Job Snow just standing in front of the ice dragon and roaring.... yeah that’s gonna help!
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Game of Thrones (HBO)
- Thread starter Huntn
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It’s a fantasy show. Why would it be realistic? The fact that people who “shouldn’t” survive end up surviving is just... life.
The worst one was Lyanna. She should have just been immediately killed when that giant smashed her to the side.
Nah! Kids can withstand all sort of crazy hits, as any parent knows.
I had a feeling you’d cherry-pick that word, “realistic,” and respond with “but it’s a fantasy show.”
I think it's reasonable to expect human characters -on a fantasy show that has unequivocally embraced the mortality of humans- to not suddenly be invincible. And I'm not the only one. Just google "plot armor" without any reference to Game of Thrones, and see how many top hits are for this recent episode.
I had a feeling you’d cherry-pick that word, “realistic,” and respond with “but it’s a fantasy show.”
I think it's reasonable to expect human characters -on a fantasy show that has unequivocally embraced the mortality of humans- to not suddenly be invincible. And I'm not the only one. Just google "plot armor" without any reference to Game of Thrones, and see how many top hits are for this recent episode.
They have “plot armor” because the show isn’t over yet lol. People just conjured this expectation that lots of main characters were going to die (two did) but instead you all just got thrown for a loop with the characters that are still instrumental to the story surviving.
It's nice that they set up a whole action-packed episode. But the way they did it was not the best in my opinion. It's a fantasy show, yes, but the way the battle was portrayed right from the start suggests that it shouldn't have lasted more than 5 minutes. There was nothing they could do to stop the army of the dead.
If they wanted so many to survive then they should have made it at least a little more even. This looked like a massacre and ended up dragging out much longer than it should have.
The main arc is the throne, but the Night King was built up for way too long to be gotten rid of like this. At least make it a one-on-one battle, not that he's surrounded by 30 other white-walkers and somehow nobody noticed that person coming at him.
To me it feels like the show-runners were told/forced to go in a different direction than the books will be written and this is the result we're getting.
I tend to be disappointed by show/movie endings. Probably because I don't like seeing something I'm invested in come to an end. Just not a big fan of the direction this episode went in. Curious to see how the rest work out.
If they wanted so many to survive then they should have made it at least a little more even. This looked like a massacre and ended up dragging out much longer than it should have.
The main arc is the throne, but the Night King was built up for way too long to be gotten rid of like this. At least make it a one-on-one battle, not that he's surrounded by 30 other white-walkers and somehow nobody noticed that person coming at him.
To me it feels like the show-runners were told/forced to go in a different direction than the books will be written and this is the result we're getting.
I tend to be disappointed by show/movie endings. Probably because I don't like seeing something I'm invested in come to an end. Just not a big fan of the direction this episode went in. Curious to see how the rest work out.
The dragons killed a lot of zombies probably.
And they spent like the entire season + the one before and the entire episode talking about how stealthy Arya is. She’s more quiet than a drop of blood. “Where’s Arya?” Was a common phrase, and she routinely snuck up on people - she was trained by magical assassins lol.
I agree that I felt a little underwhelmed by the NK dying but there was just too much foreshadowing that it would happen. Maybe we will learn more next episode.
Are we sure both dragons survived? I’m not 100% sure.
I think next episode will be licking of wounds and seeing if they have enough of an army left to attack Kingslanding.
Or they could just send the silent assassin!
I think next episode will be licking of wounds and seeing if they have enough of an army left to attack Kingslanding.
Or they could just send the silent assassin!
I think it’s 100% they both survived from what I’ve read on r/gameofthrones
Yea... it’s hard to tell from the episode exactly who survived and how. I like the chaos. Honestly, I enjoyed the entire episode. Everything from the “breath of air” of the dragons above the storm to Arya slipping by the zombies in the library to Jon allegedly screaming “goooo go go” so Arya could sneak past the dragon into the Godswood
Thought this was good too:
https://www.reddit.com/r/gameofthro...ilers_looking_back_at_previous_big_character/
https://www.reddit.com/r/gameofthro...ilers_looking_back_at_previous_big_character/
I would have liked to see her stepped on actually. I was thinking that was going to happen when the giant was walking towards her! Kind of twisted I know, but I was bummed when it didn't happen.
Yea. Having her kill an ice giant was huge fan service (for those complaining about plot armor).
