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GainSaver (or Gain$aver) = Fraud?

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Fritz The Cat said:
Etan1000

Being that you seem to work for a pre-owned Apple-authorized reseller like PowerMax. I must tell you if the prices were about the same and PowerMax was easier to find then Gainsaver I would have gone with them, but to be honest I have never heard of the company until today. … I do not sell computers I just edit, good luck … in selling your products.
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You are way off-base with that assumption or accusation. I have no connection with PowerMax or any other computer vendor, nor do I have anything to do with the computer industry other than as a consumer and a user of computers in my offices and at home since 1984.

If you subscribed to the Apple User Group Bulletin, available to all members of user groups, you would know about the legitimate companies, including but not limited to PowerMax which I cited as an example of a well-known reliable source for used computer equipment.

Don't you belong to any Apple user groups? If not, you should, rather than blindly going with Gain$aver or any similar outfit on the basis of some obviously phony-sounding ad like "Apple Price Drops.".

I made a valid point - you don't first place an order with an unknown company, paying them hundreds or thousands of dollars on your credit card, and then start investigating the legitimacy of the company. You seek out information about reputation and experience before you buy, not after you place the order.
 
I just wanted to post some relevant information about GainSaver:

It seems to be owned by:

Jeff Goldfield
3900 Killroy Airport Way Suite 350
Long Beach, CA 90806

who has also registered the domain bnetsoftware.com. I work for a company who supposedly subscribed to the bnetsoftware for shopping cart use. However, this software never worked, and I have been investigating the case for a while now. I have found out that bnetsoftware is owned by the same person who owns GainSaver. If you call the number on bnetsoftware it gives you GainSaver.

William Rath of the Denim Company and Dan Hurd of Complete Tablet might be also be involved in this series of scams.

Some of the "locations" of the affiliated companies are:

1601 Lockness Pl
Torrance, CA 90501

3900 Kilroy Airport Way Suite 350
Long Beach, CA 90806

(Former Address?)
1251 W Sepulveda Blvd Suite 214
Torrance, CA 90502

Some of the affiliated Emails:
jg@gainsaver.com
jgoldfield@adelphia.net - Email used to register bnetsoftware


Some of the purported Phone Numbers:

Numbers For bNetSoftware
877-684-1464 - They answers the phone as GainSaver
310-257-2555 - This number is no longer in service, but it appears to be Jeff Goldfield's old mobile(?) number.

Numbers for Gain Saver:
Toll Free: 800-844-4051
Direct: 562-216-7180
Fax: 702-974-3320

Numbers for Complete Tablet:
1-866-780-7480

Names of those affiliated:
Jeff Goldfield - bNetSoftware
Steve Harper - Sales Manager (GainSever)
Daniel Hurd - Complete Tablet Solutions
William Rath - Denim Company

I am still compiling more information, let me know if anyone can help!
 
Sorry Etan 1000

The only real point I was trying to make is there is not only a market for people who have trouble comming up with the scratch for a new machine, but people in my boat with very coastly software packages, like mine for example who need an older machine in order to not pay even a higher cost then the computer for upgrade of working software. The G4 I purchased is doing it's job well, I don't belive apple is too worried about the OS from gainsaver, they sold me original set up disks for $40. I assumed when you refered to PowerMax you wanted them to have my business.

I was only worried about my purchase after reading this thread, I believe my fears were unfounded, however, I also see that positive gainsaver news has been poster and left up. All this says to me you guys prob. have real problems with this company. I also talked to Steve who told me that most problems they have with customer service is due to "customers expecting flashy brand new stuff at used prices." As Mac users we are all used to things being perfect, but my 6 year old G4 died after earning me a living all that time, it is a Mac that no longer works after I used it for 6 years. Things wear out and sometimes can be repaired, I wanted a faster machine so I sold the broken one on Ebay and purchased this one, and if this machine has had the bad parts replaced with working ones, that is fine with me, If I could have found this machine new I would have bought it.
 
This just keeps getting more interesting. The address 3900 Kilroy Airport Way, Suite 350 is linked to so many things!

I thought People's Liberation was a legitimate clothing line? But they use the same address:
http://www.peoplesliberation.com/Peoplesliberation/app/ContactUs.aspx

And so does Venture Commerce (a site that was listed in the source code for the shopping cart on GainSaver).
562.216.7190
http://venturecommerce.com/

This is very confusing. I don't know what is real and what is fake.

Fritz The Cat said:
The only real point I was trying to make is there is not only a market for people who have trouble comming up with the scratch for a new machine, but people in my boat with very coastly software packages, like mine for example who need an older machine in order to not pay even a higher cost then the computer for upgrade of working software. The G4 I purchased is doing it's job well, I don't belive apple is too worried about the OS from gainsaver, they sold me original set up disks for $40. I assumed when you refered to PowerMax you wanted them to have my business.

