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WilliamDu

macrumors 6502
May 22, 2012
267
98
I have a Generac electric or manual start 5200 KW portable generator which connects to a transfer switch next to the main power panel in the house through a cable temporarily coiled near the back garage door where the generator is stored in the garage. It replaced a B&S which failed after three years. Our local dealer sells hundreds of Generacs to apparently pleased customers. Generac also markets whole house automatics if you can afford one.

When power fails, we give Maine Power Company an hour or so and then we wheel the generator out the door into the back yard, start it up and plug in the cable, manually switch the power to the household circuits connected by the electrician that installed the transfer box and we have power to our well pump, furnace/hot water heater, freezer, two freezer/refrigerators, the master bedroom and one kitchen outlet. The wall outlets for the refrigerators and freezer can also be used temporarily for small appliances or lamps when needed.

Total cost about $1,200 for the generator, installed transfer box and cable. The Generac starts electrically instantly, or easily manually if the battery has lost its charge on which we keep a trickle charge occasionally.

The Generac uses about ten gallons of standard octane gasoline a day. We keep about 12 gallons stored in plastic containers which can be replenished from local gas stations if power is out longer. You have to use stabilizers in the fuel in both the generator tank and stored containers for long term storage.

This system has performed flawlessly like new so far here in Mid-coast Maine for five years during power failures varying between several hours to five days. We place a card table over it when it snows or rains. A carport would prevent needing to do that. The thing might not mind the precipitation but I prefer to protect it. Power failure in Maine winters for more than a few hours is an emergency, particularly if you are on a well as we are.

A neighbor across the street has an automatic, whole house propane powered system which I greatly envy, but can't afford. My system works, but is a pain in the a-- because Maine chose to put their power lines up amongst the huge and gorgeous forests we have instead of underground, resulting in lots of power failures.

If I had it to do over again, I'd have put in a system like my neighbor's and skimped on the Miller's for a while.
They take up very little space. The propane tank is bigger than the generator unless you already have the propane or natural gas installed. They are also a lot quieter than the portables.
 
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JamesMike

macrumors 603
Nov 3, 2014
6,473
6,102
Oregon
I agree about the Generac generators, mine work very well on propane, they are worth the expense. The important point is they have never failed to work.
 

Huntn

macrumors Core
May 5, 2008
23,968
27,051
The Misty Mountains
Ok, I leaped and ordered a Westinghouse 7500 DF Portable Generator. It was about $150 more than a straight gasoline generator. I wanted the option to go propane, but I have no idea if running it on propane is realistic yet. This article says propane is more economical, but I don’t know if that applies to my situation or if portable propane bottles hold enough to be practical.




Regarding fuel consumption does anyone have experience running their generator on propane? I’m curious about methods, type bottle, and how much your generator uses per day.

My impression is that the more items I power, results in more fuel consumption. I considered the possibility of running the central air, but some brief general research indicates central air can use 3500-5000 watts, which is too much. instead I’ve opted for a portable AC unit., Whynter ARC-14S 14,000 BTU Dual Hose Portable Air Conditioner that uses about 1300 watts.

So far:
  • Refrigerator: 750 watts.
  • Portable AC unit: 1300 watts.
  • Pool pump?
  • TV?
  • Computer?
  • Cable modem/Router?
  • 2 house circuits that cover ceiling fans. Not that the internet or the cable would be up in any particular scenario.
 
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MacNut

macrumors Core
Jan 4, 2002
22,998
9,976
CT
If you are running on propane you need a big tank, the tank for your grill won't be enough.
 

Huntn

macrumors Core
May 5, 2008
23,968
27,051
The Misty Mountains
If you are running on propane you need a big tank, the tank for your grill won't be enough.
I read that 300 pound tanks in some States are required to be 10’ from the property line. That rules my entire backyard out, although there night be one spot.

