GOODBYE, APPLE.

[Flint Ironstag]

I know F5's post is going to be immediately dismissed by the usual crowd as "off-the-wall", and yeah, it's fanciful (and nonsensical) at times... but you should all know that he's totally nailed it...

Those folks who just keep pining and whining day after day, month after month, year after year sound just as nutty as he does when they are once again droning on about their 144 cores and 192GB of RAM and the 4 Titan GPU rendering boxes and hosting 10 VM's simultaneously, and their 1,000 track audio compositions, again and again describing the 5% of the "pro" market they actually represent as though they are the 95% that Apple actually wants to serve.

Since you mentioned my specific requirement (4 Titan GPU rendering box - and I don't render FYI), I'll respond. I know that some of the more demanding folks here may not make up the majority of use cases. But the fact remains that Apple used to serve us:

- we could configure a cMP with single or dual socket CPUs.
- we could load up with an acceptable amount of RAM relatively affordably (more slots)
- we had PCIE expansion to add what we needed (not entirely possible, and certainly not without compromise with Thunderbolt)

We had the freedom to customize the machine to our needs. Start with a base model and upgrade over the years, or start with a beast.

Maybe a box of crayons and an iPad are sufficient for you to do your work on, ixxx69, but some of us need more power, and the forum exists for us to discuss our needs and wants. Run along now.

 

[zulkiflim]

Has anyone here seen this ??

The speed of the SSD is insane !!
Perhaps the MacBooks are not that bad !!
Might be great actually !

If the Mac Pro has this SSD ....

 

[loby]

I think, a lot of you are underestimating the complexity of the underlying design changes and focus. Apple chooses the principle of form following function. They will not make changes just to look different.
I have been involved in product design. development, and delivery for many years and have a healthy respect for what they pull off. This stuff is hard.
The core unibody design approach in a laptop is unparalleled in its practicality and long life. It requires enormous investment and expertise in manufacturing using thousands of NC mills. Laptops pose particular challenges in thermal efficiency trade offs including battery life. At exceeding 10 hours in a high performance machines while reducing size and weight they have pulled off a triumph. Performance and screen are first rate. Keyboard and touchpad are brand new designs that have a lot of underlying challenges to execute.
Even with the Radeon decision it is not clear what all the underlying reason for the decision to choose it were. But I suspect the level of engineering commitment by AMD played a part. This is why AMD also got the contract from Nintendo and Sony. There is a lot more involved than just plugging in a card.
I will have my order in. I know. that I can use for first line development for the next 4-5 years and that it will be a good backup machine for another 4.
The good news is that if you do not agree, you can go Lenovo or Dell. There are some decent choices out there.
We develop on both Windows and Mac, and iPhone and Android. I use all systems daily. But personally, I think the Apple ecosystem is far superior from an engineering and design perspective. Not perfect, but the best you can get right now. Doesn't mean there are not moments where I pull out my hair - as in "what were they thinking here?"
I do hope that they will come out with another Mac Pro. I prefer the classic modular chassis for the cPro - that is why I still have mine. I think that the lack of flexibility lost in favor of the wow design factor has proven to be not the right recipe for the Pro crowd. But Apple will not announce until they are ready and not ship until it really works.

Yes, I have voiced this before and sometimes we forget what it takes to create these work of art laptops in both design and technology that lasts years more than a latest PC. It makes sense to me why maybe from a production side they have not updated their mac line.

I think Apple will reduce making incremental updates yearly and are training everyone during these frustrating times to get use to their new mac road map. Times change and intel changed their schedules etc. and numbers show that desktop computers are on the decline. It makes sense to wait until at least for Kaby lake (after testing) or further for a major update. Once that happens, everyone forgets quickly about all of these complaints.

It is not as easy as slapping a card in a pc box and calling it a day. Apple tests, tests to make sure the tech inside works after the design changes and should for the premium price they charge. No standard stuff inside. All basically a custom job. Adding a new piece of technology to the mix causes redesign and testing etc. This is why Apple is behind on the latest and greatest of anything. I would rather have my expensive purchase work out-of-the-box, not like PCs.

Yes, I too wanted newer specs in my recent purchase of a mac pro 2013 in 2016, but if there are too many issues and reduces production because they rushed out the mac pro because it is considered "old", then it is not worth the extra little upgrade or the premium price of purchase.

Last thing....everybody complains (I do too) about Apple. We have a choice, go to Windows (or another) or bit the bullet and wait until they give us something. How may people b**and complain and then just buy it eventually. If you want to stay in macOS there is little choice.

