When the Mountain's helmet came off i couldn't help thinking off Darth Vader
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Game of Thrones (HBO)
- Thread starter Huntn
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
As an episode of war it was brilliantly done. As the second to the last episode of the series it was predictable/banal.
PS- all the men excluding The Hound were moronic in this episode
PS- all the men excluding The Hound were moronic in this episode
Last edited:
My disappointment with the episode wasn’t with the major plot points. Rather it was just an abundance of little things that add up to feeling like the showrunners stopped caring about quality and detail.
I’m totally fine with where everything ended up. I’m just upset at the sloppy way they got there.
I always felt Dany was a bit of a villain, and I’m glad the show took it there - to full berserk-mode Mad Queen. It was always hidden there, we saw it surface several times, and I’ve mentioned it here. But for her to flip a switch into abject insanity with a total disregard for innocent life over the span of an episode was sloppy. The writers just didn’t do a good job of building it up effectively.
Jaime going back to Cersei wasn’t a shocker to me. His character development wasn’t undone. His tryst with Brienne just helped him realize who he was and who he wanted to be with. I’m glad he and Cersei died together. Their death however felt incredibly lazy. Trapped and squished. Maybe it’s what they deserved. Or maybe they deserved a more satisfying death. I don’t know.
Jon, Grey Worm and their army stomping through Kings Landing as if invincible was laughable. For all they were built up to be, the Golden Company giving up as easily as they did was a letdown. Yes they were overpowered, but it wasn’t portrayed well. Harry Strickland was underused (or not at all).
Qyburn’s scorpions were demolished without one even being fired (except the first one by Euron). Were they all unmanned? I’m fine with Drogon taking them out, but it was like they didn’t even try to mount a defense (or offense). But some will say, “well yeah, he’s a dragon” or "it happened so fast" so, whatever. And why wouldn't they have any on the walls around the Red Keep?
Also, the ease with which Dany was able to destroy them makes Rhaegal’s death seem a bit ridiculous in hindsight.
The Clegane showdown was great. I honestly couldn’t be happier it finally happened. And The Mountain being unkillable was just insane, like Frankenstein’s monster. Dagger to the head? Amazing. But The Hound isn’t invincible. He was pounded on, head smashed in, eyes gouged, yet he was practically unaffected.
Arya running through King’s Landing was cinematically fantastic. You could feel the terror and carnage around her. And I’ll even accept her survival; she’s agile, smart and knew where and when to take cover. But conveniently seeing a lone white horse when there are no survivors to be seen anywhere and riding off into the horizon? Eye roll.
Like I said, I’m happy with where the episode ended up. I’m okay with all the deaths, even though some weren’t satisfactory, that’s fine. Just the way they got there, the little things, the lack of attention to detail, the lazy and sloppy writing, all culminated in a disappointing penultimate episode for me.
I’m totally fine with where everything ended up. I’m just upset at the sloppy way they got there.
I always felt Dany was a bit of a villain, and I’m glad the show took it there - to full berserk-mode Mad Queen. It was always hidden there, we saw it surface several times, and I’ve mentioned it here. But for her to flip a switch into abject insanity with a total disregard for innocent life over the span of an episode was sloppy. The writers just didn’t do a good job of building it up effectively.
Jaime going back to Cersei wasn’t a shocker to me. His character development wasn’t undone. His tryst with Brienne just helped him realize who he was and who he wanted to be with. I’m glad he and Cersei died together. Their death however felt incredibly lazy. Trapped and squished. Maybe it’s what they deserved. Or maybe they deserved a more satisfying death. I don’t know.
Jon, Grey Worm and their army stomping through Kings Landing as if invincible was laughable. For all they were built up to be, the Golden Company giving up as easily as they did was a letdown. Yes they were overpowered, but it wasn’t portrayed well. Harry Strickland was underused (or not at all).
Qyburn’s scorpions were demolished without one even being fired (except the first one by Euron). Were they all unmanned? I’m fine with Drogon taking them out, but it was like they didn’t even try to mount a defense (or offense). But some will say, “well yeah, he’s a dragon” or "it happened so fast" so, whatever. And why wouldn't they have any on the walls around the Red Keep?
Also, the ease with which Dany was able to destroy them makes Rhaegal’s death seem a bit ridiculous in hindsight.
