Flip Flopping between macOS and Windows

[pshufd]

I'm getting the bug to do a new build but parts prices are just crazy high compared to pre-pandemic. Performance upgrades would be huge though. I was thinking 14500-14700, keep the 1660 and I'd need a motherboard, RAM and Gen 5 SSDs. I don't think that any of this stuff is cheap these days. This setup would replace my Mac Studio. The main benefits would be in the performance of one program that I use and it would mean better NAS performance and not having to run from an external enclosure. The downside would be power consumption. It might be better to go with a 14900 for the additional efficiency cores.

My practice is to always get the non-K CPUs as I don't need sustained multicore performance. I'd probably need a new PSU too as my current is 550 watts. I wanted a 750 but they were out of 750s and 650s when I ordered and 550 were fine back then for the components I chose.

 

[salamanderjuice]

I'm getting the bug to do a new build but parts prices are just crazy high compared to pre-pandemic. Performance upgrades would be huge though. I was thinking 14500-14700, keep the 1660 and I'd need a motherboard, RAM and Gen 5 SSDs. I don't think that any of this stuff is cheap these days. This setup would replace my Mac Studio. The main benefits would be in the performance of one program that I use and it would mean better NAS performance and not having to run from an external enclosure. The downside would be power consumption. It might be better to go with a 14900 for the additional efficiency cores.

My practice is to always get the non-K CPUs as I don't need sustained multicore performance. I'd probably need a new PSU too as my current is 550 watts. I wanted a 750 but they were out of 750s and 650s when I ordered and 550 were fine back then for the components I chose.

Do you REALLY need Gen 5 SSDs? That seems like a really easy place to keep using whatever you already had unless it's a HDD. DirectStorage, which isn't really used in many titles yet doesn't even benefit from a Gen 5 SSD, and only requires Gen 3 which are dirt cheap along with 4.0 drives.

 

[pshufd]

Do you REALLY need Gen 5 SSDs? That seems like a really easy place to keep using whatever you already had unless it's a HDD. DirectStorage, which isn't really used in many titles yet doesn't even benefit from a Gen 5 SSD, and only requires Gen 3 which are dirt cheap along with 4.0 drives.

No. But why not? It's $80 more on a 4 TB drive. My current drives are 1 and 2 TB and I'd love to go up to 8.

 

[GrandCiel]

I'm getting the bug to do a new build but parts prices are just crazy high compared to pre-pandemic. Performance upgrades would be huge though. I was thinking 14500-14700, keep the 1660 and I'd need a motherboard, RAM and Gen 5 SSDs. I don't think that any of this stuff is cheap these days. This setup would replace my Mac Studio. The main benefits would be in the performance of one program that I use and it would mean better NAS performance and not having to run from an external enclosure. The downside would be power consumption. It might be better to go with a 14900 for the additional efficiency cores.

My practice is to always get the non-K CPUs as I don't need sustained multicore performance. I'd probably need a new PSU too as my current is 550 watts. I wanted a 750 but they were out of 750s and 650s when I ordered and 550 were fine back then for the components I chose.

What motherboard are you looking at that supports multiple M.2 Gen 5 NVMe SSD’s? My ASUS Z790 series motherboard has five M.2 slots but only one supports Gen 5. I leave that empty anyway because it shares lanes with PCIEX16(G5) that I use for a GPU. I did install multiple Samsung 4TB 990 PRO PCIe 4.0 x4 M.2 SSD’s.

M.2_1 shares bandwidth with PCIEX16(G5)_2. When M.2_1 is enabled, PCIEX16(G5)_2 will be disabled and PCIEX16(G5)_1 will run x8 only.

 

[pshufd]

What motherboard are you looking at that supports multiple M.2 Gen 5 NVMe SSD’s? My ASUS Z790 series motherboard has five M.2 slots but only one supports Gen 5. I leave that empty anyway because it shares lanes with PCIEX16(G5) that I use for a GPU. I did install multiple Samsung 4TB 990 PRO PCIe 4.0 x4 M.2 SSD’s.

M.2_1 shares bandwidth with PCIEX16(G5)_2. When M.2_1 is enabled, PCIEX16(G5)_2 will be disabled and PCIEX16(G5)_1 will run x8 only.

I haven't looked at motherboards yet. I saw the prices and stopped looking. I'm a bit surprised that you only get one of them.

 

[GrandCiel]

I haven't looked at motherboards yet. I saw the prices and stopped looking. I'm a bit surprised that you only get one of them.

