Imagine if Apple gave an M4 Ultra single core boost of something ridiculous like 100w. Maybe we'll have 4.6k GB6 ST score.
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Found M4 and M5 Mac identifiers
- Thread starter Jamie I
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Probably also have thermal issues. That die is huge and the heat is irregularly distributed.
Given today's rumours can we now revise this list of guesses with:
Mac16,1 => 14" M4 MacBook Pro (confirmed??!)
and extrapolate
Mac16,2 => 14" M4 Pro MacBook Pro
Mac16,3 => 14" M4 Max MacBook Pro
Mac16,5 => 16" M4 Pro MacBook Pro
Mac16,6 => 16" M4 Max MacBook Pro
Which leaves 7 name tags for Mac Mini and iMac(s)
Mac16,7 => Mac Mini M4
Mac16,8 => Mac Mini M4 Pro
Mac16,9 => Mac Mini M4 Max (yes, controversial)
Mac16,10 => iMac 24" M4 (it has never had anything but basic M class)
Mac16,11 => iMac 27->32" M4
Mac16,12 => iMac 27->32" Pro M4
Mac16,13 => iMac 27->32" Max M4
M5 Macs (mid-end of 2025)
Mac17,1 => Studio M5 Max
Mac17,2 => Studio M5 Ultra
Think you are dreaming. All of that seems like fantasyland
Where is the MacBook Air?
There is no large iMac coming this year.
No way the either the new or old Mac mini chassis can accommodate a Max chip
The there won’t be M5max or M5ultra chips before a plain M5, and even if there was-no way Apple would waste them in a studio
Still expected M4Max and M4Ultra Studio
Where are the Mac Pro update(s).
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There's guesses and there's educated guesses. At the end of the day these are all just guesses but I enjoy seeing these theories/guesses of mine, and others, supported or shot down with data, references etc. Rather than just "shut up, I know better".
Before you replied did you do your research?
Did you look at the release date of the current MacBook Air M3 or did you just shoot from the hip on all of that?
Mac Pro is dead. That's my guess.
M4 will never see the inside of a Studio. That's also my guess based on the M17,1 & 2 strings.
Why not a 12” MacBook Air with a Quad M5 Extreme and a couple of TB of RAM? It is just as likely 🤣
While I disagree with most of his predictions (his list leaves off the Air and the large iMac is said to be a ways off), I agree with him that the M17,1 & 2 being a reference to the M5 Studios is plausible - I won't say "likely" simply because we have too little to go on and there are too many possible combinations. The M13,1 & 2 were Studios (though those IDs change every generation so it's not terribly significant) and Gurman has predicted that the Studio is to launch next summer with a desktop specific die "Hidra" and that the Mac Pro isn't to be released well into the end of the year so it wouldn't be on the list at all or depending on how the Hidra die is structured (if it exists) then there might only be one ID for the Studio and one for the Pro*. Reports are that N3P is available right about now or at least very soon for volume manufacturing (2H 2024) and Apple is said to want to use these next chips, be they M4 or M5, both for itself and its customer base. So the timing could work from the manufacturing and use case - especially if Apple is planning on say significant GPU upgrades to support great on device matMul for Apple Intelligence in the M5 generation. Then it makes a lot of sense to manufacture those first for themselves and so the customers get it as a byproduct of that.
Now again, this is not necessarily the most likely scenario, but it also isn't completely dismissible. Bottom line: Gurman has to be wrong somewhere if the list is accurate and complete (well complete-ish we know that there will be more than 2 M5s after all!) - either the M4 isn't coming to the Air, the Studio, the Pro or some combination unless Apple has condensed its ID lineup (I can see them removing the two port iMac ID but that's not enough so at least the Mac Pro as well isn't represented to fit the two Airs in the M4). The October/November event should give us more info, particularly which models correspond to which IDs, but it doesn't look like the Studio or Pro are coming anytime soon unless Apple has kept them very, very secret. Basically by next Spring, around March, we should have a pretty good idea if Apple has released all the M4s and if those included the Air or not.
*both possibilities leave a potential gap in the M4 part of the list which I would fill in with an additional mini or 24" iMac device as it is rumored that the former is getting a complete rework (so more device IDs are possible depending on what Apple does here) and it is possible that the Pro chip could also find its way to the 24" iMac as the M3 Pro at least was very efficient compared to the M2 Pro and the redesigned mini is said to be quite a bit smaller and the M4 Pro is presumably still going into it. Thus thermally it doesn't seem to be out of the question. Again, not necessarily the most likely possibility, but not implausible either.
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But who needs an M4 Max Mac mini having the studio with a much better cooling, needed for that beefy GPU?
M4 Pro Mac mini looks like the sweet spot for those looking for higher than average power while keeping a compact form factor. Especially, if it starts with 24/32GB of RAM and 1TB of storage.
