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strausd

macrumors 68030
Jul 11, 2008
2,998
1
Texas
Well my S3 is a year old and still looks like its brand new, and thats without a case. Likewise ive seen iPhone 5's arrive brand new dented and scratched. Your point is?

One drop to break? Of course, although depends on how its dropped, from what height and what surface it lands on.

I've seen S3s less than 2 weeks old with cracked screens. This argument you are trying to make right now is all dependent on how a user handles their phone. So clearly that will vary from user to user. Hopefully even you can agree to that.

The arguments I am trying to make aren't so subject. I am trying to talk about how strong a material is. Not how strong a material holds up to different users. See the difference?

And to prove that I have been talking about how these materials would fare in equal environments...
So the black line indicates how much an aluminum frame would deform on impact, and the red line indicates how much a plastic frame would deform on impact with the same amount of force, and a phone of the same weight and size. .

You, however, continue to talk about different usage scenarios. How is that objective?

And...
Also, I would love to hear your response to my latest picture that I posted, illustrating how flexible plastic puts more stress on the screen.
You still haven't done that.

But its bending and not breaking. Again, why would you bend the back plate of your phone like that?!v:confused:

How much plastic is able to bend directly relates to my most recently posted picture, which you conveniently continue to ignore.

The more the plastic bends, the more pressure put on the glass. The more pressure, the more likely it is to break. It is oh so simple.
 

strausd

macrumors 68030
Jul 11, 2008
2,998
1
Texas
:confused: aftermarket plastic back covers are cheaper too, you can compare original/OEM it will always be more expensive.

----------

Lets see wich one is stronger :cool:

YouTube: video

You said plastic is easier to replace. I was just showing you how that is not always the case. Sorry...?

So people tell me that drop tests are invalid because it doesn't always simulate real world use, yet a blender is a better example. Ok, now I know the kind of logic you people follow.

-------------------------

Plus, just to give a little outside source...

http://www.redmondpie.com/iphone-5-vs-galaxy-s3-drop-and-durability-test/

It wasn’t really a difficult outcome to predict, and although there is very little to pick between the two devices in terms of feature sets, it seems that the iPhone 5 has, by far, the superior build quality.
 

roxxette

macrumors 68000
Aug 9, 2011
1,507
0
You said plastic is easier to replace. I was just showing you how that is not always the case. Sorry...?

So people tell me that drop tests are invalid because it doesn't always simulate real world use, yet a blender is a better example. Ok, now I know the kind of logic you people follow.

Plus, just to give a little outside source...

http://www.redmondpie.com/iphone-5-vs-galaxy-s3-drop-and-durability-test/

Its a joke mate lol but a blender test is as trivial as a drop test.
 

strausd

macrumors 68030
Jul 11, 2008
2,998
1
Texas
Its a joke mate lol but a blender test is as trivial as a drop test.

So how often do people accidentally blend their phones and how often do people accidentally drop their phones? Clearly they are equal.

Only if you keep dropping your phone or taking the back plate off and bending it for no reason!

It dosent break without user error.

http://www.sprintusers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=231527

I have never dropped it and have always taken care of it.

Today I did a quick search and found that this is a problem others have reported so I gave Sprint a call to find out what could be done.

Using Google is hard... ;)
 

Dave.UK

macrumors 65816
Sep 24, 2012
1,290
482
Kent, UK

daveathall

macrumors 68020
Aug 6, 2010
2,379
1,410
North Yorkshire
Again, prove to me that the aluminum in an iPhone 5 is as thin as that of a soda can. Until you prove that, your point is irrelevant.

I would guess that the aluminium on an iPhone 5 is thinner than a tin can.

Quote;

Which brings us to the next key detail with the anodization process: typically, the thickness of the anodization adds about half that thickness to the total aluminum thickness. So if you had an aluminum plate that was 1mm thick and added a 0.2 mm oxide, post-anodization, you would end up with a total material thickness of 1.1mm. With Apple trying to maintain as slim a profile as possible, it's in their best interests to have a relatively thin anodization. Given the graining of the anodization and based on what I've seen from scratching up my own iPhone 5, I think Apple's anodization process results in a super-thin alumina, something on the order of less than a hundred microns, at most; I'm estimating around 50-75um. (I'd also just like to note that in the process of this review, I took a jeweler's screwdriver to the back of my previously pristine iPhone 5. I love you guys, don't ever forget it.)