I was only worried about my purchase after reading this thread, I believe my fears were unfounded, however, I also see that positive gainsaver news has been poster and left up. All this says to me you guys prob. have real problems with this company. I also talked to Steve who told me that most problems they have with customer service is due to "customers expecting flashy brand new stuff at used prices." As Mac users we are all used to things being perfect, but my 6 year old G4 died after earning me a living all that time, it is a Mac that no longer works after I used it for 6 years. Things wear out and sometimes can be repaired, I wanted a faster machine so I sold the broken one on Ebay and purchased this one, and if this machine has had the bad parts replaced with working ones, that is fine with me, If I could have found this machine new I would have bought it.
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Hey Fritz, quit parading around like a neutral party.

http://www.resellerratings.com/profile.pl?user=414710
http://www.resellerratings.com/profile.pl?user=414710

You registered on that site for the sole purpose of promoting gainsaver.com
You did the exact same thing here.

Something looks mighty fishy.
 
For the moment I choose to believe that Fritz The Cat is not a shill for GainSaver. Perhaps he is just a lucky purchaser?
 
yellow said:
For the moment I choose to believe that Fritz The Cat is not a shill for GainSaver. Perhaps he is just a lucky purchaser?
Click to expand...

I'm not sure. I can't decide if GainSaver is a scam in that they send out defective products just to have them returned, so they can charge a 20% restocking fee, or if they are truly just one of the worst and most unreliable companies ever.

I'm leaning toward a scam. Look at all the sites affiliated with it.
 
I canceled my order, and was refunded to my Paypal account which is how I paid. I was told on day 1 when I ordered that it would go out that day, and it didn't. I was told on day 2 that it would go out that day, and it didn't. I was told that it would take up to 48 hours to generate a tracking number. I called Fedex and they said that's unheardof, once you print a label there is a tracking number.

I don't believe they are crooks, I think they are just taking advantage of people and I guess thats the reason they survive. I believe if I didn't care, and I wasn't on top of the situation, I would have gotten my iMac in 10-14 days - but since that's not what they advertise, I refuse to do business with them. I would suggest to anyone, that if they are OK with that type of service, feel free to do business with them. IF not, then avoid at all costs.
 
GainSaver is a Rip Off

This is the letter that I sent to them Today they ar yet to respond I have been calling nonstop no one will return my call this is a horible company to do business with.!
To Who it my concern,

I have attempted to be extremely patient in regards to this defective Mac book Laptop that I have received from your company on Friday May 30th 2008. The Computer worked fine for almost a week and I tried to turn it on Friday June 4th and the computer would Not Turn on at ALL. I received an email Back from the company stating that there would be a 40% restocking fee! However per your T&C's there is a 20% restocking fee in exception for apple products that at have a problem within Two weeks and it has not been two weeks as of yet. I am in the process of Reporting my Concerns and Issues to the BBB of Long Beach CA and also Resellerratings.com. I have spoken with your sales Manager Steven Harper on Yesterday and was told that I would receive a full refund after I summit another RMA which I did and have not received a reply or call back since the last RMA request. I have been attempting to call and have left several VM messages and have not received a response in order to rectify this situation. I would hate to have to spend any additional funds due to having to involve my attorney due to negligence on the behalf of your company. I have already spent $829.19 with no results except a nice looking laptop that doesn't work I will not hesitate to do what is necessary within my means to make sure that I am treated fairly in regards to this situation.

Sincerely
Nakeesha
If you desire to clear this issue immediately please contact me by cell phone <removed>.
 
Etan1000 said:
If you subscribed to the Apple User Group Bulletin, available to all members of user groups, you would know about the legitimate companies, including but not limited to PowerMax which I cited as an example of a well-known reliable source for used computer equipment.

Don't you belong to any Apple user groups? If not, you should, rather than blindly going with Gain$aver or any similar outfit on the basis of some obviously phony-sounding ad like "Apple Price Drops.".
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This url may be helpful to those looking for LEGITIMATE used Mac bargains:

http://www.applemugstore.com/

See also:

http://homepage.mac.com/ugab/offers.html

which is the home of the Apple User Group Advisory Board.

It is not all that difficult to avoid dealing with unsavory outfits if you keep yourself reasonably well-informed.
 