It is what it is.

 

[Flint Ironstag]

More apologies for Apple. Look at it this way:

- nMP is introduced
- we are told Thunderbolt is our new expansion
- 3 years later we are stuck with GPUs from 2011 and ZERO upgrade path
- 3 years later we are stuck with the original CPUs and ZERO upgrade path
- 3 years later Thunderbolt accessories are still ridiculously priced and offer no more bandwidth than competing technologies such as Fibre Channel

It could be as simple as "slapping a card in a box" but they have deliberately crippled this functionality. How difficult is this to understand?

 

[kucharsk]

More apologies for Apple. Look at it this way:

- nMP is introduced
- we are told Thunderbolt is our new expansion
- 3 years later we are stuck with GPUs from 2011 and ZERO upgrade path
- 3 years later we are stuck with the original CPUs and ZERO upgrade path
- 3 years later Thunderbolt accessories are still ridiculously priced and offer no more bandwidth than competing technologies such as Fibre Channel

Are you regularly being hampered by any of the above, or is it simple specmanship and wanting to have the latest and greatest?

Keep in mind, I'm not being an apologist, but rather is there something you're actually doing such that the above are deal-breakers?

 

[Jaho101]

Are you regularly being hampered by any of the above, or is it simple specmanship and wanting to have the latest and greatest?

Keep in mind, I'm not being an apologist, but rather is there something you're actually doing such that the above are deal-breakers?

They're deal breakers when you've got to deal with software that's not from under Apple's umbrella, and when that software's inefficient but necessary. Resolve comes to mind, as an industry standard app for which Apple has no equivalent solution, and that can be a huge resource hog. I work in video, so the GPUs available in the current lineup are pretty underwhelming, and would be considered unacceptable on a 2016 machine. At least if the power was available, these apps continue to be developed in the Apple ecosystem, and allowed to evolve into whatever emerges next (FCP X and Resolve running through iOS and whatnot.) That's what makes the lack of Open GL/CL development disappointing too, committing to Metal might make sense, but it's a big programming commitment to make for apps that don't make the majority of their profits on macOS.

With the old design at least the GPU weakness wasn't so pronounced, and the computers were better long term investments. I'll agree that from the CPU side it's really not that bad at all, considering Intel's stagnation, but GPUs haven't stagnated. Apple recognized the GPU's potential early, but they should really have doubled down on their commitment to it.

 

[jeff7117]

They're deal breakers when you've got to deal with software that's not from under Apple's umbrella, and when that software's inefficient but necessary. Resolve comes to mind, as an industry standard app for which Apple has no equivalent solution, and that can be a huge resource hog. I work in video, so the GPUs available in the current lineup are pretty underwhelming, and would be considered unacceptable on a 2016 machine. At least if the power was available, these apps continue to be developed in the Apple ecosystem, and allowed to evolve into whatever emerges next (FCP X and Resolve running through iOS and whatnot.) That's what makes the lack of Open GL/CL development disappointing too, committing to Metal might make sense, but it's a big programming commitment to make for apps that don't make the majority of their profits on macOS.

With the old design at least the GPU weakness wasn't so pronounced, and the computers were better long term investments. I'll agree that from the CPU side it's really not that bad at all, considering Intel's stagnation, but GPUs haven't stagnated. Apple recognized the GPU's potential early, but they should really have doubled down on their commitment to it.

I would argue that the GPU's in the nMP were unacceptable in 2013. I don't know anyone that says "hey, give me the under clocked card, I can wait on renders."

The Metal development switch could be problematic as well. Who wants to devote a ton of development to a platform that doesn't really have a workstation class machine any longer? I think we are reaching a turning point where most industry pros are switching back to PC, and I don't think they'll be coming back unless there's a better solution to expansion in the nMP.

The lack of PCI slots is the biggest gripe I see from users and rightfully so. GPU technology changes quickly. The ability to upgrade and expand the GPU is arguably the biggest failure of the nMP. Without a supported eGPU solution from Apple, the nMP just can't keep up with the rendering horsepower provided with higher power cards from Nvidia. This makes the nMP a terrible investment since it's a closed system. The lack of communication and a clear roadmap from Apple is another issue as well.

Maybe those of us in Post are a really niche market but it sure feels like Apple gave us exactly what we didn't want or need with the nMP. It's a computer designed to be disposable, like a phone. Apple doubled down in the consumer space and left the dedicated user base to rot on a vine. Here's hoping that doesn't blow up in their faces.

