What would a new user be doing that would involve repeated trips to change settings? Likewise given, as you say, they're inexperienced, do you think they'll even know the difference? I don't believe they will. Again a non-issue for almost every user because they're not spending the majority of their time changing settings.It may not be for the average or experienced user but for the new users I think it is.
I personally have no issue because I have used in daily basis windows since 3.1 version, but a new one who sees a settings menu available when he/she wants to just turn off the computer, will easily assume that this is there for everything. Control panel is not directly available/handy as it used to be, you have to try more to reach it,so it may be a bit confusing, imho, for new users...
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
GOODBYE, APPLE.
- Thread starter aaronhead14
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
- Status
Additionally I fully believe that every platform has some positive and some negative points, MacOs has some and Windows has some, it's not something weird... we have to adapt in either cases, we cannnot expect perfection...
Did you miss this statement of mine from earlier:
For every one of those I can give you examples of people who have disliked the Macintosh and switched back.
Which were immediately followed by (which should look familiar because I just provided a reference to them):
In the end neither of our examples prove one platform better than the other.
I fail to see the point of what it is you're hoping to accomplish. You can give an example of a weakness of Windows, I can provide a counter example for OS X. In the end neither of us are providing anything but anecdotes / opinions which offset one another. Given tthis what value do they provide...yours or mine? What is it you hope to accomplish by telling us your favorite color is green?
[doublepost=1479933474][/doublepost]
Exactly my point. Which is why I fail to see the value in pointing out negatives of any operating system. Especially if they're derived from opinion.
What do you hope to accomplish by drawing wrong conclusions regarding the intention of my post ? Or by contradicting your own stance of not using opinions by offering your opinions ?
You inferred I was suggesting not use windows ( another operating system ) and I asked you where did I say not to use windows ? That was your own opinion. It isn't based on fact.
You inferred I was not adding "value" by not offering facts. You asked what is the value of my reply. I gave you the example. In my own post I suggested that these matters are subjective but to dismiss windows users having some issues with windows as inexperienced isn't correct.
You asked me for a specific example. I gave the example of many settings duplicated in two different places. You suggested that isn't an issue for many unless tweaking settings is a daily issue. That too is an opinion, not a fact. Some of us would prefer a consistent UX. I asked you how is having a setting in two diff places better UX ? You failed to provide an answer.
You are saying my änecdotes can have counter example and doesn't prove one platform is better than the other. I asked you where have I said one is better than the other ? no real answer. Another example of your wrong conclusions.
In your entire "counterpoint" nowhere have you established any facts. Just your opinion. You even attributed some things to me and I asked you where have I suggested them as you say I do ? You have no answer.
You even went to the extent if suggesting I has an änti windows stance and am suggesting users avoid using it . Again can you point exactly where I have taken an änti-windows stance ?
The last example is again a subjective stance ... Offering one more straw man argument by suggesting my fav color is green and I am insisting on telling you and the ones you assume are "üs" about it.
Assuming for the sake of argument I've misunderstood the point of your post. I have, repeatedly, asked you what your point is:
If that was not your implication then what value does your anecdotes provide?
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/goodbye-apple.2009741/page-30#post-23971908
So what value does your example offer?
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/goodbye-apple.2009741/page-30#post-23972344
Unless you intend to use one as a problem with Windows I fail to see the relevance of discussing them.
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/goodbye-apple.2009741/page-30#post-23972344
Which brings us back to this statement:
Unless you intend to use one as a problem with Windows I fail to see the relevance of discussing them.
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/goodbye-apple.2009741/page-30#post-23972896
What is it you hope to accomplish by telling us your favorite color is green?
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/goodbye-apple.2009741/page-31#post-23972952
I think I've been very clear that I could be misunderstanding the purpose of your posts which is why, in the above examples, I asked you what your point was (or stated I am not seeing it). Thus far, despite repeated requests to you to explain it to me, you have failed to do so.
So I ask again: If it was not your intent to demonstrate macOS better than Windows, based on the anecdotes you provided, what was your intent? <- This question (along with the one's provided above) is my acknowledgement I may be in error about the conclusion I drew from your post. As such please tell me exactly what your intent was. Don't spend any more time telling me I'm wrong...we'll assume that for the sake of this discussion. Tell me why I'm wrong.
