM on the GPU.

It was also, depending on how you look at it, either $1840 or $959 (for 16GB/1TB) cheaper.

 

[decafjava]

Mac at home (in my sig, late 2015 iMac on Monterey) and got a new work laptop. Lenovo Thinkpad with Windows 11. I really like the hardware - though it only has 250 Gb storage (it's a work provided laptop so everything is on OneDrive and I am limited in what I can install but ok). I am pleasantly surprised by Windows 11 compared to 8.1 that my old (ie. museum piece) HP laptop was running before.

 

[Cape Dave]

Mac at home (in my sig, late 2015 iMac on Monterey) and got a new work laptop. Lenovo Thinkpad with Windows 11. I really like the hardware - though it only has 250 Gb storage (it's a work provided laptop so everything is on OneDrive and I am limited in what I can install but ok). I am pleasantly surprised by Windows 11 compared to 8.1 that my old (ie. museum piece) HP laptop was running before.

Yup, if Win 11 is looked at even moderately objectively, it really is good.

 

[dandeco]

Yup, if Win 11 is looked at even moderately objectively, it really is good.

Yep. It must be pretty good, given my college campus upgraded to it last summer for most of the campus PCs (mostly lab and library ones). They usually only upgrade when a good version of Windows comes out; the college continued using Windows XP until the summer of 2010 when they upgraded to Windows 7, and they stuck with Windows 7 until summer 2016 when they upgraded to Windows 10. And my local library recently upgraded to Windows 11 as well, and we often use it at my workplace.
I honestly feel that aside from some visual changes and that TPM requirement, Windows 11 isn't that much different from Windows 10.

 

[Frankied22]

Mac at home (in my sig, late 2015 iMac on Monterey) and got a new work laptop. Lenovo Thinkpad with Windows 11. I really like the hardware - though it only has 250 Gb storage (it's a work provided laptop so everything is on OneDrive and I am limited in what I can install but ok). I am pleasantly surprised by Windows 11 compared to 8.1 that my old (ie. museum piece) HP laptop was running before.

I primarily use Win 11 now instead of my MBP. I find windows is now way snappier and faster than macOS, and it gets out of my way. Not to mention you can run basically anything on it. I like the design language microsoft is using now too in their newer programs.

 

[laserfan]

... I honestly feel that aside from some visual changes and that TPM requirement, Windows 11 isn't that much different from Windows 10.

I've been led to believe that there is a workaround for the TPM requirement and thus W11 can be run on older PCs.

 

[dandeco]

I've been led to believe that there is a workaround for the TPM requirement and thus W11 can be run on older PCs.

Yep, that's what I did to get it running on my Dell Precision M6800. An open-source utility that lets you load a Windows 11 ISO into it so you can upgrade your Windows 10 system.

 

[LeeW]

Anyone see anything worthwhile at the event last night? Actually so uninterested in apple devices right now I didn’t watch the event.