Goodbye Mac

[rich.smith]

I always get a chuckle out of this debate. The ones who rush to the defense of Windows are the self-proclaimed power users, hackers, IT folks, etc. You shouldn't have to have that degree of knowledge or proficiency to get the most out of an operating system. Seems that the average OSX user can do much more than the average Windows user.

I too have been on Windows (and DOS prior to that) since 1984. I find OSX refreshing, intuitive, and much easier to use. That is one of the biggest advantages to Macs. Even Hackintoshes can't compare as they can get messed up with new versions of OSX.

Well said. I used my first PC in 1983 (in college). I purchased my first home computer in 1986 (the Xerox version of the AT&T 6300). I have owned a DOS/Windows machine ever since. I still have three Windows XP machines in daily use at home. I also run XP in a virtual machine on my MBP.

I am very tempted to try Hackintosh on the MSI Wind netbook.

 

[hexonxonx]

Daily explorer crashes is a bit of a stretch, my pos toshiba laptop has been up for about 3 weeks straight now, used for 3-6 hours a day for everything from note taking in classes, to heave photoshop work, and it has not produced one error yet. But no, it's not fun or enjoyable to use at all.

I gotta agree with others in this thread that Vista is pretty solid these days.
I bought an HP laptop with Vista last summer and have only had a small number if explorer crashes in the last few months.

I can't even remember the last time I rebooted the HP that I upgraded to Vista. It still has Firefox open to pages I was viewing from November.

Safari crashes as well. I've probably had just as many of those on my iMac and Mac Pro.

Other than Apples computer designs and OS, these are the only things that make them differant than computers such as HP or others. They all use the same drives and memory as Apple. They are all the same inside when it comes to parts. Well except for maybe the Mac Pro. Gotta love the way that thing looks on the inside.

 

[gkarris]

If you want a PC, get a PC. If you want an iMac, get an iMac. This, however, is a forum about Mac products. I understand your disappointment, but hey, we all have choices. I for one will never, ever, go back to PCs, especially Dells. I have 3 Dell laptops in my home and I work on one. I also have an iMac and 2 macbooks at home. It all comes down to personal choices. If I had to do it all over again, I would never buy another PC.

I don't understand the need for those whose dislike Apple's business and creative decisions, to come on these sites and bellyache. Buy whatever you want and start a forum for that brand.

Great post.

I'm on my work Dell right now - it's turning out to be okay. But at $200 more than an Aluminum MacBook with the same specs (exception for the smaller, 80 Gig hard drive on the Dell), it better be as good as the Mac...

 

[RebootD]

Another thing people seem to forget is how terrible OS 8-9 was with crashing and the 'bomb of death' that plagued every single mac in my design lab in college. We even started the 'save every 5 minute rule' because so many projects were jacked up after it rebooted. When my classmates were using loan money to buy a G3 tower I stuck with my PC because they gave me a horrible first impression! Good thing I didn't let that stop me later in life eh?

The point being, use Vista and then use OSX. Which one do you like better? Make a choice and go with it because both run equally fast and run the same hardware so it really only comes down to the 'current' operating system.

 

[Ibjr]

Goodbye, you wont be missed

Actually, the poster will be missed and Apple needs to take these consumers into account. We are entering the worst recession since the great depression and, if you look at what was said during the quarterly conference call, Apple is finally experiencing a decrease in sales. Price is a factor.

Apple snobbery is becoming insufferable.

 

[sn00pie]

Apple has the money to walk out of the recession with a few bumps and bruises. So why would they lower prices and cater to those who are not willing to pay a little bit extra for a Apple product.

Those who do spend the extra money get there dollars worth at the end.

*hugs his home powered by Apple*

 

[Ibjr]

Apple has the money to walk out of the recession with a few bumps and bruises. So why would they lower prices and cater to those who are not willing to pay a little bit extra for a Apple product.

Those who do spend the extra money get there dollars worth at the end.

*hugs his home powered by Apple*

I'm not sure if this is brilliant satire, but given the site, I will assume it isn't.

So here are the reasons that Apple cann't fo what you foolishly suggest.

1) Apple's stock does not issue dividends so the company must focus on increasing its share price.

2) The mini refresh pushes it far outside of "paying a little extra" range.

3) Windows 7 will be released at the end of this year. In the middle of an awful recession, people will just pay significantly less for a slightly inferior desktop. Apple notebooks are still reasonable; the mini is not.