To be fair. If I am going to be critical of your guess, I should be will to put up my own WAG as an alternative. So here is my wooden nickels worth:
Mac16,1 => 14" M4 MacBook Pro (confirmed??!)
and extrapolate
Mac16,2 => 14" M4 Pro MacBook Pro
Mac16,3 => 14" M4 Max MacBook Pro
Mac16,5 => 16" M4 Pro MacBook Pro
Mac16,6 => 16" M4 Max MacBook Pro
Which leaves 7 name tags for everything else
Mac16,7 => Mac Mini M4
Mac16,8 => Mac Mini M4 Pro
Mac16,9 =>
Mac16,10 => iMac 24" M4
Mac16,11 =>
Mac16,12 =>
Mac16,13 =>
Mac17,1 =>
Mac17,2 =>
Basically, I'm just guessing that there is something to the previous Hydra chip rumor. I new high end processing chip. That will only be updated every few years. So Apple will give machines that use this new Hydra chip their own designation (Mac17,X).
Well done Chuckeee, you're the only one to actually have a go which is what I hoped others would do.
A lot of talk but no one else giving their predictions.
I can't see the MacBook Air getting an update only 200 days after it's last update.
Yes it has enjoyed an update for every iteration of the M series but less than a year old?
If I'd bought an Air back in March and saw it getting an update before xmas I'd be really pissed.
Hidra is the spelling Gurman used; I think Hidra will be a desktop-only variant on the Max chip...
One Hidra for a desktop Max, two for a desktop Ultra, and four for a desktop Extreme...
Mac17,1 = M5 Ultra/Extreme Mac Pro Tower
Mac17,2 = M5 Extreme Mac Pro Cube
;^p
You know one of the interesting things about the Hidra rumor is that back in the Mac Pro release of 2022 a whole bunch of leaks came out, from apparently multiple sources, about how not to expect multi-die chips from Apple for the next few generations of chips. That said, the name Hidra is certainly evocative of a multi-die chip isn't it? I mean it would be weird to call a die Hidra and then have it only be able to combine once to make two "heads". Of course these names are often pointless, what does Donan vs Brava tell you about the die? So maybe it's nothing. But it certainly doesn't sound like nothing in this case.
Of course that doesn't mean a multi-die solution needs be as extreme as the old rumored Extreme - like the equivalent of 4 M3 Maxes would've had 48 P-Cores, 16 E-cores, and 160 GPU cores. If the high end desktop chip are using their own bespoke dies then you can imagine all sorts of combinations. For instance, instead of assuming that the Hidra die can exist on their own, let's assume the minimum number of die is 2. You could then make an individual Hidra die small and cheap to produce (even if you increase clocks relative to the laptop-focused chip) with say 8 P-cores and 3 E-cores and 32 GPU cores. The full chip of 4 such die would have 32 P-cores, 12 E-cores, and 128 GPU cores - still a pretty big monster! An individual die could be binned with say 6 P-cores and 24 GPU cores such that the 4 die chip would have 24 P-cores, 12 E-cores, and 96 GPU cores. A desktop "Max" equivalent could be two die with 12/6/48 cores on the low end to 16/6/64 cores on the high end.
Speculation is fun!
If it gets updated in the spring with an M4, it would be a year. It doesn't have to be updated in the fall to be M4 - same as the M3 generation where MacBook Pros were released in the falls, the Airs were released in the Spring (and the 15" was only roughly 270 days old, though I don't think they'll be repeating that).
My version
:Mac16,1 => 14" M4 MacBook Pro (confirmed??!)
and extrapolate
Mac16,2 => 14" M4 Pro MacBook Pro
Mac16,3 => 14" M4 Max MacBook Pro
Mac16,5 => 16" M4 Pro MacBook Pro
Mac16,6 => 16" M4 Max MacBook Pro
Which leaves 7 name tags for everything else
Mac16,7 => Mac Mini M4
Mac16,8 => Mac Mini M4 Pro
Mac16,9 =>
Mac16,10 =>
Mac16,11 => iMac 24" M4 (2-port) or another Mac mini version
Mac16,12 =>
Mac16,13 =>
M5 New Hidra chip Macs (mid-end of 2025)
Mac17,1 => Studio M5 Max Hidra
Mac17,2 => Studio M5 Ultra Hidra
with post WWDC M5 Macs not yet listed so the M5 Mac Pro Hidra just isn't there yet.
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Mine is here: #32 above
Pretty boring compared to you folks, but nothing has transpired to make me want to adjust it…
Edit: Actually, I take that back. I’d replace Mac16,11 M4 Pro Mac Mini with an M4 Pro Mac Studio.
Also, apparently the stolen machines are real, so switch Mac16,3 M4 MacBook Pro 14" to Mac16,1 and move the two iMacs to Mac16,2 and Mac16,3.
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Remember Mark Gurman's predictions too when compiling your own list.
He's shot down the MBA release for this year.
He's shot down the MBA release for this year.
That would not surprise me. It is entirely possible that M5 family will introduce new technology that enables higher desktop performance.
