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drjsway

macrumors 6502a
Jan 8, 2009
936
2
No, they don't deserve it, and you make a great point that I've thought about a lot before. The problem is, where else are you going to find a user experience as elegant and enjoyable as that provided by OS X on a Mac? OS X on a Hackintosh? No. Definitely not Windows in any flavor, and while Linux/FreeBSD/etc are great operating systems with which I've spent a lot of time, they can't touch OS X on ease of use for normal, everyday tasks. And while Gnome and KDE are both great graphical environments that keep improving, they still look like crap next to Aqua.

It's all OS X. Remove that OS quality from the user experience and Apple loses me and millions of others as customers overnight. But while it's there and doing what it does best, it's hard to not buy another Apple computer, because what are the alternatives?

OS X is great but Windows 7 isn't that bad. I would switch in a heartbeat if someone made a much sexier wintel machine but so far, no one has matched Apple in design.

If Dell had originally made the MacBook Air instead of Apple (I guess it would be called Dell Air), I would be a PC user already.
 

caonimadebi

macrumors regular
May 7, 2009
216
1
I almost wish that I would have kept the second one. If number four has bad lines, I will buy a refurb 1.86/SSD for $1449. Many of those don't have the 9C90! I would take a 1.86/SSD with 9C8F over a 2.13/SSD for $1799 with lines.

If you need 2.13 GHz, go with the one you have. The first one I opened was completely terrible. The second was very faint only noticeable on white.

dood how much restocking fee have you forked over to apple for an obviously defective product??
 

entatlrg

macrumors 68040
Mar 2, 2009
3,385
6
Waterloo & Georgian Bay, Canada
UPDATE: Just reverted back to default Apple profile (Color LCD) and saw very very faint lines. I went back to my calibrated settings (with 2.2 gamma) and lines were gone.

I did the same thing and haven't followed everyone's comments about the lines since ...

When I got my MBA I noticed the washed out screen and faint lines as people mention here, so I went in and changed the settings until I have the clear / vibrant display I'm used to on a Mac ... since then no problems.

The Air Displays in the stores look horrible, but it's not a "Apple low quality/line issue" it's that they need to adjust their displays... that's it!

Maybe that will solve some people's problems with noticing lines on the screen?
 

Balthezor

macrumors member
Sep 11, 2008
90
0
PA
I went to the Apple store on Tuesday to see the Rev Cs. They didn't have it in stock yet, but they had a Rev B on display. The lines were faint, but still there. Checked the model, it was 9C8F.

I have had three MBAs:

Rev A, 1.6 HDD - 2/08 - 9C73 - no lines.
Rev B, 1.86 SDD - 10/08 - 9C9A - no lines - logic board failed after a four months and Apple replaced it with another...
Rev B, 1.86 SDD - 3/09 - 9C90 - no lines.

UPDATE: Just reverted back to default Apple profile (Color LCD) and saw very very faint lines. I went back to my calibrated settings (with 2.2 gamma) and lines were gone.

Apple's default profile is very washed out on all their computers, so that explains why lines are more noticeable. I can't check my first Rev B on the default profile (since I don't have it anymore), but my Rev A has no lines, even with default profile.

Everyone should change their gamma to 2.2 regardless. 1.8 is very outdated and I don't know why Apple still ships macs with it as default.


This made me happy. Thank you drjsway. I'm gonna test this on the Apple store demos. If the line is barely noticeable, then I'm back with the Air.


Anyone else try this?
 

macinsomniac

macrumors member
May 17, 2009
48
0
If this whole line hysteria is really only an issue of calibration, then it is really unfortunate that so many decisions are being governed by it.
 

Scottsdale

Suspended
Original poster
Sep 19, 2008
4,473
283
U.S.A.
Well, from everything I have read, I am convinced it is the flow of power to the display. I believe that Apple is so concerned about battery conservation that they may have limited the power that flows to the display below optimal needed for a perfect output for the user. I have read a lot about it, and in the last month seen plenty of rev B's with lines (mostly 9c90). I have seen one 9c9a with almost non-existent lines but terrible backlighting. I saw one 9c8f yesterday which looked as beautiful as I remembered my rev B (9c9a - perfect).

