Game of Thrones (HBO)

[yaxomoxay]

they prioritised spectacle over decent writing and characterisation.

She claimed and thought that she was ready for absolute power. She wasn't.
She claimed and thought that she would've been absolutely loved. She wasn't.
She claimed and thought that she had extreme power of life and death. She did.

The three elements above explain the "snap" that built up over a series of years.

There is no spectacle in what happened (ok, the fire...), only extreme sadness and pain.

 

[smallcoffee]

Random thought, but does Bronn still have any role? His threat/tasks is moot now that Cersei is gone and only Tyrion lives of the brothers. I hope that whole little thread wasn’t just for one scene of tension.

I’m expecting it was tension unless he comes and somehow saves Tyrion.

 

[th0masp]

In the books at least, we're given a date system: 'years AC' - which is years after Aegon's conquest which is taken as the start of the current era. GoT starts in 298AC and Joffrey's wedding is the first day of 300AC. I'm not aware of any specific dates given after this, I assume it's probably been a good 6-12 months since then (AFFC and ADWD run largely congruously) so ~3 years up to the end of ADWD. As the show condenses and simplifies a lot it's difficult to say whether this works for it too.

Joffrey's wedding is around the half point of the show, so perhaps 5-6 years all in for the show? That might actually work considering all the travelling involved and the usual lifespan of people in the middle ages. Would explain how the child actors are now young adults, some looking much older than in the early seasons.

 

[Falhófnir]

Random thought, but does Bronn still have any role? His threat/tasks is moot now that Cersei is gone and only Tyrion lives of the brothers. I hope that whole little thread wasn’t just for one scene of tension.

Apparently HBO insisted he be given more screen time as he's inexplicably popular... tbh I can't say I've ever really cared for his character on the show and he's a very minor character in the novels.

Another bit that was SO MUCH better in the books. Not to mention the fact that Catlyn wasn't actually killed. Not shoddy writing, and perhaps THE pivotal point of the plot.

Varys was definitely a far more complicated character in the books. I came to really like him there, while he was never truly a main character in the show. I hated that she killed him. I'd hoped he and Tyrion could continue working together.

Ultimately I think as best we can tell yet his motivation in either continuity is desiring the best ruler for the Kingdom, though it might still prove to be (in the books) that he desires greater personal power but knows he has no route to the throne himself so he seeks to put his Targaryen pretender (real or not) there while he pulls the strings almost unopposed.

Almost every issue then, I know there's more.

Which makes total sense given the fact that they had little time to tell the story. Important plot and storytelling was dumbed down and simplified or even left out. Put season 8 in season 1-6 sort of pacing and you'll get 20 episodes over two seasons, including all characterization and what not that's missing right now.

We'll have to wait on the books and even the final episode, but I don't agree here. Given more time, the 'snap' could have made much more sense. That's why I'm putting this with the pacing problems.

Running out of source material for season 7 and 8 is of course the biggest issue by far, D&D are not capable of writing to the same level as GRRM does, let alone finishing a story he hasn't even worked out yet because it's so complicated.

From what I've read and know, I don't believe Dany was ever meant to sit on the Iron Throne (because someone else is). Whether that's accomplished through snapping or simply being killed or both, we'll have to find out. Final episode hasn't aired yet, so I can't really add much more to this.

To the bolded, yes but the show bosses also made the decision to only run to 8 seasons (HBO offered 10) and they also made the decision for shorter seasons to allow more money per episode, for more fancy CGI shots... ergo the brevity of the wrap-up is still a conscious fault on the part of the show bosses. Ultimately I feel like they just didn't want to put the effort in so they hoped they could throw dramatic dragon battles and Dothraki flaming swords blinking out and burning city scenes in our faces to make up for it.