 

[the_fellowship]

I think we all know Apple charge a premium for their stuff, so obviously compared to other manufacturers it's not going to feel like a good deal. I'm fairly new to Macs, basically since the purchase of my iPhone 3G last July (so approx 8 months).

I bought a Mac Mini as my entry level Mac and thought I'd see how I go with that. I'm not a power user so the main activities I used my Mac for were iPhone Development, email, web surfing, the usual desktop stuff. The Mac Mini handled it well and it gave me a good chance to get to grips with OSX.

So after approx 8 months I have decided to stick with Macs and upgrade to an iMac (refurb 24" 2.8GHz). I find OSX so much easier to work with than Windows. I've even used Vista for a short while...I am not impressed! The Mac Mini is still ok, but I feel the extra power with an iMac will benefit me more when it comes to doing movie and photo editing. I have a lot of video and photos of my 19 month old son which I'm keen to start editing and creating movies and slideshows etc.

The Mac Mini will be my new HTPC running Boxee/Front Row once the iMac arrives tomorrow

Like many others new to the Mac and OSX, I wish I had made the transition over from Windows ages ago! lol

 

[iParis]

*Face Palm*

Vista, on new hardware is not bad. I repeat, my wifes' homebrew pc from 2007 has a low end 2ghz c2d and 2GB of ram and she can run firefox, excel, word, powerpoint, photoshop and solitaire (had to get one jab in there) just fine with no slow down. Doesn't crash, never has been reinstalled and for the love of whomever no blue screens of death.

Yes OSX is superior in just about every way but this misinformation needs to end. Hate Vista because you have used and hated it not because some Rush L. of the Apple world told you these lies and you know nothing but to regurgitate them.

End Face Palm.

Yes, to your people saying stuff like 2-4GB of ram and a dual core, you should be fine.
The only reason I said 6GB is because that's what the OP stated he would be using.
Now here's some of my experience;
So you know how you can run Windows XP on a Pentium 3 with about 265MB ram just fine? Well for Christmas of '07 my uncle got me a laptop with Windows Vista, it has 1GB ram and 1.66GHz Intel Celeron M. It ran fine for the past few months. Then once I started using it more all hell broke loose. NT1440 was right for stated daily Windows Explorer crashes, that's exactly what started happening to me. I don't even want to tell you what happens when I try to run photoshop. That laptop now takes about 15 minutes to boot up. My mom has a laptop that it just a couple models below that one that I have and it runs really smooth. It has an 856MHz Intel Intel Celeron M. with 512MB ram. The difference other than specs? Her's runs Windows XP.
I also have a Windows 7 partition on my current desktop and to see how it would run on a low end, I took out one of the two 1GB ram sticks. Windows 7 did exceptionally well on 1GB, Vista on the other hand was an epic failure after I rebooted into it. I also cried playing COD4 on Vista and I had a huge lag and it then crashed. When I did it in Windows 7 it was really smooth other than the occasional lag (which was probably due to my graphics card). If I didn't have that Windows 7 partition the majority of my few games would be pointless.
So just a little overview, my desktop computer has 2GB ram, NVIDIA GeForce 8200 graphics, and an AMD Athlon 1.60GHz Single Core with, as I've stated, Windows Vista and Windows 7. Vista lags at the worst times possible, but it could be a lot worse. I think one of the reasons it runs better on this single core as opposed to my laptop's single core is because it's an AMD processor, which IMO is better than Intel in some occasions (like this one). Windows 7 runs almost perfect on my computer and the only reason I haven't made 7 my primary OS is because I'm too lazy to transfer all my programs and re-add my iTunes library which is 280GB+.

 

[Slurpy2k8]

I can't say I'm surprise at the elitism coming through in this post.

OP, something is clearly wrong when you have to spend $1800 to get a computer with a dedicated graphics card. There is no value to be had in these new iMacs whatsoever. A year ago, it was different. I looked at everything I got with the baseline iMac and it was a good bargain (still wish I had gone for the 2600 Pro model though... ). Today, all I see is outdated or downright sad components for a premium computer.

Thankfully, I won't have to upgrade for at least another 2 years.

Say what you will about Dell (or Vista, and I don't care what you say, because I have Vista installed on another computer in the house and it works just fine, and has for quite some time, ninny), but at least they offer competitive value, especially in the XPS line they just upgraded.