The Clegane showdown was great. I honestly couldn’t be happier it finally happened. And The Mountain being unkillable was just insane, like Frankenstein’s monster. Dagger to the head? Amazing. But The Hound isn’t invincible. He was pounded on, head smashed in, eyes gouged, yet he was practically unaffected.
Arya running through King’s Landing was cinematically fantastic. You could feel the terror and carnage around her. And I’ll even accept her survival; she’s agile, smart and knew where and when to take cover. But conveniently seeing a lone white horse when there are no survivors to be seen anywhere and riding off into the horizon? Eye roll.
Like I said, I’m happy with where the episode ended up. I’m okay with all the deaths, even though some weren’t satisfactory, that’s fine. Just the way they got there, the little things, the lack of attention to detail, the lazy and sloppy writing, all culminated in a disappointing penultimate episode for me.
Good post! However, we also must accept that sometimes directors, writers, and maybe even producers can't do whatever they want due to external (= real life) circumstances. My favorite show of all time (Twin Peaks) was destroyed by that, and despite the writers struggling to make something out of it, it was out of their hands as CBS imposed some very strange decisions. I feel that the same happened to GOT, hence the very fast pace. It is possible that due to real time issues (Actors wanting to stop being on GOT, executives willing to pay a set amount, whatever), the writers were given little space. Hence, the fast paced events. So while I do agree that the pacing is somewhat off compared to S1 to S7, it does not necessarily mean that they stopped caring about quality and detail.
A good theory about the horse: Bran's work.
Since I just binged this show and I am new to it.... Is there any particular reason why seasons 7 and 8 are being cut short? with the crazy following this show has they could easily have made both seasons 10 episodes.... I mean you can drag out a few story lines and slow down the pace a little bit developing arcs...... It just seems bizarre that HBO/Writers would want to cut this cash cow short and not draw it out as much as possible.... I mean the viewership and publicity is absolutely off the charts.
I think the logistic of a show this big prevent it from going 10-12 seasons. Plus, it is really, really expensive to make.
Also, ratings are actually dropping
Also, ratings are actually dropping
Actually HBO was ready to approve more budget for having more seasons, but the producers didn’t want. They wanted to end it. I guess mainly because they didn’t have any new books, and their own writing is bad, as we all see in season 8, which is not based on any book..
Danny is obviously mentally unfit to rule. Still flying around burning everything.
[doublepost=1557784147][/doublepost]
[doublepost=1557784147][/doublepost]
As I told my husband this isn’t the true story.
Let's not forget Dany stood by and watched without flinching when Kal Drogo poured molten gold over her brother's head.
Well she thought her brother had Dragon Blood, but he didn’t and look who did!
Anyone else unfazed by all the spectacle unleashed on screen? At times I felt like I was watching some Marvel movie. All effects, very little sense.
The Red Wedding is still my go-to scene when I think about what's great about GoT.
Edit: Oberyn's duel comes in a close second.
The Red Wedding is still my go-to scene when I think about what's great about GoT.
Edit: Oberyn's duel comes in a close second.
The dragon animations are top notch, especially the long shots of them laying down a blanket of fire.
What was the point of Cersei being pregnant?
What was the point of that ridiculous scene with Euron?
Well just as I knew they would they’ve ruined the show. Hopefully George writes the remaining two books.
What was the point of that ridiculous scene with Euron?
Well just as I knew they would they’ve ruined the show. Hopefully George writes the remaining two books.
To those saying that Martin was planing on doing exactly the same thing the difference is that the author would take the time to show how each character gets to their end point. So everything wouldn’t be a WTF.
Also some of the show has already deviated from the books significantly. We are supposed to feel sorry for Sansa and think of her as a strong women because she was raped by Ramaey. Yet Sansa was never in Winterfell and never married Ramsey.
All that nonsense in Dorne with Jamie and Bronn never happened either. They made the Dornish out to be idiots. Doran spent years plotting revenge for Elia only for it all to be undone by Jamie and Bronn. This is Dorne that was never conquered by the Targaryens but of course they were overcome by Jamie and Bronn.
Varys has become an idiot in the show. In the show he pushed for and sent assassins to murder Danny. Then he suddenly had a change of heart and decided that Danny was the right person to rule the seven kingdoms. Then changed his mind again and decided that Jon was the right person.