CXL sounds like a great fit for Mac Pro, but considering that this tech is still vaporware, I doubt that Apple will go that route. If they are interested in this kind of expandability, it might be more feasible to roll a custom solution.
Not a chance. Next year’s MB Air will be M4 TB4.
Looks like your predictions for the MBP and iMac were pessimistic while Mac Studio and Mac Pro too optimistic ^^
I hope we get an M5 MBA early next year, that would be neat!
You know one of the interesting things about the Hidra rumor is that back in the Mac Pro release of 2022 a whole bunch of leaks came out, from apparently multiple sources, about how not to expect multi-die chips from Apple for the next few generations of chips. That said, the name Hidra is certainly evocative of a multi-die chip isn't it? I mean it would be weird to call a die Hidra and then have it only be able to combine once to make two "heads". Of course these names are often pointless, what does Donan vs Brava tell you about the die? So maybe it's nothing. But it certainly doesn't sound like nothing in this case.
Of course that doesn't mean a multi-die solution needs be as extreme as the old rumored Extreme - like the equivalent of 4 M3 Maxes would've had 48 P-Cores, 16 E-cores, and 160 GPU cores. If the high end desktop chip are using their own bespoke dies then you can imagine all sorts of combinations. For instance, instead of assuming that the Hidra die can exist on their own, let's assume the minimum number of die is 2. You could then make an individual Hidra die small and cheap to produce (even if you increase clocks relative to the laptop-focused chip) with say 8 P-cores and 3 E-cores and 32 GPU cores. The full chip of 4 such die would have 32 P-cores, 12 E-cores, and 128 GPU cores - still a pretty big monster! An individual die could be binned with say 6 P-cores and 24 GPU cores such that the 4 die chip would have 24 P-cores, 12 E-cores, and 96 GPU cores. A desktop "Max" equivalent could be two die with 12/6/48 cores on the low end to 16/6/64 cores on the high end.
Speculation is fun!
If it gets updated in the spring with an M4, it would be a year. It doesn't have to be updated in the fall to be M4 - same as the M3 generation where MacBook Pros were released in the falls, the Airs were released in the Spring (and the 15" was only roughly 270 days old, though I don't think they'll be repeating that).
My version
Mac16,1 => 14" M4 MacBook Pro (confirmed??!)
and extrapolate
Mac16,2 => 14" M4 Pro MacBook Pro
Mac16,3 => 14" M4 Max MacBook Pro
Mac16,5 => 16" M4 Pro MacBook Pro
Mac16,6 => 16" M4 Max MacBook Pro
Which leaves 7 name tags for everything else
Mac16,7 => Mac Mini M4
Mac16,8 => Mac Mini M4 Pro
Mac16,9 =>Mac Mini M4 Max13" M4 MacBook Air
Mac16,10 =>iMac 27->32" M415" M4 MacBook Air (changed some numbers around to group the Airs together, the exact IDs are obviously less important but the pattern holding then breaking was bothering me, plus now the below IDs are the more speculative than the above)
Mac16,11 => iMac 24" M4 (2-port) or another Mac mini version
Mac16,12 =>iMac 27->32" Pro M4Mac Studio M4 MaxiMac 24" M4 (4-port)
Mac16,13 =>iMac 27->32" Max M4 Mac Studio M4 UltraiMac 24" M4 pro or another Mac mini version if 16,11 is the two port iMac
M5 New Hidra chip Macs (mid-end of 2025)
Mac17,1 => Studio M5 Max HidraMac Pro Hydra
Mac17,2 => Studio M5 Ultra HidraMac AI Server Hydra (Internal Use Only)
with post WWDC M5 Macs not yet listed so the M5 Mac Pro Hidra just isn't there yet.
Both Mac16,7 and Mac16,11 has M4 Pro. Which one is MacBook Pro and which one is Mac mini?
Mac16,11 - Geekbench
Benchmark results for a Mac16,11 with an Apple M4 Pro processor.
browser.geekbench.com
Mac16,7 - Geekbench
Benchmark results for a Mac16,7 with an Apple M4 Pro processor.
browser.geekbench.com
Here are my predictions:
Code:
M4 Macs
Mac16,1 MBP 14” M4
Mac16,2 iMac 24” M4 (2-port)
Mac16,3 iMac 24” M4 (4-port)
Mac16,4 DNE
Mac16,5 Mac mini M4
Mac16,6 MBP 14” M4 Pro
Mac16,7 MBP 16” M4 Pro
Mac16,8 MBP 14” M4 Max (384b)
Mac16,9 MBP 16” M4 Max (384b)
Mac16,10 MBP 16” M4 Max (512b)
Mac16,11 Mac mini M4 Pro
Mac16,12 MBA 13” M4
Mac16,13 MBA 15” M4
M5 Macs
Mac17,1 Mac Studio M5 Ultra
Mac17,2 Mac Studio M5 Extreme
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