Game of Thrones (HBO)

[ritmomundo]

 

[Huntn]

You forgot the woman she burned at the stake in season 1 (don't remember her name) and burning Varys in season 8 but really who’s counting?

In any event I don’t think the filmmakers are making any arguments about anything. They are telling a story and that story encompasses all of the seasons, not just the last one. And as a Targaryen or as an honorary Dothraki or a breaker of chains etc etc she doesn’t see anything she does as madness.

All of this brouhaha with Daenerys is making me think about when I saw Star Wars (the original trilogy) when it first ran in the theaters. Obviously no internet back then, but nevertheless after everyone saw the empire strikes back, I can assure you that there were two major topics of discussion at that time: first, was empire better than the first - and at that time, untitled - Star Wars movie, and the second and the most divisive topic, was Vader really Luke Skywalker’s father or was it just a trick to bring him over to the dark side. That was a huge debate amongst fans back then. After all, Obi-Wan said in the first movie in no uncertain terms that Luke’s father was “betrayed and murdered” by Vader so it couldn’t be true...

Apparently the controversy wasn’t lost on Lucas so in return of the Jedi the movie goes out of its way to set up the scene where Luke asks Yoda if Vader is really his father. The soundtrack even hits a sustained pensive note before Yoda answers to punctuate the question and highly anticipated answer even more. Then Yoda finally acknowledges that Vader is in fact his father - and the soundtrack immediately goes into a sweeping doom and gloom passage. Uh-oh...

The point is, after everyone saw return of the Jedi, everyone accepted that Vader was Luke’s father. It just became part of the overall story. The controversy before basically vanished and after generations and generations have seen the movies, it’s still accepted today as part of the story.

But if the original stars wars trilogy was released today, the reaction would be along the lines of:

Darth Vader is Luke Skywalker’s father!?? Are you kidding me!? That’s just stupid! Where’s the narrative background for that? It’s like they pulled it out of nowhere! Might as well just end the movie with Luke writing a book entitled “lies obi-wan told me.”

I don’t think so. It is still brilliant.

 

[Bug-Creator]

Kinda liked the season and I think it made sense for what GoT was always about. Maybe they should have made the last episode 30min shorter, all that "Bran the broken" happy-ending for everyone really went against the character of the show/books.

As for Dani not making sense, just look at any part of human history war or none and you'll find that even if you knew all the facts you'd still end up with several WTFs.

 

[bobob]

 

[Huntn]

Kinda liked the season and I think it made sense for what GoT was always about. Maybe they should have made the last episode 30min shorter, all that "Bran the broken" happy-ending for everyone really went against the character of the show/books.

As for Dani not making sense, just look at any part of human history war or none and you'll find that even if you knew all the facts you'd still end up with several WTFs.

I agree with you, although I’ll observe as far as realism, and what really happens when humans are involved as related to fantasy fiction (all fiction?), in a story existing within the realm of art, or expert “story telling” we don’t necessarily want, what could of realistically happened.

We want to be wowed by the author’s genius at composing story telling brilliance where rash actions are given more of a foundation. Unfortunately that was short changed and the author was mostly absent for the end.

And I agree that this climax could have been the outcome as Daenerys breaks with her own past standards, but I think it needed more preparation and investment of time. There were a lot of wheels turning in the story, and the HBO did not seem to honor or resolve them properly due to its abbreviated nature.

 

[zmunkz]

Stumbled across this. His ending is WAY better. At least we have fanfic, until GRRM comes along and cleans the mess up. Worth a watch... it's only like 10 minuted from where this starts, and it made me feel better lol. I can just pretend it went down this way.

 

[Huntn]

Stumbled across this. His ending is WAY better. At least we have fanfic, until GRRM comes along and cleans the mess up. Worth a watch... it's only like 10 minuted from where this starts, and it made me feel better lol. I can just pretend it went down this way.

First off I laughed out loud hearing Nikolai Coster-Waldau’s response about his reaction to the final episode, LOL.

Secondly HOLY CRAP, this guy’s idea about his preferred ending IS FREAKING BRILLIANT. He is spot on about who the real threat in this story is, and having Bran be instrumental with his 3 Eyed Raven powers.

 

[jkcerda]

HATED the last season written by monkeys for sure

 

[Roller]

First off I laughed out loud hearing Nikolai Coster-Waldau’s response about his reaction to the final episode, LOL.

Secondly HOLY CRAP, this guy’s idea about his preferred ending IS FREAKING BRILLIANT. He is spot on about who the real threat in this story is, and having Bran be instrumental with his 3 Eyed Raven powers.