 

[majkom]

You didn't ask about what you needed more than 16GB of memory for. You asked what others needed more than 16GB of memory for. You've been provided more than one answer. The fact you're dismissive of them does negate them.


You're certainly implying as much. If you acknowledge there are use cases for more than 16GB of RAM then I don't understand why you're asking people for examples. As I already answered: People need more than 16GB of RAM for the same reasons they need more than 16GB of RAM on the Mac Pro. You ignored this answer...why?

stop feeding that troll pleaaaase...

 

[ITguy2016]

Has anyone here seen this ??

The speed of the SSD is insane !!
Perhaps the MacBooks are not that bad !!
Might be great actually !

If the Mac Pro has this SSD ....

I checked the new MacBook Pro out over the weekend and thought it was a very nice system.
[doublepost=1478524104][/doublepost]

Yes, I have voiced this before and sometimes we forget what it takes to create these work of art laptops in both design and technology that lasts years more than a latest PC. It makes sense to me why maybe from a production side they have not updated their mac line./QUOTE]
What do you mean by "Years more than a latest PC"? IME Macs are no more / less reliable than PCs. Even the low cost PCs hold up pretty darn well.

[doublepost=1478524326][/doublepost]

Are you regularly being hampered by any of the above, or is it simple specmanship and wanting to have the latest and greatest?

Keep in mind, I'm not being an apologist, but rather is there something you're actually doing such that the above are deal-breakers?

F5...is that you?

 

[Flint Ironstag]

Are you regularly being hampered by any of the above, or is it simple specmanship and wanting to have the latest and greatest?

Keep in mind, I'm not being an apologist, but rather is there something you're actually doing such that the above are deal-breakers?

Yes, I am being hampered both in work and leisure applications.

Password auditing, signal processing, data visualization, custom apps running on Mathematica - they gobble up all the resources you can throw at them. Apple killed off Xgrid, so buying more Macs isn't the solution - I need more powerful boxes.

I can't experiment with VR on my $6k mac pro, even in boot camp, because the GPUs are too old.

Gaming could be better if crossfire were enabled in macOS, but that only exists in boot camp.

Do I need to go on?

 

[shaunp]

Has anyone here seen this ??

The speed of the SSD is insane !!
Perhaps the MacBooks are not that bad !!
Might be great actually !

If the Mac Pro has this SSD ....

This is the same speed as the Samsung PCI-e SSD's you can buy for any PC these days. It's fast but nothing unique to Apple

 

[iMcLovin]

Has anyone here seen this ??

The speed of the SSD is insane !!
Perhaps the MacBooks are not that bad !!
Might be great actually !

If the Mac Pro has this SSD ....

You can get such SSD for any custom built PC too. Why make the question: "imagine IF apple this or that"....Make the switch to PC and you can get all the hardware you want at a lower cost. The SSD is the only good thing that laptop has going for it, I think. But for the prices apple charge there's always the same options existing on PC for lower prices, such as the Samsungs M.2 PCI flash. Apple doesn't invent much technology anymore, they just put it into nice chassis'es and find inventive ways to overcharge their customers.

 

[joebclash]

I'm seeing HP Z420 pretty cheap on ebay. I'm thinking about getting one as a first experiment in the world of hackintosh. Anyone with experience of running mac os on HP Z420? It's hard for me to make a total switch to windows...

 

[bladerunner2000]

I had a similar problem last year and built myself a Hackintosh instead.

Why?

Because the Mac Pro is disgustingly overpriced and ships with 5 year old GPUs that you can't upgrade thanks to Apple's boneheaded decision to make the PCIe slots proprietary. Then there's the iMac that shipped with a 4790K processor but you couldn't overclock it anyway, however, due to it's piss poor airflow (near non-existent), the CPU was forced to DOWNCLOCK from 4ghz to 3.6ghz in order to prevent it from overheating at full load!! That's FALSE advertising and Apple got away with it. Added bonus; a desktop iMac comes shipped with a mobile GPU. And the price tag is still ludicrous on the iMac as well. Also, it's loud as hell at full load.

Pathetic.

So, for $1,300 I built a PC which included a Seasonic 650watt PSU that's dead silent (passive cooling at low usage), Phanteks cooler, a 4790K processor that I can overclock if I want to, an Nvidia GTX 960 gpu, 32GB of RAM, space for hard drives galore, hell I even love the dust filters on the case that keep the components inside dust-free (or to a minimum). Best part is that I can upgrade my system at will which I just did over the weekend going from a GTX 960 to the 980; gaming on the Windows side of this machine is amazing. OS X runs amazingly well, I had a 50 day uptime as well on it recently too.