On Monday, I will call a propane tank dealer and my neighborhood association and ask. The big question is how much and how long would such a tank run a generator?
 

aristobrat

macrumors G5
Oct 14, 2005
12,292
1,403
For unexpected short-term outages, being about toss an extra “BBQ grill” sized propane tank in the garage and not have to think about it until it’s needed is (to me) more convenient than having to add stabilizer to most gas (for storage) then keeping track of the dates/rotating the stabilized gas when it gets closer to expiration.

I bought my Westinghouse inverter generator (iGen4500) back in 2018. Other than testing it quickly here or there, I didn’t get to use it “for real” until a few weeks ago when Hurricane Isaias knocked out power for six hours. With it hooked directly to the breaker box (using a Square D interlock kit) and us running all of the normal 110W things in the house (ceiling fans, lights, TVs, electronics, fridge, etc) the generator display showed the load as being between 800-1100W. We were able to throw an extension cord over the fence to a neighborhood so they could run their fridge, bumping it up to 1000-1300W. We were just about to hook up a window A/C unit when the power came back on, so didn’t get to try that. For the six hours we ran on that load, I’d est we used about 1.5 gallons of gas.

Since our inverter is older and not dual-fuel, we keep five gallons of stabilized gas in the garage for unexpected outages. Almost all of that gas goes unused (by the generator) and gets dumped into one of our vehicles at the end of the year and then we get fresh gas + stabilize it again.

If we’re in the cone of a predicted storm, we’ll top off the gas tanks in our three vehicles a day or so before the storm. This gives us access to 40+ gallons of fresh gas (with enough buffer to be able to drive a good amount). The gas is easy to get at with a fuel siphon and since 99% of the time it’s not needed, it’ll get used by driving the vehicles... no need to stabilize it or deal with keeping eight extra 5-gallon gas containers around.
 
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Nhwhazup

macrumors 68040
Sep 2, 2010
3,472
1,718
New Hampshire
How much of the house does this generator power? Does flipping the switch tie it into the entire house, and you just have to watch what you turn on? For a portable generator I think wanting to power the house AC unit and furnace is a stretch, not implying you suggested that. I acknowledge that a switch that connects to what you want it to connect to would be great. It would be fairly easy to to tie in a couple wall of receptacles circuits and the refrigerator to such a switch And would be much more convenient than dragging extension cords from the outside to inside.

We have 8 transfer switches. Our portable generator runs our furnace/boiler/hot water, submersible well pump, refrigerator, microwave, kitchen plugs and lights, living room plugs which runs TV and internet, 3 bathrooms all plugs and lights.

So this way we pretty much run what we need. We use the bedrooms for sleeping so we don’t have them included. And we don’t have the washer and dryer on the generator. We don’t have central AC

Being in NH we tend to lose our power in the winter from bad snow or ice storms.

We also make sure windows are closed when running the generator outside so not to get carbon monoxide in the house.
 
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Huntn

macrumors Core
May 5, 2008
23,968
27,051
The Misty Mountains
Question: Does a gas water heater with a lit pilot light need electrical to work? The good news is that it’s located in the attic and the water stays hot enough to bath with. :)

We have 8 transfer switches. Our portable generator runs our furnace/boiler/hot water, submersible well pump, refrigerator, microwave, kitchen plugs and lights, living room plugs which runs TV and internet, 3 bathrooms all plugs and lights.

So this way we pretty much run what we need. We use the bedrooms for sleeping so we don’t have them included. And we don’t have the washer and dryer on the generator. We don’t have central AC

Being in NH we tend to lose our power in the winter from bad snow or ice storms.

We also make sure windows are closed when running the generator outside so not to get carbon monoxide in the house.
My concern is for warm/hot weather. I purchased a 7500W/9500 watt peak dual fuel generator.
I decided I did not want to power the central air as too large a load so bought a portable AC unit (1300W). My ultimate goal is to stay as frugal as possible to reduce gasoline consumption. Goal is to power the fridge, portable AC, Internet, TV, a circuit or two of recepticals/lights, possibly the microwave. We has a gas stove, and a gas water heater.

Ordered a transfer switch with 6 switches. They are backlogged and I might not get it for a month.