Some great ideas in that video. Like others who've suggested alternative endings, he addresses several problems with S8 plots:

• It was too easy to kill the Night King, and he died too early - that should have been the ultimate battle
• Bran didn't do much of anything after all the build-up
• Jaime should have continued his redemption arc by killing his sister
• Dany's descent into madness should have been checked

I've read many complaints that S8 was too rushed, but does that mean that it was put together too hastily, or that there were too few episodes to tell the story? I think D&D could have done better with six S8 episodes, as the video shows. I'd like to hear who else knew about what they planned for the final season(s), including GRRM.

 

[Huntn]

For anyone who is lamenting the ending of Game of Thrones, and has not seen the video in post 1956, by most accounts it is superior to what HBO gave us.

Some great ideas in that video. Like others who've suggested alternative endings, he addresses several problems with S8 plots:

• It was too easy to kill the Night King, and he died too early - that should have been the ultimate battle
• Bran didn't do much of anything after all the build-up
• Jaime should have continued his redemption arc by killing his sister
• Dany's descent into madness should have been checked

I've read many complaints that S8 was too rushed, but does that mean that it was put together too hastily, or that there were too few episodes to tell the story? I think D&D could have done better with six S8 episodes, as the video shows. I'd like to hear who else new about what they planned for the final season(s), including GRRM.

Agreed on all points. As was, S8E3, Battle of Winterfell seemed off and S8E5 did not seem like a battle at all. In hindsight, it was all pretty short changed and horrible.

Regarding character arcs and dynamics:

• Based on what has been written so far, the show actually made Sansa more significant than the books have so far.
• Bran’s Raven ability was just about been completely wasted. The idea of him being instrumental in *the* climatic fight against the Dark King, by possessing the ice dragon would have been a huge payoff. As is, we have watched him head down his path, but he played no significant role in anything. And I could easily imagined all Lords of Westeros, in the show asking who the hell is this guy and why should he be King?
• The idea of Ayra using her face ability to pretend to be Jamie so she could kill Cersei would have been amazing. Or as you said, Jamie killing Cersei, but it would have been nice to see Ayra use her skill for something good in this revised story line.
• Redemption for Daenerys would have been much more satisfying then having a mass murdering temper tantrum. Again Bran using his sight to understand where the power of the Dark King originates and while Kings Landing is attacked by walkers, Danny flys North by dragon to destroy the weirwoid tree that gives the Dark King his power, but it also destroys most of the magic in the realm, including taking the life out of Jon Snow, whose life was restored by magic.

I wonder if the show’s writers felt due to time and budget restrictions, they could not pull off a more complex dynamic ending as described in the video, so they went with their crap version to leave it up to GRRM to later provide the real treat? Also I’ve heard rumors of a desire to make LOTR movies. I could easily imagine a 2 or 3 movie trilogy arc depicting Westeros vs The Dark King, The True Story. Won’t hold my breath for that.

 

[ritmomundo]

Stumbled across this. His ending is WAY better. At least we have fanfic, until GRRM comes along and cleans the mess up. Worth a watch... it's only like 10 minuted from where this starts, and it made me feel better lol. I can just pretend it went down this way.

That would’ve made for an amazing final season. While still not flawless, it hits on most of the main points every fan (probably) wanted to see..

One mistake the video made though, Jaime would still need to die for Arya to use his face. But otherwise I liked where it went.

While I too would’ve loved to see a Jon and Night King showdown, I get why they didn’t. Jon wasn’t a threat to or primary focus of the NK. Just an obstacle.

But linking the NK to the Old Wierwood would’ve been a great idea, and given them a chance to finally explain the lore and the symbols, which were completely ignored otherwise. Though I’m not sure the magic that saved Jon would’ve been linked to it as well (being different gods).

On that note, something I didn’t quite understand (in the actual show) about the NK’s death, was if he was impervious to dragon fire, why was he killable with Valyrian steel? It’s only special because it was forged with dragon fire...

 

[bigjnyc]

Stumbled across this. His ending is WAY better. At least we have fanfic, until GRRM comes along and cleans the mess up. Worth a watch... it's only like 10 minuted from where this starts, and it made me feel better lol. I can just pretend it went down this way.

That's pretty good, I liked it overall.. Just a few holes that need to be cleaned up but pretty good, I like it better than the original ending.

 

[zmunkz]

The frustrating part is one guy with a week’s thought could come up with this, but HBO-budget writers with 2 years and a direct line to GRRM gave us that. Just so hard to make sense of what they were going for.