The worst part? I wish I never wasted my time with buying a used Mac Pro 2008 and went the Hackintosh much sooner. It's such a great value for the money. The system I built would cost me about $3,000 on the Apple side and I'd be completely SCREWED with upgrades and repairs on parts. A modular setup like this is much more practical and flexible. Because of this, I've actually gotten a whopping amount of use out of the system; Handbrake encodes are quick at 1080p (and I do a lot of them, about 5-6 hours a day overnight), Photoshop runs perfectly and After Effects for video projects is great.

There's no point in getting a Mac today. It's a waste of money as you get crippled hardware and will be forced to buy a whole new computer if you need the slightest upgrade at any time.

That said, I'm done with Apple. Just need to put my 2012 MacBook up for sale and I'll be Apple product free.

 

[dylin]

This is the same speed as the Samsung PCI-e SSD's you can buy for any PC these days. It's fast but nothing unique to Apple

Which SSD's? a google search didn't help much.
But I did fine one that was 2500 MB/s reads and 1500 MB/s writes.
Good for most custome builds and laptop upgrades if you ask me.

 

[ekwipt]

I had a similar problem last year and built myself a Hackintosh instead.

Why?

Because the Mac Pro is disgustingly overpriced and ships with 5 year old GPUs that you can't upgrade thanks to Apple's boneheaded decision to make the PCIe slots proprietary. Then there's the iMac that shipped with a 4790K processor but you couldn't overclock it anyway, however, due to it's piss poor airflow (near non-existent), the CPU was forced to DOWNCLOCK from 4ghz to 3.6ghz in order to prevent it from overheating at full load!! That's FALSE advertising and Apple got away with it. Added bonus; a desktop iMac comes shipped with a mobile GPU. And the price tag is still ludicrous on the iMac as well. Also, it's loud as hell at full load.

Pathetic.

So, for $1,300 I built a PC which included a Seasonic 650watt PSU that's dead silent (passive cooling at low usage), Phanteks cooler, a 4790K processor that I can overclock if I want to, an Nvidia GTX 960 gpu, 32GB of RAM, space for hard drives galore, hell I even love the dust filters on the case that keep the components inside dust-free (or to a minimum). Best part is that I can upgrade my system at will which I just did over the weekend going from a GTX 960 to the 980; gaming on the Windows side of this machine is amazing. OS X runs amazingly well, I had a 50 day uptime as well on it recently too.

The worst part? I wish I never wasted my time with buying a used Mac Pro 2008 and went the Hackintosh much sooner. It's such a great value for the money. The system I built would cost me about $3,000 on the Apple side and I'd be completely SCREWED with upgrades and repairs on parts. A modular setup like this is much more practical and flexible. Because of this, I've actually gotten a whopping amount of use out of the system; Handbrake encodes are quick at 1080p (and I do a lot of them, about 5-6 hours a day overnight), Photoshop runs perfectly and After Effects for video projects is great.

There's no point in getting a Mac today. It's a waste of money as you get crippled hardware and will be forced to buy a whole new computer if you need the slightest upgrade at any time.

That said, I'm done with Apple. Just need to put my 2012 MacBook up for sale and I'll be Apple product free.

I went the same route, but you have to remember if Apple stop selling the MacPro you won't be able to upgrade the hackintosh either, there will come a time when both won't work.

So here's hoping for a broadwell-e MacPro and a one after that and a one after that so we can keep building hackintosh into the future

 

[iMcLovin]

I had a similar problem last year and built myself a Hackintosh instead.

Why?

Because the Mac Pro is disgustingly overpriced and ships with 5 year old GPUs that you can't upgrade thanks to Apple's boneheaded decision to make the PCIe slots proprietary. Then there's the iMac that shipped with a 4790K processor but you couldn't overclock it anyway, however, due to it's piss poor airflow (near non-existent), the CPU was forced to DOWNCLOCK from 4ghz to 3.6ghz in order to prevent it from overheating at full load!! That's FALSE advertising and Apple got away with it. Added bonus; a desktop iMac comes shipped with a mobile GPU. And the price tag is still ludicrous on the iMac as well. Also, it's loud as hell at full load.

Pathetic.

