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Splashman eats crow

Okay, I was all wet about thinking Apple wouldn't bother releasing this sort of thing because the market was too small. To those I debated this subject with, I humbly acknowledge, "I'm not worthy!"

Apple is certainly branching out, aren't they?
 
DVD drive required????!!!

While reading the fine print and system requirements for GarageBand, I spotted this:

"Important Notes:
DVD drive required to install GarageBand and iDVD"

I guess I'll have to run out and upgrade my kid's CRT iMac to a G5 with Superdrive in order for her to mess around with music in this "bargain" software suite:mad:
 
Re: DVD drive required????!!!

Originally posted by madvek
While reading the fine print and system requirements for GarageBand, I spotted this:

"Important Notes:
DVD drive required to install GarageBand and iDVD"

I guess I'll have to run out and upgrade my kid's CRT iMac to a G5 with Superdrive in order for her to mess around with music in this "bargain" software suite:mad:

I see you're right, didn't notice that. Why on Earth would GarageBand require a DVD drive??? It makes no sense.
 
Re: Re: DVD drive required????!!!

Originally posted by autrefois
I see you're right, didn't notice that. Why on Earth would GarageBand require a DVD drive??? It makes no sense.

Apple will probably tell you the reason is that all the loops, etc. wouldn't fit on a CD, so they're on a DVD. Of course, they could have split it up onto multiple CD's, right? Sounds a little fishy to me. Definitely limits their market, which is already very limited.

Hard to believe very many people will buy a new box just to run a cheap app.
 
Re: DVD drive required????!!!

Originally posted by madvek
While reading the fine print and system requirements for GarageBand, I spotted this:

"Important Notes:
DVD drive required to install GarageBand and iDVD"

I guess I'll have to run out and upgrade my kid's CRT iMac to a G5 with Superdrive in order for her to mess around with music in this "bargain" software suite:mad:

or to a "Refurrbed" iBook with a DVD drive...or refurrbed anything for that matter....if budget is really an issue as much of an issue as it sounds....I don't know why anyone looking for "bargain software" would skip all reasonable alternatives, jumping instead to the most expensive alternative possible.....think reasonable

sorry if this came off a bit hard, just kinda had it up to here *points* with people making irrational bashes....not that this one is irrational, just saying....
 
Re: Re: Re: DVD drive required????!!!

Originally posted by splashman
Apple will probably tell you the reason is that all the loops, etc. wouldn't fit on a CD, so they're on a DVD. Of course, they could have split it up onto multiple CD's, right? Sounds a little fishy to me. Definitely limits their market, which is already very limited.

Hard to believe very many people will buy a new box just to run a cheap app.

you are probalby right about the reason for putting it on a DVD, thats what came to my mind first, but as far as not putting them on multiple CDs, I can only imagine that the cost for that route was more than the cost for a DVD. Also, many recent apps have come from Apple in DVD form. I believe the Panther install disc was DVD (though I'm not sure) , and possibly Keynote. Correct me if I'm wrong.

But you can't honestly believe Apple expects everyone to buy a new computer just to run this (though you only implied it). Many people already have DVD drives and I do not think this to be an unreasonable requirement, especially in the age we live in. Every Apple machine comes with or has the option of a DVD drive, therefore this is a legitimate requirement. Kinda comparing apples to oranges, but if I have an old graphics card, and can't run any new games I can't run to the gaming producer and whine about them not producing things for my old system...technology moves....that's life.

(sorry for the double post)
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: DVD drive required????!!!

Originally posted by eyeluvmyimac
But you can't honestly believe Apple expects everyone to buy a new computer just to run this (though you only implied it).

No, I didn't imply it, and I didn't mention Apple in that paragraph. I said "Hard to believe very many people will buy a new box just to run a cheap app." That means "I don't think it's going to happen very much, if at all."
 
My $0.02

I realize not everyone is going to find this app useful, but as a musician, I think this is going to be such an amazing app! I have no problems paying $49 just for GarageBand, let alone the whole iLife suite!
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: DVD drive required????!!!

Originally posted by eyeluvmyimac
Kinda comparing apples to oranges, but if I have an old graphics card, and can't run any new games I can't run to the gaming producer and whine about them not producing things for my old system...technology moves....that's life.

(sorry for the double post)

It is apples and oranges though a little, like you said. They'd have to change the program in your scenario to account for a different graphics card. Here they'd just have to provide the installer on a couple of CDs instead of on one DVD.

They could I suppose charge $5 extra if you want it on CDs, for example. But requiring a DVD drive doesn't seem right since the program itself doesn't actually use the DVD drive.

I wonder if you go to an Apple Store, if they will burn it on CDs for you (probably not).

Steve Jobs pointed out that 60% of users still use OS 9, which surprised me. It wouldn't surprise me then if a good number of Mac owners on either platform (edit: I mean on either OS version) don't have a DVD drive yet, since it's only recently that all models have DVD as an option.

I hope they offer some alternative for people eventually.
 
what about firewire audio???

Nobody has asked whether GarageBand support Firewire audio interface. Nothing is said about Firewire interface on Apple's GB website unfortunately.