Agreed. The spite directed at the OP in this thread is rather pathetic. I can definitely see where he's coming from, as any rational, objective person who isn't fanatically loyal to a certain company would. I'm a mac user and am completely happy with my aluminum macbook- but I'm not going to sit here and pretend that Apple offers good value on their machines. They simply do not, and the new iMacs even less than usual. There's nothing wrong with a healthy profit margin, but Aple seems to want to pad their margins much more than necessary, in exchange for reduced marketshare. Then you have people here that will cheer about that.

 

[bossxii]

I'll never understand why Windows fans come to Apple specific forums to bash the computers and OS? Why not goto windows based forums and talk about how great your machines are there?

I don't bash windows because I don't care about it or the computers that run it. It's in the past for me. Everyone has their choice of what to use so do it. The only thing that baffles me is the users trying to prove their point vs just using their machine of choice.

The OP finds better value with his Dell, I hope he's happy with it and it gives him no trouble but no reason to bash anyone. I know I will pay for the Apple name, but that's no different than any other industry. Clothing, automobiles, food etc... name brand vs generic etc...

Sure as heck isn't worth getting upset about.

 

[gkarris]

^^^ another great post.

How is Dell lately anyways?

All the Dells (both desktops and laptops) we had at work were exceptionally problematic.

The new E series Latitude that I just got any my co-workers are getting have been problem-free...

Yes, they sometimes can cost more than a MacBook (my 13" E4300 does), how is Dell's other series now?

I guy I know put OS X on a Dell Mini, (LOL)...

Sort of mocks Michael Dell, Steve Jobs, and Bill Gates all at the same time!

 

[Tesseract]

I feel your pain OP. I've been a mac user all my life. Apple has always had great product design, very reliable hardware, and the best OS ever created. But I'm considering switching to PC altogether, mainly because its just too expensive to buy from Apple when the power of their hardware is a little bit short of mediocre. I've been doing some price comparisons for a long time now, and hoping that Apple would keep up in the rapidly-improving technology race. Sure, I always knew I'd be paying more by buying Apple - but it would be worth it mainly because of the quality (reliability/versatility) of the computer.

The update was so disappointing because the rest of the computer world is improving and cutting their costs, while Apple is pretty much staying stagnant, as far as their desktop lines are concerned. I'm looking into getting a custom built computer that is just as powerful as a Mac Pro (a lot more so in the GPU department), but at the very most will cost half as much. I'll probably need to look into some different video editing software, and I'll have to use Windoze, which will be a disappointment, but I'll be paying $2,000 less. Perhaps somewhere down the line, I'll buy some hand-me down but nice Macbook (Apple still makes the best laptops in the world by far, IMHO).

 

[czachorski]

I can definitely see where he's coming from, as any rational, objective person who isn't fanatically loyal to a certain company would.

People don't "buy" based on rational, objective reasons - they buy things on emotions. Some will have frustrations with Windows PCs, and that emotional reaction is what Apple is selling to. I think you have made the mistake of thinking that what Apple is selling, and charging a premium for, is hardware and software. They most certainly are not.

 

[Tesseract]

People don't "buy" based on rational, objective reasons - they buy things on emotions. Some will have frustrations with Windows PCs, and that emotional reaction is what Apple is selling to. I think you have made the mistake of thinking that what Apple is selling, and charging a premium for, is hardware and software. They most certainly are not.

That, no offense, is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Either that or I'm understanding your point wrong. Sure, Apple is appealing to people's emotion (their Mac vs. PC ads are a great example). But if that's all they were selling, they might as well be selling you designer clothes. Apple sells computers. They sell hardware and software. People, for the most part, make a rational decision by weighing out their needs, comparing their options, making appropriate compromises, and then following through. The majority of people will know when they're being swindled. As long as Apple keeps selling hardware and software as their main product, and not mainly something that appeals to emotion, they'll stay alive as a company. The customer always wins (and when they don't, the company loses too).

 

[iParis]

People don't "buy" based on rational, objective reasons - they buy things on emotions. Some will have frustrations with Windows PCs, and that emotional reaction is what Apple is selling to. I think you have made the mistake of thinking that what Apple is selling, and charging a premium for, is hardware and software. They most certainly are not.