The oxide is even thinner on the bands, particularly the chamfers, which are just painted metal. So while the entire thing is easy to nick, it seems easiest to scratch off lots of paint on the bands, as well as the various metal edges. The soft-anodized surface is just a magnet. And the thing is, I'm not even sure they have the material thickness to oxidize more of the surface to get a more durable finish. The entire phone is so thin, and especially on the bands, I can't see a way for them to corrode any more of the aluminum than they already have without it raising questions about structural integrity. So, without very special care inside the factories, it's pretty easy to see how defects could occur. The rumors of Apple tightening down on quality control inside the iPhone 5 assembly factories comes as no surprise, since the 5 really does need extra attention to make it out of the factory unscathed.

Taken from;

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6330/the-iphone-5-review/3

If you wanted to have a true test then the tests have to be in "like" conditions, in which case the aluminium band from the iP5 would need to be taken from the phone and tested for strength, the same as for the plastic on the SGS3.

It doesn't really bother me, drop a phone on a road and one could reasonably expect it to be damaged, no matter if it was made from plastic or aluminium. The argument is moot fellas.
 
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tbayrgs

macrumors 604
Jul 5, 2009
7,467
5,097
Can you guys give it a rest already? Jeez, you're like a bunch of bickering school children and have taken this thread so far off track it's tiresome trying to find something pertinent to to the actual rumored Moto/Google X phone(s). Open a new thread if you feel the need to keep at it, otherwise keep it on topic. :rolleyes:
 
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zbarvian

macrumors 68010
Jul 23, 2011
2,004
2
I'm stoked for this. Rumored sapphire glass screen, rubber corners, and kevlar back. As long as it isn't the usual Motorola hideous then count me in. With Nexus 4 like pricing and stock Android, a super durable body, and a long battery this phone will be difficult to resist.
 

akuma13

macrumors 6502a
Jan 10, 2006
934
430
I'm stoked for this. Rumored sapphire glass screen, rubber corners, and kevlar back. As long as it isn't the usual Motorola hideous then count me in. With Nexus 4 like pricing and stock Android, a super durable body, and a long battery this phone will be difficult to resist.


This will be nothing like the nexus (no stock android or cheap price, this will be top of the line), Nexus 5 comes out during the holidays.
 

strausd

macrumors 68030
Jul 11, 2008
2,998
1
Texas
Anyway, What about all the iPhone 5's that arrived with dents and scratches?
What about all the iPhone 5's that bent?

Haha you make me laugh. I have already told you the problem with this argument.

Also, look at my previous post where someone else also mentioned the superior build quality in the iPhone 5 over the GS3.

I can easily link to more articles also talking about the superior build quality in comparison to the cheap plastic in the GS3. Need me to post those as well?

Of course, it seems no amount of evidence would ever take you out of your plastic bubble.

--------------------

Back on topic, most of these X Phone rumors sound more like wishlists than actual rumors.

If it does, however, come out in November, that could be perfect timing for my next phone. But a November release seems like it would interfere with the next Nexus release, would it not?
 

jeffe

macrumors 6502a
Feb 17, 2008
601
50
In a case you want rubber to absorb the impact. Ideally, the rubber would be thick enough so that all the deformations caused by impact do not transfer to the actual phone, if that makes sense. Essentially, you want the rubber case to take all the impact, no the plastic on the phone.

A rubber case will bend inwards at the point of impact. That is how it absorbs the impact. And you want that as long as that bend stays in the case. But you never want the plastic to bend. See below.


You're joking, right? The plastic in that picture I showed you is so ridiculously thin and bends so easily. As for aluminum foil and soda cans, care to prove that the iPhone uses the same quality aluminum that is also at the same thickness? Or are you just going to say that with nothing to back it up?


You really can't read. Go back and read my last post. I never said it wouldn't bend. I only mentioned that it would require more pressure to get the aluminum in the iPhone 5 to bend as much as the plastic in a GS4. And thanks for showing this picture because it actually proves my point in a way.

The angle that this aluminum bends is far less than the GS4 plastic in the picture I linked to earlier. And which one do you think took more pressure to bend? Obviously the aluminum because the thin plastic on the GS4 is weak and easily flexible. So really, the plastic required less force and was able to bend at a higher angle, and the aluminum required more force and did not bend as much.

And here is where something that is easily flexible can harm a phone.

[url=http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/263/edgemn.jpg]Image[/URL]

Imagine this phone is falling to the floor and lands on this top right corner. The two lines indicate how much the frame bends inward at the point of impact. So before going on, which line would put more stress on the glass? The one that bends inward more, or the one that bends inward less? I would love to hear your answer on this specific question when you undoubtedly respond with more half-thought arguments.

Now, as has been discussed, the plastic in the GS4 bends ridiculously easy. If you don't believe me, take the plastic back off a GS3 and just feel how weak and flexible it is. Multiple reports indicate they are using the same "quality" of plastic.