 

[jkcerda]

by the old gods & the new ones I love memes

 

[Number-Six]

by the old gods & the new ones I love memes

It is downright blasphemy to compare the great Palpatine to her

 

[ritmomundo]

I like this one.

 

[bigjnyc]

I know season 8 gets a really bad rap. But as I am going through binging the show for the first time, I just saw episode 3 (the long night) and wow I have to say that was a pretty amazing episode. I get that people are upset about the NK being killed so suddenly... But the build up was incredible, and all of the interactions and battles were pretty freaking awesome. Anyway I know this is not a popular opinion..... but I wanted to share my thoughts.

 

[Khalanad75]

I know season 8 gets a really bad rap. But as I am going through binging the show for the first time, I just saw episode 3 (the long night) and wow I have to say that was a pretty amazing episode. I get that people are upset about the NK being killed so suddenly... But the build up was incredible, and all of the interactions and battles were pretty freaking awesome. Anyway I know this is not a popular opinion..... but I wanted to share my thoughts.

Don't worry, some of us are okay with how season 8 went and how the show ended. It's okay not being popular

 

[zmunkz]

I know season 8 gets a really bad rap. But as I am going through binging the show for the first time, I just saw episode 3 (the long night) and wow I have to say that was a pretty amazing episode. I get that people are upset about the NK being killed so suddenly... But the build up was incredible, and all of the interactions and battles were pretty freaking awesome. Anyway I know this is not a popular opinion..... but I wanted to share my thoughts.

Every season 8 episode — standing on it’s own — was absolutely fantastic! I have very few complaints about any of the episodes, taken entirely out of the context of the series. Brilliant VFX / CGI / cinematography / characterization, etc.

The disappointment comes in when we look at the episodes, together, as the culmination of the previous 7 years.

 

[Roller]

Actually, you might want to wait another week. Looks like they'll be airing a special 2-hour behind-the-scenes documentary called "The Last Watch" on May 26 (one week after the finale).
https://tvline.com/2019/03/27/game-of-thrones-documentary-final-season-8-premiere-date/

The Last Watch was worth seeing (See-worthy?) even if you're not a fan of the ending. It showed how physically and mentally arduous the work of making GoT, especially weeks of night shots for the Winterfell battle, was. Although it spent some time on several of the principal actors, much of it showcased extras and other behind-the-scenes people.

 

[Obi Wan Kenobi]

All of this brouhaha with Daenerys is making me think about when I saw Star Wars (the original trilogy) when it first ran in the theaters. Obviously no internet back then, but nevertheless after everyone saw the empire strikes back, I can assure you that there were two major topics of discussion at that time: first, was empire better than the first - and at that time, untitled - Star Wars movie, and the second and the most divisive topic, was Vader really Luke Skywalker’s father or was it just a trick to bring him over to the dark side. That was a huge debate amongst fans back then. After all, Obi-Wan said in the first movie in no uncertain terms that Luke’s father was “betrayed and murdered” by Vader so it couldn’t be true...

Apparently the controversy wasn’t lost on Lucas so in return of the Jedi the movie goes out of its way to set up the scene where Luke asks Yoda if Vader is really his father. The soundtrack even hits a sustained pensive note before Yoda answers to punctuate the question and highly anticipated answer even more. Then Yoda finally acknowledges that Vader is in fact his father - and the soundtrack immediately goes into a sweeping doom and gloom passage. Uh-oh...

The point is, after everyone saw return of the Jedi, everyone accepted that Vader was Luke’s father. It just became part of the overall story. The controversy before basically vanished and after generations and generations have seen the movies, it’s still accepted today as part of the story.

But if the original stars wars trilogy was released today, the reaction would be along the lines of:

Darth Vader is Luke Skywalker’s father!?? Are you kidding me!? That’s just stupid! Where’s the narrative background for that? It’s like they pulled it out of nowhere! Might as well just end the movie with Luke writing a book entitled “lies obi-wan told me.”

That's a good analogy. One key difference is that despite Lucas's many claims to have envisioned a trilogy, when he made Star Wars (ep 4), it was only intended as a one-off when it was made. The claims of a plan for a multi-movie arc came later after it was an unexpected success.

As you can imagine, I'm quite familiar with all of Obi-Wan's dialogue in Star Wars. There are a whole host of non-sequiturs for the later movies.

For example, in later lore "Darth" is a sith title - which is why every sith lord is 'Darth something'. In Star Wars (ep 4), it was clearly just a first name. In the passage you've referred to, Obi-Wan refers to "a young jedi named Darth Vader, who was a pupil of mine before he turned to evil".

