Garageband is useless...

[DavisBAnimal]

I think all this debate about GarageBand is real silly for an app that's still a good 4 or 5 days away from release. How can anyone know it's utility if no one has used it yet?

That being said, from the looks of it, this isn't a toy, this doesn't have to be just a sketch pad, and I'm going to tell you all right now that, come this Friday, I will begin work on my upcoming album, made entirely through GarageBand, nothing else, and set to drop, oh, say February 17th - and it is going to be HUGE. That will show all you GarageBand nay-sayers!

I've been playing music, writing songs, for a good 10 years or so - and have for the past few been really interested in getting into digital audio. But, to be honest with you - the digital audio world has to be the most uselessly complicated, geek-techy, computer-dorkish world of software out there. I couldn't decide between Logic Audio Gold, Silver, Red, Blue, Brown, Green, Orange, with support for VST, AU, MIDI, LOL, ROTFLMAO, Virtual Instruments, Banana Muffin ports, DigiDesign MOTU, M-Audio 6 port 96 khz / 128 megawatts, 1/8 coaxil with RST GHTEAGHHE at 14 hominid humunculous, garbage garbage garbage. It's ridiculous - I can't for a moment figure this stuff out without a masters degree in computer jargon. I play the damn guitar and want to record some of it, sing over it, and just ROCK OUT. I don't want to become certified in the linguistics of the ubergeeks before I'm able to do this.

GarageBane seems to strike a nice balance for those of us who want a simple program to record our breathtaking works of staggering musical genius.

Just wait for my album to drop.

Davis

 

[baby duck monge]

Originally posted by DavisBAnimal

I've been playing music, writing songs, for a good 10 years or so - and have for the past few been really interested in getting into digital audio. But, to be honest with you - the digital audio world has to be the most uselessly complicated, geek-techy, computer-dorkish world of software out there. I couldn't decide between Logic Audio Gold, Silver, Red, Blue, Brown, Green, Orange, with support for VST, AU, MIDI, LOL, ROTFLMAO, Virtual Instruments, Banana Muffin ports, DigiDesign MOTU, M-Audio 6 port 96 khz / 128 megawatts, 1/8 coaxil with RST GHTEAGHHE at 14 hominid humunculous, garbage garbage garbage. It's ridiculous - I can't for a moment figure this stuff out without a masters degree in computer jargon. I play the damn guitar and want to record some of it, sing over it, and just ROCK OUT. I don't want to become certified in the linguistics of the ubergeeks before I'm able to do this.

this is one of the funniest things i have read on these boards in quite some time. thank you.

 

[Audacity Works]

Originally posted by Torajima YOU CAN NOT EXPORT GARAGEBAND PROJECTS TO OTHER APPLICATIONS.

The ability to import and export midi and audio tracks is a rather stupid omission, even for an application aimed at "novices".

Huh? The only way iTunes can open a Garage Band song is if it's first mixed down as an AIFF file. Which means you can then open that file within any audio app you choose. Which means the audio side is completely exportable. If you want to be able to automatically open a GarageBand song into Logic, complete with sample-accurate playlist, loop info, mixer settings, and such, then dang... No other piece of software can do that either, unless you get into OMF import/export which is not only extrememly buggy, but is already beginning to lose steam. Even if you want to try OMF, Logic Platinum ($650), Digital Performer ($550), or ProTools LE with the DVToolkit utility ($399 MBox + $799) are the only ones that support it.

You could do what everyone else does now-- Mix down the song a track at a time (making sure that each file starts at the beginning of the song and goes all the way though) and then import those files into any other multitrack app.

It'd be pretty cool if Apple made a playlist converter for Logic, but it'd be extremely complicated to accomplish, and probably not worth it, unless a bunch of users demand it.

As for MIDI export, you forget. Garage Band doesn't do MIDI. It sequences its internal softsynths, yes, but if you were to export that MIDI data into, say, Logic, the sounds wouldn't be there, since MIDI doesn't contain audio information. You'd have to reselect different softsynths, which would never sound exactly the same.

Or rather, if you have Logic, why use GarageBand at all? It's easier to use, but it's certainly not faster to get around.

Or... you could simply download the Beta of Jack Tools and route the output of Garage Band directly into Logic. Problem solved.

 

[Trekkie]

Also I've dug around and listened to / watched the Keynote and I've noticed they always skip over the 'import' section of the application.

I really think the original thread poster has blown this all out of proportion.

I don't know what machine Steve used during his keynote, but even a dual G5 2.0GHz probably can't compress an AAC as fast as it did there on the screen (I woudlnt' know, I still have a lowly 867MHz rev A Powerbook 12") and I'd bet it was AIFF or something very easy to send out.