I'll be very very very upset if GarageBand won't interface with Firewire audio devices. With the price of these things coming down quick (~$350 for an M-Audio FW410), they have become very accessible to amatuer musicians. I hope Apple didn't intentionally cripple GB by limiting it to USB devices only.
 
Hey guys,

I work in a high-profile independent music store that caters to everyone from complete newbies all the way to world-famous rock stars and film composers. Multiple times every day I get some 14-year-old kid or 45-year-old yuppie into the store asking "Uh... how do I make music on my computer?"

"Well, there are many ways. What kind of computer do you have?"

"Uh... I dunno. It's kinda' beige."

At this point, the first thing I do is give them my 6-page "Computer Recording Made Relatively Simple" brochure and say "Well, I can babble for about twenty minutes or you can sit and read this thing."

Most of us aren't dumb. But some of my customers are D-U-M-B. Nice people, genuinely passionate people, but complete luddites nevertheless. These are the people who need GarageBand. They need GarageBand.

They need something that doesn't have MIDI out, because along with MIDI out comes local control, MIDI channels, MIDI ports, multitimbrality, polyphony, and dozens more.

They need something that doesn't support multiple inputs, because with multiple inputs come third-party drivers, routing, bussing, and setting buffers.

And can you imagine Apple tech support having to field thousands of calls from people who don't understand why their Roland keyboard's sounds won't play from their computer speakers?

"Sir? No, you see, MIDI doesn't send any audio signals. The sound of the keyboard stays in the keyboard."

"Whatta ya mean? How can I hear it then?"

"Well, sir, you have to have the speakers hooked up to the keyboard."

"Huh? I gotta get another set of speakers? That's crap! This $50 software makes me buy a $60 set of speakers?"

"Well, you could hook both the output of the keyboard and the output of the computer into a mixer and then send that to a single pair of speakers. You can find mixers for around $50."

"Huh? But there's a mixer on the screen!"

"No, sir, that's only for the tracks that are already recorded in the computer. You still need a hardware mixer to hear multiple pieces of gear through the same set of speakers."

"But I gots the keyboard goin' into the MIDI!"

>sigh!<

Thank GOD Garage Band doesn't support MIDI out. Thank GOD Garage Band doesn't support recording more than one or two tracks. It shouldn't. It should be braindead simple to operate like iPhoto.

Speaking of which, professional photograpers don't use iPhoto to remove red-eye just like professional musicians won't use GarageBand to record their masterpieces. And that's a good thing.

Logic Big Box is only $199. It contains Logic Audio, EXSP24 sample player, EVP76 digital piano, ES1 softsynth, and an EXS sample library. It may very well be the most in-depth software bundle for the money ever conceived, in any category of software. It's immensely powerful. And again, it's $199. No one should ever complain.
 
How long until...

Soundtrack 2.0 comes out and fills the Prosumer music app niche. It's all ready there at the $299 price point.

Do you guys think we'll see Soundtrack really "bring it" and become "Logic Express". I'm not a musician, I just got Soundtrack bundled with FCP. I wouldn't mind losing Soundtrack out of the FCP bundle if it meant Soundtrack became a really great app in its own right and gained the features you musicians seem to be missing in GarageBand.

So when is the next big Audio show?
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: DVD drive required????!!!

Originally posted by autrefois
Steve Jobs pointed out that 60% of users still use OS 9, which surprised me. It wouldn't surprise me then if a good number of Mac owners on either platform (edit: I mean on either OS version) don't have a DVD drive yet, since it's only recently that all models have DVD as an option.

I hope they offer some alternative for people eventually.

Well Garageband require 10.2 or later so people with OS9 are already out of luck regardless of dvd drives. Ah well, can't please everyone now can we? If it were 7 cd's people would be moaning about "why didn't they just give us a dvd, i hate dealing with all these discs, and installing them each" etc etc etc....life....
 
Originally posted by Audacity Works
Most of us aren't dumb. But some of my customers are D-U-M-B. Nice people, genuinely passionate people, but complete luddites nevertheless. These are the people who need GarageBand. They need GarageBand.
I never thought about your point before: If GarageBand was much fancier, it would be giving people more rope to hang themselves!

By the way, luddite is the wrong word to use for your techno-newbie customers who ask how to make music on their computers. Luddites are purposely against technology. The word comes from the group in England in 1811 thru 1816 who organized against technological advances in the textile industry. Luddite now means anyone who is against technological advances. Ted Kaczynski the Unabomber is a luddite with lots of brain power, to give an extreme example.
 
Originally posted by TheAnswer Soundtrack 2.0 comes out and fills the Prosumer music app niche. It's all ready there at the $299 price point.

So when is the next big Audio show?
The NAMM show starts next Thursday in Anaheim. Don't know if Apple will have a dedicated booth apart from Emagic or not-- Flying out there Wednesday night.

The problem with Soundtrack is that-- well, to be perfectly honest, it's kinda cheesy. It's not professional. It's not compositional software. It's loop-arranging software. And it never should've cost $300. It's ACID-lite for the Mac.

