Forbes goes in hard with damming review on M1 Pro

[adrianlondon]

Thanks Forbes, for attempting to keep the resale value of my early 2020 Air from diving.

 

[Joe Dohn]

This forum is hardly an echo chamber. Literally 95% of the discussions are users helping each other with bugs and most of them understand that software development is really hard and will never be perfect. So no, I don’t buy this idea that there is some brainless cult who jump thoughtlessly to defend these products.

You are mistaken to think that echo chambers are necessarily defined when users are toxic towards one another.

An echo chamber is when Internet users with similar opinions gather. This happens all the time in Facebook, YouTube, forums, and so on. This is due to the filtering effects of computers combined to the "tribalization" phenomenon: we humans think of each other as being in small communities, and people and groups that threaten that social stability are usually threatened and removed.

In other words, echo chambers happen when those opinions / social stability is no longer challenged at all, because there's some social stability towards a certain standard.

Notice this is not something intrinsic to MacRumors, but to our own human behavior.

 

[thettareddast]

Forbes and other such news sites that allow any random contributor have decayed to such a point that all they care about is click bait and ad revenue. This pay per view and pay per click ad revenue system has turned much of journalism (and politics) into a mud slinging cesspool of junk news and fake news. We see society being torn apart just so journos and writers can roll in money and laugh at you all. Do it Gandhi style. Don’t take part. Try your best to get direct feedback from regular hard working people.

yes. huffo, businessinsider, forbes, etc.... for the love of god stop sharing this trash across the internet

 

[ArPe]

You are mistaken to think that echo chambers are necessarily defined when users are toxic towards one another.

An echo chamber is when Internet users with similar opinions gather. This happens all the time in Facebook, YouTube, forums, and so on. This is due to the filtering effects of computers combined to the "tribalization" phenomenon: we humans think of each other as being in small communities, and people and groups that threaten that social stability are usually threatened and removed.

In other words, echo chambers happen when those opinions / social stability is no longer challenged at all, because there's some social stability towards a certain standard.

Notice this is not something intrinsic to MacRumors, but to our own human behavior.

Many differences of opinion on here. The difference is that if you add an emoji or two then people respect those differences ?? <— see

?

 

[Gnattu]

I think the biggest problem with fan sites and communities is that they create an echo chamber of positive opinions, and this has the potential to drive any brand to the abyss.

Here's the problem: because people in fan communities tend to only talk positively of brand products, the brand will not easily see what's wrong with their own products, thinking that everything is all right when it's not.

The M1 Mac does have flaws. Remember, it's an M1 generation product to begin with. Many programs will simply not work out of the box. There is no good alternative for virtualization yet. You can run 32-bit and 64-bit Windows apps with Crossover, but you have no good alternative for 32-bit MacOS apps. Apple has discontinued support for external GPUs.

Those are flaws that Apple must be aware of and address if they want a larger userbase (and they do). For example, Crossover has proved that legacy compatility at a reasonable speed CAN be attained, and it doesn't have to be integrated into the operating system. It can be developed and sold as a separate component. If Crossover can create separate software to run legacy software, so can Apple.

Also, another flaw of communities is that they lead to the thinking that everyone that doesn't like a brand's products is misguided, wrong, or flat out dishonest, which is not true. There are perfectly valid reasons not to like a product even if it's well-designed for its purpose.

32-bit compatibility is removed for Intel Macs as well. Apple just *no longer wants you to* use 32-bit apps, they have no intention to support that and they don't care people who need them, so they won't make that compatibility layer.

Virtualization IS supported on Apple Silicon, and you can use it now if you know how to use the framework provided in macOS. Apple has a lower lever Hypervisor framework provided in macOS 10.10+, and a high level Virtualization framework provided in macOS 11+. Both framework supports both Apple Silicon and Intel:

The Hypervisor framework requires hardware support to virtualize hardware resources. On Apple silicon, that includes the Virtualization Extensions. On Intel-based Mac computers, the framework supports machines with an Intel VT-x feature set that includes Extended Page Tables (EPT) and Unrestricted Mode.

The Virtualization framework provides high-level APIs for creating and managing virtual machines on Apple silicon and Intel-based Mac computers.