I think I already answered that the intention of the post was to suggest that dismissing users who don't like some aspects of windows are inexperienced isnt true.
Last edited:
Please highlight the words / sentences / paragraphs which do so. Here's a link to your post for your convenience:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/goodbye-apple.2009741/page-30#post-23968287
Do you have trouble reading son ?
And please highlight where I have taken an anti-windows stance( no your feelings don't count., Neither do your opinions in this matter since you are insisting one must furnish proof ) or suggested OSX is better than windows.
And oh..where I like the color green and insist on sharing it with you and "üs" ?
You failed to answer the question.
Again: I have repeatedly said, if I am wrong then tell me what the point of your post was. I have yet to see an answer to that question...despite repeated requests for you to do so As such I have no choice but to conclude I never will and further requests will go unanswered as all of the previous requests. As such I see no productive discussion from you on this and therefore will let it go.
Explain please.
[doublepost=1479937821][/doublepost]
Cmon. Tell "üs"
[doublepost=1479937979][/doublepost]
Just in case you have trouble counting the years from windows 95 to Windows 8
To quote Steve Jobs - "You're holding it wrong".
The Win10 UI is search-based - instead of chasing down hierarchical menus and lists to find Windows Update - type "upd" in the search box.
And, you are just trying to create an issue if you claim that it's horrible that both the older panel and the newer panel show up in the search.
The Bean Counters are in charge of Apple again. Steve would make a Mac just because he *could* do it. Now it has to meet some internal checklist that totals up to a particular dollar value on the bottom line. Apple no longer cares to sell products to Pro users, only consumers, with no plans or thought given to other market segments they used to sell to, that would drive innovation down the line to consumers and lower price (and margin) Macs.
Its sickening seeing virtually every tech worker (inside Apple where I used to work, and where I now work in the Valley) using Apple laptops and a few desktops (iMac typ) or have Apple Thunderbolt displays. Apple is no longer interested in making money off of a large chunk of the tech crowd.
The RAM thing really is an issue. I make web apps and typ have a web server/app server running locally, a big fancy IDE running, several different web browsers, one or more email clients, a standalone text editor, a database engine of some sort running for the web app, (often with a dump of sample/test/prod data in the gigabyte range) IM app running, iTunes, version control GUI for Git, several Terminal windows all running various CLI apps, and sometimes VMs with alt OSes like maybe Windows to test IE (ick) or running another LAMP stack to test with.
I have gotten memory warnings on 16 gig of RAM as it is, in a rMBP I can at least upgrade the RAM on.
Apple is telling me I need to move to a laptop that would be plugged in 99% of the time, plug in external monitors obviating the built in display, just switch to and use cloud-hosted VMs and SaaS, and get a mouse/keyboard externally connected to the laptop, to do my job I could do with a desktop Mac right now, and pay a huge price premium to do it.
That's Bean Counter Apple logic for you. Maybe in 4-5 years cloud based IDEs and stuff will exist and all development can be done "in the cloud" but not today. I need to get work done today with the apps and stuff I can get today and Apple is abandoning me, I am not abandoning Apple.
Its sickening seeing virtually every tech worker (inside Apple where I used to work, and where I now work in the Valley) using Apple laptops and a few desktops (iMac typ) or have Apple Thunderbolt displays. Apple is no longer interested in making money off of a large chunk of the tech crowd.
The RAM thing really is an issue. I make web apps and typ have a web server/app server running locally, a big fancy IDE running, several different web browsers, one or more email clients, a standalone text editor, a database engine of some sort running for the web app, (often with a dump of sample/test/prod data in the gigabyte range) IM app running, iTunes, version control GUI for Git, several Terminal windows all running various CLI apps, and sometimes VMs with alt OSes like maybe Windows to test IE (ick) or running another LAMP stack to test with.
I have gotten memory warnings on 16 gig of RAM as it is, in a rMBP I can at least upgrade the RAM on.