I'm not aware of any Z790 motherboards from any manufacturer that supports more than one Gen 5 M.2 slot and they all share bandwidth. I was only interested in 14th generation i9 motherboards and didn't check any i7 based boards though.

Intel Z790 Motherboards with PCIe Gen5 M.2 Support (2024) | GPCB

Note: Updated in February 2024 with Z790 boards that have been refreshed or released since the article was…

www.gamingpcbuilder.com

 

[MacFoxG4]

I feel myself flipping even more into Windows. I have a couple games in my Steam library that don't play nice with integrated graphics, so I bought an old Dell Optiplex that came with a low end GPU and it's been great to use. It's 6th gen Intel, so I had to use Rufus to get it to run Windows 11, but the Optiplex runs it well. Unfortunately, I bent the CPU socket pins on the motherboard in a botched attempt at upgrading the CPU, so I now have to wait until the replacement motherboard comes in before I can use my "new" gaming PC again. My ThinkPad T480s handles my daily driver tasks/whatever games it can handle.

There is still one Mac that I use for a particular daily driver duty that my Windows machines aren't good at. My MBP 2012 is where I manage my music library as the Windows versions of iTunes and the Music app are garbage. I had to downgrade from patched Sonoma to Mojave for stability reasons (MBP was freezing upon waking up from sleep under Sonoma). So far, Mojave's iTunes can still communicate with the iTunes Store. I don't really buy things from the iTunes Store anymore, but unlike with my music, I don't have all my movies and TV show purchases on my Mac, so I need to be able to uncloud those purchases as needed. I tend to use other digital stores/leaning more into physical media (and making rips of the disc when I need a digital copy) these days when purchasing new media. In some cases, I repurchased some of the TV shows in my iTunes on library on DVD. As long as I continue to be an iPod user, I will need to have a Mac around for syncing.

 

[seggy]

I'm getting the bug to do a new build but parts prices are just crazy high compared to pre-pandemic. Performance upgrades would be huge though. I was thinking 14500-14700, keep the 1660 and I'd need a motherboard, RAM and Gen 5 SSDs. I don't think that any of this stuff is cheap these days. This setup would replace my Mac Studio. The main benefits would be in the performance of one program that I use and it would mean better NAS performance and not having to run from an external enclosure. The downside would be power consumption. It might be better to go with a 14900 for the additional efficiency cores.

My practice is to always get the non-K CPUs as I don't need sustained multicore performance. I'd probably need a new PSU too as my current is 550 watts. I wanted a 750 but they were out of 750s and 650s when I ordered and 550 were fine back then for the components I chose.

Currently there's no really good reason to build Intels. They flirted briefly with being competitive with the 12th gen and it's been downhill ever since.

 

[pshufd]

Currently there's no really good reason to build Intels. They flirted briefly with being competitive with the 12th gen and it's been downhill ever since.

I really like the 14900HX laptop that our son bought which is what has me interested. It is possible that upgrading from an i7-10700 to an i9-11900K would get me halfway there for far less expense as 11th gen CPUs are pretty cheap today. It almost feels like it would be less effort to just get a 14900HX laptop than it would be to rebuild my desktop.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

I really like the 14900HX laptop that our son bought which is what has me interested. It is possible that upgrading from an i7-10700 to an i9-11900K would get me halfway there for far less expense as 11th gen CPUs are pretty cheap today. It almost feels like it would be less effort to just get a 14900HX laptop than it would be to rebuild my desktop.

If you are going there, might as well see if you can get a bargain on the 13th gen. There is little to no difference between the 13th and 14th generations.

 

[diamond.g]

Why not get a 265K with a Z890 board that should support more than 1 M.2 Gen5 slots?
And you get Thunderbolt 5 support...

 

[pshufd]

Why not get a 265K with a Z890 board that should support more than 1 M.2 Gen5 slots?

I actually only started hearing about the 265K this weekend and it appears to be the 15th generation chips so I have looked a bit into it. It may be an option but it looks like it's a pretty early product and I'd like to see what the reviewers say and if any problems arise. At the moment, an 11700 wouldn't be a bad upgrade.

 

[diamond.g]

I actually only started hearing about the 265K this weekend and it appears to be the 15th generation chips so I have looked a bit into it. It may be an option but it looks like it's a pretty early product and I'd like to see what the reviewers say and if any problems arise. At the moment, an 11700 wouldn't be a bad upgrade.

For gaming 15th Gen isn't great, but for productivity it is the bees knees.