That and I think a lot of folks like to B*tch for the sake of B*tching in this forum. I myself am very excited after watching the John Meyer demonstration.

And I just wanted to chime in with 'hear hear' to the folks pointing out that SIMPLICITY is the key. I'm amazed at the number of folks that fall for the 'bells and whistels' that people tack onto an object or the versionitis that accompanies it.

A musician - no matter if they bang a drum or play a deck of synthesized keyboards - don't want something they have to spend 20 min setting up and if they hose it have to start over, they want what was demoed. Drag - drop, drag - drop, drag - drop, and then jam for 6 hours.

 

[martin]

News Flash: Consumer refuses to buy new software doesn't do exactly what he wants.

Yaaaaaaaaaawn.

Here's what to do: buy your pro app. Use it. Be happy.

FFS, do you hear Photoshop users bitching that MS Paint is useless because it doesn't export layered PSD files.

Jeez Louise!

 

[Ensoniq]

Originally posted by tjwett
i really have no response to your post, just that your name is Ensoniq. are you a fan of the old Ensoniq keyboards and samplers? not a day goes by that i don't miss my trusty ASR-10, EPS, and ASR X Pro. that was one of the best companies of the era. shame e-mu bought them and destroyed them.

Yep...that is where my online name comes from. I still own an Ensoniq VFX-SD synth/sequencing system. The best machine of its kind when I bought it 10+ years ago. But now...GarageBand with a MIDI keyboard will blow it away.

Back to topic, we'll see some real reviews and analysis of GarageBand after it's actually been released and is in customer's hands. Until then, we're only guessing on the full capabilities of the program.

 

[martin]

And watch me and my mad eleet GarageBand skillz create beautiful muzic. Or should that be muzak

 

[ChrisH3677]

DavisBAnimal and Trekkie - spot on

Wayyyyy back in the late 80's when I Was most into music, I used the MIDI sequencing app Steinberg 24 (which evolved into Cubase) on an Atari ST and had no trouble coming to grips with it.

But somewhere things changed. Somewhere someone realised these things were too easy.

I've tried Fruity Loops, Acid, Cubase etc etc etc in the last four or five years as I've attempted to get back into some music making.

But they've confused the f**k out of me. And consequently discouraged me. Remember - I work in computers so usually understand software pretty quickly. Not so music apps. As Davis highlighted - to learn, they're the apps from hell.

My expectation of GB (and from watching the demos and reading everything AND knowing that Apple is excellent at making user-friendly software) I expect GarageBand to be a pleasure to use and that I will be able to rediscover the enjoyment I had in making music as I did with Steinberg.

And hopefully, GB, will help me learn the concepts of modern digital music production so that I can revisit the high end apps and actually understand them.

 

[pgwalsh]

Originally posted by tjwett
i really have no response to your post, just that your name is Ensoniq. are you a fan of the old Ensoniq keyboards and samplers? not a day goes by that i don't miss my trusty ASR-10, EPS, and ASR X Pro. that was one of the best companies of the era. shame e-mu bought them and destroyed them.

I loved my TS-10.. was sad the day I sold it.

 

[kanker]

Re: Re: Re: Useless

Originally posted by Torajima
I think a lot of musicians would like to use it as a musical scratchpad, and export it to a more professional app when needed.

I agree wholeheartedly I have Logic Gold 6.3.1 and Reason 2.5, and to be honest, I'm kinda geeked about getting GB. You can never have too many options, and for a couple of bucks, GB looks like a pretty cool option to have for any pro, much less an amature. GB will give me a new library of samples to work with, some I'm sure I'll even end up using live on gigs; it will give me a really easy way to teach my kid a thing or two about music and composition; and for your every day musician who may not be too heavy into pro level apps (intimidated or just not doing anything with huge audio needs), or your guy who just doesn't have the bread to pony up $500-1000 for software and interfaces, GB will provide a relatively intuitive tool to get ideas out. The one thing that would make it an invaluable tool for guys without the extra bread to get something more complex is if it would incorporate some kind of simple notation ability- don't know if it has that or not (probably not), but that would be cool. Chill out with the GB sucks stuff- not to lay out a bunch of hyperbole, but GB seems to be a pretty powerful app that can have a major impact not only on pros and hobbyists, but on future generations of kids as an introduction to music, composition, production, engineering....

 

[tjwett]

Originally posted by DavisBAnimal
...I'm going to tell you all right now that, come this Friday, I will begin work on my upcoming album, made entirely through GarageBand, nothing else, and set to drop, oh, say February 17th - and it is going to be HUGE...