So, for $1,300 I built a PC which included a Seasonic 650watt PSU that's dead silent (passive cooling at low usage), Phanteks cooler, a 4790K processor that I can overclock if I want to, an Nvidia GTX 960 gpu, 32GB of RAM, space for hard drives galore, hell I even love the dust filters on the case that keep the components inside dust-free (or to a minimum). Best part is that I can upgrade my system at will which I just did over the weekend going from a GTX 960 to the 980; gaming on the Windows side of this machine is amazing. OS X runs amazingly well, I had a 50 day uptime as well on it recently too.

The worst part? I wish I never wasted my time with buying a used Mac Pro 2008 and went the Hackintosh much sooner. It's such a great value for the money. The system I built would cost me about $3,000 on the Apple side and I'd be completely SCREWED with upgrades and repairs on parts. A modular setup like this is much more practical and flexible. Because of this, I've actually gotten a whopping amount of use out of the system; Handbrake encodes are quick at 1080p (and I do a lot of them, about 5-6 hours a day overnight), Photoshop runs perfectly and After Effects for video projects is great.

There's no point in getting a Mac today. It's a waste of money as you get crippled hardware and will be forced to buy a whole new computer if you need the slightest upgrade at any time.

That said, I'm done with Apple. Just need to put my 2012 MacBook up for sale and I'll be Apple product free.

I would say get used to WIndows 10. FCPX is once of the few programs that I see one loose without OS X, but at least you can get complete freedom in which hardware you choose and you get so much more programs that doesn't support OS X. Having to certain or outdated GPUs or CPUs because thats whats been digitally signed by Apple is not an option to me. I would still feel trapped in Apples claws.

 

[Chicane-UK]

Apple must have people reading these forums. How they can't be aware of the disgruntlement and disappointment with them these days is beyond me.

I secretly hope that Apple will get a grip with the Pro system in the coming months, and produce the system that I think we all want, in an attempt to stave off the rising tide of people turning to Hackintosh type systems.

Sell a 'BYODKM' box with upgradeable RAM, storage, CPU's and GPU's. Hell, even sell the box without those things fitted meaning you need to go third party for them all. List all the supported hardware, but retain core control with an Apple board in a nicely designed chassis with plenty of room for expansion. Maybe make a single CPU system that takes Skylake class desktop CPU's and a dual CPU system that takes Xeon's. It would sell like crazy for sure. Sure they wouldn't make LOTS of money on these systems but Apple should consider these customers that they have already lost! So something is better than nothing. And at least they'd go some way towards winning them back and would bring them back into the ecosystem.

 

[iMcLovin]

Apple must have people reading these forums. How they can't be aware of the disgruntlement and disappointment with them these days is beyond me.

I secretly hope that Apple will get a grip with the Pro system in the coming months, and produce the system that I think we all want, in an attempt to stave off the rising tide of people turning to Hackintosh type systems.

Sell a 'BYODKM' box with upgradeable RAM, storage, CPU's and GPU's. Hell, even sell the box without those things fitted meaning you need to go third party for them all. List all the supported hardware, but retain core control with an Apple board in a nicely designed chassis with plenty of room for expansion. Maybe make a single CPU system that takes Skylake class desktop CPU's and a dual CPU system that takes Xeon's. It would sell like crazy for sure. Sure they wouldn't make LOTS of money on these systems but Apple should consider these customers that they have already lost! So something is better than nothing. And at least they'd go some way towards winning them back and would bring them back into the ecosystem.

I think, sadly, Apple dont see the Pro market as a bigger part of their ecosystem. I hope they are wrong and Im right, that giving the finger to the pro market will have a ripple effect over to the iDevices over time. But I dont know. It also seem a lot of APple users buy apple hardware no matter what they churn out - and Apple cant stretch the customer releationship as far as they want, because people dont stop buying their crap. To me, the new MabBook Pro and the current nMP (which they even raised prices on) is the same as giving the finger to the whole Pro market. The "pro" tag on the new MB Pro is just a marketing slogan, a maximum of 16gb DDR3 ram,Intel integrated graphics and one connection, is not synonymous with Pro machines in 2016 imo....its a pimped up Macbook - the only Pro thing about that machine is the price tag.
And if this keeps on going for years over years, the customer base on their Mac line will fall eventually. But since apple apparently seems proud of their mac lineup they dont read this forums much

 

[Surfmavs]

LOL after the media event i went and pulled the trigger on a DELL workstation... I love my macs, and i would have gone for a new semi-crippled 2016 nMP maxed as far as budget would allow. But as in Europe in Mexico the price of the 2013 nMP went up something close to $1.5K USD after the event... And i got my wife a maxed out rMBP 13" 2015, she wouldn't go for the all USB-C ports yet. So yes, current line up was a huge let down and there is no incentive to go in that direction.