Very, very good statement. Although it's not completely true. Apple is selling on hardware, software, and frustration with other computers. Except they don't know they're also selling based on emotion related reasons. I have had sooo much frustration in the past, not as much in the present, with my PC's. Damn thing almost went out the window before.

 

[czachorski]

That, no offense, is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Either that or I'm understanding your point wrong. Sure, Apple is appealing to people's emotion (their Mac vs. PC ads are a great example). But if that's all they were selling, they might as well be selling you designer clothes. Apple sells computers. They sell hardware and software. People, for the most part, make a rational decision by weighing out their needs, comparing their options, making appropriate compromises, and then following through. The majority of people will know when they're being swindled. As long as Apple keeps selling hardware and software as their main product, and not mainly something that appeals to emotion, they'll stay alive as a company. The customer always wins (and when they don't, the company loses too).

I think you were understanding my post wrong. Of course Apple makes hardware and software, of course that is what they are selling on the shelves, being totally literal about out. The connection with the customer comes from emotion, not the hardware and software. Almost everything that is bought today is done based on some level of emotion. Very little is done on a purely objective, rational basis.

 

[Macpropro80]

I would like to make a motion that we close this thread and let the windows fan boy leave. I know he will be back. I tried vista on a brand new machine and it blue screened twice out of the box trying to install and HP printer. After he realizes he made a mistake he will have a $700 pc door stop. Please for the love of god close this thread.

 

[Ibjr]

I would like to make a motion that we close this thread and let the windows fan boy leave. I know he will be back. I tried vista on a brand new machine and it blue screened twice out of the box trying to install and HP printer. After he realizes he made a mistake he will have a $700 pc door stop. Please for the love of god close this thread.

Everyone who disagrees with you is a windows fan boy? I always hoped that increased market share would have made the community less insular. It clearly hasn't.

 

[Ibjr]

^^^ another great post.

How is Dell lately anyways?

All the Dells (both desktops and laptops) we had at work were exceptionally problematic.

The new E series Latitude that I just got any my co-workers are getting have been problem-free...

Yes, they sometimes can cost more than a MacBook (my 13" E4300 does), how is Dell's other series now?

I guy I know put OS X on a Dell Mini, (LOL)...

Sort of mocks Michael Dell, Steve Jobs, and Bill Gates all at the same time!

False choice. Most of us who have to use Windows stick to Lenovo. Did you grow up on a farm? You sure like building up then tearing down strawmen.

 

[NT1440]

Everyone who disagrees with you is a windows fan boy? I always hoped that increased market share would have made the community less insular. It clearly hasn't.

Yes, you are fully qualified to make that statement from one post.

 

[Ibjr]

Yes, you are fully qualified to make that statement from one post.

Unfortunately for you, those who sit in judgment are rarely "fully qualified;" you'll be lucky if they are even observant.

 

[superpalmtree]

Dell & Vista actually ROCK!

Dell's Customer Service is actually top-notch. Especially if you purchase through Dell Business. The support from India could use some work, but when you sell as many computers as Dell they need to have some wall to deal with 85% of the people that call in because they can't plug in a mouse.

This Dell bashing should stop -- The Precision Line, Latitudes, XPS, are all top-notch.

Vista is also good. Vista X64 with 10GB RAM and a Velociraptor HD is just as stable as OSX any day.

By the way: I ordered a new Mac Pro -- I love OSX...I use all OS's. But some of you Apple Followers make me SICK.

Cheapest parts possible? Back up that claim? I have several Precision T7400's, XPS 720, 730, XPS M1330, M1530, and 50 Optiplex Workstations...the parts are not cheap -- certinaly no different than Apple.

I can picture you apple fanatics......skinny, blonde hair, glasses pushed up on head....walk sort of funky....Get over Yourself!

Good luck with the dell and microsoft. Pray you never have to deal
with Dell's "Customer Misery" department in India. But with Dell's
build it with the cheapest parts possible, you probably will.

You'll be back, albeit quietly.

 

[NT1440]

Vista is also good. Vista X64 with 10GB RAM and a Velociraptor HD is smoking fast and can run circles around OSX. --

.....

 

[RobLS]

If you're getting it mainly for photography, then you would want that higher quality display.. the IPS vs TFT is night and day dif. to me.. from a photography point of view. The only semi downer is that it is glossy. So for photo editing work, and specs that could still do an avid photographer well, that 300$ suddenly becomes worth it, not just the slim design.