So judging from that, we can tell that plastic will require much less force in order to deform. And aluminum would require more force in order to deform at the same magnitude of something that is plastic.

So the black line indicates how much an aluminum frame would deform on impact, and the red line indicates how much a plastic frame would deform on impact with the same amount of force, and a phone of the same weight and size.

It is simple, which deformation, the one indicated by the black line or the one indicated by the red line, will cause more stress on the front glass?


See above.

It seems you care a lot about this issue..spending all this time writing and posting about it on an internet forum.

What would you say some of the advantages of plastic would be for the end consumer? I run my plastic phone without a case and while it might have scratches on it they are very hard to see unless you are looking for them and it allows me to carry the phone case-free without worrying about ruining it.

That's probably one advantage of plastic. Do you have any others?
 

strausd

macrumors 68030
Jul 11, 2008
2,998
1
Texas
It seems you care a lot about this issue..spending all this time writing and posting about it on an internet forum.

What would you say some of the advantages of plastic would be for the end consumer? I run my plastic phone without a case and while it might have scratches on it they are very hard to see unless you are looking for them and it allows me to carry the phone case-free without worrying about ruining it.

That's probably one advantage of plastic. Do you have any others?

That's kind of the same thing with my Nexus 4. Although the glass can scratch easily, the black layer behind the glass does a pretty good job of keeping those scratches hidden unless you are specifically looking for them.

Of course I am deathly afraid of dropping my phone because of the glass. Unfortunately nobody ever plans on dropping their phones, it just happens.

I would love to see some manufacturer implement that material from the case company Tech21 into the frames of phones. That would be awesome. But that will probably never happen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4uMTZWh0Rc&feature=youtube_gdata_player

It's crazy how the dude just puts it around his finger and starts hitting it with a hammer. A material that instantly becomes so rigid on impact would be great if implemented properly in a phones frame.
 
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sk1wbw

Suspended
May 28, 2011
3,483
1,010
Williamsburg, Virginia
To be honest, I don't have much faith in Google-directed phones anymore. Google has much to learn when it comes to their own phones. The Phone X will definitely be on my radar, but I'll be looking at Xperia Z or S4 most likely this year...

Uh, Google doesn't have their own phones. If you get a Nexus or a Sony or a Samsung, not one of them is a Google Phone.
 

cynics

macrumors G4
Jan 8, 2012
11,959
2,156
In a case you want rubber to absorb the impact. Ideally, the rubber would be thick enough so that all the deformations caused by impact do not transfer to the actual phone, if that makes sense. Essentially, you want the rubber case to take all the impact, no the plastic on the phone.

A rubber case will bend inwards at the point of impact. That is how it absorbs the impact. And you want that as long as that bend stays in the case. But you never want the plastic to bend. See below.


You're joking, right? The plastic in that picture I showed you is so ridiculously thin and bends so easily. As for aluminum foil and soda cans, care to prove that the iPhone uses the same quality aluminum that is also at the same thickness? Or are you just going to say that with nothing to back it up?


You really can't read. Go back and read my last post. I never said it wouldn't bend. I only mentioned that it would require more pressure to get the aluminum in the iPhone 5 to bend as much as the plastic in a GS4. And thanks for showing this picture because it actually proves my point in a way.

The angle that this aluminum bends is far less than the GS4 plastic in the picture I linked to earlier. And which one do you think took more pressure to bend? Obviously the aluminum because the thin plastic on the GS4 is weak and easily flexible. So really, the plastic required less force and was able to bend at a higher angle, and the aluminum required more force and did not bend as much.

And here is where something that is easily flexible can harm a phone.

[url=http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/263/edgemn.jpg]Image[/URL]

Imagine this phone is falling to the floor and lands on this top right corner. The two lines indicate how much the frame bends inward at the point of impact. So before going on, which line would put more stress on the glass? The one that bends inward more, or the one that bends inward less? I would love to hear your answer on this specific question when you undoubtedly respond with more half-thought arguments.

Now, as has been discussed, the plastic in the GS4 bends ridiculously easy. If you don't believe me, take the plastic back off a GS3 and just feel how weak and flexible it is. Multiple reports indicate they are using the same "quality" of plastic.

So judging from that, we can tell that plastic will require much less force in order to deform. And aluminum would require more force in order to deform at the same magnitude of something that is plastic.

So the black line indicates how much an aluminum frame would deform on impact, and the red line indicates how much a plastic frame would deform on impact with the same amount of force, and a phone of the same weight and size.

It is simple, which deformation, the one indicated by the black line or the one indicated by the red line, will cause more stress on the front glass?


See above.