Gainsaver and Steve Harper...crooks

Like so many you on this board, I currently in the process of getting ripped off by this joke of a company. It is beyond me that this place is still open for business. What they do is ILLEGAL, but who is going to go to court over $100. Steve Harper is a fraud and a crook....my guess is that he was picked on as a kid and this is his way of getting back at people...hanging up on customers and then pretending that it was a mistake when you call back, misleading customers thinking that we are all idiots, explaining numerous BS excuses to try to get you off the phone, then actually telling you he will refund your money when all else fails then not doing what he said he would do!! STEVE HARPER-YOU ARE A PATHETIC HUMAN BEING!!

My case is simple: I bought a laptop. I returned the laptop. I was charged a 40% restocking fee.

DO NOT BUY FROM GAINSAVER.COM. DO NOT BUY FROM GAINSAVER.COM

I have a active complaint with LA BBB and my credit card company, but I have little faith in getting back my other 20%.

I have never been treated so poorly by a merchant in my life.
 
techound1 said:
Willing to share your top secret logons for those sites?
Click to expand...

The logins are changed monthly but are available to all members of all Apple User Groups. Simply go to this page:

http://www.apple.com/usergroups/find/

and click "Find a User Group" and join one, and then they will keep you informed of the logins.

There are a lot of benefits in belonging to one or more of these groups and most of them are free to join and participate.

And if you want to buy or fix or update used or refurb Mac equipment, you don't have to deal with fly-by-nights.
 
$27,500 GainSaver Disaster (not small change)

:mad: :mad: NEVER DO BUSINESS WITH THESE PEOPLE :mad: :mad:
I purchased 52 units by phone for $499 plus shipping. I sent a cashier's check which they cashed with in 2 days. After they cashed the check Steve Harper called and said the price had increased by over $10,000 and I need to send more money. After a heated conversation I told him my attorney would be in touch. 30 minutes after that I received an email from Gain Saver canceling my order. The next day they issued a store credit for $27,560 which I can not use at all. I need my $27,560 back so I can purchase from a more reputable company. The company will not return my calls or emails and they will not refund my money even though they were the ones that canceled my order after a "bait and switch". My company does fundraising for non-profit charities and we are now out our entire capital revenue for 2008 equipment purchase. We need help in the worst way with this issue. FTC requires that Gain Saver refund my money as they could not fulfill the order ! that was originally placed.

Product is STILL advertised at the following link. http://www.gainsaver.com/gainsaver/app/catalog/list.aspx?Keyword=le1600

Per thread 89 I have submitted a formal complaint to the FTC as well as the Attorney General in California and registered a complaint with the LABBB.

I do admit that I have received a refund for the $27,500 but it took over a month and I am still out over $3,500 in attorney fees needed to get a refund as apposed to a "Store Credit". What can a person do with a $27,500 "Store Credit" when the company as poor as this?

Please avoid this company at any cost.:mad:
 
Fundraiser
You are complaining about a bad purchase of PC tablet computers on a Mac forum?

Frankly, if you sent your organization's money by cashier's cheque to an internet company offering cut rate products without doing due diligence, you are seven kinds of irresponsible.

EPinions.com

Reseller Ratings 3.64 out of 10

Dealmac

Dealnews

Pricegrabber.com

That was found in 30 seconds on Google.

And you bought and paid for 50 odd units sight unseen, without getting a trial unit first for testing? And you didn't use a charge card, where you at least have some leverage? And you didn't think it odd that the seller wanted a non-stoppable, non-recoverable payment method? And you didn't read the return and restocking policies before ordering?

Let me guess -- you were hoping to get these tablet computers for $500 each and flip them to make money.

I'm sorry for your trouble, but if you don't follow the first common sense things that any buyer should before sending away the money....

Lets just say it is buyers whose greed for a 'too good to be true' deal overcomes common sense who keep operators like these in business.
 
Positive experience from Newbie in Chicago

So here is my experience with GainSaver. Yes, I only just registered here… but I've only just switched from Vista so I had no reason to be previously registed.

  1. I bought an iMac 24" from Apple as a main PC but needed another smaller PC for my family machine. I didn’t want to pay full whack so looked at Craigslist & eBay for options - nothing appeared that I liked the look of
  2. I found GainSaver on the web via some Googling and bought an iMac 20" (white model) on credit card at a great price. Maybe if I'd read here first I wouldn't have done because I don’t like using questionable vendors.
  3. However, the iMac arrived in 3 days and is great - although it was flagged as 'used' it is in perfect condition. It came with a crappy keyb & mouse with I dumped for decent Apple items, no manuals or media. Exactly as I expected.
  4. I have NO IDEA what their after sale service is like because I have no experience of this, but I can confirm that my sales experience was brilliant. Others may have a different point of view if GainSaver screwed up their order.
  5. I am in the market for a laptop and will use GainSaver for this if the price & product is right

So, you can discount what I've said if you like and accuse me of being a shill poster, etc. Whatever. I had a good sales experience and I think it should be stated here as such.