 

[pshufd]

For gaming 15th Gen isn't great, but for productivity it is the bees knees.

It sounds good. I'll take some time and wait for a few other folks to do a build (unless you guys are going all AMD), and see what folks say. I'll keep my eye out on my favorite reviewers too.

 

[seggy]

For gaming 15th Gen isn't great, but for productivity it is the bees knees.

I'm not so sure about even that.
15th gen is definitely a work in progress and you should really think about buying said work in progress for the long run. What AMD is doing now is ahead and also mature.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

I'm not so sure about even that.
15th gen is definitely a work in progress and you should really think about buying said work in progress for the long run. What AMD is doing now is ahead and also mature.

I can't believe that Intel is a serious option for anyone at this point. Maybe once the parts are sold to other companies...

 

[seggy]

I can't believe that Intel is a serious option for anyone at this point. Maybe once the parts are sold to other companies...

16th/17th might actually work out - what they're laying down is the groundwork for actually competitive chips.

But it's a matter of whether there is time for Intel to get through this. They may regain competitiveness in the x86 space, but as we know that's a further shrinking market. And they have basically no ARM presence.

But who knows, the Trump admin might buy Intel further breathing room not through tarriffs but by actively helping the company in the way China does their key businesses. I really doubt breaking them up into fab/fabless is going to help in the long term.

 

[Altis]

I have settled on a pretty nice combination that seems to work well for me. I really don't like the direction that Microsoft has taken windows. I LOVE the hardware vendors and their creativity--not too mention RAM and SSD pricing, but I can't stand the OS and its overall direction. And it isn't just AI. It started when they fired all their quality control staff like a decade ago.

At this point I am probably going to get my wife a Studio or maybe even a Mini (professional photographer) and switch her from her custom AMD PC when it dies.

So, M4 Mac mini (16/512) for everything but remoting into work and gaming), Acer Predator Helios Neo 16" 17-13700HX RTX 4060 32/2TB (for remoting into work and gaming), M1 1Pad Pro 12.9", iPhone 15 Plus.
The baby monitor on the left is a $60 cheapy off Amazon - I'll upgrade eventually, I have a KVM to switch between my mini and laptop, and the main monitor is an Acer Predator XB273K 27" 4k Gaming Monitor (160Hz).

Same sentiments here regarding the direction of Windows -- I've preferred Windows for quite a while but W11 doesn't appeal to me, while macOS is actually improving in ways I found it deficient. If they could just improve Finder now I'd be happy enough.

The real question is how you like that Alice layout keyboard. The split layouts always appealed to me except the 'B' is on the wrong side for me, while Alice gives it on both sides. I've always felt that the entire center column should be repeated on each side so there's zero adjustment to the split.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

Same sentiments here regarding the direction of Windows -- I've preferred Windows for quite a while but W11 doesn't appeal to me, while macOS is actually improving in ways I found it deficient. If they could just improve Finder now I'd be happy enough.

The real question is how you like that Alice layout keyboard. The split layouts always appealed to me except the 'B' is on the wrong side for me, while Alice gives it on both sides. I've always felt that the entire center column should be repeated on each side so there's zero adjustment to the split.

I absolutely love my ALICE keyboard. In fact, I immediately bought another one for my office. (Keychron K15 Pro...)

And the B thing was funny. I didn't notice it until much later, and it made for the best dad joke with my kids. I told them I could remap the one I don't use (right hand). So that begs the question, "2 B or not 2 B."

Anyway, I totally agree on Windows 11. I wouldn't have even bought the M4 Mac mini, but Windows is so bad now. Bad on privacy, etc., I don't care about Copilot, and would happily pay yearly for Windows and Office without telemetry or AI. But instead MS announces that Office doesn't even exist anymore. Instead it is Microsoft 365 with Copilot. Ugg.

So here I am stuck using both Mac and Windows. So what is it you don't like about Finder? I have honestly used Finder for like 2 decades at this point, so I am just used to it...

 

[eltoslightfoot]

16th/17th might actually work out - what they're laying down is the groundwork for actually competitive chips.

But it's a matter of whether there is time for Intel to get through this. They may regain competitiveness in the x86 space, but as we know that's a further shrinking market. And they have basically no ARM presence.

But who knows, the Trump admin might buy Intel further breathing room not through tarriffs but by actively helping the company in the way China does their key businesses. I really doubt breaking them up into fab/fabless is going to help in the long term.

Yeah I mean there is definitely a huge need for domestic chip production, so I am hoping Intel gets its act together.