 

[ITguy2016]

I think, sadly, Apple dont see the Pro market as a bigger part of their ecosystem. I hope they are wrong and Im right, that giving the finger to the pro market will have a ripple effect over to the iDevices over time. But I dont know. It also seem a lot of APple users buy apple hardware no matter what they churn out - and Apple cant stretch the customer releationship as far as they want, because people dont stop buying their crap. To me, the new MabBook Pro and the current nMP (which they even raised prices on) is the same as giving the finger to the whole Pro market. The "pro" tag on the new MB Pro is just a marketing slogan, a maximum of 16gb DDR3 ram,Intel integrated graphics and one connection, is not synonymous with Pro machines in 2016 imo....its a pimped up Macbook - the only Pro thing about that machine is the price tag.
And if this keeps on going for years over years, the customer base on their Mac line will fall eventually. But since apple apparently seems proud of their mac lineup they dont read this forums much

The 15" models come equipped with dGPU's.

Regarding the name of the system...this reminds of BMW's model designations wherein the last two digits of the model number was indicative of the engine displacement (in liters). Thus a 325i would have an engine with a 2.5 liter displacement. Over the years, starting a while ago, BMW moved away from this. For example the 330i has a 2.0 liter engine and the 340i has a 3.0 liter engine. The pre-LCI models, 328i and 335i, had 2.0 and 3.0 liter engines, respectively. This caused a lot of discussion in the BMW world but the end result is this: The BMW model designations aren't about informing the customer of engine displacement but more about providing relative information about the vehicles in any given model line up. The same might be considered the case here. Is a model with a "pro" designation really intended for pro users? Or does it merely mean it is more capable than one with a non-pro designation?

 

[mikeboss]

edit: wrong thread...

 

[antonis]

Actually, I'm grateful to Apple. After their last keynote my 2015 15" MBP's resale value has been greatly increased.
Having said that, however, I'd prefer if the entire mac line hadn't go downhill. I hope that eventually Apple will switch some people in high places who are responsible for all this arrogance.

 

[monkeybongo]

It's clear that Apple has minimal interest in being competitive in the pro market as it doesn't produce that much money for them. Go to another brand it affects your time and money. It's a tool at the end of the day.

That being said, don't be angry at the Apple for trying to be profitable to the masses or luxury lines. I don't complain that Honda doesn't create a specific car model with the performance and price that I want. I just make do with what's available or go with another brand. I might go with a Hackintosh as my next Mac mini when mine dies.

To be honest, the only reason why I continue to stay with Apple for my family is for the retail support at the Apple stores. No other brand allows me to drop in and troubleshoot any problem. My father-in-law has a 5 year old MBA out of warranty. They worked on the problem for 1.5 hours, fix the problem and replaced the power adaptor all for free.

 

[iMcLovin]

The 15" models come equipped with dGPU's.

Regarding the name of the system...this reminds of BMW's model designations wherein the last two digits of the model number was indicative of the engine displacement (in liters). Thus a 325i would have an engine with a 2.5 liter displacement. Over the years, starting a while ago, BMW moved away from this. For example the 330i has a 2.0 liter engine and the 340i has a 3.0 liter engine. The pre-LCI models, 328i and 335i, had 2.0 and 3.0 liter engines, respectively. This caused a lot of discussion in the BMW world but the end result is this: The BMW model designations aren't about informing the customer of engine displacement but more about providing relative information about the vehicles in any given model line up. The same might be considered the case here. Is a model with a "pro" designation really intended for pro users? Or does it merely mean it is more capable than one with a non-pro designation?

I think lately Apples use of Pro is completely a marketing tool.
Because the iMac is more of a Pro machine than the iPad Pro honestly - theres more professional work you can do on it. Especially when maxed out. The MacBook Pro might be "pro" compared to apples other laptops, but spec wise its not "pro" friendly. Of course you can do certain work on it, but you can also do most of the same work on a MB Air. Anyway, Pro users are able to read Hardware specs, so most people arent fooled by this.

Even if the 15" MB Pro has a dGPU its still really unimpressive Specs. A gpu that perform less than 2 terraflops when Mobile GPU cards like gtx 1080 does 8. I find it very strange how apple underpower everything when it comes to CPU and GPU and ram, but wants to be pioneers on standard SSD speed and new i/o connections. To save battery isn't even the reason, because then atleast their desktop computers would be more up to date.