S8E8 Spoilers:
- I like an episode devoted to a battle, in this series, finally. The dragons sweeping the enemy with flames was stellar but...
- I hate very dark environments in cinema, and this was so frick’n dark, I don’t like getting small glimpses of what is going on, which we were in the position of for 90% of the fighting. Blah!
- I knew the Dark King being killed was the key to winning, it was unexpected and was happy to see Ayra deliver the killing blow, especially with that slick knife move. What a debt of gratitude they all owe her!
- I like Lyanna getting in a killing blow!
- It was very hard to gage just how badly the good guys were hurt. By the end of the episode it looked like a total rout, and death was just wiping up stragglers. I really disliked this dynamic. How many of their forces remain, are they still a formidable force? You have to assume they are, or the story maybe over, but who knows.
- I was pleased that (as far as I know), we only lost two of the primary characters, Mormont and Theon Greyjoy.
I thought Sam was ordered to go to the crypt, but then I remember him bragging about killing a walker ... so I was kinda wondering why he was out in the fighting. His survival, just lucky.
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She was the pounce who was promised
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Apparently, Arya's story arc provided enough clues that she'd be the one to kill the Night King, though I didn't pick up on them. But I'm still a bit disappointed that there wasn't a greater cost. Bran and the Night King had a connection, so I might have expected Bran to die or at least be injured when the Night King shattered. I wonder what Bran's going to do in the remaining three episodes. Is it possible that the Night King's consciousness was transferred to Bran at the final moment, like Spok did to McCoy in The Wrath of Khan? And why did Bran warg into the flock of ravens? Was he just bored waiting in the godswood, or something more?
I re-watched part of the episode the other night and, complaints about darkness notwithstanding, I was impressed that they were able to coordinate all the action. Lots of moving bodies and other parts. Much like Battle of the Bastards, some of the most impressive shots were overheads of the battlefield. I especially liked watching the Dothraki's arakhs flaming in sequence after Mel's incantation.
I re-watched part of the episode the other night and, complaints about darkness notwithstanding, I was impressed that they were able to coordinate all the action. Lots of moving bodies and other parts. Much like Battle of the Bastards, some of the most impressive shots were overheads of the battlefield. I especially liked watching the Dothraki's arakhs flaming in sequence after Mel's incantation.
The show was dark because that was what would have been realistic in that setting (the north) at that time of the chronological year (winter).
Winterfell lies in the north, and - the whole point of the chronology of the story - we are now in winter, where the quality of light is poor, even in daylight.
Therefore, outside, it is going to be dark, and dim, and hard to see in both day and night because we are now in winter, where the natural light in the north will be limited.
The series reflects this, and wished to use the sort of natural light that would have been experienced by such characters in a medieval setting during a battle in the depths of winter. And remember how much the books have made of the passing of the seasons, with a formal declaration of when autumn and winter have come to pass - this is important to the plot.
Likewise, the arrival of spring will be of equal importance and will herald the end of the story.
Even inside, in interior shots, it is quite dark. This is because, even for the wealthy, beeswax candles were expensive, and were used sparingly, except for celebrations and banquets, when being able to afford to light your castle/dwelling/palace indoors with the generous use of beeswax candles was a sign of considerable wealth.
I have been in castles where large mirrors are placed over mantelpieces; this was not for reasons of vanity, or of fashion, it was explained to me, but rather, it was intended to amplify whatever light - candle light - was available at the time.
In essence, the mirror reflected the light, thereby amplifying it. That the wealthy needed to be able to amplify light informs us that even the well off could not afford to be needlessly profligate with beeswax candles.
Winterfell lies in the north, and - the whole point of the chronology of the story - we are now in winter, where the quality of light is poor, even in daylight.
Therefore, outside, it is going to be dark, and dim, and hard to see in both day and night because we are now in winter, where the natural light in the north will be limited.
The series reflects this, and wished to use the sort of natural light that would have been experienced by such characters in a medieval setting during a battle in the depths of winter. And remember how much the books have made of the passing of the seasons, with a formal declaration of when autumn and winter have come to pass - this is important to the plot.
Likewise, the arrival of spring will be of equal importance and will herald the end of the story.
Even inside, in interior shots, it is quite dark. This is because, even for the wealthy, beeswax candles were expensive, and were used sparingly, except for celebrations and banquets, when being able to afford to light your castle/dwelling/palace indoors with the generous use of beeswax candles was a sign of considerable wealth.