They have left a lot of Daenerys' character on the cutting room floor from the books, maybe the impression I get of her from the books comes through stronger so I'm ignoring parts of the show, or even attributing meaning from the books to scenes that were different or not meant to mean what I think they did. Having said that, I would again say Daenerys' whole character arc is as a saviour of the weak and wretched and suppressed - it would make sense for her to clash with Tyrion, for e.g. over killing Cersei after she surrendered. But not going totally off the deep end to the point she's killing people she has always defended. She has little time or sympathy for great lords, not people running scared for their lives in the streets. And no I don't think she was ever meant to sit on the throne either, but I do still think the character has been butchered to fit an ending and this leaves a bad taste in the mouth, which, at the end of the day isn't what you really want for a character you've set up to have people root for the entire series.

She claimed and thought that she was ready for absolute power. She wasn't.
She claimed and thought that she would've been absolutely loved. She wasn't.
She claimed and thought that she had extreme power of life and death. She did.

The three elements above explain the "snap" that built up over a series of years.

There is no spectacle in what happened (ok, the fire...), only extreme sadness and pain.

She's been set on a journey to absolute power, has experienced it in Essos, and came out of it not murdering civilians.

Now there's potentially a flicker of a meaningful reason. She did very much revel in being loved by the people, and if the people loved Jon she could have become envious of that and this could have at least lit the fuse. A shame then this wasn't explored beyond a single throwaway line.

No spectacle? Like the entire episode wasn't just relatively empty spectacle interspersed with varying degrees of character arc conclusion (from the pretty stupid to the relatively fitting?)

 

[Krayzkat]

I wonder if Varys hadn’t betrayed her (because he thought she would become the mad queen), would she have finally snapped and become the mad queen?

Was Varys the straw that broke the camels back?

 

[Number-Six]

I love all the memes that have been made this week

especially this one:

https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/a5MvDxg_700bwp.webp

 

[trillionaire]

She claimed and thought that she was ready for absolute power. She wasn't.
She claimed and thought that she would've been absolutely loved. She wasn't.
She claimed and thought that she had extreme power of life and death. She did.

The three elements above explain the "snap" that built up over a series of years.

There is no spectacle in what happened (ok, the fire...), only extreme sadness and pain.

Unfortunately, a lot of people don't see it that way, and I am one of those people. Just before this, when Tyrion asked her to, she acknowledged that she would stand down if the bells were sounded. That's not a sign of madness, that's a sign of mercy and the type of character we had been shown during the entire series.

Had she flied up to the Red Keep and just burned down Cersei then I doubt people would have had an issue, but this was totally unwarranted for her character. I can't agree that there was a buildup to this, because it feels like her character underwent a sudden change in the span of a few episodes. Maybe in the books it was foreshadowed better, but not in the show.

Just looking at Emilia Clarke's reaction when asked about her thoughts on the finale is telling enough. Same with the rest of the cast for that matter.

 

[Number-Six]

Unfortunately, a lot of people don't see it that way, and I am one of those people. Just before this, when Tyrion asked her to, she acknowledged that she would stand down if the bells were sounded. That's not a sign of madness, that's a sign of mercy and the type of character we had been shown during the entire series.

Had she flied up to the Red Keep and just burned down Cersei then I doubt people would have had an issue, but this was totally unwarranted for her character. I can't agree that there was a buildup to this, because it feels like her character underwent a sudden change in the span of a few episodes. Maybe in the books it was foreshadowed better, but not in the show.

Just looking at Emilia Clarke's reaction when asked about her thoughts on the finale is telling enough. Same with the rest of the cast for that matter.

No she didn't, she nodded to the soldier wordlessly.

 

[smallcoffee]

Unfortunately, a lot of people don't see it that way, and I am one of those people. Just before this, when Tyrion asked her to, she acknowledged that she would stand down if the bells were sounded. That's not a sign of madness, that's a sign of mercy and the type of character we had been shown during the entire series.

Had she flied up to the Red Keep and just burned down Cersei then I doubt people would have had an issue, but this was totally unwarranted for her character. I can't agree that there was a buildup to this, because it feels like her character underwent a sudden change in the span of a few episodes. Maybe in the books it was foreshadowed better, but not in the show.

