Game of Thrones (HBO)

[MBAir2010]

why are human beings complaining about a script of a TV show, a great one i might add?
besides they lost all regard for accepting anything that is not 100% in their favor.
The script is perfect and in tune with the rest of the seasons' writing.
the characters demise are not as majestic or fitting as some might vision but to condone a TV series is just not fair.

see everyone here Monday morning.

 

[Falhófnir]

I find it hilarious that, as of this morning, more than 773,000 people have signed an online petition demanding that HBO remake season 8. No matter what you think of the writing, the likelihood of that happening is, well, zero. Does anyone really expect the network to spend 10 or 15 million dollars an episode, not to mention securing the services of the cast, none of whom would probably agree? It'd make more sense to ask HBO to do another season resurrecting all the dead (or mostly dead) characters.

Even if it's just venting frustration, it reminds me of the SNL skit with William Shatner when he tells fans at a Star Trek convention "I mean, for crying out loud, it's just a TV show!"

For book readers, I suppose that this serves as a warning and guide for GRRM if he ever finishes the last two volumes. Whatever D&D wrote in season 8, he should just do the opposite.

I wouldn't be quite so hasty to dismiss it. The show doesn't cost money, it makes it - I'd imagine it's as close to a license to print money anyone at HBO could hope for... if they see there's unprecedented demand to do it, and there's money to be made, it will be done. Maybe not right away, but they won't leave money on the table. Perhaps after they find out how the first spin off shows do so they can choose what to invest in, more spinoff series (if successful) or a remake (soft reboot?) of S7/8 (if not so successful). I'm imagining even 1-2 million signatures might not swing it though, it would probably have to be approaching half the viewership figures (so more like 4-6M) to convince them the demand is there.

 

[Huntn]

why are human beings complaining about a script of a TV show, a great one i might add?
besides they lost all regard for accepting anything that is not 100% in their favor.
The script is perfect and in tune with the rest of the seasons' writing.
the characters demise are not as majestic or fitting as some might vision but to condone a TV series is just not fair.

see everyone here Monday morning.

It’s an expectation problem, they were expecting something great, profound, amazing, not chopped up, although HBO has been doing this all along. It’s just that now, the chopping had become more extreme to get it done in the time allotted. One thing that is perfectly clear, is that this story with the number of hours HBO has given it (80+hrs) would have never worked as a movie or even 3 movies and satisfied book fans.

I’m hoping the books get finished.

 

[Falhófnir]

It’s an expectation problem, they were expecting something great, profound, amazing, not chopped up, although HBO has been doing this all along. It’s just that now, the chopping had become more extreme to get it done in the time allotted. One thing that is perfectly clear, is that this story with the number of hours HBO has given it (80+hrs) would have never worked as a movie or even 3 movies and satisfied book fans.

I’m hoping the books get finished.

That they get finished and GRRM takes his time to work it all out to a proper and satisfying ending - I hope that's not a dichotomy

 

[loon3y]

why are human beings complaining about a script of a TV show, a great one i might add?
besides they lost all regard for accepting anything that is not 100% in their favor.
The script is perfect and in tune with the rest of the seasons' writing.
the characters demise are not as majestic or fitting as some might vision but to condone a TV series is just not fair.

see everyone here Monday morning.

IM guess you never read the books.

They literally filled it up with cheap Hollywood gimmicks you seen in movies rather than HBO/Showtime productions. It was just terrible, I took the night king in. The fact that the whole defense was almost pointless, needlessly putting himself in danger.

There was no surprising game of thrones factor this season. No surprise, no deep hurt. Just kill off this character, destroy everything, kill of these couple characters , etc etc.


This is a horrible finish. Nobody predicted anything like this because this was probably the worst scenarios.


Lannisters killed by rubble? Dany going from logical to insane in 2 episodes. You're talking about a fanatasy novel that was dark and prided itself

 

[ntnskrds]

IM guess you never read the books.

They literally filled it up with cheap Hollywood gimmicks you seen in movies rather than HBO/Showtime productions. It was just terrible, I took the night king in. The fact that the whole defense was almost pointless, needlessly putting himself in danger.