I even managed using a small program to launch a Linux virtual machine using Virtualization framework(on Intel though, I'm still waiting for my M1 Mac). The problem here is that popular Virtualization Software, like VMware and Parallel, has not ready yet, but the support is there. If you want to use windows, you need to wait for Microsoft to provide a Rosetta-like translation layer in Windows. They already have one, but that is 32-bit only, but they promised to provide a 64-bit version.

I agree with you that lots should wait for software to be ready, and I totally agree people can just don't like something. However, I don't think too much "personal opinion" in a product review is professional for a “1#-ranked tech analyst”.

 

[badsimian]

Edge is a good browser - basically Chrome without the data slurping. MS will release a proper Apple silicon version soon anyway. I use it myself for work stuff compartmentalised into various Edge user profiles. Safari for home stuff and then Firefox for home tech server bits. Different browsers different uses.

 

[acidfast7_redux]

That author is doing something wrong with Zoom. Im looking at around 8h of Zoom calls with the built-in webcam.

Sounds like an issue of the external webcam.

Not sure why anyone uses an external webcam. If the UK, most people on the news simply use Apple webcams.

No need really.

 

[Tuscape]

I think he has a point in that these machines aren’t for everyone. Hell, my work MBP could use a replacement (original touch bar late 2016) as the battery it shot and hearing the glue pops but im holding on until there’s a more appropriate solution for that workflow. And that will be one with more ports, at least docker running arm images very well, and Java vms and tools at least back to Java 8.
I did grab a mini for personal use, but I realize there are going to be some sharp edges (lack of iscsi being the sharpest so far and canon’s dpp doesn’t see the files on the smb share) but I won’t believe anyone else’s take that macos and tooling are good enough to be my daily driver without seeing it myself.
if your entire workflow is ms-centric and a lot of peripherals, the m1 portables may not be for you yet. But I’m really enjoying mine.

 

[tdar]

And, disregarding his ranting Microsoft Edge works perfectly under Big Sur, on M1 through Rosetta 2 at least on SharePoint and Microsofts Office online applications including Teams with screen sharing etc during calls.

Yes. This reviewer is an uninformed user.
Edge works perfectly fine for any website.
There are native versions of the office Apps and Teams works great.

 

[ArPe]

That author is doing something wrong with Zoom.

Am glad to know this isn’t a review by Jeffrey Toobin.

 

[tdar]

I found the most hilarious part to be about Tomb Raider making use of "Apple's proprietary Metal API instead of an open one", you know, like every DirectX game in existance. ?‍♂️

Metal is not a “ proprietary api” Hence Metal for windows. Yes that’s a thing.

 

[satchmo]

I haven't read the article, but it sounds like someone who doesn't embrace change very well.
Or have the vision or courage to see where things are going.
And you wonder why the PC market has been stagnant for the past decade.

 

[AndyMacAndMic]

I haven't read the article, but it sounds like someone who doesn't embrace change very well.
Or have the vision or courage to see where things are going.
And you wonder why the PC market has been stagnant for the past decade.

Maybe you should read the article first before posting an opinion about an article you did not read

 

[Joe Dohn]

Metal is not a “ proprietary api” Hence Metal for windows. Yes that’s a thing.

Actually, Metal on Windows is only available for cross-compiling. You can't actually use it.

 

[acidfast7_redux]

I'm also stunned that anyone reads Forbes any longer.

 

[Apple_Robert]

Forbes = supermarket tabloid journalism.

 

[alien3dx]

I haven't read the article, but it sounds like someone who doesn't embrace change very well.
Or have the vision or courage to see where things are going.
And you wonder why the PC market has been stagnant for the past decade.

i wouldnt said stagnent . the real improvement is AMD . they introduce amd 64 extension which then used by intel . real intel 64 is itanium.By default apple is stagnent by limiting port . The latest ryzen 3500 u d15 i used not perfect but it quite cool to put in lap.