JWL
 
I think not doing any research on the company youre buying from was a mistake, and sending them a cashiers check for almost $30K was your last mistake. Sorry you got scammed man, but seriously a cashiers check to an internet company?
 
Fundraiser said:
:mad: :mad: NEVER DO BUSINESS WITH THESE PEOPLE :mad: :mad:
I purchased 52 units by phone for $499 plus shipping. I sent a cashier's check …
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You are likely liable to the charitable organization you say you represent, for losing their money by a total lack of due diligence. You should definitely be removed from whatever office you hold in this organization, and you should reimburse them for their attorney fees.

Or is there another story behind this one? In one paragraph you say you are out $27,000+ and in another paragraph you say you got the money back, but you spent $3500+ hiring a lawyer. This is all rather incoherent, don't you think?

Such naiveté in dealing with a known fly-by-night company is really hard to fathom.
 
Etan1000 said:
Or is there another story behind this one? In one paragraph you say you are out $27,000+ and in another paragraph you say you got the money back, but you spent $3500+ hiring a lawyer. This is all rather incoherent, don't you think?
Click to expand...
The OP said they got a $27K store credit with GS, not a refund.

Doesn't matter, they registered only to post their complaint, they'll never be back to MR and are uninterested in our advice. Trollish.

Chicagolunt, I hope you got a good bribe for posting a positive review.
 
Let me restate my earlier posts:

GainSaver and all affiliated companies/people are nothing but scam artists. They con people out of money, plain and simple. Anyone with a positive review is nothing but a company shill.

This is not a real company. They are not "unreliable"; they are a scam. The BBB knows this. The California Justice department knows this. The police department knows this. I know this.

GainSaver is one of the literally hundreds of companies affiliate with this scam ring.
 
>> Chicagolunt, I hope you got a good bribe for posting a positive review
No bride necessary - my experience was fine. I find it amazing that people cannot believe anothers PoV on this board.

>> Anyone with a positive review is nothing but a company shill.
Not true, but clearly you and some other posters here are not minded to believe it.

If your GainSaver experience was negative then its unfortunate. If MINE had been bad I would have probably joined the bashers. But MINE was not. People need to see both ends of the picture. Good & bad. Do your own research then buy where ever you like. I bought at Gainsaver and I'm pretty happy.
 
ChicagoLunt said:
>> If your GainSaver experience was negative then its unfortunate. If MINE had been bad I would have probably joined the bashers. But MINE was not. People need to see both ends of the picture. Good & bad.….
Click to expand...

It's "unfortunate?"

"People need to see both ends of the picture?"

Very strange reasoning. Why would I want to take the chance of buying something from and giving my money to a company that has so many people reporting absolutely horrible experiences? Why would I care that a few others like you had good experiences? I want to buy from established companies that have OVERWHELMINGLY good reputations, not ones where dealing with them is a crapshoot, where I would have to wait and see whether or not I get robbed or turn out to be one of the "lucky" ones like you claim you were.

If I want to gamble, I'll buy lottery tickets, not computer equipment, thank you.

If anyone wants to get a quick taste of how unethical this company is, sign up for their sales letters and then try to unsubscribe.

And by the way, their prices on used equipment are not bargains. Try checking their prices against any legitimate company selling used computer equipment.
 
I must be one of a handful of people who actually got a working computer. I bought a Quad G5 9-10 months ago and it's still works;) Cheaper than a new computer and software upgrades that would have been required at the time.

The only issue I had with it was a bad HD bay sensor that kept the HD fan revving up and down. Fixed it by unplugging it. Will replace at my leisure.

It sucks that so many people have had issues with Gainsaver. But good to know about all the issues and not to try my luck again.
 
My point about bribes is that it is common with some kinds of sellers, to offer incentives to buyers to post positive reviews of their deal, even in advance of receiving the goods. Obviously I don't know in specific about this company.

Often times, these reviews take a common format of

"At first I was skeptical because I've read some things, but I decided to take a chance. blah blah Got a great price, blah blah there was a small hiccup in delivery but the company treated me really well and came through for me blah blah I'd recommend them. Happy with my deal"

It's almost like a template the companies hand out - written to overcome buyer's objections by introducing doubt then solving it. Read the Resellers Ratings and ePinions reviews, the positive ones with this format jump out.

When you're researching companies, you can safely ignore these positive reviews. After all, there's no magic in occasionally getting an order right -- even a scam company will deliver a few deals to customers to prime the pump. The real measure of a company is how do they treat customers when deals go wrong? With contempt, evasions, lies and non-refunds? Or honorably like they actually intended to make a fair deal?
 
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