There was no surprising game of thrones factor this season. No surprise, no deep hurt. Just kill off this character, destroy everything, kill of these couple characters , etc etc.


This is a horrible finish. Nobody predicted anything like this because this was probably the worst scenarios.


Lannisters killed by rubble? Dany going from logical to insane in 2 episodes. You're talking about a fanatasy novel that was dark and prided itself

Oh please .... Jamie went from killing his cousin to jumping in the bear pit to save Brien in just 2 episodes ... Nobody complained ... Truth is that 'character development' has never been as great as people are making it to be.

Which is absolutely fine by me ... I watch it for the drama ...

 

[sunapple]

Oh please .... Jamie went from killing his cousin to jumping in the bear pit to save Brien in just 2 episodes ... Nobody complained ... Truth is that 'character development' has never been as great as people are making it to be.

I would like to reiterate that the books do have amazing character development. I'm assuming you were arguing against that, that you assumed the show was still following the books when Jamie killed his cousin, but in reality that never happened and people did in fact complain.

It was however less obvious back then, compared to now where the books are no longer the foundation of the story and, well, everyone is complaining.

 

[yaxomoxay]

Lannisters killed by rubble? Dany going from logical to insane in 2 episodes. You're talking about a fanatasy novel that was dark and prided itself

This reminds me when someone finds that the neighbor is a serial killer or a terrorist. "I could've never imagined it! He was such a nice guy," when there have been many clues during the year. Yes, she got triggered in a couple episodes, but she wasn't the most tranquil of ladies to begin with.

 

[Bug-Creator]

Lannisters killed by rubble?

Why not? Sh## happens, Emperor Barbarossa drowned and history took a turn....

 

[vrDrew]

I hate to say this, but I've been left with a real "meh" feeling after the first five episodes.

Not that there wasn't some truly impressive action. But has there been one real surprise here? I mean, huh, they burned Varys. And Jorah Mormont and Theon Greyjoy died.

But there simply hasn't been much in the way of edge-of-your seat excitement so far. Not like I remember with Breaking Bad or even the last season of The Sopranos. We say goodbye to a whole lot of characters (Sam Tarley, Tormund Giantsbane, Brienne of Tarth) and we'll probably never see them again. Never mind about Hot Pie or the Sand Snakes. And what about the Iron Bank of Braavos? Wanna lay odds that whole massive debt thing will be conveniently ignored in the Finale?

With Breaking Bad, especially, there was a real story arc. Like the way they brought back Badger and Skinny Pete to play an important role.

Part of the whole appeal of the GoT universe is that its just so wide. But when they need to bring the story to some sort of conclusion, they end up trashing a lot of the little details that made it such a fascinating show to begin with.

 

[ritmomundo]

Lannisters killed by rubble?

Maybe it's fitting actually for Game of Thrones to deny bloodthirsty fans the brutal death for Cersei (and Jaime) we hoped for.
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And what about the Iron Bank of Braavos? Wanna lay odds that whole massive debt thing will be conveniently ignored in the Finale?

I could be wrong, but weren't all debts settled last season?

Edit: Yep, in the season 7 finale, Tycho Nestoris of the Iron Bank complements Cersei on her quick and full repayment and agrees to fund her war (ie, with the Golden Company). Seems the Iron Bank profited greatly from the slave trade in Essos, which Dany had a hand in abolishing, so they're also interested in seeing Cersei win.

 

[Number-Six]

Wanna lay odds that whole massive debt thing will be conveniently ignored in the Finale?
.

As far as i understand it, that caravan of gold that escaped dragonfire last season was used to settle the debt and pay for the golden company.

 

[loon3y]

This reminds me when someone finds that the neighbor is a serial killer or a terrorist. "I could've never imagined it! He was such a nice guy," when there have been many clues during the year. Yes, she got triggered in a couple episodes, but she wasn't the most tranquil of ladies to begin with.

Again I’m more surprised and disappointed because it’s a writers cop out.


The targareyens always practiced incest but they only had s couple of mad monarchs.