I have been in castles where large mirrors are placed over mantelpieces; this was not for reasons of vanity, or of fashion, it was explained to me, but rather, it was intended to amplify whatever light - candle light - was available at the time.
In essence, the mirror reflected the light, thereby amplifying it. That the wealthy needed to be able to amplify light informs us that even the well off could not afford to be needlessly profligate with beeswax candles.
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I will not last through the last 3 ep's of GOT. Wife will watch it, but I gave up on it long ago.
Just T&A, and all the sense numbing violence that it's possible to cram into a short span of time, is all these episodes seem to have been made of.
GOT was indeed a "spectacular" and the biggest "soap seller" of all times,
But as for me, I didn't even like the dragons,(way too mean LOL). a2
Just T&A, and all the sense numbing violence that it's possible to cram into a short span of time, is all these episodes seem to have been made of.
GOT was indeed a "spectacular" and the biggest "soap seller" of all times,
But as for me, I didn't even like the dragons,(way too mean LOL). a2
That is not necessarily true.
The battle scenes work not just because of the spectacular production values, but because of the character development and narrative arc that has preceded them.
Characters - how they react and how they relate - drive the battle scenes, not the other way around, although the battle scenes have a major bearing on plot development which in turn present fresh challenges to the characters.
You want to see how these characters - some of who you have become quite invested in - react to this challenge and relate to one another as they do so, and whether their alliances and friendships and relationships will survive these fresh challenges and tests.
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My understanding is that the search for power in the middle ages was brutal. Very brutal. I'd say that GOT is somewhat realistic in a portrayal which is clearly inspired by the middle ages. Just think of the so-called Cadaver Synod, when Pope Stephen VI decided to exhume his own predecessor Pope Formosus, and put him to trial (the cadaver!!). Not only Formosus couldn't defend himself (well, he was dead), but he was found guilty and his name and papacy was erased from the official records...
Then, if you go read about Pope Formosus, you will see that even his own life (and that of those surrounding him) was full of intrigues and violence.
The trial:
My understanding is that the search for power in the middle ages was brutal. Very brutal. I'd say that GOT is somewhat realistic in a portrayal which is clearly inspired by the middle ages. Just think of the so-called Cadaver Synod, when Pope Stephen VI decided to exhume his own predecessor Pope Formosus, and put him to trial (the cadaver!!). Not only Formosus couldn't defend himself (well, he was dead), but he was found guilty and his name and papacy was erased from the official records...
Then, if you go read about Pope Formosus, you will see that even his own life (and that of those surrounding him) was full of intrigues and violence.
The trial:
Very good post.
George R R Martin has stated that elements of his story are loosely based on (or rather, somewhat inspired by) The Wars of the Roses.
To me, (and I have taught medieval history, as well as Renaissance, Reformation and Counter-Reformation history) it is clear that he has an excellent understanding of how the power relationships, personal relationships, family relationships, economies, wars, and societies functioned in the late medieval era.
Add to that some excellent characters - and character development (above all, the writing of some very strong female characters which was a serious lack in early fantasy writing), some impressive sorcery and elements of fierce fantasy, graphic - and taboo-breaking descriptions of sex, war and violence - some seriously brilliant set pieces (the Red Wedding) and a clinical capacity to kill off characters deemed essential (I cannot have been the only person to have assumed that Eddard Stark would be the protagonist and main POV character when I started reading the books), plus an environmentally aware element to the plot, and you have a gripping narrative.
Mind you, I also cannot be the only person who would like it if G R R Martin resisted the temptations of losing himself in the creative delights of designing and constructing world building cul-de-sacs and simply focussed on bringing the series to a satisfying conclusion.
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They're both in next week's preview
It's pretty clear to me Rhaegal simply ran out of gas. He didn't look wounded enough to die.
I applaud the way the dragons were handled. It seems correct that two dragons could overpower the one in combat but the living dragons would become less effective as the battle continued.
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Drogon and Rhaegal seemed to be MIA towards the end of the battle whereas Viserion was still wrecking havoc. Well Drogon came back to morn the loss of Sir Jorah but that was all we saw of him in the last 20 minutes.
I’m starting to doubt that George RR Martin Will ever release another book in the song of ice of fire series so I’m never going to get a conclusion to the ‘real story’.