Going back to power possibilities makes me think. I have extremely limited electrical/power knowledge, so this may be a stupid question. Is it possible that the wires supplying power to the display are low-grade, improper gauge, connected improperly? We are dealing with what I assume is tiny current of power to the display. Could even poorly QC/engineering specs of the cable(s) alter this power enough to produce the lines. We know Apple loves inflating battery performance "facts." Apple may cut corners or know of a solution but that may destroy its Gold Star energy rating (whatever it's called)! It would not surprise me one bit if this is a simple firmware fix to tell the logic board to let more juice flow from battery through to display. If that is the case, we would probably not see an update/firmware fix until the new MBA becomes a previous generation.

I wonder if the calibration settings changes fix the lines often. I can easily see how the vast majority of MBA owners have no clue the lines are there to begin with. It is almost more like a resolution issue or a problem with the page browsing that might look off to someone who doesn't know these are lines. Also, spotting it takes a sharp eye that is used to looking at a high end display without lines. Place an MBA next to a 24" LED ACD, and the lines would jump off the display. The problem here too is that we are probably an extelremely small group of buyers who can see it, know it truly shouldn't be there, and are picky because doesn't really affect the experience most of the time. The second one had to have a white background, and really appeared as almost a resolution issue or faint perfectly lined up fingerprint lines as someone else stated.

I did read about someone who supposedly fixed the lines with calibration but when his friend pointed out the lines in seconds he realized his vision wasn't good enough to see it as it was extremely faint. For him, it was a fix! I think some of us perfectionist are looking to be upset if something is wrong, and we will go at lengths to find something wrong. I thought this was a minor problem for the first five months I heard about it, but I thought we all needed a perfect Air for this price. Now, I realize that it would be far too annoying to look at daily once one has observed the lines. Think of a dead pixel - one cannot usually see unless running through pixel checker. Yet once spotted, it's all the user sees!

I wonder if I will be able to try another MBA since this one is number three and doesn't work at all. The supervisor said I could return three with no stocking fee if had visible lines to one of three "Geniuses," so I think three will be unit four???

If not, I will return home empty handed, and I will go buy online... and hopefully get three more tries. I truly feel everyone else's pain with lines right now. I didn't understand the frustration until now, as I had owned a rev B w/SSD/1.86 with a stunning display. I cannot do the tests/review until next weekend anyways as he has family obligations this weekend. I will write that next Sunday and post in the MBA section reviewing new 2.13 MBA vs old 1.86 MBA vs new 2.26 13" MBP (with 2/4/6/8 GB RAM). I hope to truly decide for myself which Mac is right for me. But I also am going to try to help others identify which is right for them. I plan to test many apps to see what it takes to use more RAM than the MBA has. I also hope to show others that 8 GB is nearly never needed as 4 GB is a lot of RAM. Also hope to fully test and run down three battery cycles on each to learn true time depending on usage. Plan to fully analyze the displays. Hope to show the speed and comparison of base MBA vs MBP to see which is faster. Also plan to explain ALL of the solutions for making both better with multiple accessories. Want to provide insight into the trackpad, reflections of black bezel, and overall quality. May even do some Cool Book tests. Probably going to identify heat before and after replacing thermal paste.

So doing it for my own analysis and sharing with others as I enjoy writing/reporting like this. It's fun for me... LOL

In the meantime, the store opens in 35 minutes so will go work for number four. Will report after return from a client appointment in late afternoon.

To all you waiting on your MBA to be delivered today, remember the power of positive thinking. Godspeed! Let's hope there are 9c9a and 9c8f displays in most of the new one but some have been unlucky.

I will try calibration of the display too. And hopefully they will have new notebooks on display, so I can try it out on those too!
 

Veinticinco

macrumors 65816
Feb 25, 2009
1,483
1,560
Europe
If this whole line hysteria is really only an issue of calibration, then it is really unfortunate that so many decisions are being governed by it.
It's not. Believe me I tired calibrating a billion different ways, in the hope it would make the lines less noticeable. It's a hardware design fault/QC problem.
 

aleksandra.

macrumors 6502a
Sep 13, 2008
674
0
Warsaw, Poland
Well, from everything I have read, I am convinced it is the flow of power to the display. (...)

I wonder if the calibration settings changes fix the lines often. (...)