You sir are the one that can not read. I never said that you said the iPhone 5 won't bend now did I? Your agenda to belittle people is getting old.

I was talking about stresses on the glass. Not that one phone or another will or will not bend. You said a stiff design what better did you not? I was showing a picture of a phone severely bending yet the screen was not broken.

Do you have any sources that the GS3 will bend easier then the iPhone 5? You want sources but never supply your own.

If it did like you claim what would be the result of the picture I posted? That iPhone is destroyed, if the GS3 did that it would flex back and be no/little damage. If you disagree show me a permanently bent GS3.

As far as your picture and question. It just depends on the drop. Assuming the entire front is glass then its will just be luck of the draw. The red line may disperse energy into the frame better then the black if it fell directly on the corner.

You just hear want you want to hear. Easily dismiss size, amount of glass, weight, etc. if someone has a valid point post are ignore or you start your post with an insult.
 

strausd

macrumors 68030
Jul 11, 2008
2,998
1
Texas
I was talking about stresses on the glass. Not that one phone or another will or will not bend. You said a stiff design what better did you not? I was showing a picture of a phone severely bending yet the screen was not broken.
Still doesn't address the image I posted.

Do you have any sources that the GS3 will bend easier then the iPhone 5? You want sources but never supply your own.
Look how easily it is bent in that picture from earlier. And now go find a slab of aluminum the same thickness and try and bend it. Plastic uses less force.

Not to mention I already provided sources where they said the iPhone 5 had far superior build quality because of the aluminum. Maybe go back and read that post.

If it did like you claim what would be the result of the picture I posted? That iPhone is destroyed, if the GS3 did that it would flex back and be no/little damage. If you disagree show me a permanently bent GS3.
You're the one making the claim. You provide evidence.

Plus I have already shown pictures of broken plastic on the GS4 which broke with little pressure.

And you and I both know any outcome can come out of any phone and any story could be find by simply searching. There are articles of every type of smartphones catching on fire, but you don't hear much of that. The reason? Because something like that isn't the norm. You can link to as many articles as you want of something like that, but that doesn't take away from the fact that that specific scenario is rare. This is also the case for that bent iPhone. But this isn't the case for thin plastic. It is a fact, thin plastic bends easily. Another fact, the iPhone 5 has far superior build quality.

As far as your picture and question. It just depends on the drop. Assuming the entire front is glass then its will just be luck of the draw. The red line may disperse energy into the frame better then the black if it fell directly on the corner.
You need a reading lesson. I specifically said with the same weight and size along with the same thickness of materials and dropped from the same height.

You just hear want you want to hear. Easily dismiss size, amount of glass, weight, etc. if someone has a valid point post are ignore or you start your post with an insult.
The word hypocritical comes to mind (note I am not calling you personally a hypocrite, just this statement, so don't get those two things mixed up). If you want to talk about someone only hearing what they want to hear, maybe you should realize you are the one ignoring all the evidence and logical reasoning I have been giving you.
 

daveathall

macrumors 68020
Aug 6, 2010
2,379
1,410
North Yorkshire
Look how easily it is bent in that picture from earlier. And now go find a slab of aluminum the same thickness and try and bend it. Plastic uses less force.

Hardly a slab. Thin sheet of aluminium would be a better description.

From the above you are implying that the thickness of the aluminium on the iPhone is the same as the plastic on the SGS3, if that is not what you are implying then why are you not comparing like for like? Can you provide a link to the thickness of the aluminium on an iPhone to substantiate your argument?

Lets just (for argument sake) agree that they are the same thickness, are you saying that you could not easily bend the aluminium? I would find it incredible if you could not.

Lets also assume that one can bend a sheet of thin aluminium, IMO the structural integrity of the aluminium, once bent would be compromised, there would be a crease where it failed, the plastic on the other hand would be able to withstand being bent and reform to its original shape to a greater degree (IMO).

All the illustrations you give are with the back cover removed from the S3, why have you not given the same as regards to the iPhone 5? Do you not agree that if you are comparing like for like, then the comparison tests should be the same?

If you think that a person dropping phones from different heights and calling it a "drop test" is a valid testing method then you a sadly mistaken. The only way to test the structural durability of the two would be to remove the items in question from the phones and then conduct controlled experiments.

I agree with the above posters when they post that you only respond to what you want to, and try and belittle those that disagree with you.
 
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Dave.UK

macrumors 65816
Sep 24, 2012
1,290
482
Kent, UK
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cynics

macrumors G4
Jan 8, 2012
11,959
2,156
1. Still doesn't address the image I posted.


2. Look how easily it is bent in that picture from earlier. And now go find a slab of aluminum the same thickness and try and bend it. Plastic uses less force.