Of course, that doesn't mean I didn't buy it or don't use (and thoroughly enjoy) it! ;)

But really, Soundtrack is nothing like Logic. Soundtrack is for kids who want to layer pre-recorded pieces of music already written and performed by other people but are too lazy to match the tempi and keys. It's great fun, and can result in some fantastic-sounding material, but no one can ever say they wrote or composed a song in Soundtrack.

What's weird is that it seems like GarageBand is now more powerful than Soundtrack. And it's free. Don't get it. So the $300 difference is based on how many loops are included?:confused:
 
Originally posted by Doctor Q
By the way, luddite is the wrong word to use for your techno-newbie customers who ask how to make music on their computers.
Oops, you are correct, sir! My fingers were faster than my brain-- meant to type technophobe. Thanks. :)
 
I am interested in purchasing the M-Audio Firewire 410 to go along with FCP 4 and Garageband. Is it compatable?

Also, what differentitates GB and Soundtrack? Steve said that Soundtrack was basically inside of GB. Do you see Soundtrack becoming a more "pro" audio app (it would be about time!)?

If so, when? I don't want to wait around forever for Apple to announce something...

Other than these minor questions, I am thrilled with iLife '04 and can't wait to get my hands on it!
 
Originally posted by Audacity Works
meant to type technophobe
No, that's wrong too. A technophobe is someone who is afraid of Friday the 13th. On no, wait... That's a paraskavedekatriaphobe. Never mind. You were right!
 
is that wood grain i'm seeing?

That's a new look for Apple.
 

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Originally posted by Audacity Works
The problem with Soundtrack is that-- well, to be perfectly honest, it's kinda cheesy.

What's weird is that it seems like GarageBand is now more powerful than Soundtrack.

That's exactly how I feel about Soundtrack and exactly how I feel about the relationship between the two...so I'm just guessing/hoping Soundtrack 2.0 will perhaps move more into a more robust middle ground app.

Although if they really make it a musicians tool and not a filmmakers tinker-toy, they gotta change the icon (and maybe even the name).
 
Originally posted by TheAnswer
Although if they really make it a musicians tool and not a filmmakers tinker-toy, they gotta change the icon (and maybe even the name).

I believe that soundtrack supports SMPTE timecode for precise syncing of music to video. Also, I believe there's a video preview window in Soundtrack that lets you watch the video as you're 'composing' the music.

I don't think GarageBand has these feaatures.
 
Originally posted by Harry Frishberg
I am interested in purchasing the M-Audio Firewire 410 to go along with FCP 4 and Garageband. Is it compatable?

I don't plan to get FCP 4 but I have M-Audio FW410, two of them as matter of fact. I only need one and the other is sitting in the shipping box unopened. I'm therefore very eager to find out whether GB is compatible with with it. Where are you located? If you are near NJ maybe we can strike a deal.
 
Originally posted by Flowbee
I believe that soundtrack supports SMPTE timecode for precise syncing of music to video. Also, I believe there's a video preview window in Soundtrack that lets you watch the video as you're 'composing' the music.

I don't think GarageBand has these feaatures.

The video preview and timecode syncing are two features not in GarageBand and you do get more loops with Soundtrack.

However, Soundtrack in it's current form lacks many of the features of GarageBand...such as virtual instruments. There are also features, such as MIDI out that neither product currently offers. Since Soundtrack was released last April (as part of the FCP 4 bundle), it's not unreasonable to expect an updated product that adds in GarageBand features and a few others.
 
personally i think that the role of the iLife suite is to fill two hats:

First, they are built to be great apps that anyone and everyone can quickly use. lets face it, there isn't a lot of worthy compitition in this arena. what other hardware or OS company bundels apps of this quality with thier products? and if you want to just buy all 5 apps, they are still very moderatly priced.

Second, the true upgrade. my personal belief is three of the five iLife apps are really designed to be stepping stones. itunes and iphoto excluded, don't you find it more plausable that iDVD, iMovie and Garageband are intro apps into buying apps that are much better (and profitable for apple)?

For example - Don't think that imovie has all the features to handle your new big movie - Get Final Cut Express it is *only* $300. after a while you realize that you wish you had some of the neato features of Final Cut Pro... time to shell out $1000. THIS IS APPLE'S MASTER PLAN.

I mean they make a really great app like garageband but INTENTIONALLY leave out pro features. why buy the pro version when the free one has all the pro features. They need to create an upgrade path and also a reason to upgrade.

There is a simular story for iDVD to DVD studio pro and garageband to soundtrack/logic. They keep the interfaces simular to the high end pro apps so when you want to upgrade you feel more comfortable staying in the apple apps family.

I realize that for many people the iLife suite will be the ideal solution for all of thier needs. For others it can be enough to motivate them to make the windows to mac switch - again really good statagy for apple. on the other hand if apple can sell 5% more of their pro apps(per year) becouse of the iLife apps... then this could really help apple all around.

the beauty of it, is as you upgrade from imovie to FCE and then to FCP you realize idvd and garageband don't work for you anymore. you also realize that you suddenly have a real need for a new g5 desktop. i am fairly confident that this is a huge part of Apple's sales and marketing stratagy.

Apple is a great company and makes great products... but they do so for one reason... revenue.

at least that is my opionin.
Eric
 
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