My Air is rev. B with SSD and 9C90 display. I have lines. The display used to be horribly yellow, after the calibration, with no gamma change, lines were just as visible. I've created a few more profiles with different gamma and they seem to be faintest with 2.2, but they're still there. I don't think the problem lies here, it's only more or less obvious depending on color profile.

As to the power theory, I can say my Air always seemed to be getting relatively good battery life, even though Coconut Battery says battery health is 93-95% (depending on the weekday? weather? stars?). Today I've got 5:09, minus 10 minutes of display sleep, so lets say 5 hours, under light usage (web browsing via wifi, a few other apps, occasionally using iSight). The longest time ever was 5:20, I know I can always count on at least 4:30 of my normal work. If lines turn out to be the side-effect of this and there's a firmware update which would fix it but shorten battery life, I'd have a hard time deciding if I want it or not.
 

Scottsdale

Suspended
Original poster
Sep 19, 2008
4,473
283
U.S.A.
My Air is rev. B with SSD and 9C90 display. I have lines. The display used to be horribly yellow, after the calibration, with no gamma change, lines were just as visible. I've created a few more profiles with different gamma and they seem to be faintest with 2.2, but they're still there. I don't think the problem lies here, it's only more or less obvious depending on color profile.

As to the power theory, I can say my Air always seemed to be getting relatively good battery life, even though Coconut Battery says battery health is 93-95% (depending on the weekday? weather? stars?). Today I've got 5:09, minus 10 minutes of display sleep, so lets say 5 hours, under light usage (web browsing via wifi, a few other apps, occasionally using iSight). The longest time ever was 5:20, I know I can always count on at least 4:30 of my normal work. If lines turn out to be the side-effect of this and there's a firmware update which would fix it but shorten battery life, I'd have a hard time deciding if I want it or not.

Wow, I never got more than 3:15 from my rev B. What is your secret?
 

aleksandra.

macrumors 6502a
Sep 13, 2008
674
0
Warsaw, Poland
Wow, I never got more than 3:15 from my rev B. What is your secret?

I'm not sure I have a secret... I'm simply using it, though when on battery I don't usually run anything processor intensive, nothing heavier than one IDE or another (QtCreator, NetBeans, XCode...). Movies and games drain battery much faster, obviously. Also I'm using 802.11g usually, n would be more power-hungry. I suppose the real reason may be that while most people like their screen brightness high, I usually have to dim it so it doesn't burn my eyes. That may account for it... because I'm sure that whatever reason for lines, it can't make this sort of a difference.

Anyway, I don't think these times are really out of ordinary, it's what Apple reports on their website and most reviews confirmed ~4.5 hours under light usage. Maybe it's our definition of "light usage" that differs, as well?
 

HLdan

macrumors 603
Aug 22, 2007
6,383
0
To Scottsdale: I mean this wholeheartedly because I have been following your posts a lot, while informative they've also been a bit enjoyable but I have to be upfront with on this, stop the madness. You are becoming neurotic over this whole thing. Don't misunderstand me, the line issue is an issue and you're not at all off base but I think these endless exchanges and now you're considering buying somewhere else online for another set of endless exchanges. Let it go dude. Go buy a 13" MBP. It's a great computer with fantastic specs and you won't be going through this madness anymore. Is the MBA really worth all of this?? IMO, NOT AT ALL. That's why I got rid of mine and ordered the 13" MBP. :)
 

xpovos

macrumors 6502a
Jun 7, 2007
512
0
Tennessee
It's not. Believe me I tired calibrating a billion different ways, in the hope it would make the lines less noticeable. It's a hardware design fault/QC problem.

Agreed. I tried many different custom calibrations. One or two succeeded in making the lines a little less noticeable, but they were definitely still there.
 

Veinticinco

macrumors 65816
Feb 25, 2009
1,483
1,560
Europe
Let it go dude. Go buy a 13" MBP. It's a great computer with fantastic specs and you won't be going through this madness anymore. Is the MBA really worth all of this?? IMO, NOT AT ALL. That's why I got rid of mine and ordered the 13" MBP. :)
I'm nowhere near as neurotic as Scottsdale, and so suggestion above is pretty much where I'm at.