The intentions of Varys in the book were unclear for a long time but it became clear that he was always supporting ‘Aegon’ and that he was always biding his time until he could bring his Aegon plan into motion. Now TV Varys is disturbed by Danny’s ‘ruthless’ methods yet this is the same man that murdered Grand maester Pycelle and kevan Lannister with his own hands.
So many things have been changed now which has led to this ridiculous ending.
Also some of the show has already deviated from the books significantly. We are supposed to feel sorry for Sansa and think of her as a strong women because she was raped by Ramaey. Yet Sansa was never in Winterfell and never married Ramsey.
All that nonsense in Dorne with Jamie and Bronn never happened either. They made the Dornish out to be idiots. Doran spent years plotting revenge for Elia only for it all to be undone by Jamie and Bronn. This is Dorne that was never conquered by the Targaryens but of course they were overcome by Jamie and Bronn.
Varys has become an idiot in the show. In the show he pushed for and sent assassins to murder Danny. Then he suddenly had a change of heart and decided that Danny was the right person to rule the seven kingdoms. Then changed his mind again and decided that Jon was the right person.
The intentions of Varys in the book were unclear for a long time but it became clear that he was always supporting ‘Aegon’ and that he was always biding his time until he could bring his Aegon plan into motion. Now TV Varys is disturbed by Danny’s ‘ruthless’ methods yet this is the same man that murdered Grand maester Pycelle and kevan Lannister with his own hands.
So many things have been changed now which has led to this ridiculous ending.
I mean, there's always been a certain ruthlessness about her character (certainly after the events of S1 and her first betrayal by Mirri Maz Duur) have no doubt. But I interpret her character arc specifically leading towards her being ruthless towards people in positions of power to change the lives of those at the bottom... that's what she's been doing the whole time, that's why she didn't just bypass the cities of slaver's bay. So it's definitely a heel turn to have her just unnecessarily burn civilian parts of the city IMO. I guess YMMV depending on how you interpret what she says and wants to do but to me she's never been bloodthirsty as such, perhaps a little excitable in the heat of battle. That is at least not up until S7 of the show when you see a real marked shift in her attitude.
Overall I do think the show bosses should have considered that people have invested up to 8 years in watching this character grow from a downtrodden girl traded as part of a geopolitical plot to a Queen in waiting astride two continents. For a character you are clearly meant to be invested in, the important thing is you're ultimately left satisfied by her story arc, and I don't think the way this has been done is satisfying. Now, it doesn't have to be a happily ever after ending to be satisfying of course. A 'bittersweet' ending as Martin wants could be any number of things:
- Ending up on the Iron throne, but having lost all of her friends and allies that have been with her the longest (incl. Dragons) and feeling alone in the world again as a result.
- Dying to save the world from the Night King, when if she'd been selfish and gone for Cersei instead she almost certainly would have won the throne.
- Even a toned down going mad and refusing to trust people in positions of power making her unsuitable to rule.
Just not burning civilians on a whim.
I have always wondered with that - "Mhysa" on the surface of it sounds like a reasonable made up version of 'mother' but it also doesn't sound a million miles away from "Messiah"...
S 8, E 5
That was quite an episode! Whilst it was surprising that so many of the key characters survived the battle with the Night King, we saw a lot of satisfactory conclusions in this one. I'm going to focus on a few of the key characters.
Danerys
I was given a spoiler for 'The burning of Kings Landing' during the day, so it wasn't a complete shock. I didn't think it was inconsistent with her character's development either. She's gone from naive when first wedded to Khal Drogo, and idealistic when building herself up in Penthos, and she's had to become harsher along the way. This started with the crucifixions of the slave masters, and also in her march from her City State towards Westeros thereafter. She's become harder and more ruthless as the show has developed. Upon reaching Westeros, she's found it has not welcomed her at all. She won over Jon Snow, but he initially 'bended the knee' for pragmatic reasons - to defeat the White Walkers her army and dragons were going to be essential. The north welcomed her less than before. It looked to Jon Snow and Sansa Stark. Sansa is very much de facto 'Queen in the north', whether or not that's her title. Also along the way, and particularly through season 8 she has lost more and more of those close to her: Jorah at the Battle of Winterfell, and Missande after her capture by Euron (and right before her eyes, too). Then to top it all off, it turns out Jon has a better claim to the throne than she has, and then shortly before the battle, he rejected her. She eventually accepted she would not be loved in Westeros, and so it had to be fear.