So two consecutive monarchs being mad? Nah that isn’t staying true to game of thrones/song of ice and fire (in my opinion who really knows).


World leaders don’t flip like that, let alone regular people. The “mad” dictators you hear about are the few compared to so many throughout history.

It’s just not game of thrones, but again Martin wasn’t necessarily part of it.

 

[loon3y]

Oh please .... Jamie went from killing his cousin to jumping in the bear pit to save Brien in just 2 episodes ... Nobody complained ... Truth is that 'character development' has never been as great as people are making it to be.

Which is absolutely fine by me ... I watch it for the drama ...

That part was never in the books.

But character development is there in the books with a bit of intuition and common sense. For example you sand snakes how they’re introduced you assume they’re cunning , Street smart and aren’t squares just even from the shows perspective.

The book, obviously being a book has so much more side stories and back stories.

The books take on dorne , Marcella, and the dorne princess and the Marcella’s Kings guard was one of my favorite side stories.


It’s the reality of the show business D&D wanted to wrap it up and prepare for their next step of their career with Disney and Star Wars. Pretty despicable in my opinion.

 

[NickName99]

I’m trying to set my expectations low for the finale. They’ve wasted years of character development in the past few episodes. Jaimie’s character arc was tossed in the dustbin. Brienne was a blubbering, sobbing idiot. Tyrion was no longer smart. The dragon queen murdered thousands of civilians and children because she was sad and upset. Jon Snow is an idiot who doesn’t want anything.

I can only hope George R R Martin does better eventually. I always found his writing pretty cringeworthy, but at least he’s generally true to his characters.

 

[Roller]

I wouldn't be quite so hasty to dismiss it. The show doesn't cost money, it makes it - I'd imagine it's as close to a license to print money anyone at HBO could hope for... if they see there's unprecedented demand to do it, and there's money to be made, it will be done. Maybe not right away, but they won't leave money on the table. Perhaps after they find out how the first spin off shows do so they can choose what to invest in, more spinoff series (if successful) or a remake (soft reboot?) of S7/8 (if not so successful). I'm imagining even 1-2 million signatures might not swing it though, it would probably have to be approaching half the viewership figures (so more like 4-6M) to convince them the demand is there.

HBO makes money by selling subscriptions, as well as by licensing shows worldwide. They'd have to be certain that these would generate enough continued or added income to cover production costs and make a handsome profit, which is highly unlikely. Also, there's no guarantee that current viewers, some of whom subscribe just to watch GoT, would all pony up.

Securing the services of the cast members would be even harder, since many of them are already contractually tied to other projects, even if they were interested in continuing with GoT. Some characters have been played by two actors during the series' run (Daario Naharis and Myrcella Baratheon come to mind), but imagine substituting for the principals (Jon, Dany, Cersei, and so on).

And, despite apparent dissatisfaction with the final season, episode viewership keeps going up. I suspect that Sunday night's finale will continue the trend. Even the people who don't like what D&D have done will tune in to see what happens. It's possible that the petition will affect what HBO does with the prequels or possibly lessen D&D's ability to successfully pitch other ideas, but only time will tell.
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Regarding that last sentence, I highly doubt he’s planning to do the opposite, but rather he will tell the story in a way that makes perfect sense. Those books are going to sell quite well I think lol.

The petition is just to reach D&D with the criticism, which by now surely must’ve worked. Can’t change what’s already been done though, just deal with it.

The last sentence was intended to be sarcastic...

 

[sunapple]

The last sentence was intended to be sarcastic...

Funny thing is, it has been suggested before, non-ironically.

 

[Falhófnir]

HBO makes money by selling subscriptions, as well as by licensing shows worldwide. They'd have to be certain that these would generate enough continued or added income to cover production costs and make a handsome profit, which is highly unlikely. Also, there's no guarantee that current viewers, some of whom subscribe just to watch GoT, would all pony up.

Securing the services of the cast members would be even harder, since many of them are already contractually tied to other projects, even if they were interested in continuing with GoT. Some characters have been played by two actors during the series' run (Daario Naharis and Myrcella Baratheon come to mind), but imagine substituting for the principals (Jon, Dany, Cersei, and so on).