However, I'm still hugely pissed off at Apple for royally effing up this screen issue with the MBA (never mind the paltry improvements I'd be too embarrassed to call an upgrade) that I feel like not giving the company a penny in protest. Makes me feel better at least, even if I do crack at some point.

What I want is basically the new 13" MBP guts in an MBA case. Going to be well into 2010 before that happens.
 

Giancarlo

macrumors newbie
Apr 22, 2009
8
1
Canada - Hamilton
Seriously, before I started reading this forum, I never noticed any lines... Even after I read so much, I still could not see them....

I originally had a Rev A and there were no lines.. Same for my second unit, a rev B... The moment I bought this 2.13, I finally started to see them..

I bought it yesterday and the screen was the 9C90... Today I exchanged it (none of the geniuses here knew what I was talking about), and I got the exactly same screen on the new one...

The gamma adjustment makes the whole screen much better, however I still see the lines somehow... But I really have to look, hard....

I believe in Scottsdale theory and really believe it must be an issue with power and/or interference...

This problem was reported way long time ago and since then Apple must have received thousands of returned Airs, and yet no solution has been found, therefore one must assume that, either they are ignoring it (I doubt it) or whatever solution they might have at hand, will indeed impact whatever design they implemented for powering the screen/video card.

Now it seems I am seeing lines every where... Even on my Imac...lol
 

halfmoonray

macrumors newbie
Jun 11, 2009
1
0
I just got my MBA SSD via online order and had to run home to check for lines.
It is a 9C90 and there are very faint lines. I was expecting worse but was surprised that they weren't as bad. I changed the calibration to 2.2 gamma and it did not make any noticeable difference. I installed a bunch of updates and when I came back after taking the dog out, I basically did not see them....I moved the computer around into different light and angles and I saw them again...almost as if they were dynamically coming and going, located at one place of the screen and then at another ....more here, less there...and I don't think it has to do with the viewing angle. This makes me think that it's definitely a power issue and possible electromagnetic radiation interference with a source emitter inside the computer. Overall, I'm happy....it's by far not the best display that I've seen but I think I lucked out with one with very faint lines. At one point, I had to strain my eyes to find the lines...I think this is pretty good....(also...the screen is not as bright/vivid even with it turned up all the way as I would like and the viewing angle is very narrow) Right now...I plan on keeping it. Will calibrate the screen using a colorimeter tomorrow.
 

ssindi

macrumors newbie
May 7, 2009
16
1
One in every how many MBA about are affected by this display issue? It sounds like so many, will someone give me an idea? I am in love with the MBA :(
 

xpovos

macrumors 6502a
Jun 7, 2007
512
0
Tennessee
One in every how many MBA about are affected by this display issue? It sounds like so many, will someone give me an idea? I am in love with the MBA :(

I don't think anyone can answer that question, but it seems to be extremely common, enough so that one's chances of getting a screen with lines are probably higher than the chances of getting one without.
 

Veinticinco

macrumors 65816
Feb 25, 2009
1,483
1,560
Europe
Okay, I just got my new MBA.. no lines, track button is quieter then my Rev A... i have no idea if I'm lucky or what.

Neither do we from that. Not being especially grumpy towards you, but it would help if when people post things like this they at least include some useful info that may help determine any pattern if one exists; e.g. spec, manufacture date and screen model. It only takes seconds to check the display model and the spec and manufacture date (just post first 4 digits of serial no.) are on the side of the box.
 

jrwmba

macrumors newbie
Jun 9, 2009
16
0
Got my 2.13 rev C today. No lines out of the box and under multiple lighting conditions. Have not had it long enough to judge anything else carefully. Got very lucky. Apple was willing to accept my 1.86 rev B return even though I was outside the 14 day limit by 3 days. I had no idea a refresh was coming so fast. Monday was not a good day for me! Today - very good.
 

ayeying

macrumors 601
Dec 5, 2007
4,547
13
Yay Area, CA
Neither do we from that. Not being especially grumpy towards you, but it would help if when people post things like this they at least include some useful info that may help determine any pattern if one exists; e.g. spec, manufacture date and screen model. It only takes seconds to check the display model and the spec and manufacture date (just post first 4 digits of serial no.) are on the side of the box.

Spec: 2.13GHz/SSD Model
Model: 9C90
Serial: W8923
 
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