Against that background, her actions are entirely understandable and consistent for her character.
Jon Snow
His character is that of the 'man who would be king' - greatness thrust on him, rather than sought by him. It's a cliche, but one that may yet be maintained. We're certainly left with 'Good King Jon' being seen to be a viable alternative to Danerys, and even preferred by Varys. Given the gritty realism of the rest of the characters, his melancholy, two-dimensional northerner stereotype is not that rewarding. We know that he is supposed to be a great leader, but we don't see much of why.
In this episode he has seen the Dark Side of Danerys, and it's clear he doesn't like what he sees. It's also not clear that he's seen war up close before. He seemed shocked that a conquering soldier in this era would go after a woman. An unnecessary naivety, I thought.
The exchange of looks between him and Grey Worm during the massacre looked interesting. Grey Worm will be loyal to Danerys to the end, no matter what she does. It looked to me that he either knows of Jon's 'treachery' by revealing his Targaryen parentage, or had been told by Danerys to keep an eye on him. If Jon hadn't used his sword to despatch an attacker, it looked like Grey Worm may have turned on him. I suspect we will see a final battle between them in the next episode.
Jamie
Jamie going back to Cersei was entirely in keeping with his character, for me. As Tyrion pointed out, he's always known what Cersei is like, but he's loved her anyway. Brienne wasn't his redemption, he was always more honourable than his enemies wished to portray. He got his nickname 'Kingslayer' / 'oathbreaker', for killing the last Mad King, but it's often forgotten why he did it. It's in the books and mentioned in series 1 - the Mad King had Lord Stark (Ned's father) tortured to death over a triviality. Jamie thought Lord Stark was a good man, and for him it was the final straw. His actions had significant consequences for Westeros, and he received much vitriol because of it. He accepted that, if not gave in to it, even played up to his nickname somewhat. His relationship with Brienne, to me was about him seeing someone maintained her honourable standards no matter what others did or said. This led him back to accepting that's who he really was, and he clearly loved her for it. But Cersei was the love of his life, and when it came down to it, he had to go to her, to try and save her.
I liked his final fight with Euron. Euron, to me, is the dishonourable wretch Jamie was portrayed to be. I didn't like that Euron managed to mortally wound him twice, and yet Jamie could stilll get up, fight back and go and find Cersei, that was a bit match, but I liked the end to their story arcs.
Cersei
I'm not sure she's really dead. Arya may yet get her wish. It's too easy a death for her, for this show.
Tyrion
Tyrion was my favourite character for a long time. He's not done much this season, apart from stand around looking mournful and anguished. I thought his attempts to save his brother and sister were very him. It'll be interesting to see what happens next . Will Danerys execute her last 'friend' / ally (other than Grey Worm)? Will he temper her iron will? Will he go over to Jon?
'Clegana bowl'
Just brilliant.
Arya
I was surprised about her being deflected from her kill list by the Hound. She clearly didn't like what Danerys did to Kings Landing. Will Danerys's name be added to her list? So far, it's only people that have hurt her or her family. I'm not sure Cersei's definitely gone, it may be that she gets to finish her off after all. If Cersei did die, will that ameliorate things for Arya. I thought the white horse at the end was a bit much, although I like the 'Bran warg-ed' it to her fan theory.
Question for the group - Ghost
In the novel Jon's Direwolf was killed by Aliser and the Black Watch before they killed Jon. All of a sudden in Series 8, we're seeing a white Direwolf again, although it hasn't been called by name, so far as I recall. I haven't re-watched GoT for season 8, can someone confirm whether he's supposed to be alive or not? If so, where has he been for the last 3 seasons? I wonder whether he will reappear in the finale? Perhaps saving Jon from Grey Worm?
Speculation for the Finale
Jon ends up opposing Danerys. There is a final confrontation. Jon calls the Wildlings back to help him. There is a final battle / confrontation. Either Jon ends up on the Iron Throne, or somehow Jon and Danerys dies and Gendry or Sansa does.