Amd and intel also push graphic card and cpu in one chip https://www.engadget.com/2017-11-06-intel-core-h-8th-gen.html

Apple may fame their old user but for me i used various of laptop brand , server brand and also workstation. I would said a lot of improvement in hardware development

 

[dogslobber]

Seems a pretty balanced expose. It's backed up by factual example and it's also not a flag waver review. The bravado of reviews this past week has ranged from pasting Apple Marketing material to almost but not quite criticizing. If you give Apple a bad review then you'll be off the honor role for early access to new hardware. Unfortunately for Apple their inability to make sites like Anandtech reprint marketing material is one of the few outlets unbiased buyers have for more balanced reviews. This review is another.

 

[laptech]

The author of the article writes a very balanced view of the M1. Many in the comments section I am assuming have not read the complete article because if they did, they would realise and understand that the author is talking about the M1 macbook PRO, PRO being aimed at professional users and as such, using the keynote speech as a basis for the claims about how good the M1 is going to be both on performance and combability, he put the machine through a real world test (5 days of usage), a test that in my opinion any professional user would do and the machine came up short in a number of areas of which he reported about.

As the days progress, this forum is starting to see a slow influx of threads from M1 owners saying 'I cannot do this', or 'this does not work'. This is what happens when a brand new machine is put through real world tests and not just 'short review or benchmark' tests.

 

[raccoontail]

Seems a pretty balanced expose. It's backed up by factual example and it's also not a flag waver review. The bravado of reviews this past week has ranged from pasting Apple Marketing material to almost but not quite criticizing.

The review made me think through some valid points that are worth considering before jumping in to an M1:

• Users of apps that run on Rosetta2 won't see the killer battery life or performance (yet). These aren't just MSFT apps but tools many developers use like PHPStorm and Photoshop. Some workflow critical apps like Docker and expensive peripherals (I have an old but handy ScanSnap) may not work at all.
• Users who occasionally need windows are obviously out of luck. I need windows about an hour a week. Clients still love to send me their legacy MS Access databases, and I always test things on IE & Edge. Parallels has been a great solution for this. If Microsoft doesn't decide to license ARM windows for use on mac (and I think they will) an occasionally used remote desktop would probably be enough for my needs, but for now I'll just keep my intel mac.
• Port selection and multi-monitor support is a real issue. I'd hate to buy an M1 now and have a macbook pro that supports 3 external displays come out in 6 months...
• Running iOS apps without a touchscreen IS weird. Just connect your Magic Trackpad to your iPad and try it if you don't believe me... I'm hoping Apple Silicone finally means macbooks will soon get a touchscreen and the touchbar goes the way of the QuickTake, Newton, and UniDisk.

 

[bunnspecial]

Sounds like an issue of the external webcam.

Not sure why anyone uses an external webcam. If the UK, most people on the news simply use Apple webcams.

I have a bunch of colleagues who use document cams with Zoom. It's a very effective way to lecture on certain topics-they write on the paper under the cam much as they would on a board.

I went the route of using a graphics tablet combined with the Whiteboard in Zoom. It works for me, but isn't perfect either and more than once I've wanted to ditch it for a document camera.

 

[raknor]

Forbes being negative about Apple! No, you don’t say!

I really think he didn’t update to 11.0.1 which was available day one. 11.0 was buggy on the M1 and I can see how he collected so many crash screen shots. Most reviewers updated to 11.0.1.

That said most of the review is typical Forbes drivel. They don’t even bother to hide the bias. WTF does Apple-Chosen press mean? There are tones of videos on YouTube by people that bought the systems and were equally awestruck by the M1 systems.

 

[Herrpod]

#1 tech analyst sounds a lot like the Chinese takeout place near me that calls itself #1 China!!! I don't think either have been certified.

 

[PeterJP]

The author basically confirms why I ordered my mini M1. To test whether the mac will work for users who are on, or behind the curve of tech adoption. It's all nice and well that the machine works great when you know what you're doing. But what if somebody without any tech knowledge tries to install things they download, like Premiere or (from the article) Acrobat? I'll be my own judge, of course, but I'm not surprised to see a mainstream non-tech magazine reach other conclusions than a cutting edge website like Ars.

 

[Hoo Doo Dude]

I'm sure the Forbes reviewer will be much happier returning to his Windows XP system.