Just looking at Emilia Clarke's reaction when asked about her thoughts on the finale is telling enough. Same with the rest of the cast for that matter.

But then she wouldn’t have instilled fear. That was the point. I rewatched the episode last night kind of fast forwarding to some points and you can see, in the show, she’s wrestling with the decision as to what she should do. I can understand that the haste of the episodes made her decision a little wonky, but I don’t see her making this decision as something that’s is abrupt or out of character. But she wrestlers with “love or fear” and chose fear because everybody loves Jon and Varys already betrayed her so everybody knows Jon is also a Targaryen.
[doublepost=1557936602][/doublepost]I actually think the worst part of the whole season/last season is the Golden Company. They were portrayed very poorly

 

[Huntn]

But then she wouldn’t have instilled fear. That was the point. I rewatched the episode last night kind of fast forwarding to some points and you can see, in the show, she’s wrestling with the decision as to what she should do. I can understand that the haste of the episodes made her decision a little wonky, but I don’t see her making this decision as something that’s is abrupt or out of character. But she wrestlers with “love or fear” and chose fear because everybody loves Jon and Varys already betrayed her so everybody knows Jon is also a Targaryen.
[doublepost=1557936602][/doublepost]I actually think the worst part of the whole season/last season is the Golden Company. They were portrayed very poorly

The portrayal was not so many people who get wiped by a dragon in 6 seconds.
[doublepost=1557945552][/doublepost]

I wonder if Varys hadn’t betrayed her (because he thought she would become the mad queen), would she have finally snapped and become the mad queen?

Was Varys the straw that broke the camels back?

Seeing everyone rally around Jon, then Jon calling her his Queen, and she responding is that all I am to you? was the last straw.

 

[smallcoffee]

https://i.redd.it/546z4ubq3dy21.jpg

 

[Roller]

Just looking at Emilia Clarke's reaction when asked about her thoughts on the finale is telling enough. Same with the rest of the cast for that matter.

I've read that some principal cast members didn't want to go beyond season 8 and, despite fame and fortune, are happy to move on with their careers regardless of whether they're satisfied with the ending. Aside from all the location shooting, many GoT scenes, especially battle sequences, were arduous for the actors, and eight years is a long time to be mostly tied to one character. A few, including Emilia Clarke and Peter Dinklage, were able to play other roles during GoT's run, but they're still mostly identified with their GoT parts. TBH, much as I've enjoyed the show, I'm ready for it to end.

 

[smallcoffee]

Another good post talking about Dany’a messiah complex and there was an excellent post about how they even lured viewers into it (people in real life calling themselves mother of dragons or naming their children afternoon her or w/e). This is the essence of an amazing show. So good that we were all blinded.

https://www.reddit.com/r/gameofthro...ers_dany_never_cared_about_ruling_peacefully/

 

[yaxomoxay]

I've read that some principal cast members didn't want to go beyond season 8 and, despite fame and fortune, are happy to move on with their careers regardless of whether they're satisfied with the ending. Aside from all the location shooting, many GoT scenes, especially battle sequences, were arduous for the actors, and eight years is a long time to be mostly tied to one character. A few, including Emilia Clarke and Peter Dinklage, were able to play other roles during GoT's run, but they're still mostly identified with their GoT parts. TBH, much as I've enjoyed the show, I'm ready for it to end.

Agreed. Many people don't realize how actually hard is to make a movie or a TV series (esp. a TV series that is basically 5-10 movies). Not defending the Hollywood type which I actually loathe, but making a movie/series is not just showing in front of a camera, read a few lines and go home.

 

[Martyimac]

I am loving that even on a Mac centric forum, GoT has such a following. Winter is here. Now what?

 

[trillionaire]

No she didn't, she nodded to the soldier wordlessly.