Responding to other's thoughts on Series 8
I think it's important to remember that the medium of TV doesn't allow as much character development as a book, and that with so many key characters (by the end of Season 7,) there couldn't be interesting developments for all of them and still have the main story arcs resolved. Season 8 had to deal with the Night King and White Walkers, and the Iron Throne. These required episodes of extended length to do them justice, and I think they've been done well.
I also don't think the show's been badly written, as compared to the books. It's been adapted for a different medium, and in many ways I think the TV show has been better than the books. There is an awful lot of digression from the main story in the books. When you get to Tyrion's execution of his father in the book, it's an exciting climax to the novel, and you want to know more of what's happening with Tyrion. However, the first 400 pages of the next book don't mention him at all. Instead they introduce Davos and his story. Deeply frustrating.
That was quite an episode! Whilst it was surprising that so many of the key characters survived the battle with the Night King, we saw a lot of satisfactory conclusions in this one. I'm going to focus on a few of the key characters.
Danerys
I was given a spoiler for 'The burning of Kings Landing' during the day, so it wasn't a complete shock. I didn't think it was inconsistent with her character's development either. She's gone from naive when first wedded to Khal Drogo, and idealistic when building herself up in Penthos, and she's had to become harsher along the way. This started with the crucifixions of the slave masters, and also in her march from her City State towards Westeros thereafter. She's become harder and more ruthless as the show has developed. Upon reaching Westeros, she's found it has not welcomed her at all. She won over Jon Snow, but he initially 'bended the knee' for pragmatic reasons - to defeat the White Walkers her army and dragons were going to be essential. The north welcomed her less than before. It looked to Jon Snow and Sansa Stark. Sansa is very much de facto 'Queen in the north', whether or not that's her title. Also along the way, and particularly through season 8 she has lost more and more of those close to her: Jorah at the Battle of Winterfell, and Missande after her capture by Euron (and right before her eyes, too). Then to top it all off, it turns out Jon has a better claim to the throne than she has, and then shortly before the battle, he rejected her. She eventually accepted she would not be loved in Westeros, and so it had to be fear.
Against that background, her actions are entirely understandable and consistent for her character.
Jon Snow
His character is that of the 'man who would be king' - greatness thrust on him, rather than sought by him. It's a cliche, but one that may yet be maintained. We're certainly left with 'Good King Jon' being seen to be a viable alternative to Danerys, and even preferred by Varys. Given the gritty realism of the rest of the characters, his melancholy, two-dimensional northerner stereotype is not that rewarding. We know that he is supposed to be a great leader, but we don't see much of why.
In this episode he has seen the Dark Side of Danerys, and it's clear he doesn't like what he sees. It's also not clear that he's seen war up close before. He seemed shocked that a conquering soldier in this era would go after a woman. An unnecessary naivety, I thought.
The exchange of looks between him and Grey Worm during the massacre looked interesting. Grey Worm will be loyal to Danerys to the end, no matter what she does. It looked to me that he either knows of Jon's 'treachery' by revealing his Targaryen parentage, or had been told by Danerys to keep an eye on him. If Jon hadn't used his sword to despatch an attacker, it looked like Grey Worm may have turned on him. I suspect we will see a final battle between them in the next episode.
Jamie
Jamie going back to Cersei was entirely in keeping with his character, for me. As Tyrion pointed out, he's always known what Cersei is like, but he's loved her anyway. Brienne wasn't his redemption, he was always more honourable than his enemies wished to portray. He got his nickname 'Kingslayer' / 'oathbreaker', for killing the last Mad King, but it's often forgotten why he did it. It's in the books and mentioned in series 1 - the Mad King had Lord Stark (Ned's father) tortured to death over a triviality. Jamie thought Lord Stark was a good man, and for him it was the final straw. His actions had significant consequences for Westeros, and he received much vitriol because of it. He accepted that, if not gave in to it, even played up to his nickname somewhat. His relationship with Brienne, to me was about him seeing someone maintained her honourable standards no matter what others did or said. This led him back to accepting that's who he really was, and he clearly loved her for it. But Cersei was the love of his life, and when it came down to it, he had to go to her, to try and save her.
I liked his final fight with Euron. Euron, to me, is the dishonourable wretch Jamie was portrayed to be. I didn't like that Euron managed to mortally wound him twice, and yet Jamie could stilll get up, fight back and go and find Cersei, that was a bit match, but I liked the end to their story arcs.