And, despite apparent dissatisfaction with the final season, episode viewership keeps going up. I suspect that Sunday night's finale will continue the trend. Even the people who don't like what D&D have done will tune in to see what happens. It's possible that the petition will affect what HBO does with the prequels or possibly lessen D&D's ability to successfully pitch other ideas, but only time will tell.

True to say the cash is key, which is why I think you'd need several million signatories to the petition for HBO to even begin to consider it. I'm assuming you can take it that people signing are basically saying to HBO, if you make it, we'll watch it. If there's at least 5M then assuming the below, I think it starts to look not just viable but potentially quite attractive.

When I think of 'remaking it' my assumption would actually be more that they created an extended 'directors cut' version, rather than start from scratch. They take the material they've got, and rework it and add to it. most of what is missing is the sort of relatively easy sequences where characters are just talking to each other (often done whilst they are travelling together, so you can address the teleporting criticism at the same time). Film a few sequences of Dany talking about how she feels - particularly to Missandei and Jorah if they are meant to be the crutches that hold her up and her 'snapping' is linked to their loss. Rework Littlefinger and Varys' endings to be truer to themselves. Have Jon Snow give Ghost an emotional farewell. At least explain Tyrion's failings as hand (I'm willing to believe mental exhaustion, but I want to see him talking to someone about it).

Basically all just filling in the gaps, and probably reworking the material to cover full 10 episode seasons. The battle of Winterfell could easily go across 2 hour long episodes rather than one 85 minute one, with a break at a critical point, perhaps like Daenerys failing to burn the NK. Maybe this would require some more expensive shoots, but not necessarily, as they probably have more footage filmed than they used anyway. The big financial constraint was the CGI, without having to worry so much about that, this could be a relatively cheap way of squeezing more money out of the series, and of course film studios do this all the time, sometimes several times for a single film!

 

[Roller]

True to say the cash is key, which is why I think you'd need several million signatories to the petition for HBO to even begin to consider it. I'm assuming you can take it that people signing are basically saying to HBO, if you make it, we'll watch it. If there's at least 5M then assuming the below, I think it starts to look not just viable but potentially quite attractive.

When I think of 'remaking it' my assumption would actually be more that they created an extended 'directors cut' version, rather than start from scratch. They take the material they've got, and rework it and add to it. most of what is missing is the sort of relatively easy sequences where characters are just talking to each other (often done whilst they are travelling together, so you can address the teleporting criticism at the same time). Film a few sequences of Dany talking about how she feels - particularly to Missandei and Jorah if they are meant to be the crutches that hold her up and her 'snapping' is linked to their loss. Rework Littlefinger and Varys' endings to be truer to themselves. Have Jon Snow give Ghost an emotional farewell. At least explain Tyrion's failings as hand (I'm willing to believe mental exhaustion, but I want to see him talking to someone about it).

Basically all just filling in the gaps, and probably reworking the material to cover full 10 episode seasons. The battle of Winterfell could easily go across 2 hour long episodes rather than one 85 minute one, with a break at a critical point, perhaps like Daenerys failing to burn the NK. Maybe this would require some more expensive shoots, but not necessarily, as they probably have more footage filmed than they used anyway. The big financial constraint was the CGI, without having to worry so much about that, this could be a relatively cheap way of squeezing more money out of the series, and of course film studios do this all the time, sometimes several times for a single film!

I just read an explanatory post by the petition's creator — it's nicely written and balanced. I have no doubt that he'll exceed the 1 million threshold this weekend. Interestingly, some people claim that GoT has been going downhill since season three, but I don't recall reading this many complaints during seasons 4-6. I think it's easy to lose sight of how much better GoT is than most other TV offerings these days, S8 flaws notwithstanding.

 

[zmunkz]

This is a horrible finish. Nobody predicted anything like this because this was probably the worst scenarios.