Apple is telling me I need to move to a laptop that would be plugged in 99% of the time, plug in external monitors obviating the built in display, just switch to and use cloud-hosted VMs and SaaS, and get a mouse/keyboard externally connected to the laptop, to do my job I could do with a desktop Mac right now, and pay a huge price premium to do it.
That's Bean Counter Apple logic for you. Maybe in 4-5 years cloud based IDEs and stuff will exist and all development can be done "in the cloud" but not today. I need to get work done today with the apps and stuff I can get today and Apple is abandoning me, I am not abandoning Apple.
To quote Steve Jobs - "You're holding it wrong".
The Win10 UI is search-based - instead of chasing down hierarchical menus and lists to find Windows Update - type "upd" in the search box.
And, you are just trying to create an issue if you claim that it's horrible that both the older panel and the newer panel show up in the search.
Sigh ! is there more of you ?
How did I create an issue ? it is you who is insisting I am. where did I use the term "horrible" Care to explain ?
Support for Os 9 is really good though?It's so good that this thread is here so I can vent off
OH HAI GUYS AGAIN
Now turns out that I have to install Windows 7 for some compatibility testing. And looks like people all around the world already know that it's normal to have to wait >24 hours for Windows 7 SP1 to self-update!!
InfoWorld thinks, and explains, that this looks more like sheer negligence than like conspiracy - though that would also be bad, right? Right?
My question is, can you imagine what would happen if Microsoft made an OS?
(And if anyone finds him/herself in this new Microsoft(TM) Pit of Despair(TM), you can try fixing it yourself. Because it looks like Microsoft(TM) won't!)
(Oh, I just realized - Ubuntu self-updates ACROSS FULL RELEASES faster than Win7 self-updates just on top of a SP1!!
What about Os 8?
Bringing up support issues in defense of Apple is to ignore the tears of all the users who find themselves with suddenly and inexplicably dropped hardware.
Ubuntu is a **** show. It's not even worth mentioning. I'm a stupid artist. Super dumb guy. Ubuntu was a horrible ****ing experience. Hunting down a kernel that had low enough latency while still finding nvidia drivers? A joke. Wacom drivers? Horridly bad. Finding a file manager that wasn't completely rudimentary? That was a long search. Switching between screen compositors because of ridiculous tearing? Why do should I have to even bother. OH, and you had to set shading features per application. Holy mother of god, a month to get a fully operational system that still doesn't support ANY of the leading software natively. Don't mention Wine. Wine is the ****ing widest and the most shallow project I've ever seen. The whole process was a nightmare. The fact that you'd use it as some sort of pillar of stability or dependability is laughable.
Last edited:
Are you really comparing Windows 7 with OSes that last shipped about 2001? OS 9 was FRICKING BURIED on 2002 - 14 years ago! When Windows 2000 still roamed the Earth, and XP was the new thing!
Are you really, really sure you want to make that comparison?
Only, I'm not defending Apple. I'm just saying (aaaaagain) that Microsoft is not a solution.
Yes, in fact all of this is making me think that if I was in this kind of situation I'd probably try with a Hackintosh - though I can see the pain that could come that way too. If that turned too bad, then VMs on Linux, I guess.
But Windows? <shudder>
God, how desperate would I have to be for that.
[doublepost=1479988062][/doublepost]
To quote Steve Jobs - "You're holding it wrong".
The Win10 UI is search-based - instead of chasing down hierarchical menus and lists to find Windows Update - type "upd" in the search box.
No, it has turned search-based, because that's evidently the only fricking way to find sh*t in this unholy mess.
Take your own example: go and type "upd", and see the 2 results: "Check for updates" and "Windows update settings". What is the difference? Who knows, both take you to the same settings window.
Will you say now that it's search-through-Cortana-based or something?
It's horrible craftmanship. It's layers of crap on top of stale layers of crap. Instead of simplifying, just add another half-assed paintjob, and let the user dig! There are morsels here lifted piecemeal from XP - if not 2000 or NT, FFS.
"Just trying to create an issue". Priceless
[MOD NOTE]
This thread appears to be off the rails, closing it down
This thread appears to be off the rails, closing it down
- Status