 

[seggy]

I absolutely love my ALICE keyboard. In fact, I immediately bought another one for my office. (Keychron K15 Pro...)

And the B thing was funny. I didn't notice it until much later, and it made for the best dad joke with my kids. I told them I could remap the one I don't use (right hand). So that begs the question, "2 B or not 2 B."

Anyway, I totally agree on Windows 11. I wouldn't have even bought the M4 Mac mini, but Windows is so bad now. Bad on privacy, etc., I don't care about Copilot, and would happily pay yearly for Windows and Office without telemetry or AI. But instead MS announces that Office doesn't even exist anymore. Instead it is Microsoft 365 with Copilot. Ugg.

So here I am stuck using both Mac and Windows. So what is it you don't like about Finder? I have honestly used Finder for like 2 decades at this point, so I am just used to it...

Its fine, as long as you're almost $100 into third party utilities to make it remotely usable...

As it stands, I have no idea where to even begin. It's SO bad, especially when you factor in networking. But given the W11 sitch which I agree with for slightly different reasons as someone who actually knows both OS's well, I've increased my Mac stash for this year and that may well continue further into even work, despite the Finder / etc issues.

There is frustration on both sides, but I'm starting to increasingly feel the frustration may be more circumventable on Macs by throwing money at it.

I do have my doubts about ALICE boards - I semi-feel it might be the usual mech community FOTM gone mainstream - and it's ergonomic to many because it *looks* ergonomic. A similar potentially likewise example: the pile of turd that is the H-M Embody. But I'll pass ultimate judgement on ALICE after more use.

 

[salamanderjuice]

Same sentiments here regarding the direction of Windows -- I've preferred Windows for quite a while but W11 doesn't appeal to me, while macOS is actually improving in ways I found it deficient. If they could just improve Finder now I'd be happy enough.

The real question is how you like that Alice layout keyboard. The split layouts always appealed to me except the 'B' is on the wrong side for me, while Alice gives it on both sides. I've always felt that the entire center column should be repeated on each side so there's zero adjustment to the split.

You just need to learn to touch type properly. Do that and it won't be a problem anymore. The dumb column stagger most keyboards use is the problem and the reason for the confusion. It's completely useless these days as it was meant to provide space for the typewriter bars. Wish Apple or Microsoft would have the courage to ditch it, but alas they can't make money selling some new doohickey so...

 

[pshufd]

But instead MS announces that Office doesn't even exist anymore. Instead it is Microsoft 365 with Copilot. Ugg.

I didn't know that. I had heard some complaints about Office on Reddit recently and I didn't understand what it meant.

Our son absolutely loves Copilot for work. I'm happy to let Google do it for me. I've disabled Apple Intelligence where possible on my Apple devices. It seems like it's just gathering data right now.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

I didn't know that. I had heard some complaints about Office on Reddit recently and I didn't understand what it meant.

Our son absolutely loves Copilot for work. I'm happy to let Google do it for me. I've disabled Apple Intelligence where possible on my Apple devices. It seems like it's just gathering data right now.

My frustration isn’t necessarily with Copilot. It’s the absolute desire to destroy everything to stuff it into every part of the OS. Apple is taking a much better approach. A person is free to install and use AI on their own. We don’t need it integrated into every part of the OS and Office.

And also, that is the best part of Apple Intelligence. It will get better and better, but either way, I can simply disable it (which I do).

 

[pshufd]

My frustration isn’t necessarily with Copilot. It’s the absolute desire to destroy everything to stuff it into every part of the OS. Apple is taking a much better approach. A person is free to install and use AI on their own. We don’t need it integrated into every part of the OS and Office.

And also, that is the best part of Apple Intelligence. It will get better and better, but either way, I can simply disable it (which I do).

His use is strictly web-based and he's careful about his questions as even asking questions on a search site can result in data collection on what you or your firm is working on. He has a Mac for work so I don't think that there's any copilot stuff running on his system gathering data. I'd be annoyed if that's what Windows is doing.

I have a look at AMD UHD laptops this morning and the 370 H seems like an excellent chip for laptops. One thing that I noticed while looking at them is that AMD CPUs tend to be used in cheaper laptops so that it's a bit harder to find high-spec stuff. The other thing is that there aren't a lot of high-end options on Lunar Lake.

I'll have to take a look at AMD builds. I'm not crazy about it as it means a lot of investigation on their chips and motherboards and I'm really only familiar with Intel.