For unexpected short-term outages, being about toss an extra “BBQ grill” sized propane tank in the garage and not have to think about it until it’s needed is (to me) more convenient than having to add stabilizer to most gas (for storage) then keeping track of the dates/rotating the stabilized gas when it gets closer to expiration.

I bought my Westinghouse inverter generator (iGen4500) back in 2018. Other than testing it quickly here or there, I didn’t get to use it “for real” until a few weeks ago when Hurricane Isaias knocked out power for six hours. With it hooked directly to the breaker box (using a Square D interlock kit) and us running all of the normal 110W things in the house (ceiling fans, lights, TVs, electronics, fridge, etc) the generator display showed the load as being between 800-1100W. We were able to throw an extension cord over the fence to a neighborhood so they could run their fridge, bumping it up to 1000-1300W. We were just about to hook up a window A/C unit when the power came back on, so didn’t get to try that. For the six hours we ran on that load, I’d est we used about 1.5 gallons of gas.

Since our inverter is older and not dual-fuel, we keep five gallons of stabilized gas in the garage for unexpected outages. Almost all of that gas goes unused (by the generator) and gets dumped into one of our vehicles at the end of the year and then we get fresh gas + stabilize it again.

If we’re in the cone of a predicted storm, we’ll top off the gas tanks in our three vehicles a day or so before the storm. This gives us access to 40+ gallons of fresh gas (with enough buffer to be able to drive a good amount). The gas is easy to get at with a fuel siphon and since 99% of the time it’s not needed, it’ll get used by driving the vehicles... no need to stabilize it or deal with keeping eight extra 5-gallon gas containers around.
I’m investigating having a propane tank installed in my back yard, if that is practical.
 
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aristobrat

macrumors G5
Oct 14, 2005
12,292
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jeyf

macrumors 68020
Jan 20, 2009
2,173
1,044
maybe too late now seems you already bought one but:
we just sold off a portable Honda generator. it sat in the garage for >10 years never used. thank god for ebay.

pool pump motors are like 1hp+ and their load is highly inductive. The motor starting current is very high too. in the case of an outage, after the weather clears, i would put a pool cover on and shock treat the water every few days if you cant run the pool pump.


reference the op's text:
"Question: Does a gas water heater with a lit pilot light need electrical to work?"

your over thinking this. keep life simple.
 
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Huntn

macrumors Core
May 5, 2008
23,968
27,051
The Misty Mountains
maybe too late now seems you already bought one but:
we just sold off a portable Honda generator. it sat in the garage for >10 years never used. thank god for ebay.

pool pump motors are like 1hp+ and their load is highly inductive. The motor starting current is very high too. in the case of an outage, after the weather clears, i would put a pool cover on and shock treat the water every few days if you cant run the pool pump.


reference the op's text:
"Question: Does a gas water heater with a lit pilot light need electrical to work?"

your over thinking this. keep life simple.

Not really, no plans to power it, that was just a trivia question. :)
Regarding the pool, at my house the pool related pumps sit on a 50 amp circuit breaker. No interest in trying to power that. The pool people said to just throw a chlorine tablet in the pool, and keeping it clean (while swimming) until power comes back, would be something to keep me busy. :)
 

ActionableMango

macrumors G3
Sep 21, 2010
9,612
6,909
I’m investigating having a propane tank installed in my back yard, if that is practical.

You mentioned a natural gas stovetop, doesn't that mean you have natural gas to the house?

If so, I'd get a natural gas generator and not have to worry about refueling. Just run a natural gas tap to your deck and hook up your generator to that. Also you can get a natural gas grill and never have to worry about refueling it either.

I know there is a high cost associated with running a line, but there's going to be a high cost to having a propane tank installed too, not to mention the space it will take up.

Here is a tri-fuel portable generator in your power range:
 
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Huntn

macrumors Core
May 5, 2008
23,968
27,051
The Misty Mountains
You mentioned a natural gas stovetop, doesn't that mean you have natural gas to the house?