 

[kanker]

Originally posted by DavisBAnimal
I can't for a moment figure this stuff out without a masters degree in computer jargon. I play the damn guitar

Ahhhh.....No more explanation needed.

 

[Torajima]

Originally posted by Audacity Works

As for MIDI export, you forget. Garage Band doesn't do MIDI. It sequences its internal softsynths, yes, but if you were to export that MIDI data into, say, Logic, the sounds wouldn't be there, since MIDI doesn't contain audio information. You'd have to reselect different softsynths, which would never sound exactly the same.

Well, contrary to early reports, Garageband apparently DOES do midi... the piano roll editor should be a dead giveaway. Software synths are recorded with midi. What it does not do, is allow you to use external synths via midi.

And I'm well aware of the strengths and limitations of midi. I don't expect exported midi to sound exactly the same... I wouldn't want it to. I suspect I've got access to better sounding hardware and software synths than come bundled with Garageband.

Or rather, if you have Logic, why use GarageBand at all? It's easier to use, but it's certainly not faster to get around.

Because Pro Audio software, while powerful, tends to be counterproductive to the creative process. When I have an idea for a new song, I don't want to spend 20 minutes setting everything up first. I want to play, I want to layer additional tracks, and I want to fix my mistakes (or keep 'em, if they turn out better than what I originally planned). I want to do this as quickly as possible, while I'm still inspired... I'll worry about effects and mixing and all that other garbage later.

Garageband would be ideal to use as this kind of scratchpad, but without some kind of midi import and export, it is useless TO MY NEEDS. Your mileage may vary...

 

[Torajima]

Originally posted by martin
News Flash: Consumer refuses to buy new software doesn't do exactly what he wants.

Actually, I'll probably buy it this weekend, as I don't really have a choice. It's bundled with the new versions of iMovie and iDVD, which I need since the last versions of both were buggy as hell.

Here's what to do: buy your pro app. Use it. Be happy.

Already own a pro audio app. Own a pro video app too, but I still use iMovie when I need to finish a simple project quickly.

FFS, do you hear Photoshop users bitching that MS Paint is useless because it doesn't export layered PSD files.

Bad comparison. Photoshop opens MS Paint files just fine. And yes, MS Paint *would* be useless if it only saved files in a proprietary format that no other graphics app could use.

I don't expect Garageband to export Logic or Digital Performer project files. Just midi, the most common file format that all sequencers use.

Midi import would be nice too... without it, there is no way to play my previously written songs in Garageband.

 

[Trekkie]

Originally posted by Torajima
Actually, I'll probably buy it this weekend, as I don't really have a choice. It's bundled with the new versions of iMovie and iDVD, which I need since the last versions of both were buggy as hell.

What on earth do you do with iMovie and iDVD that is buggy as hell? I edit, add captions, transitions, sound effects, music and add chapters with 0 problems with iMovie. Then when I burn them to iDVD I pick my themes, lay out my titles, add some photos and burn away.

iMovie 2.0 did crash on me on occasion loosing all the detail i'd done for the little film but never have I had a problem with the newer versions. Speed improvements are what has me interested in the newer versions.

 

[ChrisH3677]

Torajima

but? even if GB could export your keyboard tracks in midi, what about the loops and your own recorded audio such as guitars? Are the loops full samples? or midi sequences?

it's not possible in any app to export audio perfectly to midi - is it? (i've seen apps that try but do a pretty ordinary job)

and if it was possible to convert audio to midi - wouldn't Logic have an import feature that did it anyways? It would mean dumping one track at a time from GB to a format that Logic could import.

So maybe it's Logic (or whatever highend app you use) that has the problem.

edit: And if the loops are midi sequences, is it possible to send them to a midi-out channel? And then maybe you could capture them back.

edit: Just checked the website. The loops display as waveforms so are almost certainly audio. (Whereas as software instruments display as piano roll and so are sequences). So again - does Logic do audio to midi conversion? If not, why should GB?

 

[clcnyc]

Just how useless?

I have to admit I was really (and still am, although slightly less now after reading these posts) excited when I heard about Garage Band. My question is: can a singer benefit from this with just a keyboard?

 

[rt_brained]

Originally posted by DavisBAnimal
...Banana Muffin ports...

Oh my freakin' god, I am sooo getting that software.

 

[crazytom]

GarageBand made to be easy.