Well, sort of. Lots of people predicted this. The Mad Queen outcome has been in circulation for years. We didn’t expect it because it was such a bland and predictable way to force conflict/resolution between Dany and Jon. We (or at least, I) were convinced it was a subversion to keep us from seeing the real hand about to be played. As @Huntn said, it turned into an expectation problem. Epic fantasy is known for the big finish that pays off on many massive / developed arcs, and that’s what we were waiting for. The excitement of seeing all the subversions give way to the BIG PICTURE. When it turned out there was nothing more to it than the obvious signaling had indicated, it was big middle finger to many of us.

I think there is no chance of a “remake.” Besides which, if the writing team had the experience to stick a landing for this kind of epic, they would have. What are they going to do now? They obviously didn’t have good answers for the NK’s symbology, for instance, or the story around him converting children, or the history of how they negotiated to send him north last time before the wall was built, or any of that “under the iceberg” worldbuild a proper epic fantasy writer should have. Without that kind of material, how could they possibly intertwine the arcs to play off each other for a big finish?

It’s sad. I’d really be curious what GRRM had told them. In other words, how much of this was his ending, and how much was them trying to hit the beats he’d only mentioned.

 

[Huntn]

Well, sort of. Lots of people predicted this. The Mad Queen outcome has been in circulation for years. We didn’t expect it because it was such a bland and predictable way to force conflict/resolution between Dany and Jon. We (or at least, I) were convinced it was a subversion to keep us from seeing the real hand about to be played. As @Huntn said, it turned into an expectation problem. Epic fantasy is known for the big finish that pays off on many massive / developed arcs, and that’s what we were waiting for. The excitement of seeing all the subversions give way to the BIG PICTURE. When it turned out there was nothing more to it than the obvious signaling had indicated, it was big middle finger to many of us.

I think there is no chance of a “remake.” Besides which, if the writing team had the experience to stick a landing for this kind of epic, they would have. What are they going to do now? They obviously didn’t have good answers for the NK’s symbology, for instance, or the story around him converting children, or the history of how they negotiated to send him north last time before the wall was built, or any of that “under the iceberg” worldbuild a proper epic fantasy writer should have. Without that kind of material, how could they possibly intertwine the arcs to play off each other for a big finish?

It’s sad. I’d really be curious what GRRM had told them. In other words, how much of this was his ending, and how much was them trying to hit the beats he’d only mentioned.

Agreed. This was supposed to be epic, but the majority were left with a bad taste in their mouths. They get one more shot at surprising us tomorrow night.
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I’m trying to set my expectations low for the finale. They’ve wasted years of character development in the past few episodes. Jaimie’s character arc was tossed in the dustbin. Brienne was a blubbering, sobbing idiot. Tyrion was no longer smart. The dragon queen murdered thousands of civilians and children because she was sad and upset. Jon Snow is an idiot who doesn’t want anything.

I can only hope George R R Martin does better eventually. I always found his writing pretty cringeworthy, but at least he’s generally true to his characters.

View attachment 837639

I smiled at everything you said except cringeworthy writing. This has been one of the best series I have ever read, and it seems to have the following to justify my feelings.

 

[Blaze4G]

Seems like Bran is going to end up being king of the 7 kingdoms.

 

[Shanghaichica]

Seems like Bran is going to end up being king of the 7 kingdoms.

Well that’s better than Sansa.

 

[NickName99]

Agreed. This was supposed to be epic, but the majority were left with a bad taste in their mouths. They get one more shot at surprising us tomorrow night.
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I smiled at everything you said except cringeworthy writing. This has been one of the best series I have ever read, and it seems to have the following to justify my feelings.

He’s a brilliant storyteller, but his prose is awful. So many unnecessary adverbs, repeated goofy cliches, comic book characters, no art or poetry, no empathy or soul. I love his stories, but it’s difficult to read them after reading anything of any literary value.

 

[Huntn]

He’s a brilliant storyteller, but his prose is awful. So many unnecessary adverbs, repeated goofy cliches, comic book characters, no art or poetry, no empathy or soul. I love his stories, but it’s difficult to read them after reading anything of any literary value.

Well, I like many of the literary classics too from the early to mid 20th century. Easy to please?