If so, I'd get a natural gas generator and not have to worry about refueling. Just run a natural gas tap to your deck and hook up your generator to that. Also you can get a natural gas grill and never have to worry about refueling it either.

I know there is a high cost associated with running a line, but there's going to be a high cost to having a propane tank installed too.
I do have natural gas which would be the ultimate in convenience, but my investigation as to the configuration of my home and available space for a tied in home generator appears it appears to be an $8-10k investment for the natural gas (the generator itself is $5k), vs a >$2000 investiment for a portable generator. My dentist told me they were quoted $20k for a whole home generator solution. The last event in my neighborhood that resulted in power out for several days to over a week was Hurricane Ike (2008). We did not lose power for Harvey which hung around for 3 days. I could just not justify the expense.
 

jeyf

macrumors 68020
Jan 20, 2009
2,173
1,044
but you would know your ready for anything
you are missing out I tell you.
 

ActionableMango

macrumors G3
Sep 21, 2010
9,612
6,909
I do have natural gas which would be the ultimate in convenience, but my investigation as to the configuration of my home and available space for a tied in home generator appears it appears to be an $8-10k investment for the natural gas (the generator itself is $5k), vs a >$2000 investiment for a portable generator. My dentist told me they were quoted $20k for a whole home generator solution. The last event in my neighborhood that resulted in power out for several days to over a week was Hurricane Ike (2008). We did not lose power for Harvey which hung around for 3 days. I could just not justify the expense.

No, I mean a tri-fuel portable generator like the one I linked to. Much, much cheaper then a tied in solution.

There are also natural gas carburetor conversion kits available for a few hundred bucks. You might be able to find one compatible with your current generator so you can switch to this later. So really you're only looking at cost of a conversion kit and cost to run gas line to generator location.
 
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Huntn

macrumors Core
May 5, 2008
23,968
27,051
The Misty Mountains
No, I mean a tri-fuel portable generator like the one I linked to. Much, much cheaper then a tied in solution.

There are also natural gas carburetor conversion kits available for a few hundred bucks. You might be able to find one compatible with your current generator so you can switch to this later. So really you're only looking at cost of a conversion kit and cost to run gas line to generator location.
If you have a link that would be great, I‘ll research it too. :)

 
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ActionableMango

macrumors G3
Sep 21, 2010
9,612
6,909

Huntn

macrumors Core
May 5, 2008
23,968
27,051
The Misty Mountains
I would look to this reseller, in part because they have active discussion forums where you can do additional research and ask questions.
https://www.uscarburetion.com/
https://uscarb.websitetoolbox.com/?forum=192816

One thing to be aware of is that the generator's electrical output rating is based on using gasoline. I've heard that when using natural gas or propane it is less powerful.
That last statement is true. Thanks for your suggestions. I had given up on natural gas, and it looks like, natural gas might now work as an option. I’m talking to contractors to extend the natural gas line in our kitchen to a fitting on the outside if the house. :D
 

Huntn

macrumors Core
May 5, 2008
23,968
27,051
The Misty Mountains
Is a anyone here running a generator that has been converted from gasoline to include natural gas? I’d like to hear about your experience with it.
 

Schismz

macrumors 6502
Sep 4, 2010
343
395
My house has a whole house generator. Its pretty cool cuz when the power goes out I continue on with what I was doing. But other then that I dont know anything else about the generator.
Same, Generac runs on propane. Need UPS for Mac Pro and various other electronics because there is a 5-8 second delay before generator kicks in.
 

Nhwhazup

macrumors 68040
Sep 2, 2010
3,472
1,718
New Hampshire
I do have natural gas which would be the ultimate in convenience, but my investigation as to the configuration of my home and available space for a tied in home generator appears it appears to be an $8-10k investment for the natural gas (the generator itself is $5k), vs a >$2000 investiment for a portable generator. My dentist told me they were quoted $20k for a whole home generator solution. The last event in my neighborhood that resulted in power out for several days to over a week was Hurricane Ike (2008). We did not lose power for Harvey which hung around for 3 days. I could just not justify the expense.