Let's think about this from the other side. If MIDI export were available, how easy would it be for your average user? Let's see, they'd have to have a MIDI out device, they'd have to have separate speakers for their keyboard---or a mixer so all sounds were coming from the same place, the samples would be worthless because each keyboard has different sounds, synch would be an issue, they'd have to properly set up their keyboard to work with MIDI (all the correct sounds in the correct banks, etc), and probably a bunch of other things that I'm leaving out. To your average user, MIDI is a nightmare...

Apple did the right thing. They made it simple. And, is the price right? $10 per app? Sure we got some of them for free before, but come on...there's screensavers that cost more than that and don't promise to be anywhere near as fun.

 

[Mantat]

Unless I am mistaken, iMovie doesnt export to FCE. Its the other way around, FCE IMPORT from iMovie. The same thing could be done by logic importing GB files.

You are so complaining for nothing! There is an evolution possible from GB even tho the target audience is totaly different.

Thats one thing I notice about musician. For some, the only way to be happy is to hear the 'perfect sound' while for the others, the joy of music is when they play.

GB is for the later group, it let you play with the music and do stuff you never thought you would be interested into.

Anyways, because of GB, I went to my parents house and took back my old electric guitar...

 

[pgwalsh]

Originally posted by Torajima
Well, contrary to early reports, Garageband apparently DOES do midi... the piano roll editor should be a dead giveaway. Software synths are recorded with midi. What it does not do, is allow you to use external synths via midi.

And I'm well aware of the strengths and limitations of midi. I don't expect exported midi to sound exactly the same... I wouldn't want it to. I suspect I've got access to better sounding hardware and software synths than come bundled with Garageband.

Because Pro Audio software, while powerful, tends to be counterproductive to the creative process. When I have an idea for a new song, I don't want to spend 20 minutes setting everything up first. I want to play, I want to layer additional tracks, and I want to fix my mistakes (or keep 'em, if they turn out better than what I originally planned). I want to do this as quickly as possible, while I'm still inspired... I'll worry about effects and mixing and all that other garbage later.

Garageband would be ideal to use as this kind of scratchpad, but without some kind of midi import and export, it is useless TO MY NEEDS. Your mileage may vary...

Everything you said is so right on, I couldn't agree more. You're 3rd is exactly how I feel.

I've almost gone to complete virtual instruments because of the irritation of exernal gear communicating with software. It was so much easier when I did everything on my TS-10 Workstation, but now softsynths are the future for me. No more external gear except for my new Edirol PCR-50... Must have knobs and sliders.

 

[Torajima]

Originally posted by ChrisH3677
Torajima

but? even if GB could export your keyboard tracks in midi, what about the loops and your own recorded audio such as guitars? Are the loops full samples? or midi sequences?

In a perfect world, Garageband could export individual tracks whether midi sequences or aif loops.

 

[Torajima]

Originally posted by Mantat
Unless I am mistaken, iMovie doesnt export to FCE. Its the other way around, FCE IMPORT from iMovie. The same thing could be done by logic importing GB files.

When you save a project in iMovie, it creates a quicktime compatible file that can be imported to Final Cut, Quicktime Pro, or any other video application.

You can also choose to export it to various video formats.

 

[Torajima]

Re: GarageBand made to be easy.

Originally posted by crazytom
Let's think about this from the other side. If MIDI export were available, how easy would it be for your average user? Let's see, they'd have to have a MIDI out device, they'd have to have separate speakers for their keyboard---or a mixer so all sounds were coming from the same place, the samples would be worthless because each keyboard has different sounds, synch would be an issue, they'd have to properly set up their keyboard to work with MIDI (all the correct sounds in the correct banks, etc), and probably a bunch of other things that I'm leaving out. To your average user, MIDI is a nightmare...

I don't think you understand just what it is I'm asking for. I'm not asking to control external midi devices with Garageband. I just want to be able to save (export) and open (import) plain old midi sequences. This does NOT require a midi out device, mixer, or seperate speakers. And people who don't need it never have to use it.

 

[crazytom]

Re: Re: GarageBand made to be easy.

Originally posted by Torajima
I don't think you understand just what it is I'm asking for. I'm not asking to control external midi devices with Garageband. I just want to be able to save (export) and open (import) plain old midi sequences. This does NOT require a midi out device, mixer, or seperate speakers. And people who don't need it never have to use it.

I see---my bad. On the bright side, there's nothing saying that you can't do that at this point. Since you can drag and drop AIFF, WAV, and MP3 from the Finder, I don't see any reason it can't go the other way: Take iPhoto for example, you can drag a picture from iPhoto to your desktop without going through a bunch of export options. I'd assume that Apple would use MIDI spec for their MIDI files and I'd assume that chances are good that you'll be able to do that (drag and drop MIDI).

Three more days!