Also at the start of Obi-Wan's confrontation final with Vader there is "When I left you, I was but a boy. Now I am the master"

Obi-Wan responds "Only a master of evil, Darth". As I say, it was clearly only a name at that stage.

I think there's a distinction when the author does these things and when others take over the project and write parts of the whole. Fans will accept what the author's done (sometimes grudgingly), but when another author - here D&D - do it, fans feel more able to challenge and complain about story choices.

 

[bobob]

Game of Thrones creators David Benioff and DB Weiss have cancelled their scheduled appearance at San Diego Comic-Con this week.

Probably a good idea if they don't want to be booed off stage.

 

[ritmomundo]

Today, HBO cancelled plans to move forward with the prequel series The Long Night.

Game of Thrones Spinoff Shock: HBO Passes on ‘Troubled’ Prequel Project

Here’s something that’s not coming: HBO‘s in-the-works Game of Thrones prequel spinoff from Jane Goldman. TVLine has confirmed that the cabler has opted not to move forward with Naomi Watts-headlined project. According to sources, HBO execs screened the pilot over the summer and were not...

tvline.com

But then gave a 10-episode order for another prequel series House of the Dragon, which will take place about 300 years before Game of Thrones and focus on members of House Targaryen.

Game of Thrones Prequel Series House of the Dragon Snags 10-Episode Order

Daenerys Targaryen’s house will indeed rise again: HBO has formally placed a 10-episode series order for a Game of Thrones prequel that would trace the glory days of House Targaryen. The spinoff, titled House of the Dragon, is co-created by GoT book author George R.R. Martin and Colony creator...

tvline.com

 

[bobob]

After admitting they had no clue what they were doing on GoT...

...this is great news about the showrunners that ruined Game of Thrones:

David Benioff and DB Weiss booted off Star Wars franchise!

Netflix is stuck with them now - - hopefully they'll be put somewhere that they can't do too much harm.

-------------

Edit:

I especially enjoyed this comment from an article on Ars Technica:

"I popped over to the star wars boards and looked at some of the comments on places like Deadline, and it's near universal praise for this outcome by fans. I haven't seen the Star Wars community in this much agreement in decades."

 

[Falhófnir]

Today, HBO cancelled plans to move forward with the prequel series The Long Night.

Game of Thrones Spinoff Shock: HBO Passes on ‘Troubled’ Prequel Project

Here’s something that’s not coming: HBO‘s in-the-works Game of Thrones prequel spinoff from Jane Goldman. TVLine has confirmed that the cabler has opted not to move forward with Naomi Watts-headlined project. According to sources, HBO execs screened the pilot over the summer and were not...

tvline.com

But then gave a 10-episode order for another prequel series House of the Dragon, which will take place about 300 years before Game of Thrones and focus on members of House Targaryen.

Game of Thrones Prequel Series House of the Dragon Snags 10-Episode Order

Daenerys Targaryen’s house will indeed rise again: HBO has formally placed a 10-episode series order for a Game of Thrones prequel that would trace the glory days of House Targaryen. The spinoff, titled House of the Dragon, is co-created by GoT book author George R.R. Martin and Colony creator...

tvline.com

I can see more potential in HotD, honestly. The Long Night would have retrodden a lot of existing ground, and given the really lacklustre wrap up for the Night King makes it a bit hard to get excited over it all (still think the white walkers should have gotten 5 of the 6 episodes in a proper big fantasy battle, while Cersei was just dealt with by Jaime in the last episode like Jon/Dany). Old Valyria is pure hype, though I don't think we're going that far back if it's only 300 years prior (the Doom was ~400 years before GoT). Still will be nice to see the Targaryens at the height of their power...

After admitting they had no clue what they were doing on GoT...

...this is great news about the showrunners that ruined Game of Thrones:

David Benioff and DB Weiss booted off Star Wars franchise!

Netflix is stuck with them now - - hopefully they'll be put somewhere that they can't do too much harm.

-------------

Edit:

I especially enjoyed this comment from an article on Ars Technica:

"I popped over to the star wars boards and looked at some of the comments on places like Deadline, and it's near universal praise for this outcome by fans. I haven't seen the Star Wars community in this much agreement in decades."

Frankly it's clear they have little writing/ plotting talent when they don't have an absolute gift of source material to streamline, so I wouldn't be surprised if whatever they do for Netflix flops and they're never heard from again. Think they got very lucky with GoT, right place at the right time and all that.