I totally agree with you. We have had the portable generator now for 12 years and have maybe used it 5 times and never longer than a few hours each time. It’s simple to use with the transfer switches and powers everything in the house we need. We couldn’t justify the price of a full house generator. It’s all relative. If you have a million dollar home then 20k is chump change.
 
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ActionableMango

macrumors G3
Sep 21, 2010
9,612
6,909
I have a Honda portable generator powered by gasoline. I basically hate it.

Gasoline is smelly and it requires having a large portable gas can. Modern gas cans all have those terrible filler gimmicks which guarantee you spill gasoline all over the place. Gasoline also goes bad over time, so (A) you need to keep it around just in case, but (B) you can't really keep it around. If you leave gas in the generator's fuel system, the carbs get plugged up and it doesn't work. So you have to drain it out or flip the valve and let it run dry. If you leave gas in the generator's gas tank, it will turn into varnish and goo. So now you also have to drain it out and put it in your car, or remember to stabilize it once a year with stabilizer.

Let's say it's going to be a short outage. Well, all that hassle isn't worth it, so I just live without power for a while. Ironic I've paid for a generator, wiring, and transfer switch only to not use it.

Let's say it's going to be a long outage. Well now you've got the problem of keeping it supplied. Gotta go do gas runs, which is a hassle. Smelly container with useless spout is a constant annoyance. Also the gas stations in my town don't have generators, so if my power is out, their power is out. I need to drive to the next city.

None of these problems apply to natural gas. Just hook up and run. And keep in mind, I'm suggesting a natural gas solution that costs a few hundred bucks, not $20,000.

I would totally convert myself, given how much I hate gas-fueled generators. But the contractor says my gas pipes are too small. They are rated for the number of taps I already have and he cannot add another within code. Doing so would cause low pressure issues.
 

Nhwhazup

macrumors 68040
Sep 2, 2010
3,472
1,718
New Hampshire
I have a Honda portable generator powered by gasoline. I basically hate it.

Gasoline is smelly and it requires having a large portable gas can. Modern gas cans all have those terrible filler gimmicks which guarantee you spill gasoline all over the place. Gasoline also goes bad over time, so (A) you need to keep it around just in case, but (B) you can't really keep it around. If you leave gas in the generator's fuel system, the carbs get plugged up and it doesn't work. So you have to drain it out or flip the valve and let it run dry. If you leave gas in the generator's gas tank, it will turn into varnish and goo. So now you also have to drain it out and put it in your car, or remember to stabilize it once a year with stabilizer.

Let's say it's going to be a short outage. Well, all that hassle isn't worth it, so I just live without power for a while. Ironic I've paid for a generator, wiring, and transfer switch only to not use it.

Let's say it's going to be a long outage. Well now you've got the problem of keeping it supplied. Gotta go do gas runs, which is a hassle. Smelly container with useless spout is a constant annoyance. Also the gas stations in my town don't have generators, so if my power is out, their power is out. I need to drive to the next city.

None of these problems apply to natural gas. Just hook up and run. And keep in mind, I'm suggesting a natural gas solution that costs a few hundred bucks, not $20,000.

I would totally convert myself, given how much I hate gas-fueled generators. But the contractor says my gas pipes are too small. They are rated for the number of taps I already have and he cannot add another within code. Doing so would cause low pressure issues.

We’ve had our portable gasoline generator for 15 years. Have used it maybe 8 times for power outages and started it up just to run it 5 other times. We don’t drain the gas or do anything special with it. Maybe we are just lucky, but we’ve never had a problem with the generator. And like I’ve mentioned before, it’s simple to plug it into the house (right outside the garage), start it up and flip the 8 transfer switches in the basement. My husband usually does it but I have also started it when he wasn’t home. Simple, easy and 1/5 the price of an automatic propane full house generator. My neighbor across the street with the full house propane one has also had to get his serviced several times since he moved in 10 years ago.

I guess it’s all about personal preference.
 
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