3. Not to mention I already provided sources where they said the iPhone 5 had far superior build quality because of the aluminum. Maybe go back and read that post.


4. You're the one making the claim. You provide evidence.

5. Plus I have already shown pictures of broken plastic on the GS4 which broke with little pressure.

6. And you and I both know any outcome can come out of any phone and any story could be find by simply searching. There are articles of every type of smartphones catching on fire, but you don't hear much of that. The reason? Because something like that isn't the norm. You can link to as many articles as you want of something like that, but that doesn't take away from the fact that that specific scenario is rare. This is also the case for that bent iPhone. But this isn't the case for thin plastic. It is a fact, thin plastic bends easily. Another fact, the iPhone 5 has far superior build quality.


7. You need a reading lesson. I specifically said with the same weight and size along with the same thickness of materials and dropped from the same height.


8. The word hypocritical comes to mind (note I am not calling you personally a hypocrite, just this statement, so don't get those two things mixed up). If you want to talk about someone only hearing what they want to hear, maybe you should realize you are the one ignoring all the evidence and logical reasoning I have been giving you.

Lets start over. Every time I reply I'm always distracted doing other things. I'll just number each paragraph in my reply because I'm in tapatalk and quoting like you did is a pain in the butt.

1. The image of the flimsy battery cover? Or am I mistaken? I thought we were talking about the frames of the phones like you said. The iPhone doesn't have a battery cover to compare too. I see some little scratches in the other pic but nothing you don't see on any phone regardless of material.

2. I agree, typically plastic does use less force to bend. It also typically flexes back. I have dings on the hood and roof of my car and none on the spoilers or bumpers. Guess which are aluminum and which are plastic. Plus I'd hardly consider anything about the iPhone a "slab" of aluminum. It's back weighs just a bit more then an empty soda can according to ifixit.com.

3. I missed that post, I skimmed the thread really quickly but didn't find it. I may have just over looked it. Can you give me a post #?

4. Provide evidence that iPhone pictured is destroyed or provide evidence of a bent GS3 that I said is impossible to find? How would I do that? That was obviously my point.

5. Again are we talking about the back cover? How can I compare that to aluminum on the iPhone? What does that have to do with the frame/housing? The small sratches/dings that require magnification to see?

6. I agree that articles can be found for anything. And like I said plastic does bend easier (typically). But which phone currently had a problem with bending?

7. No where in that portion you quoted did I mention size or weight yet I'm the one that needs reading lessons. That was a response to your picture. And it's pointless at that. That design in red could be more structurally sound because it won't focus energy into a small area. Dropping glass on its corner can be worse then dropping it on longer flatter edge.

8. Again lets start over? What evidence am I ignoring. If its something obvious just repost it, if you have a good solid point I won't dispute that. However other people are saying the same thing I am. And you keep telling people (not just me) to learn to read. There comes a time when you have to ask yourself if its everyone else or just you.

Plus I don't have a problem with the iPhone 5. The 5S will probably replace my 4S. I'm not saying plastic is superior it just has its advantages, its not all cons.
 

strausd

macrumors 68030
Jul 11, 2008
2,998
1
Texas
Lets start over. Every time I reply I'm always distracted doing other things. I'll just number each paragraph in my reply because I'm in tapatalk and quoting like you did is a pain in the butt.

1. The flimsy plastic battery cover is of the same flimsy plastic used in the frame.

2. Focus on where you said plastic bends with less force. Now apply that simple idea to my previously posted picture showing how that puts more pressure on glass during a fall.

3. 128. And by the way, there are tons of other reviews online saying the same thing.

4. Go buy one of each and test ;)

5. You can compare because you already said plastic requires less force to be deformed.

6. I could say the GS3 currently has a problem with catching on fire... Anyone can pick bad ones out of the batch, and that is exactly what you are doing.

7. But by deforming the frame that much, it would clearly put more stress on the glass.

8. #3. Although you may not be ignoring it as you said you skimmed it. Plus as I mentioned in number 3, many credible online reviews say the same thing, that the iPhone 5 has superior build quality compared to the plastic GS3. So it looks as though everyone is really saying the same thing as me...
 

hyteckit

Guest
Jul 29, 2007
889
1
This thread has convinced me about the awesomeness of plastic.

Going to replace the following with the plastic..

1. Glass cups => plastic cups
2. Fine China => plastic plate
3. Silverware => plastic forks, spoons, and knifes
4. Rolex watch => plastic casio watch with lots of functions
5. Bike => plastic bike
6. Tennis Racket => plastic racket
7. Jewelry (bling bling) => plastic jewelry with no bling
 
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