Cersei
I'm not sure she's really dead. Arya may yet get her wish. It's too easy a death for her, for this show.
Tyrion
Tyrion was my favourite character for a long time. He's not done much this season, apart from stand around looking mournful and anguished. I thought his attempts to save his brother and sister were very him. It'll be interesting to see what happens next . Will Danerys execute her last 'friend' / ally (other than Grey Worm)? Will he temper her iron will? Will he go over to Jon?
'Clegana bowl'
Just brilliant.
Arya
I was surprised about her being deflected from her kill list by the Hound. She clearly didn't like what Danerys did to Kings Landing. Will Danerys's name be added to her list? So far, it's only people that have hurt her or her family. I'm not sure Cersei's definitely gone, it may be that she gets to finish her off after all. If Cersei did die, will that ameliorate things for Arya. I thought the white horse at the end was a bit much, although I like the 'Bran warg-ed' it to her fan theory.
Question for the group - Ghost
In the novel Jon's Direwolf was killed by Aliser and the Black Watch before they killed Jon. All of a sudden in Series 8, we're seeing a white Direwolf again, although it hasn't been called by name, so far as I recall. I haven't re-watched GoT for season 8, can someone confirm whether he's supposed to be alive or not? If so, where has he been for the last 3 seasons? I wonder whether he will reappear in the finale? Perhaps saving Jon from Grey Worm?
Speculation for the Finale
Jon ends up opposing Danerys. There is a final confrontation. Jon calls the Wildlings back to help him. There is a final battle / confrontation. Either Jon ends up on the Iron Throne, or somehow Jon and Danerys dies and Gendry or Sansa does.
Responding to other's thoughts on Series 8
I think it's important to remember that the medium of TV doesn't allow as much character development as a book, and that with so many key characters (by the end of Season 7,) there couldn't be interesting developments for all of them and still have the main story arcs resolved. Season 8 had to deal with the Night King and White Walkers, and the Iron Throne. These required episodes of extended length to do them justice, and I think they've been done well.
I also don't think the show's been badly written, as compared to the books. It's been adapted for a different medium, and in many ways I think the TV show has been better than the books. There is an awful lot of digression from the main story in the books. When you get to Tyrion's execution of his father in the book, it's an exciting climax to the novel, and you want to know more of what's happening with Tyrion. However, the first 400 pages of the next book don't mention him at all. Instead they introduce Davos and his story. Deeply frustrating.
I can confirm the direwolf is alive in the series. The handling of these creatures is pretty confusing to me anyway since they only popped up here or there in the series and seemingly out of the blue. Long time since I watched the earliest seasons though so perhaps they had more of a role in there.
A few thoughts on episode 5:
- Dany's descent into madness: I would've liked to have seen more of her just before and during the attack, but I wasn't too surprised. She's had similar impulses checked by Tryion and others in the past. She's lost two of her children (interesting parallel to Cersei), she trusts no-one any longer (including her lover, Jon, who has a better claim to the Iron Throne than she), her best friend was beheaded in front of her, and the man who most loved her, Jorah, died protecting her. I also think Missandei's exhortation "dracarys" just before she was killed helped push Dany over.
- Arya's decision to leave: She's smart and respected The Hound's advice. She knew she would die if she stayed and that Cersei would probably die regardless. I liked the way she called The Hound by his first name.
- Clegane Bowl: Well done. I also thought "Darth Vader" when the helmet and armor came off. I half expected him to say "Sandor, I am your brother!"
- Jaime: For awhile, I thought he was on his way to kill his sister, but in the end he loved her too much.
- Defeat of the Golden Company: Yes, it was easier than it should have been, but what do you expect from sellswords commanded by a man whose name sounds more suitable for an insurance salesman?
- Bronn: He's not going to collect on Cersei's gold, but will he help Tyrion?
- GRRM wouldn't have done it like this: No way to tell without hearing from him (and he's unlikely to be too critical given his earnings from HBO). But, since the books and series have already diverged considerably, book readers can hope for a different ending if they're dissatisfied.
- Destruction sequence: Very well executed and shot, no matter how inappropriate you think it was.
- Upcoming finale: I'm ready for whatever happens, knowing I'll probably be disappointed by some deaths.