I get that, but to me it looked like an acknowledgement. If she was planning something different then why did she ignore Tyrion's betrayal. Another part that didn't make sense. Tyrion released Jamie the night before, surely she found out about that, but the next morning Tyrion is fine and dandy standing with the army. It's a little inconsistent when in one instance she's being a mad tyrant and then a second later she shows mercy. Either that or the whole Tyrion/Jamie thing was not addressed at all, which is even worse.
[doublepost=1558017810][/doublepost]

But then she wouldn’t have instilled fear. That was the point. I rewatched the episode last night kind of fast forwarding to some points and you can see, in the show, she’s wrestling with the decision as to what she should do. I can understand that the haste of the episodes made her decision a little wonky, but I don’t see her making this decision as something that’s is abrupt or out of character. But she wrestlers with “love or fear” and chose fear because everybody loves Jon and Varys already betrayed her so everybody knows Jon is also a Targaryen.
[doublepost=1557936602][/doublepost]I actually think the worst part of the whole season/last season is the Golden Company. They were portrayed very poorly

I understand that, but it's just not convincing for me with regard to her character. The way she instilled fear before was still very calculated. She wouldn't kill everyone, she just made a statement. This was just madness, which was only meant to tie in to her being a full-fledged Targaryen, but then why the different character in the seasons before?

Apart from that, Jon is still alive and these actions will just push everyone further toward him being their preference. There's just no strategy to it and that was present in her actions before. I'm not saying she was perfect, but she was calculated and strategic, this was just cold and stupid, which doesn't match the character I saw in previous seasons.

That's just my take. I realize not everyone will see it that way.

 

[smallcoffee]

I get that, but to me it looked like an acknowledgement. If she was planning something different then why did she ignore Tyrion's betrayal. Another part that didn't make sense. Tyrion released Jamie the night before, surely she found out about that, but the next morning Tyrion is fine and dandy standing with the army. It's a little inconsistent when in one instance she's being a mad tyrant and then a second later she shows mercy. Either that or the whole Tyrion/Jamie thing was not addressed at all, which is even worse.
[doublepost=1558017810][/doublepost]

I understand that, but it's just not convincing for me with regard to her character. The way she instilled fear before was still very calculated. She wouldn't kill everyone, she just made a statement. This was just madness, which was only meant to tie in to her being a full-fledged Targaryen, but then why the different character in the seasons before?

Apart from that, Jon is still alive and these actions will just push everyone further toward him being their preference. There's just no strategy to it and that was present in her actions before. I'm not saying she was perfect, but she was calculated and strategic, this was just cold and stupid, which doesn't match the character I saw in previous seasons.

That's just my take. I realize not everyone will see it that way.

(All below is my opinion )

Maybe she was, but I never had the impression she was calculating and strategic. She was always passionate, willful, destined, and somewhat impulsive (like, for example, randomly getting pissed and flying away on dragons to go burn things). Her advisors were time and time again sitting at the foot of the throne begging her not to, or to take certain actions.

I also didn’t view her attack on King’s Landing as cold and stupid - it was passion and fear, or even more appropriately, strategic. If she doesn’t instill fear then she couldn’t possibly rule Westeros, especially when she knows that Jon won’t love her, Varys betrayed her and told everybody about Jon, and Sansa already basically saying we won’t bend the knee.

I would go back to what I said earlier - the show will be better binged watch because time has changed how we perceived Dany - with having years from start to finish.

 

[th0masp]

In case the very last episode turns out in line with what has been aired of S8 so far I wonder if the GoT brand will come out of this public stoning unscathed or if the prequels and spinoffs will have a bad start due to the main series' faults.

Watching S2 now for a little throwback and boy is it better or what, like a golden era... Apart from the more compelling narrative they even knew how to do night shoots of battles so that you can actually ...like see what's going on. A-mazing!

edit: I hadn't seen this since it originally aired. And now I no longer feel bad for Theon, seeing what suffering he caused. Ramsay should have cut off some more bits!