Everything wrong with season 8 or 7 has to do with pacing and simply how many episodes were available to tell and finish the story. To make things worse, I've heard that HBO actually wanted 10-episode seasons (like 1-6, season 7 was 7 episodes, 8 is 6) but the writers D&D actually cut that down (they are now writing a Star Wars series).
Wether or not that's true, fact is that if they for example had a 10-episode season 8 for everything Night King and a 10-episode season 9 for everything Cersei - with the same plot - all could have been as great as before.
Varys just wants the best person on the throne, thinking in the best interest of Westeros. Not that weird he had a second change of heart when the truth about Jon came out.
Anyway, it's always been clear the show was not going to follow the books by the letter and while some of D&D writing in season 1-6 was controversial (Sansa's rape scene), it was good overall and a literal implementation was never an option. The ending feeling ridiculous to you, in my view, has more to do with pacing and storytelling that was dumbed-down because of a limited number of episodes.
Like I said above, the last seasons were rushed. The only way for this season to have been completely satisfying would have been if it were longer, not have a completely different story.
Even though GRRM hasn't finished the story yet and though I haven't seen evidence of it; I believe he told D&D about things like who ends up where (main characters) and that Dany would eventually snap which now seems to be the end of her mission to get to the throne.
I'm excited to see what the final episode will bring. I'm already sure they cannot possible wrap this up perfectly in 80 minutes, so by lowering my expectations it should be fine.
Remember this the same Varys who told Aerys not to open the gates when the Lannister Army came. The same Aerys that was mad, unstable, killed innocent civilians, plunged the realm into war and wanted to blow up kings landing. Yet he stayed loyal to Aerys until the end cautioning him not to open the gates to the Lannister Army.
It is what happens when the time frame of an 80 min episode represents a much greater slice of the book, and compromises must be made. Based on budget restraints, this has been going on since Season 2.
The writers have done a pretty decent job all the way up to where The Wall is breached (S8E2?), before the serious cracks started appearing in their own narrative. But as I’ve said for a long time now, the HBO version of GoT is like viewing an abbreviated outline of the story with much of it left out and variations inserted to account for its brevity, to suture up the gaps they created.
Such as you mentioned, Sansa never married a Bolton. When she escaped with Little Finger, the Lannister’s sent a fake Sansa or was it a fake Ayra? I think this was done to beef up the Sansa TV role. Jamie never went to Dorn to fetch his and Cercei’s Daughter and the Sand Snakes never poisoned her.
Last edited:
Most do agree on Varys only wanting what's best for the realm, I think it's safe to say that was always true.
The example you're giving therefore should be explained in another way, which is a point of discussion (and proves my point that most agree on my earlier statement). I'm not too deep into this stuff and haven't read the books, but I find it very interesting now that you mention it. Here's some of that discussion: https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/8ydzht/spoilers_main_the_irony_of_aeryss_decision_to/
(a possibility)
Yes it was Jeyne Poole Sansa’s Childhood friend who was passed off as Arya and married to Ramsey Bolton. One of the things that was missed in the TV series was the Theon had also grown up with Jeyne Poole in winter fell and when the lords of the northern houses were querying the legitimacy of Arya, it was Theon who authenticated her this condemning her to the horrors she later suffered. The whole point of the marriage was to install the Bolton’s as the Wardens of the north and to get the North back on Cersei’s side.
Yes in the books Myrcella is still alive, only missing an ear.
[doublepost=1557838196][/doublepost]
Yes a Targaryen support rather than simply wanting what’s best for the realm.
How would his support for Targaryens be explained then? He isn't one and nothing in his character would make him loyal to any particular family, right?
This is where what I've read about Varys and my knowledge of what's in the book or on TV ends; Varys sends assassins to murder Dany, however, he also warns Jorah to protect Dany suggesting he didn't actually want to kill her, but rather stay in favor with King Robert. Was this different on TV? Don't remember exactly.
He did not know about Jon/Aegon at first right? Not in the books either I suppose? I'm not sure what you mean there.
I hated the red wedding so much that I almost stopped watching the show.. It still angers me that Robb and Catelyn were killed that way. The whole "avenge their fathers death" story line was cut short in the most asinine way. Absolute worst part of this show, it was lazy, shoddy writing.