 

[Huntn]

In case the very last episode turns out in line with what has been aired of S8 so far I wonder if the GoT brand will come out of this public stoning unscathed or if the prequels and spinoffs will have a bad start due to the main series' faults.

Watching S2 now for a little throwback and boy is it better or what, like a golden era... Apart from the more compelling narrative they even knew how to do night shoots of battles so that you can actually ...like see what's going on. A-mazing!

edit: I hadn't seen this since it originally aired. And now I no longer feel bad for Theon, seeing what suffering he caused. Ramsay should have cut off some more bits!

But Ramsay was more of a bastard than Theon! I wonder how satisfied the dogs were with The Master for Lunch entree.

 

[ritmomundo]

I have hope for the finale. GRRM provided the ending to D&D, and they filled in the blanks leading up to it (with mediocre results over the last 2 seasons), but I imagine the majority of this last episode will be GRRM's vision of the end.

 

[sunapple]

I have hope for the finale. GRRM provided the ending to D&D, and they filled in the blanks leading up to it (with mediocre results over the last 2 seasons), but I imagine the majority of this last episode will be GRRM's vision of the end.

I started reading A Game of Thrones, saw for the first time how the books are written. The first scenes of the first episode on TV are almost 1:1 what you read in the books, which is awesome (I know it will deviate later). Point is though, GRRM providing some bullet points does not equal what made the first seasons so good. D&D are no writers and the devil is in the details, especially for the finale.

 

[Huntn]

I started reading A Game of Thrones, saw for the first time how the books are written. The first scenes of the first episode on TV are almost 1:1 what you read in the books, which is awesome (I know it will deviate later). Point is though, GRRM providing some bullet points does not equal what made the first seasons so good. D&D are no writers and the devil is in the details, especially for the finale.

Season 1 was a close approximation of Book 1: Game of Thrones. I was very happy with Season 1. Season 2 was when they started telling the story in outline mode.

 

[th0masp]

But Ramsay was more of a bastard than Theon! I wonder how satisfied the dogs were with The Master for Lunch entree.

True, but just the right therapy to straighten Theon out, I think I'll cheer him on during my rewatch.

 

[Roller]

I find it hilarious that, as of this morning, more than 773,000 people have signed an online petition demanding that HBO remake season 8. No matter what you think of the writing, the likelihood of that happening is, well, zero. Does anyone really expect the network to spend 10 or 15 million dollars an episode, not to mention securing the services of the cast, none of whom would probably agree? It'd make more sense to ask HBO to do another season resurrecting all the dead (or mostly dead) characters.

Even if it's just venting frustration, it reminds me of the SNL skit with William Shatner when he tells fans at a Star Trek convention "I mean, for crying out loud, it's just a TV show!"

For book readers, I suppose that this serves as a warning and guide for GRRM if he ever finishes the last two volumes. Whatever D&D wrote in season 8, he should just do the opposite.

 

[sunapple]

I find it hilarious that, as of this morning, more than 773,000 people have signed an online petition demanding that HBO remake season 8. No matter what you think of the writing, the likelihood of that happening is, well, zero. Does anyone really expect the network to spend 10 or 15 million dollars an episode, not to mention securing the services of the cast, none of whom would probably agree? It'd make more sense to ask HBO to do another season resurrecting all the dead (or mostly dead) characters.

Even if it's just venting frustration, it reminds me of the SNL skit with William Shatner when he tells fans at a Star Trek convention "I mean, for crying out loud, it's just a TV show!"

For book readers, I suppose that this serves as a warning and guide for GRRM if he ever finishes the last two volumes. Whatever D&D wrote in season 8, he should just do the opposite.

Regarding that last sentence, I highly doubt he’s planning to do the opposite, but rather he will tell the story in a way that makes perfect sense. Those books are going to sell quite well I think lol.

The petition is just to reach D&D with the criticism, which by now surely must’ve worked. Can’t change what’s already been done though, just deal with it.